| Author | Message | ||
| Peter Polasek (Peterp)
Junior Member Username: Peterp Post Number: 138 Registered: 8-2002 |
> Luca and others are to blame, and whats with the increase in production, > Ferrari would never allowed it, he felt a owning a Ferrari should be a > dream like reaching for a star. What exactly is Luca to do to keep production low? Gouge on the prices? Continue to make cars that aren't practical to drive on a daily basis? Do the math on the number of cars Ferrari sells times the price, subtract the costs to design and build the cars, to cover warranty repairs, to run a world class racing team, etc. Any design costs Ferrari incurs are divided by a small number of car sales. The revenue Ferrari receives per car is multiplied by a very small number of car sales. Successfully running an exotic car business is an extremely difficult challenge and, by any measure, Luca is doing just fine. The cars are practical to drive and are a relatively good value at the price. Maybe you can take comfort in the fact that they are still expensive to maintain. If you are too embarassed to be seen in a 360, buy an Enzo. | ||
| Spasso (Djparks)
Member Username: Djparks Post Number: 684 Registered: 2-2003 |
As far as logos go, I had a lady walk up behind my 308 and because of the horse insignia asked if it was the new Mustang. I politely told her that "NO, it's a Ferrari and they had the horse first!". This shows me that no matter how unique a car is there is going to be a certain percentage of people that are going to lump your car in with a Ford, Chevy or Toyota Supra etc..........in which case I won't consider their comments all that valid when it comes to appreciation of what my car REALLY is and what it can do. It's a moot point and as far as I am concerned a non-issue. In other words why bother trying to quantify my car to somebody that doesn't relate and doesn't care anyway. DJ | ||
| Spasso (Djparks)
Member Username: Djparks Post Number: 683 Registered: 2-2003 |
Thanks for the clarification Thomas. | ||
| luciano favero (Ontogenetic1007)
Junior Member Username: Ontogenetic1007 Post Number: 58 Registered: 11-2002 |
>At least Ferrari isnt building minivans and SUVs. Yet. As every one undoubtedly observed the 612's fascia renders it the most delicious SXV (TM) for years to come. Imperceptible hues to tantalize all palates: fragrant volatil violet  rosso incandescente  cayenne azurro  | ||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
Member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 982 Registered: 3-2002 |
Hey Dale: Have fun in Naw Awlaans. Be careful with the LA cops. LA cops love to write tickets on cars with plates from the State to the immediate west. Bubba may want to check out the sharp ride with the trick front license plate. It kinda looks like a customized Camaro. LOL. Don't forget the beniegts. You are going to check out the Big Easy from above ! Nice looking 550 !!! Have a fun time. | ||
| Dale W Spradling (Drtax)
Member Username: Drtax Post Number: 498 Registered: 4-2003 |
>>Dr. tax, You sound pissed at my remark but I would be also If I just paid what you did for a boring Italian Supra 550.<< Steve, I guess you didn't read what I posted. I really don't give a hoot what you think about any car. My problem was you hiding behind a dead man. If you have something to say, say it. But don't try and pretend that you are Enzo Jr. Well, good nite all. I'm headed for New Orleans in the morning. Too bad, they're gonna have all those crummy old cars there, ha! Dale | ||
| George LaFleur (308geo)
Junior Member Username: 308geo Post Number: 99 Registered: 12-2002 |
I think that Ferrari is continuing the tradition nicely. Enzo was quoted as saying, "There is Ferrari and then there is everything else." I feel that this still holds true today. It IS the benchmark that ALL the other makers shoot for. I read somewhere that The MOST recognizable company name/logo on the entire planet was Coca Cola; the SECOND most known is Ferrari! More people know what a Ferrari is than a Chevy or Ford? Cool! No matter how fast someboby elses "Belch-Fire 2000" is, they, almost without fail, admire & respect Ferraris. Did I buy a 308 for repect? No, I bought it for me because I like the looks, performance, style, & all the idiosyncrasies of the car and it's ownership. I can agree that the 360 is a bigger car; something I am not thrilled about, but I would still like to own one someday. I have not driven one to judge it, but I have heard that it is a better performing car than the 355 (which I have driven.) I can agree that the market maybe dictating the "luxury" aspect of the current offerings, that is, that the aging buyers are demanding these features. The Corvette is no different. The C4 was a smaller car than the C5 (which I have driven both) and the C5 is WAY too "Cadillac" for my tastes. I guess that is what happens when you put a guy in charge or the Corvette team who just spent the last 15 years in the Cadillac division---bad call IMO. PS-Ferrari had better not EVER build an SUV! | ||
| Thomas I (Wax)
Member Username: Wax Post Number: 667 Registered: 7-2003 |
The comparsion was made because the author thinks today's Ferrari should be compared to whatever is also on any given new car dealer's lot. It's simply a game of Hot Potato or Porcupine, whereby he tossed a Porcupine over his head ala a groom flinging a bride's garter off into the crowd of bachelors. Some catchers throw the garter, or in this case, the porcupine - right back at the groom. | ||
| Joe (Jts)
Junior Member Username: Jts Post Number: 190 Registered: 8-2003 |
lol Bruce! And that is saying something considering that Mr. Green set a new standard. Although, Mr. Green did offer to buy someone lunch - I wish I was in So.Cal - I would've loved to meet that putz. | ||
| Spasso (Djparks)
Member Username: Djparks Post Number: 682 Registered: 2-2003 |
Then why the why the comparison in the first place Thomas? You lost me. | ||
| Spasso (Djparks)
Member Username: Djparks Post Number: 681 Registered: 2-2003 |
Here is a picture of my other one.   | ||
| Thomas I (Wax)
Member Username: Wax Post Number: 665 Registered: 7-2003 |
Djsparks - "It looks like a Datsun" comparisons are usually made by wimmenfolk | ||
| Spasso (Djparks)
Member Username: Djparks Post Number: 680 Registered: 2-2003 |
Gee Thomas, I never thought to compare my 240Z to a Daytona. Here are some pictures.....what's the consensus guys?    | ||
| Bruce Wellington (Bws88tr)
Advanced Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 3433 Registered: 4-2002 |
TOO OBNOXIOUS FOR MR GREEN..........MATT LEMUS ?? ANYBODY AGREE??? | ||
| Thomas I (Wax)
Member Username: Wax Post Number: 660 Registered: 7-2003 |
"Enough said, time for a ride in the Daytona." Often mistaken for a mid-70's Datsun Z-car, that's the fault of Datsun - not Ferrari. Imitation is the sincerest from of flattery. What do you advocate, bnandini? That the new Ferrari models look outrageously different than any other car ever without causing head-scratching or consternation or wailing and gnashing of teeth from those (Read: those who say Ferrari isn't designing this era's cars right since Enzo kicked the bucket) who got what they asked for? Not easy to do with designer's, manufacturer's & marketer's experience/hindsight/foresight, wouldn't you say? Haven't you ever come across posts far and wide (not just F-Chat) about how whatever wire color is available was used - whatever shade of yellow was available was used under the hood on various components? How often "those Italians" is uttered about how cars were put together, regardless of Italian manufacturer? I'm crazy-love about vintage rides, but I'm also not blind to the peculiarities that one can find from car to car coming off the assembly line within a week of each other - And I'm not describing "special" one-offs or rebodies. With Ferraris of this era, if there is any unique sameness, it is a uniformity under the hood and behind the doors. British cars no longer have the edge on interior fittings. Italian cars are no longer only about engine, handling and skin, with secondary thought given to driver comfort. That's not a bad thing. The Daytona is a legendary machine - one that paved the way for many a Ferrari in aesthetic and driver, indeed, people-pleasin' satisfaction. Enjoy it, but expect comparisons from the unknowing to a Datsun. For those who say, "A new Ferrari is overpriced now..." I'd like to see what: Ferrari models were selling for when they were released. What they'd be selling for now if the original price was adjusted for inflation. Compare that to what's being built now. If you still are unconvinced and/or unmoved after all is said and nothing done on F-Chat, by all means, go to Pininfarina with your sketches. | ||
| Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Member Username: Tbakowsky Post Number: 735 Registered: 9-2002 |
This thread is turning into a....a....reallzzzz...sort...rrreeeeaall......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzetc | ||
| Joe (Jts)
Junior Member Username: Jts Post Number: 188 Registered: 8-2003 |
Simply ridiculous - but whatever. Enough. | ||
| steve bnadini (Bandini)
New member Username: Bandini Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2003 |
Back to my point, Enzo's cars caused a stir when you saw them, when the 308 came out people thought you must be a movie star or someone important while driving one, a true knockout Ferrari, unlike the new models today that just blend in with other cars And again Enzo did care and have much involvement in his street cars, he was a master manipulator and would make comments about his passion only for race cars to the media to his advantage for the Ferrari name and who really knows the real story behind the Ford bid and its failure, it would be just like Enzo to turn that situation to his advantage. Dr. tax, You sound pissed at my remark but I would be also If I just paid what you did for a boring Italian Supra 550. Enough said, time for a ride in the Daytona. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Intermediate Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 1429 Registered: 6-2002 |
Eli, i can attest to the fact that Ferraris do not garner the attention that other exotics do, atleast not anymore. I remember when i was much younger, my first Ferrari was a 328. Everywhere you went, people would stop, stare take pictures, etc. Now living on Maui, and driving my 355, you hardly get any attention. People know what it is, you get some nice car comments, actually yesterday some fool said "Nice Porsche" , but nothing compared to how it was in the old days. At a party a few weeks ago, kids expressed their opinions, told to them by their parents that Corvettes were actually faster than Ferraris, but Ferraris cost more because they are handbuilt. Ferrari's image used to be larger than life, that is no longer true. As for Lambos being hard to get into, i disagree. The ride is also just as good if not better than in the 355, and as for noise, with the stock exhaust, is quiter than my 355 was. Also, I think alot of people get disappointed in the Ferrari experience because after many years of dreaming, reading about, and idolizing say a 308 or 348 or Testarossa, finally buy one. What they dont take into account is that some of these cars were designed 30 years ago, and what was the best now is hardly the case in todays world. | ||
| Roy (Tpup)
New member Username: Tpup Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2003 |
I am probably the least qualified to comment here but what the hell  Consider it a "newbees" perspective... I have owned more than a few cars in the past and have primarily been a Porsche and Lotus guy. I purchased my first Ferrari (308GTB) because I thought it was the most beautiful car in the world at that time and because I thought Ferrari was the �top of the food chain� in regards to cars. I was very disappointed in the ownership experience. The car was beautiful to look at and went fast top speed but was a horrible car to drive imo. I drove some of the older Ferrari�s at the time and just could not get into the driving position and the effort required to steer, shift, and push in the clutch. Sold my 2nd 308 and never went back� Over the past few years (since the 355 came out) I have been interested in the cars again. They seem to be much better engineered and built than in the old days. The old quirky ergonomics are gone; they drive well, and seem to hold up better. This is based only on a few short drives� My impression has also been influenced by the success of the F1 team and by the efforts of Luca di Montezemolo to improve the quality of the streetcars. I will receive my first Ferrari in 20 years next month and look forward to it. Personally, I think that the cars are better than they were. Roy | ||
| Dale W Spradling (Drtax)
Member Username: Drtax Post Number: 494 Registered: 4-2003 |
Steve, my problem with your post is not your elitist attitude. This is your problem, not mine, i.e., if you choose to limit your enjoyment of cars to a small number of cars, then have at it. My problem is hiding YOUR opinion behind a dead man. The reality is that it is YOUR opinion that everything built after, say, the 512M sucks. You are free, of course, to have your opinions. Just remember that opinions are like rear ends. Everybody has one, and they all stink. Given this viewpoint, may I suggest that you mosey over to the vintage section where you can argue this viewpoint all day long. (Although, I doubt that you will find all that many supporters. Most of the vintage types also like the new cars. Imagine that.) Or maybe, you might want to start your own board. Something along the lines of: HeadupyourassChat.com EnzoseanceChat.com IspeakforEnzoChat.com Good Luck, Dale | ||
| thomas daniels (Castex)
Junior Member Username: Castex Post Number: 110 Registered: 6-2003 |
My early '70s effort has still to be humiliated by anything, ever. I've seen the pics of Enzo checking out the prototypes and he looks interested, animated, proud all at once. Enigmatic, you see. Complicated. He's in the cars. No, really! In mine, in the 456... I'd say the company has been, is in very good hands. If that should change I'd be really sad, but grateful for almost everything that's ever worn the cavallino | ||
| Vaughan (Vanimal)
Junior Member Username: Vanimal Post Number: 104 Registered: 3-2003 |
If ferrari still made cars like they did in the 50's to early 90's they would no longer exist as most average family cars would humiliate them on the road. Any item needs to move with the times to survive if they want to be there for the next generation. If you think its not true look around you, how many items you use / need / want daily are the same as they were 20 - 40 years ago. Just my 0.002p worth. PS - All Ferrari cars are great, some more than others of course. | ||
| Nibblesworth (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 772 Registered: 11-2002 |
Hmmm.... I guess the passion is gone. I mean, Ferrari was one the verge on bankruptcy for nearly 20 years from the early 70's to the early 90's. And they hadn't won an F1 championship from the early 80's to the late 90's. I guess now that Ferrari is selling a record number of cars and that they have won 5 F1 championships in a row is good testimony to the fact that there is no more passion in the cars. *yawn* I really like the 308 GT4s and the 400/412s, but c'mon. These care really don't "grab you immediately" or inspire a ton of passion in most car enthusiasts. yes, there are people like me that really, really like them, buy we are in the minority. And if I recall correctly, the 348 was designed while Enzo was still alive, and released two years after his death. Ooops. | ||
| matt green (Mattg)
Junior Member Username: Mattg Post Number: 68 Registered: 4-2003 |
the 612 next then the 388 SUV then ferrari is not ferrari anymore... | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2901 Registered: 10-2002 |
Terry Laura was a piece of work. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 841 Registered: 4-2002 |
Steve... Have you ever really read any info on Enzo? Have you read any of the good biographies? Articles from people who knew him and had extensive dealings with him? Enzo had minimal impact on the design and production of the street cars. He would dictate what type of engine it would have and he would approve general dimensions and such... but thats really about it. He left it to guys like Pininfarina, Scaglietti, Bertone, Vignale and others to come up with the styling and build the bodies. He had guys like Jano, Lampredi, Columbo and others do the mechanical engineering. He focused on managing the finances and running the racing team.... while chasing Italian hotties, drinking with the boys and laughing at stupid Americans who were willing to pay astronomical prices for his cars because he treated them like peasants. Enzo was only focused on the racing. To a large degree he treated customers like dirt and looked down on them. It is well known and accepted that Enzo really did not care about the street cars! Enzo probably spent more time chasing skirts and maintaining mistresses than he did influencing the design and manufacture of his street cars! Heck... at one point his wife Laura may have actually had more impact on the street car division than he had! I drive a Daytona too. I wouldnt trade it for any of todays models. I prefer the older cars because I find them more engaging to drive, better looking and offering lots of fun performance without having to travel at insane speeds. However the change in character of the cars is simply progress... it has nothing to do with Enzo being alive or dead. At least Ferrari isnt building minivans and SUVs. Yet. | ||
| robert biscan (Tn_ferrari_bob)
New member Username: Tn_ferrari_bob Post Number: 46 Registered: 1-2003 |
When I went to Indy F1 the fiirst two years, I went with the FCA. We had a banquet dinner the nite before Sundays race on both occasions. The first year nobody at all from the race came but Ferrari of North America was there saying production was up and Ferrari posted record profits the year before. In my mind he was telling us owners we are doing you and you like it. I am not a stock owner and I was there for the racing. I was so dissappointed as well as nearly everyone else who was there. I was so naive to think Michael might show up. Maybe a pivotal person from the crew with lively stories. But noooo. The second year was better with some one there from the race team to talk about the race for a few minutes. I have been mistreated by Ferari and I can accept the idea that they have a product I want and they are arrogant about it. Customer relations are not job one there. I too like the looks of many of the older cars but the wind tunnel is shaping the cars of Ferrari and everyone else. Wind is the biggest factor to performance at high speeds , like hitting a wall. Shape is key for those last 10 mph or 20 mph. I dont believe wind tunnels were in the mix in the good old days , maybe the F 40. I have a new 360 and what a engineering marvel. I still dont like the front end but it is growing one me and yes it does look like more of a production car than the old ones. Wind Tunnel. The people at the factory think the Enzo satisfies the people who need and inspiring car for their special people. They sell these things to their own private list. My opinion is that Ferrari has changed but is still an exciting car with reasonably good looks and the best option out there. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Intermediate Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 1233 Registered: 10-2001 |
I doubt a GT4 will ever be worth more than a 360, but I get your point. A 308 may eventually be worth more than a 348. | ||
| Miguel Angel Mu�oz (Mam)
New member Username: Mam Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2003 |
The 612 is the most horrible ferrari car of the history | ||
| matt green (Mattg)
Junior Member Username: Mattg Post Number: 66 Registered: 4-2003 |
I would rather keep a showroom clean bertone 308gt4 than a showroom clean 360. I would rather sell a 360 for obvious reasons. A brand new infinity g35 sedan fills the luxury ergonomics scenario far better, so why make a ferrari try to be that? In a ferrari I want beauty, grace and a some play power. Anyone can go and buy a perfect showroom fresh 360. It takes someone special to have a showroom fresh 1977 308bertone/gt4. And the 308gt4 will be worth more in 30yrs. Guaranteed. In S.fl. where I live 360's are everywhere like pcars but I have never seen a clean gt4 in south beach. It gets waaaaay more "coool factor" from me. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 1000 Registered: 10-2001 |
If you use the definitions below. Ferrari is slowly getting out of the Exotic business, and is entering the more lucrative Luxury car business. And is in good company. Exotic sports car- hard to get in and out of, no trunk space, noise and harsh ride. Lamborghini Ultimate Luxury car(Retro flare)- More room, comfortable, easier to shift, space for 2 sets of golf clubs, easy to get in an out of. MB, BMW, Lexus, Ferrari 19-38 year old web-heads will be pissed that Ferrari is not the exotic stuff of posters we had hung in our bedrooms. Ferrari doesn't care. They give us an Enzo poster... that will keep the kids excited. 40-68 year old guys, with money, want a car that is easy to climb into, quiter to ride in, more comfotable and has room for luggage on weekend trip. Ferrari knows what it is doing. I wish I could get a re-make of Dino,308,TR with modern new Tech. But exotic body shapes are impractical. ( I'm sorry but the 360 spider's basic profile looks fat and bloated when parked beside a 308. Comfort takes space away from sleek. No getting around it!) * Enzo is only 1% of productions. Not a big enough number to be anything more then a halo car. (Gets them in your showroom to look at your luxury cars) The Death of Enzo has nothing to do with this. It is the aging of the baby-boomers and their huge spending power. You try getting in a Diablo with an artificial hip. | ||
| ELI (Titanium360)
Member Username: Titanium360 Post Number: 673 Registered: 4-2002 |
"A Ferrari should grab you immediately", please go get a 360 spider or a 355 spider and tell me if it doesn't grap anyones attention when you drive it! you got to be kidding me. A Supra and 360 gets the same attention correct? | ||
| Manu (Manu)
Member Username: Manu Post Number: 867 Registered: 2-2002 |
I would like Ferraris to be harder edged - ESPECIALLY the V12s... There is no doubt about it - Ferrari are now catering for an older target demographic - they are not really a "young mans" car.. fair enough I suppose - very few under 30s can drop �170,000 on toy. The problem is this - the competition is getting very tough... I recently drove a new 2003 CL55 AMG... WOW.... makes a 456GT seem pricey. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3389 Registered: 2-2001 |
Enzo was very cool no doubt but I think today most Ferraris are built to much higher quality standards & the racing team isnt doing bad either Thye need more emphasis on sportscar racing where the Ferrari legend was born | ||
| Jean Dupont (Cavallino)
Junior Member Username: Cavallino Post Number: 75 Registered: 8-2003 |
I agree, that is not the same. But now, since the 355, the cars are good manufactured. And the factory made a lot of progress in production technologies. If you buy a Ferrari you know why they are so expensive, and when you saw the assembly lines you really understand. They are very good cars, despite the Ferrari Story ended in 1988. But the passion for red cars will always continue. That is what we do all through this chat. | ||
| Rijk Rietveld (Rijk365gtb4)
Member Username: Rijk365gtb4 Post Number: 316 Registered: 1-2002 |
Ernie, Why don't you tell us how you really feel Rijk | ||
| J R K (Kenyon)
Member Username: Kenyon Post Number: 991 Registered: 10-2002 |
Ferrari ruled then and Ferrari rule now. New and classic cars are all nice. Steve from your first post how can you say the 348 is boring computer made car when its a smaller version of the Tessa V12. The looks are almost the same. The F355 was modified slightly on looks for the 348 (No side grills and round lights at the rear). The big changes came with the 360 and 550 great new designs for the twenty first century. | ||
| Ernie (Ernie)
Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 859 Registered: 11-2001 |
When I first got my Ferrari it was because I had always wanted one since I was a kid. I loved the way they looked, the way they sounded, cause they were FAST! Then Miami Vice hit the TV screen, when I was a teenager, and I had to have one someday. Well someday came two years ago. I was so happy. But then the aweful truth surfaced. I started to find out what Ferrari ownership was really about. It is about being treated like crap, getting over charged, and misguided. Being told "If you can afford to buy one, then you can afford to pay to maintain it", as an excuse to cover the fact that they are poorly put together. Ferrari didn't care about the customer cars back then and they still don't care about the customers, especially in the Untied States, their BIGGEST CUSTOMER. I can see now why Jay Leno doesn't own a Ferrari, and he has the money to buy one of every model ever made. I can see why Mr. Lamborgini wanted to stick it to Ferrari. Now that Audi owns Lamborgini, if they deside to push Lambo to the top of the racing world, they will just like they did with the Bentley Boys. Plain and simple the germans make a better car. Even the Prodrive 550 is on top because of some English Men with no factory help at all. As far as racing goes, the one and only reason that Ferrari is again standing on the podium is because of another German, Schmacher, and the people he brought with him. The best money that Ferrari ever spent was on his contract. When Enzo was still around his harded headedness kept them from winning a race in over a quarter century. If Michael was ever to leave Ferrari and go to McLaren or Williams, the glory days for Ferrari would be over. Watch and see what happens when he retires. As for Ferrari not being the same since Enzo passsed away. I agree it is getting better. Enzo designed the cars just as much as Puff Daddy designs the clothes for Sean John. He had a say so in it but we all know that it was Pininferina that made the cars beautiful. Us the owners are what makes the Ferrari road going cars worth their salt. We are left to work out the bugs, and there are plenty of them, that Ferrari could careless about. How many of you have had to have spent thousands and thousands getting your car sorted out. The factory should have put out cars that were bullit proof, especially for the idiotic prices they ask for. But all Ferrari cared about was his race team. If I sound disgruntled, it is becasue I am. Some may be thinking "if you are so upset, the why don't you sell it". I tell you why, because I still like my car. When I look at it I still get a smile on my face. When I hear the engine screeming I still get excited. I can't help but chuckle sometimes because I'm driving my child hood dream. What I don't like the crap that goes with it. Once it is all sorted out, the way it should have came from the factory, it is gonna be a pleasure to drive. Why do yo think that this site is so great. It is because of us, the owners. Thanks to Rob we have a place to go for help. The kind of help that we should get from Ferrari, but don't, and if we did they would wanna charge us for it. Yeah we get into fights here, but thats cause we are guys. Even when we are in our own homes watching the football game we fight about what team is better. But we still come back here again and again. Becasue this is what real Ferrari ownership is, helping each other out, not getting our wallets stollen. I hope Ferrari gets bought, so that the Mafioso tactics that FNA uses get put to a stop. So that the future of Ferrari will out shine the past. So that the cars to come will be the the best one the road. So that not only will they look and sound good, but they will be extreamly reliable. So that even if the part is expensive, you know that it is a one time deal, because they rarely ever break. But that is in the distant future, if at all. I will keep my Ferrari, but I won't be buying another one until the company gets fixxed first. | ||
| luciano favero (Ontogenetic1007)
Junior Member Username: Ontogenetic1007 Post Number: 57 Registered: 11-2002 |
someone >The Bertone 308 was built while he was alive. Rather have that than a 360? Absolutely. More ingenious. More exclusive. It is a brilliantly executed, multidimensional design (if one enjoys early 70's design in general). It drives s u p e r b l y (better than the 308's. 328's. 348's). Overall, one of the best "modern" Ferrari's. The 246GT (not S) is lovely as well (after all the GT/4's planes race across 246's curves), albeit less practical. someone else >Dino 308 GT4 - now this looks like like an old Supra, but worse. In what sense does a 308GT/4 look like a Supra? The 308GT/4 is a more subtly styled Stratos, a minimalist 246GT. Gandini's design captures early 70's nearly as well as Giugiaro's Esprit. (better than Fioravanti's 308, which has been the _clich�_ sport car design for decades. Euro 308GTB's are still nice). someone else >Daytonas are great cars. Incidentally Fioravanti, who has designed all of the Ferrarichat majority's (pure speculation of course ) favorites considers it his best design. And why do you think that may be? someone else >I must disagree with the initial post. The 360 spider is one of the most beautiful cars ever made (after the Dino), >echoes the iconic 250 LM, is a blast to drive and has been totally problem free for over the last 2 years. >To anyone with better than 20/90 vision it looks nothing like a Supra. In fact I loved it so much I bought 2. > >HMM, let's look at some of the "wonderful" cars built during Enzo's life: > >365 GTC-looks like a cockroach. >400/412- yawn. My father's 1974 Dodge Dart had more personality. You seem to understand sportiness (design for the masses). Personally, I feel that the 400/412 captures a certain something of "Italy" much much better than the 360, which, although a beautiful car, whispers mostly "homeless exotic" >Mondial-reviled by almost everyone >Dino 308 GT4-now this looks like like an old Supra, but worse. >365 GT4 2+2: makes the mondial look like an Enzo. > >BTW, no one had to wait, reach for a star or be a movie star to buy a 400/412. Most people live their life. Approximately 10% imagine it. Naturlich, I feel that Gandini's designs are very fashionable and in that 10%. Regards. | ||
| Thomas I (Wax)
Member Username: Wax Post Number: 650 Registered: 7-2003 |
Q: What's on F-Chat tonight? A: Just another Rerun of -  | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Intermediate Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 1428 Registered: 6-2002 |
Amen Modman! | ||
| Dan (Bobafett)
Intermediate Member Username: Bobafett Post Number: 1647 Registered: 9-2002 |
Hubert, As always, your brilliance cuts through like a shining sword of damascus! --Dan Edit: Although, if Damascan, it'd be rather dull in color! | ||
| Russ Turner (Snj5)
Member Username: Snj5 Post Number: 627 Registered: 2-2003 |
Our required monthly inane posts of folks trying to define Ferrari for Ferrari. I'll give Luca a call, I know he'll be relieved.... | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1581 Registered: 1-2002 |
why this insistant rhetoric about "what enzo wanted"? what enzo wanted was to win races (although i'm not even so sure about that), and for that, he had to homologate his racing cars. however, by the time he'd established some clout in the racing world he was accomplishing sleights of hand to circumvent the rules, and didn't even bother making street versions of (some) of his new racers; i.e., slipping bigger motors in existing cars , or releasing new models under last years livery. the "street cars" to which your rhetoric clings (an your ego thrives upon) are , for all intents and purposes, an afterthought ( he sold them , and not only got his race cars to be legit, but also made some money. woo hoo.) and even if the street cars were a priority -- why didn't enzo have an inhouse design studio? surely there's influence, but his cars have always been skined by someone elses pen, and even bodied by others as well. the only sway he ( may or may not have had) was the mechanicals, and by those grounds, he was simply an engineer; what ever "fashion" followed his desired "function" was simply an elemental sum of it's parts. you can spend all day , and all night (although you say we should all get a life), arguing the merits, and timeline, of ferrari's evolution (as a car co.), but in reality they're simply a race team that moonlights as a car company; whatever credo you use to jsutify your antiquated opinion is just that, antiquated. as long as i've heard opinions about what is, should and what makes a "true" ferrari, i can't help but think of how much bullshit get flung around on the topic, becuase any individual can look back upon the "history" of ferrari and clearly see a timeline puncuated with hits, misses and everything in between, and can justify (without fault or exception) the splendor , or folly, of any given period, but what does that prove? nothing. for example, many argue that the dino isn't a ferrari, and yet it was in memorial to enzo's son (legitimacy not withstanding). how could it not be a genuine article?? it was "called upon" by enzo's hand, no? the mondial, the 412 , etc were not "raw" etc, but under his watchful eye, no? under enzos command the f1 team wasn't all that great ,why? wasn't he the commander? and why even race in f1? since the formula requires a mid-engine layout , and procludes any ferrari f1 car from being a "true" ferrari, as "... the horse should pull the cart, not push it..." You see where i'm going? Hmm, probably not. If you're after nostaligia, so be it, but there's quite a bit of haphazard among the ranks of your revered lineage of cars. | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 768 Registered: 11-2001 |
Why is that some are saying the Lambo is compromising function for form? How do you say that if you're not the engineering designer for the car? I didn't see that in the Diablo and every intake scoop had a purpose, the 348 and 355 had fake ft grills and to me was a lousy setback in aerodynamics if you think about it so you can say that it compromising function for form. And what's with Lambo looking like a UFO? what does a UFO look like? Well I guess it's out of this world but at least not mistaken for a Fiero, Vette, new type of Mustang, or kit car as I have heard over and over again when I had my 348. Ferraris are nice looking cars and I give it at least that but after seeing so many of them at the concorso I have other cars on top of the list that pleases me more. The more rare the more exotic, since the car is not for track, it doesn't need race car performance, just enough to do the job. Every car has it's purpose and the reason why I went for the Diablo was for the experience "the next level so to speak" it is the fastest car I've ever owned, the look can never be mistaken for another car or will blend in the crowd, heck I don't even worry about someone stealing my car and don't have to worry about stinkin timing belts I call "time bombs" or "rental payment dues" I can't stand dealing with car problems and with them sucking up money too often for services. I have to admit my Diablo has been the most reliable Italian car I've ever owned, and so far only oil changes and gas filling and it runs great and I don't have to worry about belts breaking or the major bank overhaul. When Ferrari builds a car with a timing chain and more horsepower I would be in line with the quickness for that. The only thing on the Diablo I hate is replacing the clutch so I hear but so far I've never replaced a clutch on any car that I have ever owned except the Fiat X1/9 that I bought used. Wouldn't you agree that the biggest upset in owning a high dollar exotic car is the money you have to put in it just to keep it running the way it's supposed to? In my opinion, expensive for what? building it to quick? rare? spending budget not there and have to make up for it by overcharging for what they really are? I don't know but I'm staying clear of exotic cars running on timing belts until they can design a car that can go 90K miles before a change. | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member Username: Fred Post Number: 854 Registered: 2-2001 |
Enzo didn't even care about the road cars. All he cared about was the racing team. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Intermediate Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 1427 Registered: 6-2002 |
I think Enzo would be pleased with the Enzo! | ||
| steve bnadini (Bandini)
New member Username: Bandini Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2003 |
I don't live on the internet so I can't check every few minutes here, some of you with mega posts need to get a life. Nothing wrong with styles evolving, just evolving well into something fresh and exciting, the models designed since '88 don't have it and are missing something. No, I don't think the passion ends with my Daytona, it stops in '94 with the 512m, another Enzo approved design. To say Ferrari had no concern for his road cars is ignorant, look at any 50s-60s-70s-80s Ferrari and you can tell the passion that was designed into it from Mr.Ferrari, and yes racing was his greatest passion. The majority here that have made their defensive cases own new models so yes they are offended by my remark, but many feel the same way I do but don't have the balls to speak up to the status-quo clique here. I am not saying the new cars totally suck but they are not the show stoppers of the Enzo years and don't compare. | ||
| Robert Faber (F129b)
Junior Member Username: F129b Post Number: 89 Registered: 8-2003 |
Bnadini? What are you smoking that would make you mis-type your name, save it to your profile and post that non-progressive, stuck in the 60's RETRO-yearning nonsense? Did you ever consider from looking at the world around you that styles just do evolve and change? Do you think that Ferrari could build cars with the same inefficient styles as yesterYEAR with the DOT regs., safety data parameters etc. etc. that they now have to comply with. What you should really say is that, TO YOU Ferrari's simply aren't as exciting as they used to be. You are entitled to live in the past forever if you like. Besides, I think Signore Ferrari would be very pleased to produce such potent and popularly desirable cars (as 355, 360,550/575) that allow for the F1 teams current mega-success. | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Intermediate Member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 2315 Registered: 12-2002 |
Maybe some of these guys with the big guns from that one post "disposed" of the poor guy | ||
| martin j weiner,M.D. (Mw575)
Intermediate Member Username: Mw575 Post Number: 1259 Registered: 5-2001 |
Has anyone disappeared after 3 posts?? One can only hope and pray! | ||
| Jeff B. (Miltonian)
Member Username: Miltonian Post Number: 640 Registered: 12-2002 |
"I thinka the clutch she is slipping."  | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2894 Registered: 10-2002 |
Steve Sorry I guess I'm wrong. I guess the contract he proposed to Ford giving them 90 percent control of of passenger Ferrari's as long as he kept 90 percent control of the Race cars meant he really cared about the street cars. "Luca and others are to blame, and whats with the increase in production,Ferrari would never allowed it, he felt a owning a Ferrari should be a dream like reaching for a star." The last street legal car Mr. Ferrari had any input on was the F40. This is what he said about that. "I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door seams are straight; but when he steps on the gas I want him to sh it his pants." The latest Ferrari street car that Luca produced 399 of doesn't have electric windows and the carbon fiber weave, as Allan has pointed out is wavey; but when you do press down it does move. Unlike my friend Lorenzo Bandini, who I doubt would want you to use his name as a user name, from what I remember of Mr. Ferrari I think he'd be very proud of the new street Ferrari that bears his name. | ||
| Dale W Spradling (Drtax)
Member Username: Drtax Post Number: 492 Registered: 4-2003 |
Ah, Joe, hit it, your riff... A little bit of the little ole band from Tejas to take to bed. Dale | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
Member Username: Solly Post Number: 645 Registered: 6-2001 |
I must disagree with the initial post. The 360 spider is one of the most beautiful cars ever made (after the Dino), echoes the iconic 250 LM, is a blast to drive and has been totally problem free for over the last 2 years. To anyone with better than 20/90 vision it looks nothing like a Supra. In fact I loved it so much I bought 2. HMM, let's look at some of the "wonderful" cars built during Enzo's life: 365 GTC-looks like a cockroach. 400/412- yawn. My father's 1974 Dodge Dart had more personality. Mondial-reviled by almost everyone Dino 308 GT4-now this looks like like an old Supra, but worse. 365 GT4 2+2: makes the mondial look like an Enzo. BTW, no one had to wait, reach for a star or be a movie star to buy a 400/412. They couldn't give them away. I am somehow missing your point. | ||
| Joe (Jts)
Junior Member Username: Jts Post Number: 180 Registered: 8-2003 |
lol - nice one Dale "...was rollin� down the road in some cold blue steel, I had a blues man in the back, and a beautician at the wheel." | ||
| Dale W Spradling (Drtax)
Member Username: Drtax Post Number: 489 Registered: 4-2003 |
Wow Steve, forget your meds today? Who knows what Mr. Ferrari would have or would not have thought about any cars today, much less the current Ferrari lineup? He certaintly earned the right to be as inconsistent as any diva, yes? For example, Enzo Ferrari is supposed to have said that it takes 12 cylinders to make a Ferrari. However, it is my understanding that he gave his blessing to the 288 GTO, which BTW many people consider to be one of the best road going Ferraris ever. The bottom line, though, is who cares? You obviously think that the food chain ended with Daytonas. That's fine. You are entitled to your opinion. And, I agree, Daytonas are great cars. However, I just as obviously think that the Maranellos are better cars because I just brought one. Will my Maranello run circles around your Daytona? Of course, I'd be disappointed in any company that didn't improve the breed in 30 years. I guess what really bugs me about your post is your apparent inability to dig great cars, regardless of the year or make. In fact, you sound just like the Harley idiots who think that it ain't a Harley, it ain't worth $hit. So go ahead and crawl into your little hole of snobbery. Go ahead and lift your little pinky while you sniff your brandy. While you lament about the good ole days, I'll be driving down the road with my New Yawk brim and my gold tooth displayed. We bad and we're nationwide. Dale | ||
| Rikky Alessi (Ralessi)
Member Username: Ralessi Post Number: 425 Registered: 5-2002 |
You criticize them for saying that they know what Enzo would think, then you turn around and say what you *know* Enzo would think? | ||
| steve bnadini (Bandini)
New member Username: Bandini Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2003 |
James, You act as if Enzo was your best bud and told you all, you wish, I am sure since you drove a few and maybe visted the factory and saw Enzo in the flesh once you think you are the end all to Enzos true thoughts and ideas, give me a break. Enzo did care about his street cars, he always had the last word and was involved in their design, weights, and dimensions, look at the differences in cars post and pre Enzo, if you can't tell the difference then as they say you wouldn't understand. So Ferrari makes cushy, comfy,Supra looking cars for big, fat, rich asses now in large numbers instead of limited raw sports racer types of the past and some get offended if everyone doesn't think they are great,lol. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Intermediate Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 1230 Registered: 10-2001 |
I understand Steve's point but I don't agree. Newer Ferraris lack the "in your face" design elements that the 308 and Testarossa really exemplified in their day. Lamborghini is way more 'out there' in body design. But the newer Ferrari body styles are no less brilliant if more subtle. The lines flow, and have very interesting symetery. The fact they don't slap you in the face does not mean they don't have a complex structure that is quite beautiful. I think the 360 in particular is underated by the general public. Before you knock the new designs, take some time to see them in the flesh. The first time I saw a 360 on the road I was amazed at the balance and beauty. If you want the UFO type car, buy a Lamborghini. They have taken the more "exotic" body style route that IMHO compromises function for form. Still cool, but in a different way. | ||
| Gary Brauch (Gary_brauch)
New member Username: Gary_brauch Post Number: 36 Registered: 10-2003 |
Steve - Took some guts to post your thoughts. Really can't agree with you, but don't mind you expressing your opinion. I'm an older guy, owned sports cars and raced in SCCA competition all my life, could afford a Ferrari since about 1980, and the first one that really brought out my wallet was the 360. I love the looks, love that it is very drivable in every-day use, love the performance. Just goes to show, not everyone is going to agree on what makes a great car, and I think Ferrari's sales success clearly puts you in the minority. Or did you write your post not from conviction but with the intention of stirring the pot? | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2890 Registered: 10-2002 |
When I see him I'll tell him where to find you. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Intermediate Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 1426 Registered: 6-2002 |
I disagree on a few points, the 348 is not boring and the 355 does not look like a Fiero. And Steve "cough cough", if your trying to say i bought my cars as status symbols, get off the crack. If that were the case, i be haulin around in a Bentley Azure. | ||
| peter brinzey (Ferraripete)
Junior Member Username: Ferraripete Post Number: 132 Registered: 11-2002 |
james...you mentioned that enzo never even drove ferraris. neither did luigi chinetti senior...he drove and loved his cadilacs! i really was all about the racing! james your mention of driving a 275 in the snow reminds me of when my brother and i were very young and were always getting into trouble. one winter we hooligans were lobbing snow balls at cars as they came by. my brother tossed one at a car as it came up the road...i was a rosso rubino daytona. well we ran like hell and i must say that car did real well in the snow!! when he caught us he was mad but let us of the hook!! it was coco!!!! hope he is not on this chat!!!!! | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2888 Registered: 10-2002 |
The only thing you should be sorry for is having no fuc king idea about what Mr Ferrari thought or would have done. Mr. Ferrari never cared about the street cars. He was happy to have the street car division called FORD/Ferrari as long as he had control over the racing cars. He told Ford they could put his name on anything as long as he could deceide where his cars raced. The Deuce (Henry 2) told him no, Mr. Ferrari backed out BUT soon recontacted Henry and agreed. Henry replied "Not interested" Mr. Ferrari didn't even drive his street cars. In the 60ies few did. Ever drive a 275GTB in the snow? I have. Even with the booster fan I installed you had to wipe the windshield by hand as the defogger didn't work. If Mr. Ferrari hadn't sold out to FIAT and given them carte blanche to build what they wanted there would be no Ferrari today. The Bertone 308 was built while he was alive. Rather have that than a 360? | ||
| peter brinzey (Ferraripete)
Junior Member Username: Ferraripete Post Number: 131 Registered: 11-2002 |
i agree w/ steve on some points and some of the comments of the other posters are insightfull also. what makes some of us have the feeling we do about new ferraris? is it lack of exclusivity? the profile of the buyer changing (has it ?)? the styling...seems cars in search of the perfect coefficient of drag will all eventually look like a supra! is it just that luca wants to build "lots o cars"?? i do not want to speak badly of the newer breed, but i do have some trouble getting excited w/ the new. i have the same problem w/ the porsche 996/boxter...so it's not just ferraris. hope i have not offended, i would love to hear from others. pcb | ||
| Dan Gordon (Ferruccio)
Member Username: Ferruccio Post Number: 283 Registered: 2-2003 |
The fact is NEW Ferrari is trying to make a car that is practical and has the performance of a race car. IN THAT ORDER! They used to look at performance first then try to make it livable. Enzo wanted to his cars to go around a track faster than any other car. PERIOD. | ||
| Will 575 (Willh)
Member Username: Willh Post Number: 340 Registered: 3-2003 |
"make cars more liveable/driveable for all those with money to want them." I think steve's main criticism goes to styling, but you also complain about "passion." I love the styling of the cars you criticize, but I also thought this writer's view was interesting: "... so for years now Ferraris have remained Spartan in terms of their trim, even though they had luxurious touches like the use of top quality leather .... But by the early 90s this way of conceiving cars seemed rather limited. Owning a Ferrari must give all-round pleasure and so any decision to limit comfort, usability and interior space excessively no longer made sense. The same went for colours. The enormous success of Ferrari cars over the past decade has shown that in their hearts customers really wanted models like the 456 GT and 550 Maranello (and today's 575M Maranello), or the F355 and, later, 360 Modena eight-cylinder models. Cars that customers could personalise by choosing from a wide range of accessories .... Ten years on, this progressive mutation has now given way to a certain feeling of nostalgia. Nostalgia for a Ferrari with no frills ...." | ||
| Joe (Jts)
Junior Member Username: Jts Post Number: 178 Registered: 8-2003 |
Slight temporary tangent here: Terry, have you seen this? http://www.ferraris-online.com/cars/12681/12681a.html Unreal! | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 840 Registered: 4-2002 |
Steve.... Pete hits the nail on the head. Enzo Ferrari couldnt care one hoot what his customers thought of him or the street cars as long as they kept paying nutty prices for them. Enzo was well known to consider the entire street car model line as a necessary evil that he tolerated only as a means of raising the funds to go racing. If he could have raced without producing street cars at all, he would have. Enzo didnt view the production of street cars as an opportunity to demonstrate his firms engineering excellence or automotive passion.... he viewed it as an opportunity to exploit stupid rich people for as much money as was humanly possible! Enzo sold that side of the business to FIAT basically so he didnt have to devote so much time to managing it. He was tired of worrying about stability and cash-flow issues driven by the production car side of the business and was thankful to throw the whole thing on Agnellis lap. I too prefer the older cars. The newer cars just dont ignite the passion in me. That said, it doesnt mean I think the newer cars are junk or that their lack of desirability in my view has anything to do with Enzo not being alive. Ive read a couple of pretty good biographies of Enzo. He appears to have been a man with many vices and virtues. He also seems to have been a serious prick. He was a hardcore manipulative egotistical Italian womanizer who would walk all over you in a heartbeat if he thought it would help Ferrari win a race. Who cares what he thought of the street cars? All of the great old sportscar companies have prostituted themselves in recent times. Porsche is building SUVs fer crying out loud! | ||
| john (Johnwto)
Junior Member Username: Johnwto Post Number: 132 Registered: 6-2002 |
psk WTF are you talking about??????????? you want SLOWER ferrari's ?! | ||
| Joe (Jts)
Junior Member Username: Jts Post Number: 177 Registered: 8-2003 |
Pete, Very interesting food for thought. Thanks for the really good insight. (but admit it - when you see a 550/575 your heart rate goes up and your palms get sweaty! ) | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Intermediate Member Username: Psk Post Number: 1063 Registered: 11-2002 |
Joe, While I admire the cars, I have a problem with building a road car that impractical. Okay you can stop laughing now , by this I mean that the 550/575 and new Scagletti are simply to fast to enjoy on the road. Designing a car that does not come into its sweet spot until you are travelling at 3 digit speeds is IMO stupid. They are also way to big and impractical from a space point of view. They are massive cars (strange for a performance car in the first place) and only fit 2 people ... I cannot understand that. A 250SWB of GTO in comparison are baby/toy cars. I actually love the 456 because it is practical and makes more sense. The 360 on the other hand is a much leaner machine and while TOO fast IMO for the road it is a lighter (I think) and more nimble car that would be more enjoyable to drive at subsonic speeds Ferraris should IMO build road cars that top out at 160 say mph, more like Lotus. It should also build a range of track editions that are real fast ... like Ferrari used to. Supercars are stupid ... and you do not need to go that fast to have fun Why can't Ferrari have the maturity to build a 3 litre v12 front engined car instead of these massive engined dinosaurs that prove nothing other than Ferrari can build a powerful large capacity engine. Der ... anybody can do that! Pete | ||
| rob ferretti (Robiferretti)
Member Username: Robiferretti Post Number: 405 Registered: 4-2002 |
hey steve, thanks for coming out, show us some sketchs of what you have in mind? I am really curious to see what a man as critical as you can come up with that rivals the styling I find as beautiful. But if you are not as inclined at art as you are with criticism, why dont you just tell us what cars you think look good? | ||
| Joe (Jts)
Junior Member Username: Jts Post Number: 176 Registered: 8-2003 |
Pete, Interesting point. But don't you think the 550/575 is a necessary member of the Ferrari family? i.e. 12 cyl., front engine, grand touring coupe? | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Intermediate Member Username: Psk Post Number: 1062 Registered: 11-2002 |
Steve, You are wrong regarding:
Enzo Ferrari made cars to keep the money flowing for his racing. He could not give a flying **** for his customers ... and he built this suposed exclusivity by treating his customers this bad. Reading a few biography's talks very clearly about this ... Ferrari has changed direction and started building better quality cars so that they can actually be driven. This is Luca's fault, and this has enabled the brand to expand. While I think the 550/575, new Scagletti and the Enzo are not what Ferrari should be building, I think the 360 is perfect, as it has returned Ferrari to building cars that can be raced in the weekends ... something that stopped when FIAT took over (ie. the Testarossa was just a supercar for street work). Times change Steve, Ferrari has separated from the Ferrari racing team, thus after FIAT left it to struggle along, Luca has finally turned it around to making useable road cars for the first time. I personally think Enzo would not even care what is happening to the road cars, but be extremely proud of his racing team ... but upset that they have bent over for sponsorship and changed the correct racing red to Malboros colours  . This direction change has put the survival of the Ferrari racing team in the same position as all other racing teams, where before it survived on Enzo's passion ... now simply on sponsorship and marketing by Ferrari road cars. It now is just as vunerable as any other racing team ... Pete | ||
| john (Johnwto)
Junior Member Username: Johnwto Post Number: 131 Registered: 6-2002 |
if my 360 "looks like a Supra totally un-inspiring boring design" how come when i drive people flip out? how come i can't get through a day without someone talking to me at a stop light or a parking lot?? i dunno maybe it's MY good looks and not the car ! | ||
| Warren Balla (West662)
Junior Member Username: West662 Post Number: 101 Registered: 8-2003 |
Thanks for the obvious post. No dount Ferrari isnt the same now that Enzo is gone. He was perhaps the most powerful and influencial person in racing EVER. Ofcoarse things are going to change with his demise. But to say that all of these new Ferrari's are boring? and hideous? GIVE ME A BREAK! First, take a look at Pete Boccarossa's Ferrari on this forum (its one of the nicest I've ever seen). I mean, I Love Ferrari, but I will still respect the opinions of others, even if they are 'anti-Ferrari', ONLY if they give credit where credit is due. When Enzo was alive, the F40 was created, one of the highest perfance cars to date at the time. A car like the F40 is so timeless. Some people believe Ferrari will never produce a better car. I respect that. But take a look at the F50. At it's release, again, was considered one of the worlds highest performance vehicles (not talkin just speed, Track too). And now, the creation of the Enzo. Considered the worlds most technologically advanced car! Breathtakeing performance. Ferrari engineers made a brave step to design a car so unique. A design like that is very risky. But they pulled it off! Without Enzo to oversee the project. So, like I said. State what you want about Ferrari, but give them credit where credit is due. I think they deserve it! P.S. What you said about Ferrari producing too many numbers now, I see where your coming from on that one. | ||
| RS Biomedical (Rsbiomedical)
Junior Member Username: Rsbiomedical Post Number: 68 Registered: 9-2001 |
If Enzo made cars solely out of passion your 365 GTB/4 would never have existed and that would be a shame. I'm sure when 60's era Ferrari enthusiast saw the Corvette style headlights they made comments like your own. Things change, that�s the way it is. OK you trolled, we bit, now cut the line and make post #3 a substantive one. | ||
| steve bnadini (Bandini)
New member Username: Bandini Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2003 |
If you need to look closer or harder it misses the point doesn't it? A Ferrari should grab you immediately. My words are not harsh, just reality, I am in a local Ferrari club and many share the same opinion. Ferrari is not the same company with Luca, he's too corporate money motivated,lets expand the brand and increase production- make cars more liveable/driveable for all those with money to want them. Mr.Ferrari had the opposite mindset, he made his cars for the passion not the bottom line of his company, I just don't like the direction ferrari has taken. | ||
| Rijk Rietveld (Rijk365gtb4)
Member Username: Rijk365gtb4 Post Number: 315 Registered: 1-2002 |
Steve Look under "Vintage", rather than "General Ferrari discussion". It will make you feel better. Please give us some info about your car under "Daytona owners only". Rijk | ||
| Joe (Jts)
Junior Member Username: Jts Post Number: 171 Registered: 8-2003 |
I was tempted to think Mr. Green had returned.....but probably not. Not incoherent enough. Hey how about the blue on that 355 - how awesome is that? | ||
| Bruce Wellington (Bws88tr)
Advanced Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 3406 Registered: 4-2002 |
PRETTY HARSH WORDS ON HIS FIRST POST, WOULDNT YOU SAY??? | ||
| Dave (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 629 Registered: 4-2001 |
I fart in your general direction... | ||
| Joe (Jts)
Junior Member Username: Jts Post Number: 170 Registered: 8-2003 |
Wow Steve - you're a tough customer. The 550/575 is magnificent! The 355 is nothing to shake a stick at either. Look again: | ||
| 1987 Jerry (Slag_328gts)
Member Username: Slag_328gts Post Number: 254 Registered: 9-2003 |
And I am not in love with the 365gtb/4. So what is your point? To each his own. Never will understand people who like to insult others for no reason. Some people here love their cars (others like them as their status symbols *Cough Cough Allen Cough Cough* - Why come and insult them right off the bat? | ||
| martin j weiner,M.D. (Mw575)
Intermediate Member Username: Mw575 Post Number: 1258 Registered: 5-2001 |
Steve, Hell of an insulting post for post #1.!! I guess all of us with those listed "BORING" cars lack good taste which you have. Remember,what constitutes "good looks" is purely subjective and has nothing to do with YOUR REALITY. I am going straight out to the garage and set fire to my ugly grigio titanio 575. | ||
| Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Member Username: Tbakowsky Post Number: 733 Registered: 9-2002 |
I agree to a point. But I would not go as far as to call the cars "hideous" The cars now are built for a different market. People now want the best of both worlds which is very hard to do with a performance/sports car. They want speed and "indycar sounding" engines,but they want honda reliablity and mantinance. This as you know is not possiable. As for the 550 looking boring...have another look at that car...real careful like and then get back to us. The designs from Ferrari are very good. You have to also realize that veichal designs are getting better and better from most car makers. Just look at the designs Nissan is coming out with. For a company now a days to make a car that can still stand out among the best of larger automakers, then that tells alot about the design of the car. | ||
| steve bnadini (Bandini)
New member Username: Bandini Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2003 |
I am sorry but Ferrari is and never will be the same since Enzo passed, every new car model introduced since the late 80's when he passed does not have the same passion. 348- boring computer made car 355- Nice performance but looks like a Fiero/348 550- Booring looking conservative luxury car 360-looks like a Supra totally un-inspiring boring design and that front end is hideous Enzo would not have made these cars the same way, to those I have offended face it, it's reality. Luca and others are to blame, and whats with the increase in production, Ferrari would never allowed it, he felt a owning a Ferrari should be a dream like reaching for a star. |