| Author | Message | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 598 Registered: 8-2001 |
Ben & others, You are probably right in that I should not have given permission. However, many times the people are on a power trip or have their own agendies (or both). So sometimes it is best to just give in since the ultimate desire is to live a great life. One can beat city hall, but city hall can then make one wish they had not won. The police could have said something like the tires look underinflated so the car has to be inpounded for safety reasons - any made up excuse. The worse abuse of government power I have seen is at Dugway Proving Ground, Utah. Joyce Hunt is a good example. She is extremely competent, and comes from the pioneer stock that made this country great. One day the Army IG people came to Dugway. They chose random people (to include Joyce) to ask about problems. She told them the truth. They went to the chem lab and closed it on the spot due to safety issues. It was closed for over a year until they built a new one (the old one could not be made safe). Of course the Army gave out news releases about how safe the old chem lab was at the same time it was closed for safety reasons. Several of the chem lab supervisors got drunk, broke into Joyce's home in Tooele Utah and gang raped her. Several went to jail, but Dugway kept it out of the papers - not good PR (I do not think any government should have this power). Dugway moved her to Baker Bio Labs (renamed Life Sciences Building - the main Bio Warfare Test Facility in the US). Later they moved her to Carr Test Range. There her brake lines were cut with a high tech tool that only Dugway had. In the resulting crash on Johnson's Pass (known for its 126 curves), her car was toteled but she escaped serious injury. Last time I talked to her, she no longer wanted to work for Civil Service. This is an extreme example, but sometimes when one questions certain authorities, bad things happen. I have faught more than my share of impossible battles. It seems the best approach is to be an anomous (sp) whistle blower like DeepThroat (he/she got it right, and they still was able to stand on principe); but one can also stand on principle alone (self and family suffers), move on elsewhere, or give up principle. I try to fight the battles that are important and that I have a good chance of winning. That is why I gave the officer permission. | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 869 Registered: 6-2002 |
Dave- I can't go back to Utah anymore, as result of a BS speed trap. (yeah, like I'm going to slam on my brakes from 70 to a fuking 35 just beecause some shithole town decided to spring up there, not with a semi behind me, sorry, I'm gonna keep my speed up. ) All that said, I have several good friends in LE, and they're stand-up people who don't practice this kind of BS. It's just the rare exceptions that ruin it all for everyone. PS: Never 'agree' or 'give permission' for the officer to do anything. Politely decline. Say "Actually, my lawyer told me not to, if that's OK." or some such. Don't be hostile, but be firm in standing for your rights. They will quickly mark you an 'informed citizen' and send you on your way, and continue to look for the boobs they can harass. Best! Ben. | ||
| Gabe V (Racerxgto)
Junior Member Username: Racerxgto Post Number: 111 Registered: 4-2003 |
Quote: ------------------------ Taking an exit ramp off an Interstate highway, there is a sign that says Exit Speed something like 35 or 40 mph. Just beyond the sign they put a radar trap. Always see them writing tickets. ------------------------- Wow. That's some bad-ass police work. Thats is the elite cops protecting its citizens from violent crimes.Pfffffft. Quote: ------------------------- There has been much controversy about illegal searches in Southern Utah........I realize that many times governments do not follow their own laws and have their own agendies. Not right, but that is just the way it is. We have to deal with it. ------------------------ Ah yes, the refined qualities of crack police work. Under those conditions, people will reach a breaking point. That is the makings of a bad formula. People will get tired of it and retaliate. California has anti-racing task forces as well. CHP has their unit utilizing various methods. When they go on crackdown mode, they swarm a hot area and everything is enforced to the letter of the law. No mercy. Local law enforcement.... and I won't mention any names *ahem* Sacramento City Police Department, who just received their government funding for an anti-racing task force is equiped with "rice" cars as well as an assortment of C5 Corvettes, Camaros and Mustangs. SUV's with dark tinted windows and about a few 800mhz antenna's sticking out the roof cruise around making notes about hangout spots and feed information to move their enforcement teams. You could be just cruising home from a restaraunt in a hot sports car, pass through a "hot spot" where the cops will paint you as a potential vehicle stop.I'm always currious to hear of the latest tacticts in law enforcements. | ||
| rob guess (Beast)
Member Username: Beast Post Number: 334 Registered: 5-2003 |
When i lived in Albuquerque if i got pulled over or harrased by the MAN, i always made it a point to ask if they knew Sgt. So and so?? After i asked they would change there tone and say consider this to be a verbal warning. My friend had a real big rep inside of the department when he was just out of rookie training and he arrested his father for soliciting a prostitute!!! He had the option of letting his dad go but decided to make the arrest. In 2 years he was made sgt. in the department. glad i stayed on his good side when i raced motocross with him prior to going into the PD. | ||
| yasir saifullah (Yasir)
New member Username: Yasir Post Number: 35 Registered: 7-2002 |
Here in Louisville,KY it's not unusual to see a Camaro or some other unmarked car parked on the left shoulder.Now most of the time you won't even pay any attention to those cars not until you see him getting out with his lights flashing. Later, yasir | ||
| Craig (Beachbum)
Junior Member Username: Beachbum Post Number: 200 Registered: 9-2002 |
my X was irvine pd, she taught me about the "do you know why i pulled you over" line, yould be amazed how many people admit there infraction, now when im asked, i just say " my X is irvine pd and she told me never to admit to anything" usaully the cops laugh and let me go | ||
| Dr. Erik Nielsen (Judge4re)
Junior Member Username: Judge4re Post Number: 193 Registered: 4-2003 |
Where I live, the penalty for speeding is $10/mile over the limit. Drove the Ferrari to work on Thursday and there were two cops at the first street in the neighborhood. They truly looked pissed as I passed them doing 20 in a 25. I think they actually caught on the last time when I drove the benz out of the neighborhood and came back to get the red car and did the same thing. | ||
| Dan (Bobafett)
Intermediate Member Username: Bobafett Post Number: 1374 Registered: 9-2002 |
Mike550: That does sound like entrapment. Absolutely garbage. --Dan | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1811 Registered: 5-2001 |
The search was perfectly legal, since you gave permission. I would not let them search my car...it is purely a "fishing expedition". Sure, if you "have nothing to hide", but I am principled, and this bothers me...so I would politely decline, and if he pressed, just say I am declining, and nothing more. It would probably end there and you would be on your way. I must emphasize that one should ALWAYS be polite and be sure to pass the "attitude" test with law enforcement. Who says "get a f-ing warrant, cop!"..guilty people...be polite, but firm, say nothing extra. A friend who is a cop once said, that you always want your interactions with LE to be as short as possible (nothing good comes from long drawn out conversations, searches or anything else; do your business and move on. Be polite, never friendly. John, watch out for Washington State Patrol...in addition to the white volvo wagons, they have a white taxi cab (marked "Speedco") and a couple black SUV's and several unmarked Ford Crown Vics. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 795 Registered: 10-2001 |
Just speeding. 48 or something in a 35 zone. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 794 Registered: 10-2001 |
cops got smart... they don't put every white powder in their mouth anymore.. they have those test kits that turn blue. But my friends in BodyBuilding use to get messed with when carrying little bags of white protien powder for their crazy diets. That was a long time ago also. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 6301 Registered: 8-2002 |
Mark, a ticket for what...? | ||
| mike550 (Mikeg)
Junior Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 79 Registered: 8-2003 |
Mark (Study) - awesome story. Makes me want to carry a small bag of that in the glove box just in case some idiot wants to search my car and give me the business. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 793 Registered: 10-2001 |
Des- his tonque was burned so bad, he couldn't write me a ticket. But a back-up guy arrived, and he wrote me a ticket. No big deal... for me. Funny how cops don't trust people. Spend too much time with crooks and bad guys I guess. | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 596 Registered: 8-2001 |
Unamerican not to be a dog lover! It was a total waste of everyone's time. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 6294 Registered: 8-2002 |
i'm with Mark G on that- don't EVER let them search your car... Stand up for YOUR RIGHTS... They have NO RIGHT to search your car without a WARRANT or without probable cause... Fight the system, @#$% the establishment...! | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 595 Registered: 8-2001 |
NOT a dog lover - shoot him! | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Member Username: Markg Post Number: 593 Registered: 2-2001 |
And during that 90 minute waste of time BS car stop, how many stolen cars, drunk drivers, reckless drivers and unsafe cars went unchecked or un-noticed in his district...??? Next say no to the consensual search - make him get a warrant; tell him if he believes he has probable cause to believe you or your can have been involved in a crime or been an instrumentality in a crime to seal the car, get a warrant etc. | ||
| Will 575 (Willh)
Junior Member Username: Willh Post Number: 225 Registered: 3-2003 |
"I guess a country boy did not like Ferrari drivers." Maybe he just doesn't like dogs.  | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 6292 Registered: 8-2002 |
Mark Study, that's just fuggin' hilarious...! Did he give you a ticket...? | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 593 Registered: 8-2001 |
I guess a country boy did not like Ferrari drivers. | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 592 Registered: 8-2001 |
First he had to run a slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww computer check. I guess there are connection issues from remote areas. Then he talked to someone on the radio about what to do. Then he waited for a decision. Then asked my permission. Then searched the car, clothes, dog food, etc. Car search was the minor part. Then let me go. From time of pull over to driving off was about 1 1/2 hours. Most spent in waiting. | ||
| mike550 (Mikeg)
Junior Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 77 Registered: 8-2003 |
"As it was, took about an hour and a half." Ferrarris are just not that big. I can search the entire car - every nook and cranny in 5 minutes. Do you have "aftermarket hiding places" on yours? He was obviously in slow mode to aggravate you. | ||
| Will 575 (Willh)
Junior Member Username: Willh Post Number: 223 Registered: 3-2003 |
"As it was, took about an hour and a half." I hope you had him do the major service while he had the engine out. Good grief, an hour and a half? Are you kidding? Do you have a big problem out there with criminals driving Ferraris? | ||
| mike550 (Mikeg)
Junior Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 76 Registered: 8-2003 |
A friend of mine got busted in San Francisco by an under cover cop in a Camero. He pulled next to him at a light and revved the engine (which baited him into a race). At the next light a two marked cars pulled out and pulled him over. He asked the guy why he revved his engine - to which his reply was "why did you race me" He got a ticket. P.S. he won the race. I said it sounded to me like entrapment. | ||
| John Do'h (Combover)
Junior Member Username: Combover Post Number: 78 Registered: 8-2003 |
1) Even if you were going the speed limit, he could still pull you over for "too fast for conditions." 2) I saw a Washington State Trooper in a White Volvo 850 pulling people over. I was like daaaaamn-that's sneaky. | ||
| ryan (Ferrari_kid)
New member Username: Ferrari_kid Post Number: 27 Registered: 7-2003 |
speaking of speed traps, recently maryland has gotten pretty tight about that. they have been using completely unexpected types of unmarked cars, so far i've seen jeep libertys to chevy luminas. i have also heard of them using japanese imports to catch people. i haven't seen any other neighboring states that are so avid about catching speeders like maryland. short of having a laser/radar detector you are better of just not speeding. | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Member Username: Markg Post Number: 592 Registered: 2-2001 |
Speed for Conditions laws (overturned in some states as being 'un-constitutional vague')simply means you cannot drive faster than prevailing conditions would dictate. Conceivably you could get a speeding ticket for going 45 in a 55. Many factors contribute to 'conditions' including weather, road condition, neighborhood, unforeseen road obsticals etc. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 792 Registered: 10-2001 |
Here's one for you guys. Cop stops me for speeding and wants to search my motorcycle. (This was 17 years ago) I just laughed and said, "serach away". He looks in a big brown paper bag, I had just come from the pet store, It had a small plastic bag of white powder in it. Cop gets big grin on his face and says what's this? I tell him its a very strong chemical base for balancing the "PH" acidity in my salt water fish tank. The cop sticks his finger in it and touches it to his tongue. Burned the hell out of his tongue. Very funny watching him jump up and down. He was pissed. I just laughed and said I warned you. | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 587 Registered: 8-2001 |
Rosso, Unfortuniately nothing interesting. For the hastle, should have at least been several cases of rum! Not even an open container. Just a container of coffee and some food. Plus clothes, notebook computer, and some reference books. Boring. Dog liked the stop though. The seats in a Mondial are just the right height that a big beagle (snoopy) dog can rest his nose on the door sill. Of course at speeds, the head has to be out. | ||
| Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
Intermediate Member Username: Benjet Post Number: 1192 Registered: 1-2001 |
The newest trick (not yet implemented in most places) uses Video Radar. This is a combines Video Camera/Recorder + Radar Gun in one. The cop sits along side the fwy (as usual), the camera records the passing cars and the radar labels passing cars with their speed (very much like Fox Sports coverage of NASCAR) - recording this on video. If you are doing the limit or abouts your car is ignored, if you are speeding you get a label with your indicated speed recorded on tape. Neighboring cars (even non-speeders) may get labeled - as a point of reference, as to how fast the speeding vehicle is going compared to normal traffic. Cop either makes chase or radios to another officer ahead to scoop you up. This setup does not have to be in a patrol car, it can be in a highway service truck or the like (and beamed to a monitor in a patrol car ahead). And before you ask, yes your radar detector does go off but if you don't see the patrol car you are more likely to blow off the alarm. Hard to fight this in court - it's the Red Light Camera for Speeders. -Ben | ||
| Rosso (Redhead)
Member Username: Redhead Post Number: 394 Registered: 12-2001 |
In CA. the signs on the off rams/on ramps, or any "advisory" speed limit sign is yellow. On most tickets in most states that I have seen, there are 3 boxes for the speed limit. Actual Posted Safe or(some word along those lines) This to the best of my knowledge (Mark G care to comment) is for the advisory signs as well as if your driving 65 in a downpour or something stupid, where the "safe" speed would take hold over the actual. As far as the search...Dave..what were you smuggling??? | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 586 Registered: 8-2001 |
There has been much controversy about illegal searches in Southern Utah. The trooper was professional. However, I thought it was just an excuse to search the car. Not right, but I try not to argue with people carrying guns. It seemed the path of least resistance. As it was, took about an hour and a half. Like dealing with kids, have to chose ones battles. I think the US is the best country in the world. However, any government ran by people will be inperfect. I realize that many times governments do not follow their own laws and have their own agendies. Not right, but that is just the way it is. We have to deal with it. On the ramps, I thought the signs were just advisory. I took a closer look at one this morning. It is orange where most speed signs are white. The sign said: "Ramp Speed 35 MPH" The SLC Police do not think they are advisory. However, do not know if they are giving out warnings or tickets. Just that they are giving out many of them. | ||
| wayne skiles (Bad_tt)
Junior Member Username: Bad_tt Post Number: 53 Registered: 8-2002 |
Mitchell I agree. Why did you let him search the vehicle? Drifting out of lane was an obvious excuse to stop you and search your vehicle!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Robert Faber (F129b)
New member Username: F129b Post Number: 38 Registered: 8-2003 |
Colorado Springs now goes to #6,774,938 on my " most desirable cities in which to live" list. Disgusting conflict of interest going on there! | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Member Username: Markg Post Number: 591 Registered: 2-2001 |
Mitchell: The current "Supreme" Court, in a series of 5->4 decisions, has ruled the US Constitution invalid. Add to that the "Patriot" Act..... Dave: After long drives at high speeds people do not realize how fast they are going, and often take exits at speeds way to fast. Actually a good spot for speed enforcement, but warnnings/lecture rather than tickets best in my opinion....when looking for a specific site while driving the brain has a tendancy to want to go in that direction, which at hiway speeds would resemble DUI or driver exhaustion, so being stopped would be understandable. Asking to search a vehicle is the best way to get around that pesky 'probable cause' issue that, at one time, actually had meaning. If the officer has decided he wants to search your car he's going to, no matter what. I have driven through Utah many times, including in the 308, with no problems. I know quite a few folks who have had 'interaction' with the Utah Hiway Patrol and all agree they are a very professional organization. HOWEVER, there is a disgusting trend, with NYPD the worst offender, of cash strapped communities turning their Law Enforcement organizations into cash making machines. Colorado Springs now pays it's traffic cops soley from ticket money....no tickets, no job. There is more Radar comming from the CSPD than NORAD just up the road! Just speed enforcement (city council passed local law: $10 per MPH over posted limit + court costs), you are still free to tailgate, blow red lights, etc with complete immunity. It ain't about safety, its about money, plain and simple. This may become a nation wide trend soon, makes me glad I no longer work in Law Enforcement! | ||
| Mitchell Le (Yelcab1)
Member Username: Yelcab1 Post Number: 671 Registered: 11-2001 |
Search the car on a mere pretent of "drifiting slightly outside of your lane." If that is legal then geez, we are giving up too much of our rights. I thought there is this thing called the constitution that guarrantees "no unreasonable search or seizures." I am voting. | ||
| Dennis (Bighead)
Junior Member Username: Bighead Post Number: 230 Registered: 2-2003 |
Actually, there is a loophole. The signs on ramps that you see that say, "35 mph" or whatever, are NOT speed limit signs. They are intended to indicate a safe speed for the ramp - i.e., how tight the turn is. Without the words, "Speed Limit" on the sign, they cannot be enforced in most states (depending on how the language is written in the regs.). vty, --Dennis | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 584 Registered: 8-2001 |
Several times I have seen the police in Salt Lake City use a new technique (at least to me). Taking an exit ramp off an Interstate highway, there is a sign that says Exit Speed something like 35 or 40 mph. Just beyond the sign they put a radar trap. Always see them writing tickets. Also between SLC and Las Vegas there are many radar traps. Recently had an unusual experience. Was looking for the exit for a particular business at night. Found it, after taking the exit, got pulled over. The Officer said that I had drifted slightly out of my lane. Possible since there was no traffic near me and I was looking for the correct exit. He said that he had pulled me over for my own safety to make sure I was alright. After running my drivers license and the plates, he asked if he could search the car. So the dog and I took a stretch break while he searched the car. Then the Officer said I was free to go - not even a warning. If you go this route, be careful, Big Brother is in Southern Utah. |