| Author |
Message |
Philip Vecchiarelli (Philvecc)
New member
Username: Philvecc
Post Number: 7
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 12:25 pm: | |
I'm getting close to a 30k on my '89 Testarossa and was wondering if anyone has come across a Part Number listing for the standard items needed.
Or is a "kit" available? |
Dino Micalizio (Ingenere)
Junior Member
Username: Ingenere
Post Number: 80
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, October 19, 2003 - 6:39 pm: | |
I had a TR major done at Scottsdale Ferrari...everything for $5300. Within 100 miles the throttle cable was fed incorrectly and broke, water hoses inside the intake plenum were neglected and leaked and finally the H20 pump (that they billed me for the rebuild)...failed.
When I brought the car back they told me that they were going to take care of me.....when my car was completely apart they wanted an additional $8K to fix their mistake.....Stay away from Scottsdale Ferrari! |
Darryl - TR&328 (Tr328)
Junior Member
Username: Tr328
Post Number: 127
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 19, 2003 - 11:26 am: | |
I had a major service done, the transmission rebuilt with new syncros and 2nd and 4th gear, plus repaint front spoiler for a total of $17,005. ooch! Only have 41K miles on the car. |
William Moss (Moss)
New member
Username: Moss
Post Number: 27
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 18, 2003 - 9:36 pm: | |
I had my ferrari tr done in 2001 by this particular dealer shown on the invoice. The cost was 5,500.00 for major service. Looking at the cost of parts I noticed they have doubled in three years. BTW, I have a brand new factory set of plug wires in the package for sale at 400.00. As you can see they are 1,200.00 new. If anyone is interested Email me. [email protected] |
Phil Hughes (Ferrarifixer)
Junior Member
Username: Ferrarifixer
Post Number: 243
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 18, 2003 - 7:31 pm: | |
BB's need the sodium valves replaced for the same reasons as 308's.
I personally have repaired 2 BB's after valve failure, and only 1 TR for belt/tensioner failure.....in 16 years of full time Ferrari maintenance, so yes, you're right. The scare tactics are just that. |
James Selevan (Jselevan)
Member
Username: Jselevan
Post Number: 763
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, October 18, 2003 - 4:20 pm: | |
Phil - my cynical approach to doctors and Ferrari mechanics would lead me to suspect that most valve jobs in Boxers are unnecessary. I agree that valve guides are an unlikely culprit. My own experience, anecdotal as it is, taught me that low compression can be reversed with a "Polish Tune-up" comprised of a major service, correct fuel tuning, and driving the car. I am sure that if I had gone to another mechanic (names not mentioned) that I would have had a top-end job during my engine out service. The gentleman who did the service advised against the valve job despite the low compression. His experience was that once tuned, the valve crud would slowly dissipate and compression would return. He was correct.
As far as "...most valve jobs in Boxers ..." result from broken belts or mechanic error, I will ask that all those that have suffered a broken belt in a Boxer, please step forward. While feared greatly, actual occurrence is rare.
My experience.
Jim S. |
Phil Hughes (Ferrarifixer)
Junior Member
Username: Ferrarifixer
Post Number: 241
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 18, 2003 - 1:14 am: | |
Most likely reason for heads off/valve guide repairs etc is one of the cambelts either breaking or jumping a few teeth...or, the valves got bent as part of the belt replacement procedure by poor technical skills. It's easily done on the 12's as the valves are close to pistons especially if re-installing camshafts after they may have been removed for seals or shims to be replaced.
There's no way in the world the guides would be worn at that mileage, and there has been no recalls or repair instructions from Ferrari about 512 guides etc. |
James Selevan (Jselevan)
Member
Username: Jselevan
Post Number: 759
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 11:41 pm: | |
Jim A. - No, this is not typical. There are likely two explanations. First, the fuel system was running rich and the valves became laden with carbon deposits. This will impact compression. One could complete major, tune properly, and take the car for a long drive. This will clean the valves and solve the problem.
Second, there was a mechanical failure of valve of guide (many possibilities).
My Boxer had horrific looking valves and poor compression when I did the major. The wrench suggested not doing the valves as it was obvious that the fuel system was not operating properly. He suggested tuning properly and driving the car. This is exactly what I did, and the compression is now normal.
Engines on the TR and the Boxer are quite robust. One must try hard to break them.
Jim S. |
Jim Avery (Boxer12)
Member
Username: Boxer12
Post Number: 403
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 7:31 pm: | |
Why would that car need the valve work at 16K? Is this typical for the 512? |
James Selevan (Jselevan)
Member
Username: Jselevan
Post Number: 757
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 6:34 pm: | |
Steve B - changing sparkplug wires is recommended if insulation appears dry (cracked) or if the resistance is not consistent. On both my Boxer and Testarossa major I replaced the sparkplug wires. Not only that, I replaced the rubber boots (sparkplug) and the plastic extenders. All of these resulted in 12 different Ohm measurements, and thus required renewing. Finally, the appearance of the sparkplug wire can be tricky. If one studies the distributer cap, and removes the wires from the cap (clamped in by screw), one will find that after time, the wire deteriorates some length into the insulation, and at the least, must be cut back to insure a proper contact.
Jim S. |
Steve B (Sjb509)
New member
Username: Sjb509
Post Number: 29
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 5:21 pm: | |
Is it normal to replace the head gaskets during a major service, or was that due to the valve work? As I mentioned in my original email, $500+ for two head gaskets seems more than a little steep. If they were not leaking and didn't need to be removed for the valve work, why would you change them? (There are over $1100 just in gaskets for the valve job if you count the head gaskets).
One thing I didn't see, however, were valve shims, does anyone know what the cost for 48 shims? I've read other places (I think it was for V-8's) that a part of the major is for "valve shim surface to be fresh". Also taking into the consideration the debate over flipping over old shims, this would mean 48 new shims.
Are replacing the plug wires normal procedure for a 30k service? $1200 for an item that most likely won't change the performance of the car (and wouldn't cause other damage if it failed anyway) seems excessive.
I don't post that often on this site, but I saw this itemized list and thought it was very interesting. I'm not currently looking for and F-car, but want to do as much research as possible to understand what the ownership experience will be like beforehand. Performing required maintenance would not scare me, but $13k/30k miles definitely would.
If you take out the $6k for parts for the cats, valve job, and plug wires, along with $5k worth of labor doing it yourself, you're left with about $3000 in parts for the major service. Jeff Green's home major looked to be in that ballpark as well for parts. |
Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Intermediate Member
Username: Mitch_alsup
Post Number: 1219
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 2:15 pm: | |
This car had a top end rebuild performed and rebuilt cat converters at $6000. The rest of the major seems to be in line with expectations. |
James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member
Username: Napolis
Post Number: 2831
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 2:12 pm: | |
Wait a minute Spanky.
" 13K is not out of line either esp. if you go through it line by line and compare apples to apples" |
spanky mcdoogle (Spanky)
New member
Username: Spanky
Post Number: 2
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 2:10 pm: | |
For a bunch of intelligent people, OMG...Read the bill!
1) It's not from a dealer
2) It's not just a major service
3) There's at least $2500 in valve guide work listed...Not part of a major service.
4) Replace converters...another $2700, or so.
5) Roof repair, yet another $175
Do the math...the actual service cost about $7500, from an independent shop. |
Bruce Wellington (Bws88tr)
Advanced Member
Username: Bws88tr
Post Number: 3352
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 1:26 pm: | |
I AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT, FRANK...13K IS FAR GONE...THE DEALER IS ON CRACK........... |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Advanced Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 3090
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 1:17 pm: | |
While my fee rates have gone up some in the last five years, not by 48% as indicated by the $13k service cost posted herein. |
spanky mcdoogle (Spanky)
New member
Username: Spanky
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 11:55 am: | |
Bruce,
Frank's rates haven't gone up either in five years. Yeah, right!
Best,
Spanky |
Bruce Wellington (Bws88tr)
Advanced Member
Username: Bws88tr
Post Number: 3349
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 11:19 am: | |
FRANK
AS JAMES STATED THAT WAS THEN...5 YEARS AGO, THE GW BRIDGE WAS 3.50 TO CROSS OVER TO NYC, NOW ITS 6.00
C'MON MAN, ARE YOU A MEMBER OF MENSA?? |
James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member
Username: Napolis
Post Number: 2824
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 11:13 am: | |
Frank
What does 5 years ago have to do with today?
Bruce's car is very clean and well maintained and the WWOC price of 7500 is quite fair esp. as I know they do a great job and stand behind their work.
13K is not out of line either esp. if you go through it line by line and compare apples to apples,
Once again these are expensive cars to maintain properly.
If maintained properly they are also great cars. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Advanced Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 3087
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 11:01 am: | |
The 30k service on my 1986 TR about 5 years ago with everything done including a new clutch slave cylinder and having the engine repainted was only $5500 . |
Bruce Wellington (Bws88tr)
Advanced Member
Username: Bws88tr
Post Number: 3345
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 10:15 am: | |
STEVE
MY 30K MAJOR, ON MY 88.5 TR, EVERYTHING DONE, EVEN WITH A NEW WATER PUMP, NEW CLUTCH, AND LABOR WAS $7500.00 TOTAL INCLUDING LABOR...DONE AT WWOC, PERFECTLY....VERY SATISFIED
BRUCE |
Steve B (Sjb509)
New member
Username: Sjb509
Post Number: 28
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 9:27 am: | |
I found this on Michael Sheehan's website. For all potential owners of a TR, this bill sheet gives an itemized list of parts and labor for a major service, as well as replacing valve seals & guides, as well as cats. I'd always wondered what entailed a $13k service, I guess now I know. The interesting thing about this list is that nothing (aside from head gaskets,plug wires, and spark plugs) seem exhorbitantly priced for any individual item, it's just that there are so many items on the list it quickly adds up to $8k in parts.
http://www.ferraris-online.com/cars/FE-512M-100094/FAIDoc.pdf
One more interesting thing. This yellow 512M, along with the other one currently on Ebay, means HALF of the yellow 512M's in the country are for sale! |