| Author |
Message |
Douglas A Hunt (Boxercrazy)
New member
Username: Boxercrazy
Post Number: 11
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 8:10 pm: | |
jselevan,i would be interested in some more info on the blue and tan boxer my e-mail is: [email protected]
thanks
douglas hunt |
James Selevan (Jselevan)
Junior Member
Username: Jselevan
Post Number: 244
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 12:03 am: | |
V.Z. - as I understand, cars manufactured after 1973 are subject to all of the California requirements. My 1972 Dino is exempt. This exemption initially occurred in 1997 - 25 years after 1972. However, they have not rolled the 25 years, and therefore, cars manufactured in 1975, for example, still must satisfy California smog requirements. I am not knowledgeable about the Federal regulations.
As far as registering in another state, that is the preferred Modus Operandi of many who purchase cars in California. The danger is that, should you be sited for an infraction, or should a disgruntled neighbor contact someone, you would be required to register or sell the vehicle (out of state).
Jim S. |
V.Z. (Ama328)
New member
Username: Ama328
Post Number: 13
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 8:29 pm: | |
James, i'm pretty sketchy on DOT/EPA, but isn't there a 25 yr/older exemption at the federal level that would allow a 1978 BBi to slide in starting next year ?? If so, I have no idea if CA would let it in, but I've heard of people that registered cars in Nevada or some other close by state to get around some of the restrictive CA stuff.
Anybody know anything definitive on this ? |
James Selevan (Jselevan)
Junior Member
Username: Jselevan
Post Number: 243
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 8:23 pm: | |
The Bureau of Automotive Repair (B.A.R.) in California required smog certification through a referee station. In order to qualify, the car will have met DOT/EPA bumper, door reinforcement, reflectors, etc. Thus, when imported through Savannah (where my car came in) or other east coast port, a bond was established, and the car sent to a conversion shop. When modifications were completed, the shop took the car to the DOT/EPA referee, who then certified the car. The bond was returned, and then registered in 1 of 49 states. To register in California, it required the B.A.R. sticker (and necessary smog equipment, if any, to pass emission standards).
Most, if not all, B.A.R. certified Boxers were injected, simply because it was prohibitively expensive to certify a carbureted car. They run too dirty, and air pump and catalytic converters simply did not accomplish the task. Some bold souls went to propane, or some other fuel.
For those interested, I went over the blue Sheehan Boxer, 1978 carbureted, with tan interior. A nice car for the money (less than what is advertised on the web). It does not have papers. Repeat, it does not have papers, California or otherwise (DOT/EPA). The seller originally said that papers were available, but this proved not to be the case. Mike is motivated to move the car, and I happy to speak with anyone interested to provide more details.
Jim S. |
Tenney (Tenney)
Member
Username: Tenney
Post Number: 279
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 4:07 pm: | |
The BAR sticker pretty much requires a blood initiation to acquire, and so would suspect any car that is BAR'd up will also be fully EPA/DOT'd. Still, before I'd ante up, would check papers w/"Four Red Dots" Merritt. |
Douglas A Hunt (Boxercrazy)
New member
Username: Boxercrazy
Post Number: 9
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 3:15 pm: | |
heres another boxer in a color thats also one of my favorites,this one has a non original front spoiler(from a later car i think),and the steering wheel is not correct but the ad says it was originally from california......http://www.legendarymotorcar.com/inventory/79_boxer.html |
Douglas A Hunt (Boxercrazy)
New member
Username: Boxercrazy
Post Number: 8
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 3:10 pm: | |
this boxer has carbs and according to the description it has a "california bar sticker"making it legal in cali......
http://www.ferraris-online.com/cars/23497/23497a.html
however most boxer ads say EPA/DOT paperwork in hand,but this ad does not mention the "coveted" papers hmmmm......
thats ok this one is my favorite color,so if it doesnt sell i will keep on saving for it(and theres no emissions testing in my state) :-) |
vince (Vinces)
New member
Username: Vinces
Post Number: 6
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 8:29 pm: | |
All BB's--365BB, 512BB, and 512BBi are gray market cars. It is very difficult to register any of them in CA. Look for a plate on the driver's door jamb with CA's emissions certification. I saw a BBi on either Sheehan's site or ebay a while back that was CA OK. There will be very few. Also, getting a carb'd version certified is very difficult because of the difficult of keeping 12 carbs in tune. In Virginia (where I live), the state gives an emissions exemption for cars that were manufactured overseas. It is a great loophole but CA has no such thing. I sold a carb'd 400 to a buyer in CA a while back and he registered the car in Oregon (as he had a company there.
The boxers are great but if this is your first, they can be challenging |
Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
New member
Username: Stickanddice
Post Number: 17
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 8:21 pm: | |
Aren't the 512 BB's also gray market cars in the U.S? Are the BBi's the only California legal car?
What is the cost of shipping a BB from Europe. Is it worth it? I know the pricing ranges a lot depending on the model. Anyone have any experience with this?
So far I'm pretty sure I want a carb car. I am looking at a 308 and also the boxer, although I have yet to find a carb boxer for sale here. I've heard great things about the 308 as a perfect "starter" Ferrari and might take the plunge that way. It's just that there is something about those V12's... |
vince (Vinces)
New member
Username: Vinces
Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 7:55 pm: | |
Last comment actually. Consider the 512BB instead of the BBi. Is a bit of a cross between the 365 and BBi. It has the carbs and nothing beats the sound of air through the intake manifolds of 12 carbs (except keeping them in synch that is). An excellent overview of these cars is: http://www.ferraris-online.com/Articles/SCM_0001.html
It is a Sheehan article and as much as I don't recommend him, he does know the cars well.... |
vince (Vinces)
New member
Username: Vinces
Post Number: 3
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 7:51 pm: | |
Price differences for the BBs can be due to many factors. A major can cost 6K - 10K. A car with one just completed commands a premium. Records command a premium. New tires are worth a thousand or more. A car with all of its little problems worked out (and there are always lots) is worth more. Also, some of the higher prices are just owners not realizing what they are worth in today's market....
All that being said, the cars are a blast to drive. Just don't try to use 2nd gear while the car is cold....and expect to spend a good month learning how to shift the transmission so that the synchros actually work... |
vince steckler (Vinces)
New member
Username: Vinces
Post Number: 2
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 7:46 pm: | |
I have a 512BB and it is a great car. Bought it through Sheehan but would not recommend using him. The manuals and service records were in the car when I inspected but were not in the car when it was delivered. Some folks claim they were stolen from Sheehan's shop. Other claim he sold them. Sheehan refuses to say what happened and does not return calls or emails about them. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 1519
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 2:26 pm: | |
I am looking to buy a 512BBi now. I have found them between $50k and $85k with no apparent reason for the difference. The best cars I have found have not been the cheapest. I am looking at a 6000km model this weekend that the guy wants less than $70k for and it has had a recent service. But I have found another at $85k that needs service. The market for these cars is flat making it a prime time to buy. The cooling system, transaxle, a/c system and more were improved by the time the 512BBi came out. It is a race car for the street. Much more visceral than a TR. |
TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 1800
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 12:32 pm: | |
512 trs would be a great choice if you have the budget - yes the bbi have more of the kinks worked out - though maybe not an idea daily driver but you could try |
Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
New member
Username: Stickanddice
Post Number: 15
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 12:30 pm: | |
Sounds like a maintenance nightmare. Maybe I should look into the 512TR to get my mid engine flat 12 fix.
How about the 512 BBi's. Are they more reliable? More suitable as a daily driver? |
William Badurski (Billb)
Junior Member
Username: Billb
Post Number: 98
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 7:57 am: | |
I owned 17403, engine stamped "014". It was the earliest Boxer I've seen in the US. This car was extremely fast, but terribly unreliable. It had an appetite for alternators (3), voltage regulators (5), and a Dinoplex during the period I owner it, about 1.5 years. That said, it was a ball to drive. This early car had only two cooling fans, while a later car I saw had three. It tended to run a little hot in summer low-speed driving as a result. Sometime after I sold it, it needed a transaxle repair including ring and pinion, which was very costly. I believe the gearbox was improved later, perhaps not until the 512BB. |
A.Tonokaboni (Senna1994)
Junior Member
Username: Senna1994
Post Number: 66
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 12:07 am: | |
The 365 BB was and is such a beautiful car, Mike Sheehan www.ferraris-online.com would be the person to contact. |
Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
New member
Username: Stickanddice
Post Number: 14
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 9:26 pm: | |
Thanks guys.
Just going down the list and looking to see what Fcar makes the most sense for me right now.
Hopefully I'll be driving one early next year! |
David Feinberg (Fastradio2)
Junior Member
Username: Fastradio2
Post Number: 202
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 9:12 pm: | |
365BB...Brought mine about 20 years ago, not really knowing exactly what it was, or its' rarity. All BBs were gray...not really a concern, or ever has been an issue.
Overall, truly a great automobile. Big time fun and smiles, though not particularly streetable. Parts are a bit rare and pricey...
Timeless lines..
387 cars built.
David
|
Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member
Username: Vwalfa4re
Post Number: 424
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 7:11 am: | |
The guy I bought my 308 from has (had?) one. John Apen. He used to own FAF in Atlanta. I know he still had it in Sept 97. It was in his back yard when I picked my car up. |
TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 1710
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 6:44 am: | |
no reason to run from a euro car if it was done correctly. David on this board has the a 365 bb and is one of the few lucky ones, there are not many in the world |
Lee Sanders (Lsand007)
New member
Username: Lsand007
Post Number: 20
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 6:09 am: | |
You will be running away from all three Boxer models. No Boxers were imported by Ferrari as a US model. All were allegedly certified. |
Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
New member
Username: Stickanddice
Post Number: 13
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 2:51 am: | |
Looking into getting a Ferrari and this is one of the models I'm considering.
If they are in the U.S. That probably means gray market car. Should I run away from them?
Where could I find one? Any owners out there with their opinions on these cars? |