| Author | Message | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 383 Registered: 5-2001 |
I am getting sick just thinking about it. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 846 Registered: 2-2001 |
Racer, I was being sarcastic. Just an extreme example, not to be taken seriously. But given that Chevy releases four special edition Vettes a year, it would not be out of the real of possibilities (sarcasm again). By the way, Ed thinks they'd sell every one of them, so some Vette fans are open to the idea. Ernesto | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3333 Registered: 2-2001 |
Listen Guys, I started this post just to get a cross section of how some of you felt. I can see it going the wrong way. Nobody knows what will happen until it happens. Right now all of this is speculation. | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 305 Registered: 3-2002 |
Ernesto, why the (@$&@( would a Vette be Ferrarized? They have nothing to do with each other! They wouldn't do that anyway. Not very many Corvette fans would like that, and some could care less who wins in F1. It goes both ways. GM would never get away with a "2002 F1 World Champion super duper special edition Chevy Corvette Convertible with red painwork and marlboro decals, schumacher signature on the door panels, heads up display with rubens "door open" voice alerts" car... | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2177 Registered: 2-2001 |
I agree 100%, however we are talking about a manufactured product sold for a profit. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 845 Registered: 2-2001 |
Neither can you deposit love, happiness, pride, passion, greatness, mystique, and the rest of the emotions people experience every day in life. However, we know they are valuable. There are more things to life than bank accounts and stocks. Ernesto | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2173 Registered: 2-2001 |
And they would sell thousands of them and make lots of money and my GM stock would go up. When any Manufacturer makes a financial decision, "Heritage" is, and should be at the bottom of the decision list. You cannot deposit "Heritage" into your checking account. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 843 Registered: 2-2001 |
I just wont be able to stand the 2002 F1 World Champion super duper special edition Chevy Corvette Convertible with red painwork and marlboro decals, schumacher signature on the door panels, heads up display with rubens "door open" voice alerts. By the way, Jags may be more reliable, but they are just rebadged fords. If I wanted that, I'd buy a Lincoln. Aston uses merged Ford V6's. Horrible, just horrible... Ernesto | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 304 Registered: 3-2002 |
Excellent points Mark.  | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 324 Registered: 10-2001 |
I'd like GM to buy Ferrari for two reasons. First I hate some of the B.S. FNA trys to pull. They seem to be getting too strong for their own good. Hopefuly GM would get rid of them all together. That's realy the only change I can see that realy needs to be made. FNA has been playing "lawyer ball" lately. (phrase from King of the Hill) Also I would like to take some of the steam out of the Ferrari snobs. Some people are so in love with Ferrari that they tend to be annoying. You can't talk about any other car without them putting it down. | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 302 Registered: 3-2002 |
I think GM will improve Ferrari. Look at the Aston Vanquish, new Jags etc. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3332 Registered: 2-2001 |
I will say the Jag electronics has improved. But these new models look like crap. Going to a smaller car for people who cannot afford the big car. Sound familiar of one of the big 3 destroying the image of the car? Take the car and make a whore out of it. They don't care about the image. They want the bottom line and thats where it stops. If they do destroy the image they suck all they can out of it and shoot it down the tubes. Why should it be any different with Ferrari? | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 535 Registered: 2-2002 |
"A few years back the body fit of a Jag was so bad you could get in and out of the car without opening the door." That's a great line Frank!  | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 353 Registered: 5-2002 |
GM will destroy Ferrari Rock and roll music will destroy all morality Television will destroy the motion picture industry Automobiles could never be allowed in cities because all horses would be terrified Passenger trains can never travel faster than 15 miles per hour or the acceleration will crush the passengers | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1465 Registered: 9-2001 |
As far as Jag is concerned, Ford has vastly improved the build quailty of those muts. A few years back the body fit of a Jag was so bad you could get in and out of the car without opening the door. It is much better since Ford took over.I believe GM ownership of Ferrari would help the marque and not hurt it. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3330 Registered: 2-2001 |
You hit the nail on the head there...... | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 842 Registered: 2-2001 |
FIAT are an italian/european company, and they understand what is going on. Ferrari is a national treasure of Italy, and they preserved it in Italy. GM would be a catastrophe. Ernesto By the way, Jags are now just rebadged Ford Contours, etc etc. You can tell they have US design in them by looking at the body panel clearances and other details. The record of US companies managing Euro brands is not that good... | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 374 Registered: 5-2001 |
When FIAT bought them out they were/are huge. How come the passion didn't die then if it will happen with a big company buy-out? How did FIAT preserve it? | ||
| Steve Holden (Sf_348)
New member Username: Sf_348 Post Number: 10 Registered: 10-2002 |
I'm sitting in Europe & without upsetting anyone Fiat is not exactly the most prestigious name in motoring in fact in some countries it's not that good at all. so i think some will complain for a bit if / when it changes hands but Ferrari is getting stonger all the time so any parent company ( unless their REALLY stupid )will let them get on with it & it will be buisness as usual for Ferrari & Ferrari Chat. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3329 Registered: 2-2001 |
The whole thing here is if the passion, uniqueness, legend,life of Enzo, would be lost by a giant Auto manuf. take over and take the "Romance," for want of a better word, out of the image that Ferrari has today. I personally feel that it would and a lot of damage would be done to the Ferrari Image. Some don't see it this way because they think technology would be better,or better parts priceing, or whatever. The presence of these things don't bother the true Ferrari enthusiast. Disturb the image, the Enzo story, the specialty, and get the buyers thinking it is associated with a mass producer and you lose the FERRARI PASSION and it will dwindle out causing it to become a car not a unique automobile that is the greatest sports car in the world. This area is a delicate one and just cannot be dealt with a matter of fact type of decision. As for the Jag and Ford merger or buy out. There is no comparing Ferrari and Jag and their history. Jag never had the deep emotions involved that Ferrari owners have about their cars and it never had the personal type of legend that Ferrari has. This is where I see it. I guess we could debate this forever, or until something happens. In any event I hope when or if there is a take over or re-structure to better finance the co., the decision will be made wisely and keep it from being eaten up by another auto giant. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 990 Registered: 8-2001 |
Components in the newer Ferraris are not exclusively Italian anyway. You've got German-, Italian-, Japanese-, and American-made parts in the 360 Modena. The build quality (aside from the paintwork), is quite impressive for the latest V8 car. If a larger company, like GM, bought them out, I'd like to see better parts pricing. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 488 Registered: 3-2002 |
i think doctor tom makes a lot of sense, and i agree for the most part. does anybody think that lambo crazies lost their passion for the car when chrysler had it? not a chance. as long as the production numbers stay low, and the only involvement is to improve build quality etc, then nothing will really change. as a matter of fact, it might improve your 'passion' since its a lot easier to love a car that works all the time, than one thats letting you down at the worst possible moment. and besides that, the mold was broken in 69 when fiat took it over anyway. from that point forward it was a cog in a big company - albeit an italian big company. i wouldn't like it if they were owned by gm, but i would still be a fanatic. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 367 Registered: 5-2001 |
what about Ford-Jaguar? | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 840 Registered: 2-2001 |
The differnce is that Daimler-Benz did not get acquired, they bought Chrysler. I'm sure it would be completely different if Chrysler has taken over MB. The question of the thread is if I would still have the passion if Ferrari was bought by GM or similar company. The answer is NO. Ernesto | ||
| ty (360mode)
Junior Member Username: 360mode Post Number: 75 Registered: 9-2002 |
does anyone feel differently about mercedes now that it's daimler chrysler? i personally thought i would, but to be honest, i've bought several MB's since the merger w/o a second thought. my gut thought is "hell yes" i'd feel differently but as long as ferrari itself did not change, probably not. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 365 Registered: 5-2001 |
I must be missing something but I was under the impression that Ferrariis more profitable then they ever have been. Am I wrong about this? | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3321 Registered: 2-2001 |
Tommy, I understand what you are saying but I feel the magic you want preserved will vanish if associated with a large Auto manuf. such as one of the big American 3. As for John Doe I think you are right, he probably doesn't know a Ferrari from a Escort so what difference does that make. It's the guys who buy and support the Ferrari name who count and they know Ferrari doesn't have the greatest tecnology in the world but it still has Enzos soul. Then I agree with Ed. He feels that his Vette is a more reliable car and I think he is right, but the guys who continue to buy and own Ferraris will give that up for owning a piece of the legend and that is why they are not in a Corvette but still driving a Ferrari. Also to clarify what I mean about the big 3 is that a merger with some large co. other than a large auto manuf. can work in my opinion keeping things as they are, but put Ferrari under the mother logo and you have lost that Image. As Ed says the Co. has to do something to survive. I agree it definetly needs some financial help but don't connect it with a mass auto producer that will kill everything Ferrari has meant to the world over the years. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 364 Registered: 5-2001 |
Except we are not talking about quality of product here. We're talking about passion. A 365 GTB/4 will always be a piece of •••• in terms of quality and durability compared to any new Jap or U.S. sportscar. It doesn't matter. They will never be a 12cyl handbuilt Italian sportscar either nor will they ever, and I mean ever, be valued like the Daytona. That's the weird upside-down logic in all of this. Ferrari is only a footnote depending on what chapter of automotive history one is referring to. They sure don't take a backseat to anyone in the history of auto racing. Period. Someone may say, so what? Is that all? Maybe, maybe not, but it was all to Enzo. He never, ever, gave one single rat's ass about ranking up with the Big 3. All he wanted to do was race. That's it. As we all know the road cars were only manufactured to finance the race. Of course when FIAT bought their half back in the late 60's the production runs became a means to support the corporation's profit margin. That is when things really changed. That's truly when Ferrari ceased to be Ferrari in the classic sense. It has just been so long ago that we have forgotton. Anyone who stops to think about it for more than 15 seconds should realize that the last real Ferraris were before FIAT. The ones whose fenders were hammered out on tree stumps and engines were assembled from parts around the shop and off of old worn out racers out behind the factory. My 308 was a FIAT assembly line product. I hate it but it is true. My point is if Ferrari is bought, it's nothing that hasn't already happened. Nothing is going to change tomorrow that didn't change back in 1969. The death blow to the image isn't the owner but the number of cars built per year. Keep it low and, despite the modern post-FIAT changes that will occure, people will always grin and point when they see one. Why? Because most people never have seen one up close. We here are jaded to these cars but not John Doe next to you at the stoplight. He will go home or to work and tell everybody what he saw. That is the magic that I want preserved. Just keep the production numbers low and the Ferrari image will never die. whew. | ||
| Allen Cook (Alcook62)
Junior Member Username: Alcook62 Post Number: 61 Registered: 3-2002 |
Very good point Ed. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2169 Registered: 2-2001 |
There will always be some who want everything to remain the same and have the misconception that they don't make 'em like they used to. The facts are that almost everything is better than it used to be. Go take a drive in any car from the 50s through the 80s and then go drive a new whatever. It is OK to dream about the past but the reality is that things for the most part are better now. I have a 71 365 in my shop right now and the lines are beautiful, but it drives like a 55 Chevy or not quite as good. We look at all the old classics and dream of motoring along so carefree and effortless but the reality is that most are relics that are better off in museums. Sorry, but You Can't go back. In all of automotive history, Ferrari is just a footnote compared to some of the big names associated with the industry. I hope it can hold on and be independent because I usually root for the underdog, but in reality new ownership would probably be it's only salvation. | ||
| Joel Belser (Driver)
New member Username: Driver Post Number: 7 Registered: 9-2002 |
Guys...Ferrari has evolved over the years. It was never a static company. During the early to mid 1950's a production run of 30 - 50 cars was huge. A run in the thousands, as was the 308, would have been unthinkable. Was the heritage lost in the transition from handmade one offs to "mass" production? No. Therefore, I don't feel that Ferrari would change under any ownership, but would continue to evolve. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3319 Registered: 2-2001 |
Good point about being rare Tommy, but do you think the ,"Dyed in the wool" buyers, owners, will continue to support the new Ferrari under a new mother logo. They threw a fit when Ferrari produced a fiberglass car. I still think a lot of the orig. legacy will be lost and over time the real soul of Ferrari will fade away. Of course there will be a new generation of buyers and what they do will remain to be seen. JMO | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 358 Registered: 5-2001 |
I am not as big on the newer Ferrari's so I probably would feel no different then I do now. I jumped on the Ferrari bandwagon back in 81. I was in high school 82-86 so it's these and earlier cars that I tie to emotionally. When I was 13 it was the 308 and the 512 so those are what I grew up thinking about. That's why I bought a 308 instead of a 355 and believe me I do not think for one second that the 308 is a better car. It's just a better car for me. I would not want Ferrari to sell out but if they do I do not believe their public image will change from that alone. The only way the image will change is if Ferrari increases production to, say, Porsche level. The cool thing about Ferrari to most people is that they are so rare. | ||
| Matt (Matt_lamotte)
New member Username: Matt_lamotte Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2002 |
Very Good question. Personally as long as they continued to build cars of the current quality I believe they would end up ok in my book but personally I hope it never happens. I like the fact they are a smaller company kicking butt around the globe | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3318 Registered: 2-2001 |
If it did happen, how would you feel about a guy who bought a new Ferrari, say under the G.M. logo, and wanted to join the F.C. with the older orig. Ferrari owners? Do you think his car and discussions, would fit in with the older Ferrari cars and the members on the F.C.site. | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Member Username: Markg Post Number: 300 Registered: 2-2001 |
I get so many people asking what model Mustang my 308 is (after seeing prancing horse on rear) that it might as well be owned by FORD. Don't see how GM could be any worse than Fix It Again Tony. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3316 Registered: 2-2001 |
Ernesto and Kevin, I share your feelings and certainly hope that your assumptions are true. What is being asked is "If this happened." Just some comments that should be interesting. | ||
| Kevin Horner (Boz)
New member Username: Boz Post Number: 27 Registered: 8-2002 |
In line with the GM thread, would Italy allow it to be bought by a huge American company? | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 839 Registered: 2-2001 |
I can't really see anybody else but FIAT owning Ferrari. If it is to change hands, at the very least it should be controlled by an Italian/Eurpean conglomerate. An American company would be disastrous - as no American manufacturer has demonstrated a long-term ability to manage an exotic car company (ie Lamborghini, Lotus, et al). Ferrari is considered a national treasure in Italy, along with world cup soccer, the entire nation follows those two sports every day. I really hope it doens't lose that! Ferrari changing owners is not the same as Lamborghini, Lotus, or Aston - in my opinion. These three are more like specialy car builders, Ferrari is an institution... with a brand name that is priceless. Ernesto | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3311 Registered: 2-2001 |
What if Ferrari was bought up by one of the big boys. Would the old image of Ferrari change here on the F.C.. Or would there be a new birth and a new concept of the cars image. In other words would you be as interested and still have the same feeling about the "new Ferrari" you now have of Ferrari or would some of those feelings die. Maybe to keep the image alive it would be called Ferrari Chat of Yester Year or the Real Ferrari Chat. |