| Author |
Message |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Advanced Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 3020
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 1:38 pm: | |
Matt, you're correct. I have even noticed a slight increase in oil temp. when I have used a higher viscosity oil when I couldn't find the correct one for my car. Another reason why it's so important to use the grade and viscosity fluids as recommended by the manufacturer. |
Matt Morgan (Kermit)
Junior Member
Username: Kermit
Post Number: 158
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 10:19 am: | |
One of the things I've learned in a study of lubricity is the effectof viscosity seldom discussed. As the gear train turns (all gears) the oil clinging to the gears is natureally forced out from between the teeth as it rotates. The higher the viscosity index, the more force it takes to "squirt" it out. At high RPM's this can have a considerable force in actually pushing the gears apart. Bear in mind that the faster the gears turn, the harder it is to accomplish this. Much like the differance in a shallow dive, the water isn't very hard. But from a higher diveing position, it can actually break bones. Food for thought. Parasitic loss? You bet! |
Ron (Easy_rider)
Member
Username: Easy_rider
Post Number: 764
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 3:29 pm: | |
Frank, you're right, I ordered the Sint 2000 blend based on the recommendation mentioned below. The cost was $116 for a case of 20 including shipping. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Advanced Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 3011
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 2:06 pm: | |
Ron, AGIP makes a 5w40 full synthetic and a 10w40 synthetic/Dino blend. |
Ali Haas (Aehaas)
Junior Member
Username: Aehaas
Post Number: 111
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 1:12 pm: | |
After I complained to Ferrari of Central Florida they finally gave me a recommendation for better shifting in my 575 M. They said to use the Agip SXA 75W-90. Lamborghini of Orlando, Ultimate, was kind enough to save me some time and gave me the number of the importer for Agip. I got a bunch of information.
The SXA is a non-slip version of gear oil. The Murcielago uses the LSX that has the anti-friction additive. Both are fully synthetic. This explains why people are satisfied with the Redline 75W-90 NS (non-slip) in their Ferraris.
Specs for both the SXA and LSX are as follows...
Viscosity - - 15.6 at 100 C, 117 at 40 C
Flash point - - 204 C
Pour point - - (- 40 C)
API GL-5, MT-1, PG-2
The importer is American Agip. 800-922-9243. Ask for Carl Sisler in technical. They have all the Agip products, motor oils et cetera. The LSX comes in a case of 12 1 liter jars for $80.36. The SXA only comes in a 5 gal. jug for $107.70.
They of course have all the various motor oils from fully synthetic to dino versions. Ask them to fax you a price list.
aehaas |
Ron (Easy_rider)
Member
Username: Easy_rider
Post Number: 763
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 12:59 pm: | |
Frank I don't mean to step on Ken's answer, but they have both. The service manager at Steve Harris Imports told me to use the synthetic 10-40.
Here is their web site and phone number http://www.americanagip.com/ 724-352-4451. They will sell you a case and ship it to you UPS. I just ordered a case. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Advanced Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 3010
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 12:47 pm: | |
Ken, is the Agip 10w40 synthetic or Dino oil ? |
Ken Ross (Kdross)
Member
Username: Kdross
Post Number: 462
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 12:35 pm: | |
Frank:
Agip makes a 10W-40 weight oil. Agip was the recommended oil for Ferrari (and Lambo & Maserati) up until Shell gave them a boat of money to be a sponsor. Call your local Ferrari dealer or Agip of NA and ask for several cases of 10W-40 SINT (or SYNT - same stuff but SINT is made in Italy and SYNT is made in Pittsburg). I live about 10 minutes from Agip's NJ plant and buy several cases over the counter. Cost is about $100 for 20 liters.
Ken |
Ali Haas (Aehaas)
Junior Member
Username: Aehaas
Post Number: 110
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 8:42 am: | |
DGS,
In the old days that was true but now oil additives last much longer allowing intervals of 10,000 miles with non-synthetic lubricants.
It is not more additives but better, longer lasting ones and still cleaner oils with less ash and by products. I personally have no objection to using dino oils.
In fact I use regular, non-synthetic Penzoil 5W-20 in my Expedition, MB 600 SEL and MB 600 SL now. I go 3 to 5,000 between changes but could go longer as the oils are spotless going in and almost so coming out.
As a side note, all the motor oils I have seen that were originally rated as SJ were more clear than the ones now rated SL. Apparently the newer additives are simply darker in color. This is also true for Mobil 1. The SL 0W-30 is darker than the previous, almost perfectly clear SJ rated 0W-30 of 2 years ago.
aehaas |
DGS (Dgs)
Member
Username: Dgs
Post Number: 339
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 1:19 am: | |
"Always use the lowest first number. There is never any reason to use a higher number, never."
I'm going to have to disagree on this one. Multi-grade oils use a base oil at the lower number, and use long polymer chains which "uncoil" to increase the functional viscosity at temperature.
When a long polymer chain breaks, it become ionized, and will bond to anything ... such as your engine parts.
Wide range multi-grade oils are more prone to leaving engine deposits.
Okay, so I know that Syntec 5W-50 includes tons of additives to try to clean up after itself, but I still think it's better to use the narrowest range of multi-grade oil that meets your needs.
|
jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Member
Username: Atheyg
Post Number: 479
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 6:12 pm: | |
Good to know, I still don't know if I'd use them, synthetic lasts longer but in a Ferrari I change my oil less than 3k miles
I was concerned about full synthetics causing leaks a few years ago when I had my 911 , it was running hot here in the desert and I wanted the protection of a synthetic and tried semi synthetics Castrol and Valvoline sure enough a year later I developed a few good leaks |
Ali Haas (Aehaas)
Junior Member
Username: Aehaas
Post Number: 109
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 5:20 pm: | |
0w-40, 5w-40, 10w-40 and 15w-40 all act as a 40 weight oil at operating temperature. The lower the first number the less thick when the engine is cold - by definition, 104 degrees F.
Always use the lowest first number. There is never any reason to use a higher number, never.
I would try the 0w-40 mobil 1 if you need 40 weight oil when hot. The real question is what temperature do you usually run at. I run my 575 Maranello at an oil temp of 180 F around town. 0w-20 is best for this range. On the track a 40 weight oil is better.
aehaas |
dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1875
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 5:16 pm: | |
I've switched at least 5 or 6 vehicles from dino oil to synthetic, never had a leak problem...accept for pre-existing ones... |
Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member
Username: 4re_gt4
Post Number: 1689
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 5:10 pm: | |
Dream Car Garage on SpeedChannel claim that synthetic oils contain "stop leak" or "seal sweller" type compounds specifically to address this issue. My old 75 GT4 doesn't leak with Mobil 1 EXCEPT on the forward distributor. The previous/original owner said that this car has had that problem since new, so it's not a synthetic issue. |
Dave White (Dwhite)
Junior Member
Username: Dwhite
Post Number: 118
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 4:02 pm: | |
Mark try the synthetic. My car has 57K went to blend first maybe for 1500 miles, then synthetic, no leaks and uses less oil. 5-50 winter(castrol); 15-50 summer(moble 1). |
Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Intermediate Member
Username: Mcharness
Post Number: 1021
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 3:50 pm: | |
Jeff, that was supposedly a problem when synthetic oils originally came out years ago, but the newer formulations are not supposed to cause any seal problems or increase oil leakage. That being said, I still use dino oil in my 308QV, changing it every 2500-3000 miles.
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Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Advanced Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 3008
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 2:37 pm: | |
Jeff, I have Redline 20x50 synthetic in it now with no leaks. But, when I change it I want to go with the 10x40 as called for in the manual and Redline doesn't make that spec. |
jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Member
Username: Atheyg
Post Number: 477
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 2:14 pm: | |
If you've ran Dino oil in your Boxer I would not put in synthetic as you will develop leaks, synthetic is very slippery and gets everywhere and reacts to the old seals
If the engine has had fresh seals you can put synthetic in it, later engines designed to run on synthetics have different seal setups so they don't have this problem |
dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1872
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 2:13 pm: | |
Best person to contact is Ali Haas on this subject. But, I don't think you would be hurting anything to use a 5w-40, which is much more common, as it is the typical weight spec'd for many newer German cars. You can get it in Mobil 1, Castrol Syntec, BMW (made by Castrol) and Shell Helix, and Shell Rotella T synthetic. I am using the Shell Rotella T synthetic, even though the 328 motor is spec'd for 10-50 or 10-40 forget which.... |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Advanced Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 3006
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 2:02 pm: | |
My Boxer calls for 10w40 motor oil. The only synthetics I have found with that spec is Royal Purple and Amsoil. Which would you chose and why ? Also, it's time for a coolant flush and replacement. I have always used Prestone but am open to any better product out there. Any suggestions ? |