| Author | Message | ||
| N'din (Abangdin)
New member Username: Abangdin Post Number: 13 Registered: 7-2003 |
Testing ban means no one is allowed to test anywhere. No Ferraris in Fiorano. The problems that Michael has been having is mainly due to his tyres. The Bridgestones are not on par with the Michelins. Michael has to choose harder compound for the race and thereby compromised his grid position. Michelin had warned Ferrari at the beginning of the season that they have to be a t least 2 secs faster than last year if they are going to win, because Michelin has developed new compound and new design for 2003. At first we all thought Depasquer was just boasting but it has proven to be correct. Bridgestone has been struggling to keep up with Michelin and in the process pulled Michael and Ferrari down as well. | ||
| Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
Junior Member Username: Tuttebenne Post Number: 224 Registered: 3-2003 |
Andreas, Under the testing ban is Ferrari allowed to drive the wheels off a spare 2003-GA at Mugello or Fiorano? Or are they not allowed to run a car anywhere? | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1777 Registered: 10-2002 |
Agreed for the most part, but I still think the Williams is faster and the Mc Laren equally fast. Ferrari announced to improve the car dramatically for Monza and of course Bridgestone are doing their part. Problem is: Testing ban until Hungary, so none of the mods can actually be checked out. So in essence we'll go to Budapest with the same set of cars. Realistically there is only Monza for which they can really prepare. Once Monza is in the books travel will eat up most of the time to do anything really significant. Not a good outlook. | ||
| Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
Junior Member Username: Tuttebenne Post Number: 222 Registered: 3-2003 |
Michael is smart enough to know that driving for points was a good strategy for a while but it won't work for much longer if at all the remainder of this season. He has to drive each race now as if its the last race of the season. No head games, no BS strategies, just qualify strong and race hard. I'm starting to think the 2003-GA is a much better car than I thought a couple of months ago. Its Michael who is holding the car back. Rubens showed us that when he was the first car out and took pole. Its all up to Michael - he has a decision to make. | ||
| James Lee (Aventino)
Junior Member Username: Aventino Post Number: 52 Registered: 6-2003 |
Umm Hubert did we see the same Renaults. Every race I have watched so far this season they have been down on power. On the Ferraris, on the Maclarens, on the Williams. MS was about 7 kph faster on the straights in Qualifying but the Renaults were just as quick through the tighter centre section. He caught Trulli because of the Ferrari horsepower which is still among the best. He wasn't going to catch Coulthard too in the final laps so he could have set himself up for a pass on the straight immediately after the corner he went wide on. You summed it up when you said he passed at the first opportunity. He didn't need to and it seemed like a rare error. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 862 Registered: 11-2002 |
Andreas, I think you may be right, as the most worrying thing is that you can see it in the way MS is driving. He is not driving to win, he is trying to get as many points as possible, because he knows that he cannot win. Thus there main driver is already in dispair over the machine they have provided him, and thus is trying to do the best he can ... but his confidence is the equipment is gone. This probably explains the qualifying performances ... ie. you need to be real confident to find that extra time. If MS pulls this one off it will be close to a miracle ... lets just hope they bounce back ... Pete | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1707 Registered: 10-2002 |
Personally I think it is over.  I don't see how MS can clinch the title anymore. That sixth place on the Hockenheim grid spoke volumes for the lack of competitiveness. Montoya doesn't need to win all four races, just a few Mc Larens, Renaults or the other Williams in front of Michael will assure he won't get enough points anymore. I hope I'm wrong. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 859 Registered: 11-2002 |
Andy, I do not think it is in MS's nature to not try 100%, but I will admitt that he is being unbelieveably cautious, and ensuring he gets points. Like you, I agree they need to bag a win!, but I also remember myself getting pissed with MS in 97' and 98' with his race to win ALWAYS attitude and why not just settle for the WC and get points  Thus they poor guy cannot win In the end the Ferrari car sucks big time, and the Ferrari team have their head in the sand big time thinking they can keep on going in the same direction and keep on winning ... er, sorry guys but the minute you think you have it sussed in F1 (or any motor racing) a competitor finds something and thrashes you. This is what is happening to the Ferrari team ... they are stale, and the best thing that could come from this seasons (win the WC or not) is a shake up with the team. I do not necessarily mean we have to sack everybody and start again, I just mean that they need to get that clean sheet of paper out again and start with some laterial thoughts ... the same design process that created the F2002 (probably the best F1 Ferrari ever) ... ie. not being afraid to try new ideas, etc. Just wait until the new McLaren hits the track, that is one radical machine ... , even DC might win again - hahaha! Pete | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1195 Registered: 1-2002 |
Andy: i don't see how i could take offense to your comment. we agree. | ||
| Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
Junior Member Username: Tuttebenne Post Number: 218 Registered: 3-2003 |
Hubert, I don't mean to attack Michael because I am a MS/Ferrari fan through and through. My opinion is that he is at his best when on the attack - not in a defensive position (last year aside - there was NO competition; I don't call that being defensive) He is at his best on the attack and will do himself good to forget the incremental points strategy and just go for it. BMW doesn't break anymore (Except for the mirrors in Canada - yuk, yuk) and Renault is strong but not as strong as BMW or McLaren. Kimi is too erratic and David's agreession is gone. But BMW, McLaren and Renault pose six credible competitors who could spoil his bid for number six. There is too much at stake now - if he wants number six he will have to drive for it. If he chooses to run relatively slow qualifying laps, or if he chooses to sit back and try to gather 4 or 6 safe points, its over. Ferrari and he might not have another class-leading season left in them so he (and they) had better make the next four races count. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1194 Registered: 1-2002 |
Uhh, James, did we see the same race? The occasion that MS used to pass trulli was the 1st chance he'd gotten to get close enough... he wasn't gaining on the renaults on the straights; youre mistaken. | ||
| James Lee (Aventino)
Junior Member Username: Aventino Post Number: 51 Registered: 6-2003 |
Hubert, can you explain why going around the outside and getting way out on the marbles was such a good move in Germany when he had power over the Renault on the straights? I thought that was a crazy move and may have cost the left rear. Psk I'll have to go back and have a wee look at the Sauber days, I remember Mike Thackwell being quicker than the lot of them before he was dumped but he had more time in the car. As did MS at Benetton in comparison to his teammates who came and went. Driver comparisons are a bit of a dodgy business, I'd say Bellof was the best German driver of the last 25 years if we're only talking talent behind the wheel. But, if he were around today, he'd still be trying to fit in LeMans around his F1 drive. | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Intermediate Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 1251 Registered: 3-2002 |
Four races to go and this tight of a battle. I'm just gonna sit back and enjoy the ride. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1706 Registered: 10-2002 |
Jack, I know what you mean re cobwebs. I've been bashing MS myself, but if you look at it from a distance (and history will give us that eventually after his retirement), there is no comparison. Christopher Hilton wrote his biography depicting his first title in 94 and his years before that. Fascinating. And he stresses how MS was always unfaced by any competition. Senna was just another name to him. At least so he claimed, since Monza we know how he adored his idol. Senna played the same game. Hilton wrote his biography too, also a great read. Now Montoya plays the same fiddle, stressing, that MS is just another competitor. Of course Juan knows deep down in his heart that is not the case, but if you want to make it in this sport, you better show a brave face. One thing we have to remember for the final battle this year in Suzuka: Michael has been there five times before. He knows the drill and how to deal with it mentally. Kimi doesn't (and it shows), Montoya doesn't (and it hasn't shown so far, but he is capable of crashing just on his own so it is hard to tell). Keep your fingers crossed. | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Intermediate Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 1245 Registered: 3-2002 |
By the way, I went to F1-Live, registered, and after a few minutes browsing the forums I got a headache and retreated to the safety of FChat. PSk, I think calling them "teenagers" may be stretching things--more like 12 year-olds. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1192 Registered: 1-2002 |
It's always reassuring to piss at the top dog, but that guy's probably to stupid to realize that what he's feeling on his face isn't warm rain. Fact is MS is , and will be, regarded as one of the best, and not solely b/c of his record on paper; case in point, just this last race. After coming into the pits w/ a busted tire, and with two laps left, he didn't just coast into the pits, have a drink, and relax. He went out and set the fatstest 1st sector time of the day with only 1 lap left he was still pushing harder and harder; that's what makes him great. The people that attack him, couldn't hold a candle to his dedication... only perhaps by measure of their own incompetence. | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Intermediate Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 1243 Registered: 3-2002 |
I think I started to sell MS short because I allowed all the negative things that were being said about him to get into my cobwebbed head and cloud my already-suspect thinking! Having become a bit of a Prima Donna (Schumi, not me), I forgot that MS can be an extremely tough individual psychologically, which is the only place I think Mansell could have gotten to him. Maybe not, who knows. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1705 Registered: 10-2002 |
Speedwise I see Michael with Kimi and Alonso on one level. Experiencewise Michael is still light years ahead. But the future IMHO belongs to Kimi vs Alonso. I see both of them as future world champions. | ||
| ryan (Ferrari_kid)
New member Username: Ferrari_kid Post Number: 21 Registered: 7-2003 |
speaking of former and current great drivers, what about the future of F1? kimi has made statements that he is at the level of MS which i find quite interesting. not to take away from kimi, but i don't think he is at that level just yet. the current talent pool doesn't seem to be there, and since MK left i really haven't seen much of a challenge for MS. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1695 Registered: 10-2002 |
Although I agree with a lot that has been said here and although I was a huge Prost fan for many years, I think you guys are not giving MS enough credit where it is due. Remember he went to Benetton and formed a team around him (ok Briatore helped), that made an absolut midfield team into a double World Champion coming from absolutely nowhere. And to some degree he did just that (bringing his entourage with him) at Ferrari, which completely and utterly sucked. Prost and Senna picked top teams for their drives. That doesn't mean they weren't stellar pilots, but neither ever glued a team together like MS. Case in point: The Prost F1 team sucked just as bad. However it would have been interesting to see Senna at Ferrari, where he almost ended up for 94 and probably would have for 95. Now that would have been the ultimate. Jack, Mansell a threat to MS? Hell no! I was a big Mansell fan too, but he is not of that level at all. Got lucky to sit in the best car when he clinched the title. Finally as far as the German sportscar experience goes: Steve Matchett describes it best in his book when he mentions, what other reporters said before: That is where MS learned to nurture a car through long stints, which is what helped him coast to the finish line with a Benetton stuck in 4th gear. Imagine! | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Intermediate Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 1240 Registered: 3-2002 |
PSk--Have you been watching SpeedTV's replays of the '93 season? It's been a great refresher course for me, because I was starting to let my opinions of MS sour a bit, and I was actually allowing myself to believe that, had MS raced against "real" competition, he could have been out muscled or even psyched out by some of the tough old boys (Mansell, Senna, etc). Anyway, I've enjoyed re-watching how hard MS raced the veterans, unintimidated, and in a lesser car. Perhaps these kids over on F1-Live need to take a history lesson. Hmmmm...maybe I'll head over there and check it out. | ||
| sindo rodil (308qv_miami)
Junior Member Username: 308qv_miami Post Number: 79 Registered: 5-2003 |
No your not the only one.Like I read in another article, Senna always went to the team that was doing good at the time, not building up a team. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1829 Registered: 11-2002 |
Pete, >>Personally a more complete racing driver than Ayton Senna.<< I thought I was the only one who thought the same about Prost. I think the guy was a tops driver, but was not exactly someone who could glue the team together. I do agree with James in that Prost would have probably brought Ferrari to the front. Cheers | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 858 Registered: 11-2002 |
Actually what Prost said was that the way the company went about racing was ••••, and that the car they had was hopeless unless on a smooth track. Yes Prost was doing a great job, but he did not meld the team like MS ... but I have huge respect for Prost. Personally a more complete racing driver than Ayton Senna. As for RB beating MS, well I have seen only 2 races that I remember where he actually deserved to beat MS ... the second was Silverstone a couple of weeks ago. Great performance ... but MS is driving for the WC thus ensuring he gets points. Thus we are not going to see MS at his best for the rest of this season as he is too scared to pass and possibly break his car ... that is what the stupid points change has created. As for the Mercedes days ... yes he was quicker than all the rest. Frentzen was also fast but it took him something like 10 laps to get into the groove, ie. rythm, by then the race is lost ... and this is still what you see today. MS is no longer the brilliant driver he used to be, but alot of that is because he does not have to try anymore. He, like Senna, has his failings and he does get twitchy under pressure, and has been known to make unbelievable stupid mistakes (like Spa in '98) when he should have just bagged the points. I guess this is why we now see him cruising for points instead of racing. In the end Todt should be credited with bringing Ferrari back to a serious team (if they ever were, I think this is debateable ... too much pasta and red wine, and just plain too much emotion), but no other driver in the period that I have watched F1 (since the early 80's ... I was too little in the 70's to remember much) has been so supportive of his team members and been thought so highly of by the mechanics. Both Prost and Senna, and especially Mansell, were premadonna's in the pits and I espect (but could be wrong) treated the engineers and mechanics as some sort of second rate citizen. But yes you are right Prost nearly did it ... but Ferrari had Barnard designing the chassis in England and the Italians making the engine and gearbox in Italy ... hardly a successful formula, infact absolutely rediculous. Also remember after Prost they stuck their heads in the pasta and went through one of the leanest periods they have ever seen ... with Alesi and Berger (both second rate drivers, or though Alesi ocassionally was brilliant) Pete | ||
| James Lee (Aventino)
New member Username: Aventino Post Number: 50 Registered: 6-2003 |
I hope I can throw in something here even though it isn't totally one-eyed. Let's not forget that Prost said Ferrari was sh*t back in the early 90's (92?) and got fired for it. I think Alain could have just as easily done all the wonderful things that Micheal has done. And the other driver wouldn't suffer all the wierd tech problems that RB gets when he is beating Micheal. Also, if you want to compare him in identical cars look at the Sauber Sportscar days when Mercedes took over, fired everyone and put in Germans. Was he quicker than the other drivers like Frentzen back then? What about in the wet? But there is more to F1 than a string of corners. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1677 Registered: 10-2002 |
PSK, you said it all. MS made Benetton great, then moved on and got Ferrari back from midfield to the top. Yes, that poster is ignorant...or: It is a devious plot to get MS out of the best car into a lesser one and thereby giving Kimi a better chance at the WC. It would be interesting to have him in the same team with his brother. Although not for long, then Ralf would go packing his bags. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 845 Registered: 11-2002 |
Found this the other day and thought I would share it with you guys ... you probably need a laugh
Okay I have assumed he has stated this because he thinks that Ferrari have always had the best cars, and thus MS is using the best car to win. Obviously this person is an idiot or has no knowledge of recent history, and the fact that MS went to Ferrari to prove that he is the best by dragging up to the top, an under performing team. Or he could mean that MS needs to race against decent number 2's. Again no understanding of F1 history at all. When MS first raced a Jordon around SPA he was very much a number 2 and nailed the existing driver by a huge margin in his first drive. Okay the other driver was not the cream of the field ... though. Also I am not aware of any contractual stipuation that the number 2 had to be useless at Beneton, and in most cases there he destroyed somebodies career. Barrichello is IMO a very naturally talented driver, but not the best racer, and MS is consistently faster ... and Barrichello was one of the young guns once. Yes I know that RB has to pull over for MS ... but lets face it MS would pass RB many, many more times than RB passing MS (if he actually could). Unfortunately the lack of talent in F1 at the moment (ie. no Prosts or Sennas, etc.) will mean that MS is not given the correct respect in the history books ... a bit like Mick Doohean with the bikes. But it is really funny reading these posts, when we all were saying the same before MS moved to Ferrari ... and 100% proved how absolutely great he really is. Damon Hill tried this by going to Arrows and just showed how average he really was ... although Hungry was a marvelous effort. Pete ps: 90% of the posts over on that site appear to be from teenages or something, because the General forum is full of rubbish ... thankfully the racing part of FerrariChat is not contaiminated with that stuff. |