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Message |
V.Z. (Ama328)
New member
Username: Ama328
Post Number: 24
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 3:19 pm: | |
Tape record that S.O.B., either over the phone or with a small recorder hidden in your pocket. In most states, is legal to tape a conversation if at least one party knows it's being taped. Sounds like he's already admitted fault to you, so you should be able to draw him out on this one more time. Oughta be a slam dunk at the courthouse... |
ross koller (Ross)
Member
Username: Ross
Post Number: 574
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 7:54 am: | |
please sue them in small claims court. if you follow frank's advice, you will win.
if you don't feel comfortable giving the name of the shop (for whatever reason), i believe if you gave and address that would be sufficient...... |
luciano favero (Ontogenetic1007)
New member
Username: Ontogenetic1007
Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 12:12 am: | |
Addendum:
There have been several requests for the shop's name. I understand your concern, only too well.
As indicated in my post to the Chicago section which I include below, I have just discovered
the car's fate on Friday evening, and having never been subjected to anything remotely similar,
I wish to consider my options carefully.
In the interim I am organizing a list of things I should/could have done to lessen or prevent the damage
to the car and likewise, the fraudulent billing (I have separated the two, however, they seem to support each other).
In retrospect, everything appears simple, of course. I expect to post it in 1-2 days.
Or perhaps such a list/FAQ already exists? Something we could use to rate service facilities,
minimize unfortunate events ...
Previously posted to the Chicago section
Thank you for the suggestions here and in the General Discussion Forum.
>Jack (Gilles27)
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Luciano, that's incredible. I would post the name, personally. There's a repair shop in
the city that I pass on the train every day.
>For the past 6 weeks or so they have had a 308 sitting outside, adjacent to the train
tracks, just soaking up the lovely Chicago fall weather.
>That was the first thing I thought of when I read your story.
There are several Ferrari's soaking up the "lovely" Chicago fall weather at the shop that "serviced" my car.
Some were there three weeks ago, some have arrived since. In the interim the only one which has escaped is mine.
Sadly, not only did my car soak up the "lovely" Chicago fall weather, but on a number of days it did so
with the engine bonnet removed. Ironically, at my request, I had been assured it would remain inside.
The owner's explanation post fact: "It is designed to be in the rain"
Although I am inclined to post the name of the "repair" shop, that sickening feeling
of having had something dear, brutally abused and violated is very much dancing in my brain.
The wounds are much too fresh (the car was brought home Friday evening) and wish to consult
an attorney prior to deciding on a course of action.
Principally, I wish to minimize the emotional damage and not become extremely skeptical of every shop and mechanic.
I believe it is this which is most damaging long term and I am very interested in concluding this
unfortunate episode with a balanced, not overly pessimistic pov of the industry.
I am hopeful, naively so perhaps, that the owner of the facility reconsiders his position.
He is in accord that what they did to my car is terrible, but while I wish that he never touches
anything I own again, he wants the car back to correct everything and more (in two days as per him, which is "fascinating").
That is asking too much of me at this time. Emotionally, it is more acceptable to place the car in the garbage.
>well it has to be Continental.
Pardon the confusion, and this may appear a bit selfish, but having never been subjected to a remotely similar event before,
I am considering my options carefully and feel it is prudent to consult an attorney prior to mentioning names.
The facility in question isn't LFSC nor Continental (they service other marques).
I have been told they acquire Ferrari parts through both, LFSC and Continental.
>I took my previous cars to various garages of good reputation around Chicago and always tested the cars before and after.
>Never did I have your misfortune, but I did find some astonishing results, which caused me to take some names off that list.
It is this sentiment which bothers me most, particularly when they understand that what they have done hurt others.
Once again, thank you for the suggestions.
Regards, Luci
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Ghostrider (Threefivefive)
New member
Username: Threefivefive
Post Number: 16
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 7:02 pm: | |
I would have to agree with Jack, Luciano. I too am in the Chicago-area and am thinking about picking up a new F-car. I'm concerned enough about the distance I would have to drive this car to get it serviced from a reputable dealer -- the last thing I want to do is to worry about these completely disreputable and dishonest scammers.
Do let us know who it was, as this situation doesn't even seem to be in question as to who is right and wrong.
Regards. |
Jack (Gilles27)
Member
Username: Gilles27
Post Number: 618
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 4:01 pm: | |
Luciano, since I'm in the area, I'd be interested in knowing who did this to you. I definitely don't wish to relive your nightmare. |
jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Junior Member
Username: Atheyg
Post Number: 97
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 10:32 am: | |
As JRV said document everything, pics, all contact you had with this guy and have a real tech document and fix the problems.
Many states have a regulatory agency over looking repair shops which can revoke his repair license especially something as this since his actions are fraudulent, you could file a police report for vehicle damages also as a matter of record.
Make complaints to BBB etc this way you will find out if he has done this before.
Find out who owns the property of his shop and CC everything to him also, a lien on his property would be a violation of his lease and he could get evicted.
Good Luck |
JRV (Jrvall)
Junior Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 161
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 10:03 am: | |
This is a very sad story, and unfortunately all to common. As a shop owner I am asked to 'come behind' more repair/service/sales jobs than one would think. Often.
The first step to a happy (happier) ending is to have a 'real' Ferrari Shop/Mechanic analyze the pre-existing and created problems, document everything, record, witness, photograph and proceed with getting the car serviced/repaired in a quality proffesional manner.
Then take whatever course of action you feel like persuing.
Some advice for the future. Find the best guys that you feel comfortable with and deal with the wait and the prices. The truth is the best guys actually cost less because they can repair/service the car properly the first time. Many of the problems I've had to come behind to straighten out where from jobs I lost giving phone quotes with realistic turn around times (usually measured in weeks) and prices which are also realistic (higher) based on experience.
Of course the other shop could supposedly do the work faster & cheaper of course. There are reasons why they are faster and cheaper, they don't do all the work, and they don't use as many parts. So guys end up with a faster, cheaper mess. And not always cheaper, the crooks have an uncanny way of getting all the money for virtually none of the work.
There are far more scam artists out there that will take advantage of people than there are experienced proffesional shops.
The Mistakes of the Past can only be corrected in the Future.
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KCCK (Kenneth)
New member
Username: Kenneth
Post Number: 31
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 9:03 am: | |
Incidents like that can happen all the time around the globe. With every bad buy that is being caught, a hundred others get away.
It is difficult to expect an individual to fight a bitter battle like this against a collective establishment. It is difficult enough as it is for many people to save up sufficient money just to buy the car of their dream. They will be hard put to find extra resources to fight the professional tricksters.
I think perhaps Ferrari should act too, to protect its loyal supporters, and its own name. Ferrari should have a team of people to look into these complaints. If the bad guys are the dealers, Ferrari will have the clear leverage. Even if not, Ferrari can at least set up a list of approved repairers so as to keep its patrons well informed. |
Charles Barton (Airbarton)
New member
Username: Airbarton
Post Number: 44
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 8:02 am: | |
Luciano, I am very sorry to hear about your troubles. Ferrari ownership should be a joy not a dissapointment. I agree with the other guys you should take this matter to court. also, Randy is quite correct about the difficulty getting the money. You will probably have no problem getting a judgement against the shop but enforcing it will be another story entirely. My wife does a lot of small claims work for her company and after she gets the judgement she usually files a lien like Randy said, that almost always gets their attention and they pay. Good luck! |
Don Norton (Litig8r)
Junior Member
Username: Litig8r
Post Number: 120
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 7:52 am: | |
What shop is it? |
Randy (Schatten)
Member
Username: Schatten
Post Number: 478
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 7:31 am: | |
http://law.freeadvice.com/resources/smallclaimscourts.htm
Here's the link to small claims court from FreeAdvice.com. Please take them to court.
When you write a letter for a refund, make sure that you send it certified. That way, you have a receipt that they actually received it. Or else, they will lie and say they never got it.
You have all the Ferrari inspection sheets which tell what needs to be done. You just need to know what is wrong right now and what needs to be repaired. $5K *SHOULD* do it. And hopefully not a dime more.
Small claims court - cost for Illinois:
Claims of $250 or less --- $53.00
Claims of $251 to $500 --- $63.00
Claims of $501 to $2,500 --- $73.00
Claims of $2,501 to $5,000 --- $118.00
Not too shabby and well worth your time to get the job done right by the shop in Wisconsin. However, having it taken/towed to them might be an expense that will need to be figured into the just-under-$5K damage.
One last comment - its very difficult to get money out of shops like this, however profitable. Even if you do win. One friend won a similar case but its been several years and still not one dime. Myself, I have two shops that I'm currently going after for parts that were sent and not paid. These are reputable shops and I have all the documents. Best thing I can think of to do - take out a lein on their property. It might or might not be a feasable option.
I wish you the best of luck. You won't need much of it, but your baby needs to be running in harmony again very soon.
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Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
New member
Username: Kaz
Post Number: 33
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 5:36 am: | |
Luciano - Ernie is right - Take him to court.
First and foremost, take the car to Wisconsin and make it right!
I'm not a lawyer, but have taken people to court several times and never lost. I think the dollar limit for Small Claims in most states is $5K, so you're right there. It will only cost a few dollars to file and a few more to have him served.
1. Demand a refund in writing so you can take it to court with you as some kind of evidence.
2. Have Wisconsin give you something in writing of what is wrong with the car, or if they finished, a detailed invoice of what they had to do to make it right. Also to take to court with you.
I know there are two sides to every story, but based on what you have written, I can't see how a judge would not rule in your favor.
I don't want to start a flame and we have been through this before, but I think you should come out with this guy's name and allow him to respond with his side of the story - I think that is why we have these types of forums - to communicate and share information for the betterment of the members. My $.02 |
Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
Member
Username: Ernie
Post Number: 435
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 4:25 am: | |
Luciano my friend what you need to do is take this dude to court. |
luciano favero (Ontogenetic1007)
New member
Username: Ontogenetic1007
Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 11:43 pm: | |
Good evening,
Having just been shocked by a very catastrophic and damaging experience with a Ferrari
repair facility in the Chicago Area, I wish to share it with you, as a preventive and
per chance constructive measure.
I have recently purchased a Ferrari in excellent overall condition.
Two independent inspections revealed that required work consisted of carburetors
synchronization, two right front brake hoses and a rear valve cover seal.
Initially I had intended to service the car at a facility in Wisconsin
whose work and reputation I am acquainted with or LFSC.
Unfortunately both were fully booked at the time, and
thus, in the interest of avoiding winter's temperament,
the car was foolishly entrusted with another facility which I shall refrain
from naming presently.
I obtained a quote and time frame from them for performing the work mentioned
above. Both the cost and time frame matched others'.
The car was dropped off on a Monday. By Friday hardly any progress had been made.
The person (owner) I communicated with was polite and the reasons given plausible.
The situation extended into the second week. During this week the excuses
became more artistic, e.g. "I have locked myself out of the shop", etc.
I became somewhat concerned. I was assured innumerable times that the
car would be ready the next day. Yet Friday came again and the situation
had hardly progressed. The third week brought ever more excuses,
with little progress.
Realizing that the situation was quickly spiraling out of control,
and having become extremely suspicious of what this facility may be doing to
the car, I informed them I shall be picking the car up.
I was told that the car is not drivable, that many parts were removed from the car.
This situation continued for the entirety of the third week, until finally, exasperated and
concerned, I informed them I shall be telephoning the police. Shortly after, I received a
telephone call stating that the car is ready. Subsequently I was faxed a bill in excess of $4100,
After questioning the integrity of this bill, I was promised a complimentary major service.
Although the car is not due for a major service for another 20k+ miles,
the offer did appear to avoid a potential law suit.
However, a visual inspection of the car revealed that it had suffered
some cosmetic damage, some parts had been badly mounted on the car,
screws were missing, and the engine bonnet was dangling.
The real surprise was the mechanical condition of the car.
Again, prior to being "serviced" by this facility, the car
started immediately, and drove and idled excellently, with the exception of occasional
backfire when downshifting at above 3500 rpms and slight
hesitation in 3rd gear at approximately 3500 rpms.
The condition after receiving a $4000+ "service" from this facility
was, to be polite and quote the facility's owner, terrible.
The car proved very difficult to start, and the owner of this facility
made some rough adjustments on the spot (he indicated that he has to do the entire job over).
During the short drive home, the car stalled at almost every stop light,
smoked and made rattling, popping and generally embarrassing noises,
as I sadly glanced the tachometer dance frantically in the absence of any right foot motion.
Upon arrival home, I inspected the car more thoroughly.
I proceeded to start the car again and a vast cloud of white smoke
was emitted from the rear. I became very concerned that
the car is unsafe for myself and others, eg. that it may catch on fire.
I immediately drove back to said facility and requested that
the owner test drive the car. Upon doing so, he confirmed that
the car is in terrible shape and that he wouldn't drive it in that condition.
What a "pleasant" surprise!
I asked if he doesn't find it embarrassing (politely speaking)
that he kept the car hostage for three weeks and what he was able to accomplish is monstrous.
He reminded me that he offered a free major service and that he will
correct everything that needs to be corrected in _two days_, from Monday, November 25th to just before the Thanksgiving holidays.
I was perplexed to say the least; particularly the two days comment struck me as far too
outlandish, much more suited for fairy tales than the base surroundings of this firm.
I asked for a prompt refund. He refused, stating that I had already paid (hence the refund mister)
and that he will correct everything. He asked me to leave the car with him.
Naturally, I walked out, with the intention of rapidly escaping this Ferrari "repair" facility.
During my exit, one of his employees informed me that my car was used to provide
mechanic's lessons to a newly hired employee. I thought perhaps this is a "dream" after all, but
managed to seriously ask the owner if what the employee had indicated was true.
He confirmed - IT WAS TRUE!
A very absurd evening, I thought, as I entered my brutally wounded, sickly, sniffling,
very tearful Ferrari, and drove it slowly towards home, imploring the cover of night to
protect it from the laughter and index fingers of commuter automobile owners.
And sadly, for the first time, the question did not arise:
Shall I listen to Bach's Cello Suites or Maranello concertos.
In retrospect it is my wish I had never chanced upon this less than estimable Ferrari
"repair" facility, that I had never signed ... Naturally I also wish that this Ferrari "repair" facility,
never ever touches any of my cars, and possibly others'.
But, the damage has been done and it is cruel.
Have you any suggestions from experience or otherwise,
towards a speedy and pleasant resolution?
Best Regards, Luciano
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