| Author | Message | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
Member Username: Mojo Post Number: 341 Registered: 9-2002 |
After reading Dennis post, I would get the ZO6, Bang for the buck  | ||
| Dennis (Bighead)
Member Username: Bighead Post Number: 257 Registered: 2-2003 |
For those that may care: Which car will the casual observer mistake to be yet another common generic yuppie mobile? :-) vty, --Dennis (owner of two such similar yuppiemobiles, as well as a couple of sports cars that really can't be mistaken for anything else) | ||
| Robert Faber (F129b)
Junior Member Username: F129b Post Number: 75 Registered: 8-2003 |
Which car has a trunk that you can actually put stuff in? (M3) Which car has a backseat that two people can actually sit in? (M3) Which car has a sequential transmission? (M3) Which car would I like to park next to my 355 and drive to work on Monday? (M3 SMG!!) | ||
| Daniel B Reese MD (Dbr328gtb)
Junior Member Username: Dbr328gtb Post Number: 203 Registered: 5-2001 |
Thanks everyone. Dennis, excellent comparison! I'll have to think about it, but I kind of find it hard to justify the extra $30-35K for a car that performs similarly yet is less practical. Dan | ||
| stu cordova (Balataboy)
Member Username: Balataboy Post Number: 520 Registered: 4-2001 |
http://p-car.com/reviews/993vse46m3/ | ||
| Dennis (Bighead)
Member Username: Bighead Post Number: 256 Registered: 2-2003 |
I am a huge Bimmer and Porsche enthusiast (as well as Ferrari, natch). I currently have two BMWs... and a 911 (996). I thought long and hard about this very decision last year. I had to choose between a new M3 or a slightly used 996 (as well as a Corvette Z06 and a couple of other things, but those were dismissed relatively quickly) as a present for my wife, for her to drive on the track and to use as a quasi-daily driver. The BMW is probably a better car to use day-to-day. It is more practical, has better build quality, uses better materials in the interior (although Porsche has improved it greatly over the last couple of years), and has more features. If I was limited to only one car in life, it'd probably be an M3 (or M5). The Porsche is more fun to drive. It is much lighter (by at least 300 lbs. over a similarly equipped M3), and the handling is better tuned for enthusiastic driving. The M3 has massive understeer -- curable, but requires effort, and you can't really do much about the weight. On the plus side, it is rated at 13-35 more horsepower. And the M3 offers the SMG-II transmission, which is WAY cool and allows left-foot braking on the track, which must be good for a second here and there. BMW dealers typically try harder (more repercussions if they get a crappy customer survey response), and there are more of them around. Of course, your local Porsche or BMW dealer can be a standout. At the end of the day, I bought my wife a speed yellow 1999 996 w/15k miles, euro M030 suspension, 18" wheels, new Michelin Pilot Sport tires, GHL exhaust, armourfend, sport seats and a short-shifter for thousands less than what an M3 would have cost me. She LOVES it, and it is probably faster than an M3 around most tracks. And as others have put it, the Porsche looks and feels like a semi-exotic high-end sports car, while the M3 looks and feels like a refined sports sedan. As to performance differences, to the extent one means quantifiable measurements of performance, The BMW might be close or even slightly head by some measures. But the ways the cars handle, the way they feel from behind the wheel, can be considerably different. If all we are doing is looking at stopwatch or yardstick measurements of a car's performance **under normal street driving conditions**, there would be no difference between a 996, M3, Corvette, Viper, Boxster S, Mustang Cobra, and any number of other cars. But the sensations the driver has can be radically different; e.g., Viper v. Audi RS4. Let's turn and take a look at the objective stats: BMW M3: Test weight 3595 lbs. Top Speed 155 mph / 249.4 kph 0 - 60 mph 4.7 seconds 0 - 1/4 Mile 13.3 @ 106.8 mph Lateral Acceleration 0.91g Corvette Z06: Test weight 3270 lbs. Top Speed 171.0 mph / 275.2 kph 0 - 60 mph 3.9 seconds 0 - 1/4 Mile 12.4 seconds @ 116 mph Lateral Acceleration 1.00g Porsche 911: Test weight 3345 lbs. Top Speed 174.0 mph / 280.0 kph 0 - 60 mph 4.6 seconds 0 - 1/4 Mile 13.2 @ 109 mph Lateral Acceleration 0.91g Dodge Viper GTS: Test weight 3447 lbs. Top speed 180 mph 0-60 mph 4.0sec 0 - 1/4 mile 12.3 sec @ 115 mph Lateral Acceleration 0.97g Let's see. Which one is the heaviest? M3(!!). Which has the slowest top speed? M3 (governed, but still). Slowest to 60 mph? M3. Slowest through the quarter mile? M3. Least lateral acceleration? M3, tied with the 911. Worst power/weight ratio? M3 too. So, on paper, the M3 comes in last. What about subjective feel? Well, at least against the Corvette, the M3 again finishes below it. See <http://www.roadandtrack.com/features/articledisplay.asp?articleid=220> for an exhaustive study on "handling" of various sports cars. (Alas, a normally aspirated 911 was not included, nor was a GTS.) Here's what I've heard, from actual drivers of these actual cars at actual track events (wholly unscientific). Z06: great car, great bang for the buck, need to add an oil cooler and better brakes for the track, but cheap to do. GTS: Incredible car, tough to drive well, wholly impractical, needs ABS, but will rock on the track. M3: heavy, understeers, early cars had engines that grenaded on the track, heavy, understeers, fun to drive, SMG-II is great on the track if less so around town, heavy and understeers. 911 (my wife's track car): easy to drive, less adventurous than previous iterations of the 911, should add third radiator kit, don't drive it on slicks around oval turns without the sump kit, best brakes in the world. FWIW, I don't think my 355 would fair very well against the Z06 or the Viper either. My $0.02. :-D Oh, and Dan, if you do go for the 911, you can get any normally aspirated 911 (aside from the GT3) with the additional horsepower; just tick off the X51 option package. The 40th anniversary edition is just a "Value-Priced" package of some nice options. If you really want the best bang for the buck, get a GT3. But that ain't really a good daily driver.... vty, --Dennis | ||
| Noelrp (Noelrp)
Member Username: Noelrp Post Number: 336 Registered: 8-2001 |
I'll take the M3. The 911 is a sports car but not enough. It'll keep you wanting for more thus most owners change just about everything to make it feel like a real sports car. And if you already have a Ferrari why get another 2 seater? I like the M3 for its versatility. It's fast(can keep up with the 911) & has room for 5. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1498 Registered: 1-2002 |
Daniel: I've driven both. A e46 m3 and a 996. Anyway, with brevity, here's the lowdown: the m3 is a luxury coupe masquerading as a sports car, the porsche IS a sports car. Hope that's clear... Regards, hubert. | ||
| Robert Faber (F129b)
Junior Member Username: F129b Post Number: 69 Registered: 8-2003 |
I just drove my friend's 360 F1 again today and it reminded me how much better I like the SMG tranny than the Ferrari F1. Seriously! | ||
| 911 Fan (911fan)
Junior Member Username: 911fan Post Number: 62 Registered: 5-2003 |
The 911 is a classic which every enthusiast should own and enjoy at least once in his/her driving career. The 40'th anniversary edition would be a nice way to experience this legend (a little more HP, a little more value at resale). I'd go for a 6-speed 911 coupe - but, of course, I'm biased! | ||
| Daniel B Reese MD (Dbr328gtb)
Junior Member Username: Dbr328gtb Post Number: 202 Registered: 5-2001 |
Thanks guys. Sounds as if the performance of the M3 is at least as good and may be more interesting to drive. I love my 6 speed and fear it will soon be no longer available- might keep it forever! Anybody else think the 911 would be a better move? I really would only go for a Carrera 2. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Advanced Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 2938 Registered: 1-2002 |
The M3 is the sleeper of the 2. And it is much quicker & faster. The Porsche feels more stable at very high speeds (120+), IMO. The M3 is the much better value, but the Porsche motor does not have the habit of grenading... The Porsche has the better brakes, which would only really be evident on track. | ||
| LC (150shot)
Junior Member Username: 150shot Post Number: 52 Registered: 6-2003 |
The 911 will seperate you a bit from the crowd. I love the M3 too, but looks just like a normal 3series which are everywhere, and only car buffs can tell the difference. At least a Carrera 4 or S for me to go for rather than an M3. | ||
| Robert Faber (F129b)
Junior Member Username: F129b Post Number: 66 Registered: 8-2003 |
I like the M3 (SMG) better. Have driven both and I agree wholeheartedly that it has more soul than a 996. Now, the C4s's I do find interesting. 993 or 996 versions, but... I love the SMG, it feels better in my hands than the Ferrari F1's. Good for you to have one, keep it, enjoy it in good health. | ||
| Daniel B Reese MD (Dbr328gtb)
Junior Member Username: Dbr328gtb Post Number: 201 Registered: 5-2001 |
I love my M3. It has got soul almost to match Ferrari. I am getting itchy though. Would there be any benefit in trading her on a 911 and why? The 911 is alot more $ and I am not sure there would be much benefit in doing this. I am thinking of the 40th ann edition with 20 more horsepower. Thanks! |