| Author | Message | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Junior Member Username: Doody Post Number: 189 Registered: 11-2001 |
fyi - at $225.4K the car didn't clear its reserve. the market is softening, but the sellers (especially on EBay) are taking quite a while to get the messages. doody | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 688 Registered: 8-2001 |
Plastic things in the engine? | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 267 Registered: 3-2002 |
the 360 is very nice..love the rims..love the exterior..hate those plastic things in the engine...and sorry guys but i hate the daytona seats..its almost putrid to me..dont they have the 360 with a carbon fiber package? | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 350 Registered: 2-2001 |
Trust me, YOU DONT Ernesto | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 872 Registered: 9-2001 |
Ernesto, how would you know as you have never seen my car nor are any badges visible from the photograph in my profile ? Maybe I do, maybe I don't ? | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 349 Registered: 2-2001 |
I don't see any Dino badges on your 348, Frank. As the person sermonizing Enzo's philosophy on Ferrari nomenclature, I would imagine you would be the first to install these on your Dino. Interesting that I don't find any... Ernesto | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 870 Registered: 9-2001 |
Tim, Dino badges would look great on an F40. I'm sure you would get even more comments than you do now. I have seen U.S. spec NSXs that have had the Acura badges changed to Honda like they are in the rest of the world. It looks cool IMHO. | ||
| Richard Stephens (Dino2400)
Junior Member Username: Dino2400 Post Number: 74 Registered: 10-2001 |
sure. but there isn't anything particularly wrong with drum brakes for a street car, you know. Disc brakes fade less on the track but drums can stop just as good as discs. There were gigantic 5000lb+ american cars of the 60s wth drum brakes that had stopping distances less than today's Miata. If Ferrari still made raw sports cars like Enzo did, e.g. if the modern Ferrari was more like Morgan than BMW, I'd be even more attracted to them. But then I'm weird like that. I rather have a reproduction of an old car than a "real" modern model. I'd prefer a Beck spyder to a 2002 911, a D-type repro/copy than a brand new X-type, a cobra knockoff to the latest shelby mutang. I don't want/need fuel injection, ABS, airbags, climate control, traction control, power seats and windows, CD players, etc. in my automobile! | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 296 Registered: 2-2001 |
Enzo wanted this..., Enzo liked that..., sometimes I think some people just buy the car because of the man. Personally, I bought the car for what it is. If everything would have been as Enzo wanted it to be, we all would be driving Ferraris with drum brakes, and IMHO that it is just plain stupid. We all have read the countless stories about drivers, engineers, etc. fighting Enzo at its own game and ultimately winning his approval. The man had a vision, but he needed a lot of help to see it through. Enzo created cars with a great lineage, probably the most recognizable and imitated car manufacturer in the history of Automobilism but he wasn't always right. This bickering about this car been more a Ferrari than the next is simply ill founded (sometimes even childish). Specially when most of the arguments are based on opinions or comments probably taken out of context, or that (as most people that have followed the trajectory of the company know) had changed over time. So that we can all be happy, I think we should pick the imperfection (somebody else's obsession) we like the best on a Ferrari, find the model that best illustrates it, and purchase the darn thing. Then, perhaps we will still care about what Enzo liked or disliked then. | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Junior Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 242 Registered: 3-2002 |
Tim, Black Barts has badges, I am assuming they will be at FCA/LA they usually are at FCA meets. If not we can track them down through Forza or Cavallino, Chris | ||
| Tim Gendreau (Tim)
Junior Member Username: Tim Post Number: 82 Registered: 3-2002 |
Anyone know where I can get "Dino" badges for my F40? Ferrari, Dino, Fiat, 4 cyl, 8 cyl, 10 cyl, 12 cyl, dont matter, I love them all. | ||
| Richard Stephens (Dino2400)
Junior Member Username: Dino2400 Post Number: 73 Registered: 10-2001 |
I'm sure most of you know this story, but... Ferrari had been using a V6 engine called "Dino" since the 50s in various displacements for racing. When they still wanted to use it for Formula 2 in '66/67 they needed a way past the new rule that the engine must be used in 500 production vehicles. Ferrari could not possibly build that number of cars in those days so Enzo approached Fiat and they agreed to make the engines. Pininfarina designed a spyder and Bertone a coupe to use this engine in 2.0 form. Pininfarina also had the design for what would become the 206/246GT (many of you have surely seen the Pininfarina show car). Ferrari wanted to create a seperate line of cars called simply "Dino" to sell these 3 models. But Fiat needed a high end car to replace their aging 2300 coupe and wanted to associate their name with this famous racing engine and so they decided to badge their cars Fiat Dino. Ferrari stuck with just Dino for the V6 until the 70s as mentioned. It might have been nice had a company called Dino been born to produce these cars. If it had lasted to this day, perhaps there would be racing bred sports car coming out of Maranello and selling in the $50-100k range (ok, they have Maserati to do that now I guess), as a kind of "budget Ferrari". Sure, it wouldn't be as good as a Ferrari, but many of us would prefer it to a Porsche or BMW, you know. Something a bit more mass-produced than a Ferrari, but with a lot of the same characteristics and engine technology. Something just like the Fiat Dinos and Dino 206/246 were. I drive a '72 2400 Dino Fiat Coupe as my daily driver. I'm just not interested in buying a BMW or Benz or Lexus or Porsche. I'd rather drive my 30 year old car. I will continue to do so indefinitely. It would be nice though if I could get a new 2+2 car with the sound and soul of a Ferrari for something much less than $200k. In my dream world, Fiat would dump Fiat auto to GM. Then reconstruct Fiat Spa to have Ferrari, Maserati, and a new line called...Dino! Build sports sedans and spiders using V6 and V8 engines derived from Ferrari. Yes, Maserati is doing this to some extent but Dino would be even less exotic - something more in the fun daily driver realm and the $40-80k price range and perhaps more "raw" than "luxury". America needs a car like that. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Junior Member Username: Manu Post Number: 221 Registered: 2-2002 |
Willis, great news to see how competitive the 550 Maranello is at Le Mans... Forza Ferrari!!! BTW - is anyone going to Le Mans this year? | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Junior Member Username: Manu Post Number: 220 Registered: 2-2002 |
Willis, great news to see how competitive the 550 Maranello is at Le Mans.. Forza Ferrari | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Junior Member Username: Manu Post Number: 219 Registered: 2-2002 |
Jack, I totally agree with you - the V12 Ferrari grand prix engine supposedly made the greatest EVER sound of any engine anywhere. Its a layout Ferrari used for years and years and used to be the cornerstone of our competitive success. The FIA are really annoying sometimes. P.S. I have read in a few reviews, that the new Ferrari 575MM, is meant to be good enough to approach perfection - they think its essentially the best Ferrari of recent times and has improved on all the areas where the 550 Maranello was deficient..... | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 121 Registered: 2-2001 |
According to everything I've read, the "Dino" name was to be succeeded by the then-recently Lardi-free and Ferrari-infused first handle of the second son of Enzo. Unfortunately, Pontiac had a two-seat model of similar moniker at this time and fear around Fiat was that this might be a cause for some confusion in the marketplace. And so other names were considered for the V-8. "Larry" and "Timmy" are rumored to be a pair of favorites that were proposed. Consumer research (the cornerstone of Ferrari Marketing) revealed that the above-MSRP-paying US market suckers would have none of it. Even if fender shields were included at no cost. Ultimately, "Ferrari" was selected. And here we are disussing it (as Enzo certainly would have wished). | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 259 Registered: 3-2002 |
Manu, it still bugs me that the FIA mandated 10-cylinder engines for F1. Nothing was more awesome at the track than hearing the Ferrari V-12s screaming by. Literally, ear shattering! Also, I hardly think it's a crime that you prefer one engine configuration to another. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 684 Registered: 8-2001 |
There are 3 360GTs at Le Mans also. Interesting part was that the Prodrive 550 was quicker than the next best GTS car by 3 seconds! | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2580 Registered: 2-2001 |
Don't worry, us 8 cylinder guys will wait up for you after the first turn. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Junior Member Username: Manu Post Number: 218 Registered: 2-2002 |
I pretty much concur with what Frank has written about Dino VS Ferrari issue. Many people (me among them) think a 'PROPER' Ferrari has 12 Cylinders. This V12 or 12Boxer configuration is where Ferrari made its name in the sports car racing of the 1960s (F1 racing of 1970s).... People tend to think that Ferrari made its reputation in F1 - true - but it was in Sports car racing (Le Mans etc) with the 12s that Ferrari REALLY became world famous in the glorious 1960s. The famous road races of the 1950's (Mille Miglia) played a huge role in making Ferrari world famous - and these races were typically won with 12 Cylinder cars. The most 'special' Ferraris are IMO the 12's. 550, TR, 275... BB it doesn't matter as long as it has a 12 - the location doesn't matter to me - I suppose traditionalist prefer front - thats up to you etc... I exclude from this opinion the specials like the GTO/F40 etc - they're homologation specials or race cars - fabulous. On an interesting aside - just 2 years ago Ferrari was considering a return to the V12 layout for Formula 1 - this layout was promptly banned by the FIA because they feared for escalating costs and an unfair advantage Ferrari held in its expertise of the layout. For the first time in years Ferrari is back at Le Mans with a production based model this year - the 550 Maranello GTO (from Prodrive) - a V12. PLEASE - don't start flaming me - I LOVE - and I mean LOVE the Ferrari V8s - i just love the V12's that little bit more.  Manu | ||
| martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
Member Username: Mw360 Post Number: 387 Registered: 5-2001 |
I must stop lusting for a "ford vanquish"! Give it a rest,Frank!!!!!!! | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 861 Registered: 9-2001 |
While Enzo never let up during his life that all Ferraris must have a V12, he did concede that a mid engined car could be a Ferrari. But, he only did that after the front engined Ferrari F1 cars couldn't win against the mid engined cars of other teams. Even when Ferrari was winning F1 races with its 4 cylinder F1 car in the 1950s, Enzo hated the car per all the press at the time. Even though the 4s were winning, he wanted his engineers to develope a winning V12, which they later did ! As far as the new V10 Fi cars, i don't think Enzo would have dropped the V12 design so easily had he still been alive. Of course none of this matters as Enzo has taken the eternal celestrial dirt nap and Ferrrai is now just anothet division of Fiat which sole purpose is to earn a profit. My earlier comments were just what I understand about what Enzo liked and wanted road cars that beared his name to be, i.e. front engined V12s. The fact that technology has proven that the mid engined design is faster around a race track is something that Enzo didn't care about during his life. Enzo only tolerated selling road cars to finance his F1 race team. After Fiat took over the road car production in the 1960s, Enzo stayed out of the design and production of road cars entirely per articles I have read. In any event, Ferrari is now only another company making sports cars which we all love. It is no longer the hand made exotic it once was. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 269 Registered: 12-2001 |
Like a good lawyer, or mideast "negotiator", you have the ability to turn the issue backwards. The question is not why "everyone" has a problem with the Dino name; it was, at least as i put it, why you persist in referring to Ferraris, other than V-12 front engined cars, as Dinos, when they are not. | ||
| acw (Acw)
New member Username: Acw Post Number: 21 Registered: 2-2002 |
"As for the F50, it is a V12 the last I heard" Yeah but the engine is not in front. So technically, according to your point of view, it is not a Ferrari. (: I certainly enjoy my Dino. But I prefer to call it a "Fiat de luxe" ACW | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 859 Registered: 9-2001 |
I suppose the F40 should be considered a Dino. If Fiat would have called it the Dino F40, maybe the name Dino would command more respect ! As for the F50, it is a V12 the last I heard. All current F1 cars are V10s including those raced by Fiat/Ferrari. Why does everyone dislike the name "Dino" ? Just because a V8 car is called a Dino doesn't mean it is a lesser car ! Enzo loved his brother Dino so much that he named one of his own sons Dino. He allowed Fiat to use that name with the 206, 246 and 308GT4 as a means of honoring his late son Dino. How much more respect could Enzo have shown for that name. So don't get so bent out of shape because you own a Dino V8 powered Fiat. I wish Fiat would bring back the Dino brand. But , from the way it sounds Americans won't buy a Dino badged car just like FNA told Ferrari regarding the 308GT4,even though it was the same car later badged as a Ferrari. So it is the corporate identity that us Americans love, not the car itself. How stupid is that ? Us Americans will pay over MSRP for a Dino 360 because it is badged a Ferrrai though. Enjoy your car. I love mine. | ||
| acw (Acw)
New member Username: Acw Post Number: 20 Registered: 2-2002 |
"It was around that time that Enzo commented, that "...cars bearing his name would all be front engined V12s..." So because of one comment he made, all v8 models should technically be branded "dino". So what brand should be used for F-40 / F-50 and F1 cars? ACW | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 268 Registered: 12-2001 |
So, by your lights, we are all, post-69, anyway, driving FIATs, and even a berlinetta boxer does not deserve the prancing horse badge. And, the newest megacar, with a midengine 12, is in the same boat. This becomes a sort of strict "construction" argument of the worst kind (eg the right to bear arms may be limited to flintlock weapons). I agree that a rose by any other name may still be a Ford Jaguar, but if we take your approach, i suppose we need only refer to a few multinational conglomerates, and chuck brand names altogether ( unless the late departed founder expressed other sentiments; are the Mouseketeers really the Hitler Youth in disguise?) | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 858 Registered: 9-2001 |
One more time. I don't "dislike" the 360, I just don't care for the way the front end looks. And, I don't think any car is worth that much more than MSRP, especially a production model such as the 360. As for the Dino vs. Ferrarri issue:In the mid 1960s, when the Ford offer to buy Ferrari fell through, Enzo sold the road car production to Fiat who promptly produced the Dino 206. All road going Ferraris from that point on are really Fiats with a Ferrari drivetrain. It was around that time that Enzo commented, that "...cars bearing his name would all be front engined V12s..." Period. V12s because he liked them and front engined because "...a horse always pulls a wagon, a horse never pushes a wagon..." At that time it was Ferrari's full intention to call ALL non-V12 cars Dinos and V12 cars Ferrrais. It was only when their largest market, the U.S.A., refused to buy Dino badged 308GT4s, that FNA had them rebadged Ferrari so they would sell. Ferrari had wanted to bring back the Dino name for the 348 and later V8s but were convinced not to by FNA. So, if it were up to Ferrari a 360 would be called a Dino. The 348, 355 and 360 are only badged as a Ferrari because of FNA convincing Ferrrai that it couldn't sell Dinos to Americans. These facts are all true and can be verified with just a little research. Look it up yourself if you don't believe me. Hey , I like the Dino name and love my Dino 348 Spider. | ||
| Dave Penhale (Dapper)
New member Username: Dapper Post Number: 14 Registered: 4-2002 |
Look at VIN numbers Frank, that'll tell you whats a Dino and what isn't, as far as I'm aware there haven't been too many since about 1977! What makes me laugh is Franks view of a REAL ferrari, clearly they are great with 12 cyls if you can afford them, no argument there, but he thinks that 12 cyl should be in the FRONT???? and of V config not flat????? The 360 is a superb looking car (as are 308/328/348 and 355), and as a spider...yes please thanks very very much! Having said that Black definitely doesn't get my vote, moreover the featured cars interior would be a 'walk away' for me at any price...I guess as the old adage goes 'taste is something you just can't buy'. Colour of cars is a funny old game. In Europe White is a bit of a no no, e.g. a white 996 or 993 Porsche just will not sell in the UK! Whereas in California white supercars are understandably very popular. Red has gone very OUT for Porsches in UK (too 80's) but for Ferraris its never been (and hopefully never will be) a problem. The uk dealers are instilling a rediculous situation where new car buyers are feeling driven to opting for SILVER. If it isn't silver as a Eurobox, you seem to get offered less on a trade in, how crass is that. | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 120 Registered: 2-2001 |
Yep, Frank seems to rarely miss an opportnity to go Craig Mako on the 360. I wouldn't mind having one, though. | ||
| martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
Member Username: Mw360 Post Number: 386 Registered: 5-2001 |
There goes Frank again,and again and again!!!!!! | ||
| z. b. (Cheeseman)
New member Username: Cheeseman Post Number: 13 Registered: 4-2002 |
real ferraris only have ten cylinders | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 267 Registered: 12-2001 |
The 360 spider looks best, to my eyes, in black. I also like the cuio interior (the ad claims its tan, but it looks more like the naturale). As to shiny wheels and killer sound, to each his own. Since US spiders are selling for more than the current price on this car, it should sell. Frank, just out of curiousity, do you persist in referring to non-12 F cars as Dinos simply as a putdown or through sheer ignorance? I've had many F 12's and don't pretend that the 8 cyl. cars are a lesser beast. Let's see, the Dino was originally a six, wasn't it? And when it was replaced by the 308gt4, it was still a dino, but by the time the pininfarina bodied 308 surfaced, it became a ferrari, that was what, 1977 or so? And there were some great Ferrari racing cars with (god forbid) 4 cyl. engines. Were those all "Dinos"? Correct me if i am wrong.Or is it just a devotion to what "enzo" intended? If so, you probably wouldn't even be driving one of his cars since he could have cared less about us proles. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Junior Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 88 Registered: 1-2002 |
Does anyone see a problem with having chrome air boxes? Seems like using a material that insulates heat where you would want the coolest possible intake temps is somewhat counter productive. Isn't it? Beautiful car, but definatily outfitted with form in mind before function. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 877 Registered: 6-2001 |
Jeez frank, you really dont like the looks of the 360. | ||
| Erick Gravel (Erickg)
New member Username: Erickg Post Number: 24 Registered: 2-2002 |
$9,800 for those wheels? haha that guy either got ripped off or he is trying to rip people off. those wheels can be had for $2600 with tires. 3 piece might be a little more but no 10k Dont you just love those inflated prices | ||
| TAKO (Tako)
New member Username: Tako Post Number: 19 Registered: 4-2002 |
I want this stereo and these speakers on mine....... | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2061 Registered: 5-2001 |
LOL, Frank you always crack me up  | ||
| Marcus Mayeux (Mmayeux73)
Junior Member Username: Mmayeux73 Post Number: 127 Registered: 4-2002 |
Frank...it is a 360 spyder. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 857 Registered: 9-2001 |
$225K for a Dino ? No way is it worth that much. Even at MSRP the car is overpriced. For that kind of money one can get a proper front engined V12 Ferrari !! | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Junior Member Username: Doody Post Number: 176 Registered: 11-2001 |
not so sure it'll go at 225 for starters. it'll be interesting to watch. doody. | ||
| Scott A. B. Collins (Scott)
Junior Member Username: Scott Post Number: 53 Registered: 6-2001 |
I think those chrome airbox covers are from RM racing, which cost about 1K--they state in the add that they are worth several thousand dollars--what a joke (though they look nice). | ||
| Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
New member Username: Ronsupercar Post Number: 15 Registered: 5-2002 |
Black spyder with those 19" rims and daytona style seats.. This car is HOT!!!! | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 676 Registered: 8-2001 |
I like the wheels. | ||
| Marcus Mayeux (Mmayeux73)
Junior Member Username: Mmayeux73 Post Number: 124 Registered: 4-2002 |
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