| Author |
Message |
magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 3209
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 9:21 am: | |
Jay, I think that covers it. Thanks |
Dave Trbizan (Davidt)
New member
Username: Davidt
Post Number: 29
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 8:59 pm: | |
If you want something for your office. I have a friend who has a 308 engine with all covers, sitting on a stand using 512 BB rim as a base. Really a nice looking unit. It could be had for around $2500, if memory serves. |
J. Grande (Jay)
Member
Username: Jay
Post Number: 594
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 7:59 am: | |
The engines were built by Fiat, in Fiats plant. In 1965 they were given 2 years to build a minimum of 500 engines and have them installed in a production car. At first they were going to put this engine in the newly developed Fiat 124 sport spider, but then changed the plan to building a new car altogether, the Fiat Dino. Production problems were eased by sub -contracting the manufacture as well as the styling of the Fiat Dino Spider to Pininfarina. The coupe (Bertone) was made at Fiat. |
J. Grande (Jay)
Member
Username: Jay
Post Number: 593
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 7:49 am: | |
Okay, I just looked it up in the book "Ferrari Dino" by Anthony Curtis.
The 1967 Ferrari Dino GT (Turin show) was "watercooled light alloy V6 engine...having been extensively redesigned by Ferrari engineer Franco Rocchi and further modified for ease of production by Aurelio Lampredi, formerly of Ferrari, but then working for Fiat."
The First 206 Fiat Dino "Fiat's version of this power unit was said to develop no more than 160bhp, casting doubt on Ferrari's claim of 180bhp for his variant, since it was identical in every respect to its rival except for carburetter settings."
"Fiat and Ferrari collaborated to introduce an enlarged version of their engine , raising capacity to 2 418cc. To cut costs and simplify production, cast iron was at the same time substituted for light alloy as the cylinder block material." |
william speer (Wspeer)
New member
Username: Wspeer
Post Number: 24
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 12:42 am: | |
yes, but there is a differnece between the engine fitted to the ferrari dino and the fiat dino. not only horsepower but also in the composition. i do not have the dino book in front of me, but there is a clear difference. |
magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 3195
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 12:22 am: | |
Willam, With further research I think you will find that the first 246 Dino had a Fiat V/6 dohc engine. |
william speer (Wspeer)
New member
Username: Wspeer
Post Number: 21
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 04, 2002 - 11:55 pm: | |
ferrari made the dino 246 engines and fiat made the fiat dino engines. although they were the same design, the materials used were different as well as the tuning. naturally, the ferrari dino produced more bhp. |
magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 3192
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Friday, October 04, 2002 - 11:02 pm: | |
Bruno, You don't have to bow, I read it somewhere sometime ago. That's what the forum is about to question if you disagree and then the correct answer will eventually surface. Henry it is my understanding that the engine was Fiat. Were you thinking of the oil sump maybe? Ferrari did provide the oil sump,transmission and the drive axles. |
J. Grande (Jay)
Member
Username: Jay
Post Number: 591
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, October 04, 2002 - 8:55 pm: | |
I knew it was the same engine, I just thought that it used belts, not chains. You can get a Fiat Dino Coupe with the 2.0 engine very cheap (under $10K for the whole car). The 2.4 is a bit harder to find but they are out there. A guy in Toronto junked 2 of them about a year ago. |
Henryk (Henryk)
Member
Username: Henryk
Post Number: 300
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Friday, October 04, 2002 - 8:35 pm: | |
Magoo: I had a 246 Dino. It had a cast iron block, with aluminum heads. I know that Fiat made the block, but I thought that Ferrari made the heads. Am I wrong? |
Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 608
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 04, 2002 - 8:06 pm: | |
Well Magoo I bow to you. I researched it and found that Ferrari made them in his factory up until the rule change and then gave all the designs and tooling to Fiat to make them in theirs.They even put Fiat part numbers on them from that point on.They always said DINO either way.Very good. I love this stuff. |
Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 602
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 04, 2002 - 4:39 pm: | |
I didnt know fiat made them.I know they were installed by Fiat.I thought Ferrari gave them the "DINO" named after his son,Engines to use.Maybe Fiat assembled them?I will investigate.I know it's cloudy back then as all Ferrari wanted to do was race. |
magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 3191
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Friday, October 04, 2002 - 12:49 pm: | |
True, They used the Dino name not Ferrari, but the engines were made by Fiat and installed in the Farina design chassis and constructed by Scaglietti. Confusing but true. |
Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 599
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 04, 2002 - 12:34 pm: | |
they used chains. |
Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 598
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 04, 2002 - 12:33 pm: | |
the 206 and 246 were Ferrari engines.They wore the fiat (DINO) name to qualify for the 500 car production number to be used in racing.At least that is what I was always told . |
Paul Newman (Newman)
Member
Username: Newman
Post Number: 532
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, October 04, 2002 - 12:25 pm: | |
Jay, you could get the fiat dino 2.4 which was the same as the 246 dino engine. It was a plain jane looking compact with a nice engine in it that probably went pretty quick. I like the coffee table, glass top idea. Thanks for the offer Martin on the 208 but Im leaning more towards a 12 or something. Ive seen jag engines for tables before and they look pretty cool. Getting a newer engine isnt a bad idea either, maybe an ex f1 v12 or something? |
magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 3189
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Friday, October 04, 2002 - 8:08 am: | |
The 206/246GT Dinos used the chain driven cams in a transversely mounted 2 liter V/6 engine. |
J. Grande (Jay)
Member
Username: Jay
Post Number: 586
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 11:11 pm: | |
Magoo, I thought the Fiat dino and Ferrari dino both used belts. This is the same engine in the Lancia Stratos right? or is this an entirely different engine? |
magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 3185
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 10:47 pm: | |
There was a V/6 dohc built by Fiat used in the Dino. This engine had timing chains instead of belts. |
Jay Morris (Jm3)
New member
Username: Jm3
Post Number: 2
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 7:40 pm: | |
To : Gene Agatep
This person <[email protected]> says they have a 365 gt 2+2 motor for sale, new in crate. From Ferrari Club of America website.
"Better to be lucky than good"
Jay |
Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 592
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 7:08 pm: | |
You can get a 400 engine or whole car cheap right now.What do you have.Heads,carbs,manifolds? If you need it all buy a 400 carbed car and drop it all right in.Same engine. same bore.same block.rods were changed to increase displacement. |
Gene Agatep (Gagatep)
New member
Username: Gagatep
Post Number: 28
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 6:10 pm: | |
jay,
i definitely will consider 330 or 400 engines.
i don't want to tear up a 400 just to put
an engine in this car though.
i would like to get this car running
as long as it still has a F v-12 on it.
then hopefully, one day a 365 motor would be
mated back for it. |
J. Grande (Jay)
Member
Username: Jay
Post Number: 583
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 11:26 am: | |
Gene, I know it is not "correct" but how about a 400 engine until you find the right one. Many more of those around and for the price of the engine, you could get the whole car. I can't see many 365 engine's being available. Just a thought. |
Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member
Username: Dogue
Post Number: 121
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 11:24 am: | |
Gene,
Email Tom Shaughnessy at [email protected]
He has great sources for vintage Ferrari parts. If he doesn't have an engine, he will probably know who does.
|
Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member
Username: Dogue
Post Number: 120
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 11:21 am: | |
I am not sure, We are having a concours this month and I requested that he display it with a 1988 Ferrari F1 we will have on display. He told me it was in too many pieces and was not presentable. I think he has the complete engine or close to it. The owner is really into the 4 banger Ferrari engines and at one point this year had 4 engines, but has sold all but this one. I will call him this week and see if he will let me take pictures of it. |
Gene Agatep (Gagatep)
New member
Username: Gagatep
Post Number: 27
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 11:16 am: | |
folks,
i'm looking for a F v-12 engine to be installed
in a 1968 365 GT 2+2 - private e-mail me for your
offers
we've had this car in the family for 27 years
and the car broke down 15 years ago - original
engine was disassembled and misplaced during
transports to different storage houses.
i'm not ready to restore this car yet but
am interested in beginning the search. |
J. Grande (Jay)
Member
Username: Jay
Post Number: 580
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 10:05 am: | |
Terry why doesn't he have the parts that are missing custom made? Is that not acceptable in restoration? |
Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 589
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 5:12 pm: | |
I know a guy with a few v-12's he bough back in the 70's for a song. |
BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member
Username: Bretm
Post Number: 2698
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 3:44 pm: | |
On Martin's note, there was (maybe still is) 308 block on ebay recently. That would make a sweet base for a glass coffee table and I bet you could get a decent price for it. If all my money didn't go into the automotive exploits I would get something like that in a second. |
Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member
Username: Miami348ts
Post Number: 2930
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 3:34 pm: | |
why look always for the old stuff? Look for the newer engines and display those, they will be old one day as well.
I have a ncie 308 engine in my office. Great conversation piece and makes me smile evertime I come in the door.
I can sell you a 208GT4 engine from 1975 with tranny for $ 3,000 but you need to wash it down and make it presentable.
|
BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member
Username: Bretm
Post Number: 2696
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 3:26 pm: | |
What they didn't crash they parted out. Even 20-25 years ago Ferrari was kind of a two bit operation, they had to reuse everything because they couldn't afford not to. The modern race cars if they are not wrecked get kept, parted for testing, or sold off eventually. They keep the real memorable ones in Maranello usually for company display. They seemed to have a thing for sending old race cars to the crusher back in the 50s and 60s if there weren't any parts they could use. I don't know if they didnt want people using their own stuff to beat them or what they deal was, but apparently they did it often. It would seem to me if I was in charge of wrecking the unusable cars that I would have a garage full of race engines. We have a couple old engines laying around work, they're more from like 250s and stuff though, not really F1 car engines. |
Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member
Username: Dogue
Post Number: 119
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 3:17 pm: | |
I know a guy who has the 4 banger that was in the 1952 F1 car. He bought the engine over 20 years ago thinking he was buying a 750 Monza, when he opened the crate it was something much different. It is still in pieces and several people have tried to put the car back together, but there is always one hold out that will not sell his piece. I have not seen the engine yet, but I hope to in the near future. |
J. Grande (Jay)
Member
Username: Jay
Post Number: 578
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 1:09 pm: | |
Yes everyone thinks that they will find the proverbial barn loaded with old Ferrari cars and engines. I believe Ferrari has many of them in the factory and the chances that anyone other than the sultan of Brunai getting one are slim. Still, I'm sure there are a few in hiding, probably an old Italian widow who doesn't know what is in the old garage! Would be nice. |
Jack (Gilles27)
Member
Username: Gilles27
Post Number: 589
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 7:11 pm: | |
An article in Motorsport this month mentions how Chris Amon was strolling through the very warehouse you mentioned. He convinced Enzo to throw an old engine into an old chassis and allow him to compete in the Tasman series, in which he did very well. I would think they still have quite a few laying around. |
Paul Newman (Newman)
Member
Username: Newman
Post Number: 524
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 7:06 pm: | |
What ever happens to these old F1 and F2 engines from the 50's that Ive been reading about in books. Ferrari had tons of odd ball dino engines and V8's from 1964. Does ferrari have this stuff tucked away in a warehouse? Did alot of these engines get destroyed like the old GP cars did? I remember reading about this photographer that as a kid questioned why the teams were just scraping these GP cars (like a super squallo) and piling them like cordwood and using them as parts donors. He said they looked at him like he was crazy for caring. I would like to get my hands on an old GP dino engine or something like that for a display in my basement or garage. Probably too much $$$ though. |