Author |
Message |
Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Junior Member Username: Me_k
Post Number: 180 Registered: 5-2002
| Posted on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 11:12 pm: | |
LOL, That's probably true! |
Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re
Post Number: 434 Registered: 5-2001
| Posted on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 11:07 pm: | |
I don't think anybody would insure it if they saw that horrible interior. |
Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Junior Member Username: Me_k
Post Number: 179 Registered: 5-2002
| Posted on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 10:45 pm: | |
Frank, did your agent ask for the papers without any promting, or did you ask if they won't cover a grey market car? I've had a couple car that while not admitting any knowledge blah, blah, I never had a problem. They might be getting more allert though. Once they write the policy, and you didn't lie to get them to do it, I wouldn't expect a problem with claims. |
Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie
Post Number: 427 Registered: 5-2002
| Posted on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 6:25 pm: | |
If the insurance company denys your claim because it was a gray market car, will they return all the premium money that you paid them for years? I mean, if they took your money to insure the car and then they don't pay because of a hidden condition that they never asked about, don't they owe you your money back? |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 1544 Registered: 9-2001
| Posted on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 6:14 pm: | |
Mark ,missing DOT/EPA papers on a gray market car can be replaced for $18.00. Non-existance ones cannot. And, while Customs may not be out there looking for illegal gray market cars, insurance companies are out there denying claims for them all the time. So, if you buy a non-DOT/EPA gray market car, be prepared to self-insure it because if you have an accident and make a large claim, your insurance company can and will likely deny your claim. I just insured my Boxer and my agent ask for the DOT/EPA releases before giving me a quote. |
Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Junior Member Username: Me_k
Post Number: 178 Registered: 5-2002
| Posted on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 5:11 pm: | |
I know this opinion is in stark contrast to many who post here, but personally I drive my cars and don�t much care about the pedigree. If you want to own a perfect original car, this is cleanly not the car for you. It will cost a fortune to get to that condition. If all you want is a car that runs, it may very well to a good buy, but the engine needs to be tested and the chassis looked at. If you plan to do some customizing anyway, why buy a perfect car to ruin? I would add for euro, not subtract because they�re faster. Missing or non-existant DOT/EPA papers on a 20 year old mean basically nothing, it has a title and it�s pretty unlikely the Federal government is going to come looking for it. If the guy can do body work that he isn�t ashamed of, the paint and such will cost about $1500. The leather dye, maybe $500. I had my dash and arm rests recovered for $500. So if the engine and chassis are OK, he�ll drop about $3k making it look decent. If he end up needing to do the engine, there another $5k in parts. The work doesn�t all need to be done at once and it may not need to be done at all. Maybe price are different in other area�s, but I have seen nice carb cars for 27, but a nice QV is more like mid 30s. If I were in the market, I would seriously consider this car, but it needs a good inspection. |
Tillman Strahan (Tillman)
Junior Member Username: Tillman
Post Number: 173 Registered: 11-2001
| Posted on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 3:31 pm: | |
Sean, No, the timing was such that I couldn't go with my friend to look at it. All the info I have is through him. I know he's leaning toward buying it, but I'm concerned that he'll get into a money pit and hate Ferrari cars thereafter. |
Sean Ruckel (Sruckel)
Junior Member Username: Sruckel
Post Number: 115 Registered: 10-2001
| Posted on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 1:58 pm: | |
I just realized who's car this is... I was considering one of his other cars that is being sold. Tillman - have you seen this or any of the others for sale in person? |
Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson
Post Number: 836 Registered: 12-2001
| Posted on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 12:00 pm: | |
How? No dot papers, questionable title, euro, need of paint, questionable mileage, absent service records, in need of body work, changed interior, not to mention probably in need of mechanical work. If he is doing all of the work himself it will save but the $$$ will not every be full recovered. You said it yourself $8K for a good paint job now your up to $19K, no records, questionable title mileage the price isn't rising thats for sure. I don't think it even has the stock wheels. It is his money but I don't see it being a good value from any stand point. I think a decent QV for $27 is much better. No hard to do the math. |
Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Junior Member Username: Me_k
Post Number: 177 Registered: 5-2002
| Posted on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 6:34 am: | |
If it were a 2v, I'd agree with the 11-13, but for a QV I really think it's worth a little more. Again, only as long as the engine is in good running order, frame is straight,.... It's a good candidate for a track car or hotrod, not so much a restoration. |
Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson
Post Number: 835 Registered: 12-2001
| Posted on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 5:47 am: | |
I noticed that you wanted a figure. What happened to the car from 97 on? Was it in a accident? If he has to buy this car $11K would be tops. This is assuming it has a clear title but without any other info on Carfax it might have a rebuilt title or ?. Have you looked at the title? Is it clean or is it a bill of sale or salvage title? If it is a salvage title run you are wasting your time. If it is an auction bill of sale run also. (in this case you may have a hard time registering the car) Try to get him to have some patience and keep looking. I still wouldn't go above 11K even if the rest checks out. |
Brian W Dimetres (Acnberlin)
New member Username: Acnberlin
Post Number: 48 Registered: 11-2002
| Posted on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 4:24 am: | |
I just looked at a nearly perfect 1978 308 GTB from Switzerland, red/black, flawless original pait work, all records and just a little wear on the carpet, advertised for the equivalent of US$21,000. Using that car as a benchmark, and given all the work the blue car requires, not to metion the unknowns about it,I would guess it has to be worth between $10-13,000. |
Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
New member Username: Kaz
Post Number: 35 Registered: 11-2002
| Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 4:48 pm: | |
Tillman - CarFax First record - Registered 7/93 - Richardson Tx 11/3/97 - Failed emissions - Dallas 11/7/97 - Passed emissions - Richardson Tx " " - Odometer 83,742 No other records..... |
Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Junior Member Username: Me_k
Post Number: 176 Registered: 5-2002
| Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 3:06 pm: | |
It's always cheaper to just buy a nice car. But often the budget doesn't allow that. If you enjoy the time you spend working on it, well then the time isn't really lost. So to the questions. The squeal is probably just the alternator/water pump belt. It is a common problem and must be kept very tight. If you drive the car with this noise you will end up walking home, tighten it. It is very unlikely that the fads are going to care much about a 20 year old car with missing epa papers. The interior is the ugliest I�ve ever seen, plan about 1k for materials if you redye the leather and recover the dash. Paint costs about 8k to get a good job, but it sounds like your friend is going to do that. You should get the engine warm and do a compression and leak-down test. If they come back good, I would put the value between 15-20k.
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JRV (Jrvall)
Junior Member Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 169 Registered: 11-2002
| Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 3:01 pm: | |
I suppose you wanted more specific info, like #'s. General Guidelines on service/repair costs of a less than nice 308...all years. 1) Bring to current, quality mechanical condition, engine & chassis = $10K-$15K 2) Paint & Bodywork = $5K 3) Quality Redone Interior = $5K General Time Frame for above = 4-6 months if everthing is being done somewhat simultaniously. General miss on original guesstimates 10%-50%. |
Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson
Post Number: 834 Registered: 12-2001
| Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 2:48 pm: | |
Why is he interested in this car? I know he is trying to save a few bucks but this isn't they way to do it. I agree with what has already been said, run. Unless he doesn't care about putting lots of $$$ in it then if the extra $$$ are available why not buy a nicer car? JMHO. |
JRV (Jrvall)
Junior Member Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 167 Registered: 11-2002
| Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 2:22 pm: | |
Hmmmmm...where do these guys with 'money is no object' fixing up a piece of junk I have to buy cheap come from? From what you descibe, combined with what I've seen the reality to be, of beat up, worn out, poorly serviced 308's...if someone gave him the car for free it's unlikely he could restore it "properly & completely" and get his money back (without finding a sucker & misrepresenting the car upon sale). Unless...he is an Expert and gives every minute of labor away for free. Junk is worth what the parts can be hocked on ebay for imo. The rule of thumb I use for my clients is, "real" market value (not fantasy asking prices or hit a home run sucker buyer) minus everything that is used up, not simply used. Deduct for Blue & White, deduct for Euro, Run Forest Run for No Papers. ;-) |
Tillman Strahan (Tillman)
Junior Member Username: Tillman
Post Number: 172 Registered: 11-2001
| Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 2:00 pm: | |
Greetings, A buddy of mine is looking at a "project" 308, and I was hoping to get a bit of advice for him here. I know (and he knows) that the best thing to do is buy a car that doesn't need work, but sometimes things don't work out that way. The car he's looking at is an 83 QV GTS. It's a euro car that does have a Texas title, but the current owner doesn't know anything about the DOT and EPA releases. It has 80,000Km on it. It's a repainted midnight blue with an aftermarket white interior. Theoretically the latest owner did the servicing himself, including a whole new FI system and all the belts. It appears to run and drive OK, although there's a squeal from the right side of the motor. There's a bad dent in the driver's door, including a large amount of surface rust, and appears to be rust in the lower door panels and in the engine cover. Aftermarket 16 inch wheels that are so-so. My friend's a good amateur paint-and-body man, so he's not too concerned about the rust and bad repaint, and he plans on dyeing the interior a better color. Thoughts on the value? I know, run away and buy another car, but let's assume he wants to buy this one. What would you pay? BTW: can anyone run a carfax on ZFFLA138(maybe B)000047047? Pics are at http://www.strahan.org/308project/
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