| Author | Message | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2168 Registered: 2-2001 |
Sorta makes you want to slow down,huh? | ||
| Ben Millermon (Brainsboy)
Junior Member Username: Brainsboy Post Number: 100 Registered: 5-2001 |
I didnt know fiat owned ferrari  | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2164 Registered: 2-2001 |
Plus we would get 0% financing for 36 months!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1460 Registered: 9-2001 |
Ferrari has been using GM parts for years. The 365GT4 2+2/400/412 series all had a GM auto boxes. Delco emission systems and electronis have been used in several models as well. | ||
| Andre Vieira (Goggles_pisano)
Junior Member Username: Goggles_pisano Post Number: 55 Registered: 5-2002 |
A couple of points here: 1. Bill Sawyer is correct about the M100 project and the use of parts on most exotics...didn't the previous BMW 5- and 3-series use the GM Hydramatic transmissions? 2. I wouldn't say this is a great thing for Ferrari, but I don't think it will be the unmitigated disaster that the Rover/BMW partnership was either. At least if GM has the boneheaded idea to pump up sales volume, they can do it through Maserati rather than Ferrari. They won't be stuck with a bunch of Lincoln LS/S-Types and Mondeo/X-Types to dilute the brand. And another thing...Jaguar was always known for their sports car success against Ferrari--why would Ford decide to plunge them into the Formula One waters with them? They might as well have done it with Volvo... | ||
| VS (Vs1)
New member Username: Vs1 Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2002 |
I'll write another dissenting opinion on this thread. I don't believe that GM would screw up Ferrari. They may not have the same focus on the racing side of the house - but I don't believe they will muddle too much with the sports cars either. We might not get a new cars as often [like the long production runs of the Corvette] and will still get quirky cars [again like the Corvette - but Ferrari's have their own quirks, oops I mean character]. I think design and production will remain under control of the 'Ferrari division' but some features will naturally creep across. Look at the XLR and the Corvette - the instrument panel is the same [like many Ferraris of yesteryear] but aside from that nothing visible is shared. Different markets, different cars. I have to believe the higher ups in GM have realized this fact. If it was Ford again today - I think I'd be more worried. Now with all that said - I hope it never happens. Is Piaggo-Avanti [which I believe is controlled by Ferrari] part of the deal? | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 531 Registered: 2-2002 |
We need to dispel a few myths about GMs involvement in the Lotus M100 Elan project. I just spoke with someone who was directly involved with Lotus, knows all the major players and was on the inside during those days. The M100 was meant to be a $20-$25k car at retail. When the idea took root Lotus was partnering with Toyota on projects. The original plan was to build the car on the old rear drive Corolla platform. The car they built was not up to Lotus standards and came off as a poorly done Miata before the Miata was a reality. By this time the Corolla was moving to FWD. Lotus realized that they could make FWD work so they took a shot at it. That project started and stopped three times. By the time GM took over the project was well on its way. Their contribution was the Isuzu engine. Because the M 100 had ping-ponged around for so long and through so many iterations there was no corporate champion for it within the Lotus organization. Costs got out of hand and it ended up as a $25k car with a $40k+ price tag. Yes, it has a GM steering wheel. Why? Because that wheel cost $20 a piece versus the cost of buying elsewhere or tooling up for a new one. Apparently the Esprit also used it. Probably not a good decision to use a GM part in such a noticeable spot, but costs were way out of hand by this time, and remember, there was no corporate champion to cry foul. Bottom Line--Lotus screwed the car up, not GM. BTW, I had a Series 1 Elan and a book came with it that listed all the parts and part numbers that came from other manufacturers. Front spindles were from a Triumph Spitfire, etc. etc. etc. This has been common practice among small volume manufacturers since the dawn of the automobile age. Aston Martin uses Ford parts, and I'm sure if you look deeply enough into the Murcielago you will find Audi components, HVAC systems, etc. Why reinvent the wheel (pun intended) and drive up cost? | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3300 Registered: 2-2001 |
Robert, There is no doubt the tecnology would be better but would that special feeling of being a unique car and a Ferrari owner still be there? I doubt it. Also, welcome to the site. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3299 Registered: 2-2001 |
Robert, There is no doubt the tecnology would be better but would that special feeling of being a unique car and a Ferrari owner still be there? I doubt it. | ||
| Robert Walker (Rockn_ferrari)
New member Username: Rockn_ferrari Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2002 |
I agree with Ernie. Other than leaving a design in production so long in the past that it has been dated at times, GM hasn't hindered the Corvette team that much. They still pump out some of the best sports cars on the planet for around $50k! Granted, Ferrari is a different story... but some aspects of Ferrari could use the latest in automotive technology. Leave well enough alone (most of a Ferrari)... but wouldn't it be nice to see that Connolly leather over updated interiors, have power windows that you could zip up and down fast in the rain, be able to park on your brick driveway and not have to put a tray under the engine... and buy a distributor cap for less than $400? Maybe GM ownership would open up the aftermarket a little too...? | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3291 Registered: 2-2001 |
Jaguar doesn't have a heritage like Ferrari. Ferrari has the life of one man who made the car into the greatest name in custom made sports cars in the world. It has been in the family, so to speak, and to change that will take away from the whole concept of Ferrari and its origin. | ||
| Jeffrey Caspar (Jcaspar1)
New member Username: Jcaspar1 Post Number: 36 Registered: 5-2002 |
Then again Ford did resurrect Jaguar and is paying for their entry into F-1. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 834 Registered: 2-2001 |
Yes, lets take a look at GM's impact on Lotus - the infamous Lotus Elan. Almost single handedly destroyed Lotus with that travesty, a front wheel drive, Isuzu powered, GM parts bin interior failure. GM will not change - it is still the same company - and will constant try to "improve" Ferrari, not understading the least bit what the company is all about. Ernesto | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 312 Registered: 10-2001 |
Well Audi isnt GM ..and i do find the Murcielago lost some of it italian flare/sensuality when compared to the Diablo . And by looking at the next little Lambo , it looks like lambos will be like that from now on..It might even have an Audi engine.. | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 390 Registered: 11-2001 |
Hey what ever hands Ferrari ends up in, is better than the hands it is in. I say this because then maybe the car owners will be treated with more respect than that of the current management. Another thing is that "reliabilty" will be another benefit. You guys know good and well what I'm talking about. Look at Lamborgini, did the big auto makers ruin that car. NO. Is it still an exotic? Is it still fast? Is the car better? The answer is yes. Don't worry, the only thing that can come from this is good. What would really be great is if one of the German big three gets ahold of the company. Anyone of them Dalmer/Chrysler, BMW, or Audi would only improve the cars. So long as Ferrari is kept exotic and fast, then reliability and good customer relations are added to the equation, what ever company gets the car won't go wrong. | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
Junior Member Username: Mojo Post Number: 79 Registered: 9-2002 |
Look at the bright side, belt changes/service's could be $300 instead of $3000. Of course the down side is this site will have to be called GM Chatt.com | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 338 Registered: 5-2002 |
People would pull up along side you and yell, "Is that a REAL kit car, or one of those Ferrari built replicas." | ||
| David Jones (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 389 Registered: 4-2001 |
No Mike, these kit cars are still offspring of Satan... But you would be able to put a big block Chevy motor in you 308 without getting crap...  | ||
| Mike Dawson (Miked)
Junior Member Username: Miked Post Number: 57 Registered: 2-2001 |
Would this mean that Fiero and Corvette based kit car Ferrari replicas would then be "real" Ferraris and be exempt from the wrath of the Ferrari lawyers? FML would be off the hook. | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
Junior Member Username: Mojo Post Number: 78 Registered: 9-2002 |
Hey cool now they can make those 360's, 570's so they will be great like a Z06. S/f badges on camaro's. Sorry I dont know why I say these things.Just kidding | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2159 Registered: 2-2001 |
The only difference between GM ownership will be that problems on GM cars are considered "defects", and problems with Ferraris are "Character". | ||
| A.Tonokaboni (Senna1994)
Junior Member Username: Senna1994 Post Number: 56 Registered: 9-2002 |
As a current Ferrari owner I have been waiting for over 30 months for my 360 Spider, I know what the dealers are doing here. I currently own a Ferrari that I bought from the same Dealership (albeit different location). They are telling me now 1st quarter of 03 I will have the car, that is over 3 years of waiting with a Deposit and being a loyal owner. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 331 Registered: 5-2002 |
I hear that GM is already tooling up to produce Ferrari retrofit emblems to install on any current Corvette. It will all be one big, happy family under one corporate umbrella when it's all said and done. Flame away!!! | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 833 Registered: 2-2001 |
Nick, I walked into my dealership with NO prior Ferrari purchases and ordered my 360. It arrived in 4 months, and it was all pretty straightforward. For an Enzo order, yes I agree. But for a normal production Ferrari, I think it is all exaggerated. Just walk in and put a deposit and fill out a contract - as easy as that. Regarding GM, I can so absolutely no positives to GM owning Ferrari - other than to beef up GMs image while at the same time destroying Ferrari's. Ernesto | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 346 Registered: 7-2002 |
what is strange is that I just read an article about GM and Ford being in a world of hurt with all the current demand in cars lagging and with their 0% financing they are stealing demand from future years which will hurt earnings. Also, ford is in trouble with it's pension fund and all the interest payments. GMAC is no longer kicking in $9 billion a year to GM and is actually costing GM money via the 0% deals. GMAC borrows the money at 3%, GM pays them for the cost of capital as a marketing and advertising expense and then sells the loans to the consumer at 0% just to move the cars. My point is that GM is not in a pretty financial picture either unless they view this as a method to generate earnings or to just prop up their image. The holy grail of autos...Ferrari! | ||
| Nick Berry (Nickb)
New member Username: Nickb Post Number: 31 Registered: 8-2002 |
GM buying Fiat/Ferrari may not be as bad as many think. They are smart enough to know not to mess up a profitable enterprise. That is why they want it. More importantly, GM ownership may equalize the distribution process as to who can buy a Ferrari. If there is one thing I have learned in the short time I have owned a Ferrari is not all buyers are equal. Whereas with Porsche an individual can walk into a showroom and order a car assuming there was an appropriate allocation for the dealership that is not the case with Ferrari. With Ferrari its all about relationships (read who you know and who you are). Essentially a person with no previous ownership of a Ferrari has little or no chance of buying one especially a 360 or the future 420. This process will come back to haunt them especially when and if they build a car that is not as popular as the 360. | ||
| Erich Walz (Deleteall)
Junior Member Username: Deleteall Post Number: 146 Registered: 12-2001 |
What's interesting is the only two options apparently involve GM. And while Ferrari is not necessarily included, one would think if they need money that bad, its gonna happen. On the bright side, what about a Pinnafarina bodied corvette? | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 742 Registered: 6-2001 |
I hope that GM doesn't get Ferrari, but I don't think it will make much difference. Since the Fiat take over, Ferrari has been better funded, the production line and research were given adequate funds to build a modern car. I don't think that GM would screw with Ferrari, given that it is very profitable. HOWEVER, I think that GM would cut back on the racing budget. I'm told that each car carries a 30k addition for the racing. GM would probably reduce the cost of Ferrari's racing, and keep the money. That would be the worst. Art | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Junior Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 69 Registered: 8-2002 |
I would never want to see GM owning any part of Ferrari, look what the suits did to Porsche with the 996 and now a SUV, but they did own part of Lotus for a while and greatly improved the quality and reliability of the Esprit in 88, they eventually sold off their interest in Lotus | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 343 Registered: 7-2002 |
The word "General" and "Ferrari" together? Now that is an oxymoron if I ever heard one. If GM gets em a Ferrari Minivan/SUV won't be too far behind. | ||
| Mitchel DeFrancis (4re308)
Member Username: 4re308 Post Number: 707 Registered: 6-2001 |
I have been hearing about this WAY to much. If GM buys Ferrari, all of our PRE-GM cars will be worth a lot more! A GM Ferrari? I will never, ever forgive Fiat if this happens. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 832 Registered: 2-2001 |
I'm sure the Sultan of Brunei has $2.3B he can put up to buy Ferrari and save it from the devil! I have no interest is seeing those cheap GM A/C and Radio controls in Ferrari cabins - and that's probably the least of the potential problems. Ernesto | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 310 Registered: 10-2001 |
http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=08424637 I hope this doesnt happen ! |