| Author |
Message |
Mike Zimmerman (Spike308)
New member
Username: Spike308
Post Number: 9
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 8:56 am: | |
David -
I live just outside Chicago, so I am trolling the whole country for "my" 308. I have not contacted Peter yet. The 34K 308 was more in my price range, but I guess it is gone. I am going to start a new string, asking about Park Place. There is a lot of smack going around this site about the places if Florida, If I get the same garbage about Park Place, I will not waste my time.
anyone have a great red/tan 84/85 QV that they want to unload? |
David S (Djs308)
Junior Member
Username: Djs308
Post Number: 75
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 9:29 pm: | |
Bill V,
Thanks for the heads-up. I got your e-mail. Just sent you a return message.
Mike Z- About Park Place's 308, I saw the car on their website. Not sure but I think it may have an accident or two in it's history. It's also on the wrong coast for where I am. The 308 at Forza selling for $34k was sold a little while ago. They haven't updated their webads yet. It is no longer on the Forza website. They have the high mileage 85, an 83 and one other 308 (needs assembly) on their site. Have you had any successful contact yet with Peter about the 85 that is still for sale? |
Mike Zimmerman (Spike308)
New member
Username: Spike308
Post Number: 8
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 7:24 pm: | |
Greg -
i'll post the VINs when I get 'em...
you have a story about one or two of them??? |
Bill V (Doc)
Junior Member
Username: Doc
Post Number: 232
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 5:18 pm: | |
I've been fine, Greg--how about yourself? I''ve been surrounded by 2-3 ft of snow and bone-chilling temps for the the past 2 1/2 months--not much driving lately! I assume your weather's significantly better and I hope both of your beautiful 308's are running well. |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 641
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 1:57 pm: | |
Mike what is the VIN and year on the QV you are looking at?
Hey Bill how are you? |
Mike Zimmerman (Spike308)
New member
Username: Spike308
Post Number: 7
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 1:55 pm: | |
Bill V -
I sent you an e-mail. Hope you got it. You own my dream car!
David S -
Have you checked out the 308 at Park Place Ltd in Washington? They recently dropped the price to sub 35K. The "quattrovalvolve" decal is missing... wrecked??? Has anyone else checked out this car?? What about their (Park Place Ltd) reputation?
Several other 84/85s have popped up on the radar too.
David... are you looking for a US car? I am. I just like the US bumper better, also theoretically avoid emissions trouble, but if they have been here 20 years, it is hard to imagine major problems... I could be wrong.
Forza also has a 308 for 34K. Anyone seen it?
I am really getting trigger finger, and feel the need to have my first italian machine in my garage. Maybe I should be sedated. |
Bill Van Dyne (Doc)
Junior Member
Username: Doc
Post Number: 231
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 8:48 am: | |
Dave--I sent you a personal email re: my car. Did you receive it? Mine is an '85 US spec, red/tan in superb condition. |
Rijk Rietveld (Rijk365gtb4)
Junior Member
Username: Rijk365gtb4
Post Number: 120
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 7:39 am: | |
I know that buying at a dealer is more expensive, especially at a Ferrari dealer. However, I do it anyway, because I want the 3 month-3000mi warrantee. If you buy the wrong car, it is just a bottemless pit.
Rijk |
David S (Djs308)
Junior Member
Username: Djs308
Post Number: 74
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 10:40 pm: | |
Mike Z-
I don't have a link for the Forza inventory list. I think I got on it automatically when I e-mailed Peter a few years ago about a different car he had. He DID respond to that inquiry.
Originally I was considering any 80-85 GTS. Now I figure that I might as well get the one I truly want and not just settle for a 2V or off-color. That would be the US spec 84-85 red/tan QV. Check Bill V's profile. Yeah that's the one!! Nice 308 Bill!
I haven't looked into the $31k 308 that Peter has other than my attempted e-mails. But again, if that turns out to be the rumored "title" problem car, I would pass. Don't need legal problems with cars, thank you. If it has no legal problem, I STILL want to know why nobody else has grabbed it yet in the year Peter has had it for sale? It's priced very well for an 85 even with 45k miles. Anybody here on the board go and see this 308 in person?
Also, they just put up an 83 QV for sale. It looks fabulous (except for the fog lights, ugly). Price is $39k. Too much for merely an 83 IMO (nice as it is). It's great looking, don't get me wrong but I prefer the 84-85 if I were to be spending $39k. But that's just me. |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 632
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 4:04 pm: | |
I have seen 308s restored. Not all are parted out. Read the rest of my post. I don't buy from dealers but many people do. Why do people buy new cars from the dealership when then lose a thousand right after they drive it off the lot???? I am not saying it is right but it happens a lot. Many pay more for a car that is from a dealer. Same reason why they take their car to the dealer to get serviced. When in most cases the newer mechanics work at the dealerships. They feel more comfortable there. |
Horsefly (Arlie)
Member
Username: Arlie
Post Number: 675
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 3:41 pm: | |
"Many people feel more secure buying from a dealer and feel the car has been inspected properly. "
Now why is that? Haven't we seen from postings on this board that MANY dealers are as crooked as a dog's hind leg. If you're trusting somebody just because they have a dealer's license hanging on the wall, then you're living dangerously.
Of course buying a Ferrari is different from buying a Corvette. Old Corvette enthusiasts wouldn't think of parting out a vintage Corvette just because it has some body damage or engine trouble. But how ironic that a 308 Ferrari, far rarer than the average Corvette, is so quickly parted out just BECAUSE it is so expensive to repair. That doesn't sound like much appreciation for a car bearing the prancing horse logo; that sounds like somebody wanting to make a quick buck on Ferrari parts.
|
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 625
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 3:30 pm: | |
I understand what you are saying but buying a Ferrari is different IMHO. Buying a vintage Corvette and then having engine trouble not a very expensive problem. Now on the other hand the Ferrari it is different. Many people feel more secure buying from a dealer and feel the car has been inspected properly. Would I buy from a dealer? No, I purchased all of my cars from individuals but I don't think buying a vette and a Ferrari are the same thing. |
Horsefly (Arlie)
Member
Username: Arlie
Post Number: 674
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 3:22 pm: | |
I guess that Ferrari guys are alot different from other collector car guys. I know alot of vintage Corvette guys, and none of them ever buy their cars from some big dealer. They search the newspaper adds, network among themselves, swap tales about cars in barns, etc. Strange that the Ferrari guys seem to always want to drive up to some dealership and "pay the piper". The only local Ferrari guy that I know of, another list member, bought his car directly from the owner also. He didn't need anybody to do the research for him.
As for "dealer only" auctions, where do you think those dealers get those cars to take to the auction? Trade ins? Yes. If you look in the back lot of any car dealership, you will see the stuff that people trade in. And if you see something that you like, I haven't seen a dealer yet that wouldn't take a decent offer on that car before it gets hauled to the wholesale auction or his buddie's "lower end" used car lot. I've seen 60s Corvettes, MGs, old Chevys, kit cars, vintage iron, all kinds of interesting stuff in the back lots of dealerships. You just have to do the work and research. A good job doesn't come knocking on your door; neither does a good collector car.
|
Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member
Username: Hardtop
Post Number: 399
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 10:40 am: | |
Arlie,
Used car dealers perform a number of vital functions in the marketplace.
For instance, if you need to sell a car quick, they have checkbooks ready. If you don't want the hassle of selling a car yourself, they can do the job for you. If you are buying, but have to trade, they are willing to take it. If you need financing, they can arrange it. Most can be a source of valuable info. Most of the time, there is less risk buying from a dealer because they have to stand by the product to some degree (varies state to state).
If you want to quit your job, start a car business, face all the risks from market and economic uncertainties, then, you may be able to buy your dream car at wholesale. Otherwise, don't complain.
BTW, I am not a dealer. I have bought cars from dealers and private parties, so no axe to grind here.
Dave |
Mike Zimmerman (Spike308)
New member
Username: Spike308
Post Number: 3
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 10:15 am: | |
David S- can you pass along the link to get on Peters inventory e-mail list?
Regarding auctions... My next door neighbor spends his days buying higher end cars (MB,BMW, occ Bentley) at auctions, selling them to local authorized dealers. A lot of them are 2-3 years old, coming off a lease. They have a fee for service group that will inspect the car for you. If you buy one, later you find a problem, say a Carfax issue, you can force the auction to force the original seller to buy it back, plus any $$ you may have put into it. Car salesme will tell you anything.. "locally owned car... etc" most of it is bull, unless you look at the service records. He has offered to try to locate me a Ferrari, but I, like David S, have been waiting 20 years, and buying one should not be a spur of the moment thing.
David S - what about the 31K red 308 that Forza has... have you looked into that one? What are you looking for? |
Mitchel DeFrancis (4re308)
Member
Username: 4re308
Post Number: 751
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 9:48 am: | |
Mike, I have known Peter Sweeney for many years. He is a great guy! When I bought my 308 I took it to Bill Pollards Sport Auto in Connecticut for a PPI, Petes shop is right next door. He rode a bicycle over to see me and the car at Bills shop. He is a lot of fun, he certainly knows his Ferraris and Maseratis. Anyone in the area, please go see Bill Pollard and Pete Sweeney, they both come HIGHLY recommended from me! NICE NICE GUYS!
|
Bill V. (Doc)
Junior Member
Username: Doc
Post Number: 229
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 8:59 am: | |
Ditto here--during my search for a 308, I visited Forza a number of times and found Peter to be a very up-front, honest guy. Also, one of the best Ferrari mechanics in the Northeast , Bill Pollard of Sport Auto, is just around the corner from Forza, so ppi's can be accomplished without any hassle or travel. |
Dan B. (Dan_the_man)
Junior Member
Username: Dan_the_man
Post Number: 81
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 12:18 am: | |
I have asked questions to Peter in the past about a 308 that he had for sale. He seemed very up front about what issues there were with the car.
Also, When I was looking for my 308 I found it on E-bay. A car lot here in my state had it listed. I drove to the lot, inspected the car, and made a deal. I wrote a check and he canceled the auction while I waited there. He had a disclaimer in his auction, I had no problems with it, and if the high bidder felt like he was going to loose out he should have called the dealer and bought it for the lot price. I feel like if the individual reserves the right to sell to a walk up and you don't like it then don't bid.
"One in the hand is worth two in the bush".
Dan |
David S (Djs308)
Junior Member
Username: Djs308
Post Number: 73
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 11:48 pm: | |
Well, Horsefly, that would certainly be the optimal way to go. Just cut out all the middlemen and save some $$. One reason I like this board is that we can share info just like that and if a car goes up for sale, the folks here on the board will usually get first crack at it.
Now, as far as the dealers go, I've been told by a few of them that most of the cars they get, come from "dealer only" auctions. OK, now how am I supposed to get in on that?? Also, many are wholesaled to these dealers who then turn around and retail them to buyers. Good for them, not so good for the next buyer.
Soooooooo, if you know of anyone ready to sell their mint 84-85 red/tan 308GTS QV in the NY area, I'd be very happy to learn more about it. Otherwise, I will keep checking the websites inventory until something turns up. I'm patient... |
Horsefly (Arlie)
Member
Username: Arlie
Post Number: 669
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 9:08 pm: | |
Does anybody ever actually locate their own car instead of putting up with dealer shenanigans? Unless you're some high dollar dude and your time is worth big bux, why can't you, the potential buyer, track down a car BEFORE the dealer does and therefore eliminate having to pay his markup?
A dealer isn't some sort of mystic Svengali with unworldly powers. He uses a telephone just like everybody else. Why not educate yourself, develope your own contacts, and find the car yourself?
|
David S (Djs308)
Junior Member
Username: Djs308
Post Number: 69
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 8:52 pm: | |
Speaking of title problems I have my own interesting story during my quest to find a 308.
I went to look at an 82GTSi about a year ago (different dealer). Car looked to be in good shape. Fresh off a service. Just minor cosmetics needed. Would have gone for a PPI when Carfax showed a problem. Turns out there was an odometer rollback issue.The record showed 12k miles one year. Next year it showed 124,000 miles and then a month later, back to 16k. Sounds like someone didn't know how to type when the car was inspected. The dealer assured me he could get that fixed. WRONG!! To get it fixed, the DMV would have to change it Sure, except for one thing, they NEVER change those records even if you have proof!
I politely declined to purchase the car. I was bummed out for a while but in hindsight, I was rushing to get that car. I overlooked some small red flags (like dealer not having the records, his mechanic had them). The car was selling over book value too. Wasn't worth it, after all was said and done. Last thing I would want is a Ferrari I couldn't ever sell because of a red flag on Carfax that couldn't be removed.
Oh well, I've waited 20 years, I can easily wait some more... |
David S (Djs308)
Junior Member
Username: Djs308
Post Number: 68
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 8:41 pm: | |
That's an interesting story about a 308 with a title issue. Just might be the story here. Too bad, it's a good price on an 85 QV.
Regarding the more expensive 308 they just sold: It had 15k fewer miles. I checked the online photos VERY carefully. They were definitely NOT the same for both 308's! Both appear to be in good shape but there were noticeable differences if you looked closely. For example, the current car has a metric spare tire (michelin). The other did not. Also, the other car had a misaligned center louver in the hood.
Anyway, ironic thing about the e-mail issue is that I am currently on Peter's e-mail list for inventory updates. I receive those just fine!! Other than that, from reading Forza magazine, I DO think Peter is honorable and "tells it like it is". I just wish I were closer to his shop so I could see the cars...
BTW, I have also noticed the 308 on the Vintage Car website as well. It looks fantastic. Personally, I have two problems with that particular 308: The price, and the Euro front spoiler. I'd be scraping my driveway every day with that low front end!! The price started VERY high and recently was lowered. Then lowered again. Now it is just merely high. Maybe if I wait a little longer it would become reasonable. I doubt they would be willing to budge much unless the car sits for another 6 months. If still there at that time, MAYBE I'd go check it out. |
william speer (Wspeer)
Junior Member
Username: Wspeer
Post Number: 135
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 7:01 pm: | |
is it possible that the 308 that you are talking about is the one that peter wrote an article about in sports car market about a year or so ago. the car he was writing about was sold to him with some type of title problem. the jist of the article was to be careful when you buy a car that has an out of state title. the article also detailed all the problems he was going to have to go through to get the title problem rectified before he could sell the car. just for the record, i have never had a problem with peter emailing me back. most of the situations were involving ebay auctions and i simply clicked the "ask the seller a question" prompt. |
Mike Zimmerman (Spike308)
New member
Username: Spike308
Post Number: 2
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 5:11 pm: | |
David S -
I e-mailed the Forza site multiple times in the past, never got a response. This guy sounds like a straight shooter... especially if you read about some of the other scam artists that are discussed on this site
Mike Z |
Robert McNair (Rrm)
Junior Member
Username: Rrm
Post Number: 201
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 9:03 pm: | |
I was curious about that 308 qv as well David. I looked at the pictures of both of them when he had the other one and couldn't see much of a diffrence. It is strange that the more expensive one sold. I have spoken to Peter before and he did give full disclosure on the cars I asked about so I imagine if you talk to him he will give you the straight scoop on the car. I have been watching other 308's at other dealers and they don't seem to be moving either. There is a nice looking one at vintage car store of nyack also. |
David S (Djs308)
Junior Member
Username: Djs308
Post Number: 67
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 8:52 pm: | |
Mike Z,
I'm in the same exact boat as you. I have been checking out the Forza website for a number of years. I too am looking for an 84-85 308. They had one sold off a couple of months ago. One is still listed there for a decent price. My problem here is that this particular 308 has been listed for around a year now!! Makes me wonder what kind of "stories" it might have in its history. Since the price is low, it's got to be a red flag if nobody has grabbed it in a FULL YEAR. I'd like to go see it but I don't live close by.
Also, I have tried contacting Peter via e-mail at least 3 times about this particular car. I have not yet received a single response. Granted, there could be a problem with his e-mail not getting my messages but I have not had a problem with anybody else getting mail from me. Sure, I could just pick up the phone and call (that would be the easy thing to do, wouldn't it?). The whole thing just seems fishy about that particular 308. I have seen other very fine looking cars come and go but I'm more interested in his 308QVs.
Good luck Mike, hope you find one too! |
Horsefly (Arlie)
Member
Username: Arlie
Post Number: 656
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 8:52 pm: | |
But what are you going to do when 2 or 3 days into an auction, somebody walks onto the lot in person and buys the car? You're going to have a bunch of disgusted bidders when they find out they've been bidding on a car that was gone days before. Not cool. Then what good word will they have to say about the seller the next time he has something on E-Bay? Hmmmmmm???
|
Robert McNair (Rrm)
Junior Member
Username: Rrm
Post Number: 200
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 8:32 pm: | |
I haven't bought from Forza but have asked around about Peter Sweeney and have yet to hear anything negative. He has been around for quite a while I can remember seeing his ads in hemmings I believe back all the way into the 80's. Same location etc. As far as him advertising on e-bay as well as listing his cars I see nothing wrong with that. E-bay is just another tool to bring buyers and sellers together. |
djmonk (Davem)
Junior Member
Username: Davem
Post Number: 170
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 7:19 pm: | |
It's a free world Arlie. I spoke to Peter about the Lambo Countach he had on E-bay. Twice he got burned by the high bidder.
This has been discussed before but most view E-bay as an introduction tool, at least when it comes to exotic's.
Who knows maybe in a perfect world where people would honor thier bids we could just use E-bay. |
Horsefly (Arlie)
Member
Username: Arlie
Post Number: 651
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 7:07 pm: | |
But I have noticed the Forza/weblobby guy auctioning cars on E-Bay at the same time that he lists them on his web site. That's not too cool to me. You are either selling a car at auction, or you are selling it to whoever walks up to your business. You can't do both at the same time. And just because you cover yourself with microscopic print on your E-Bay auction listing isn't too cool either. Just make up your mind: auction or straight sale.
|
djmonk (Davem)
Junior Member
Username: Davem
Post Number: 169
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 7:02 pm: | |
No we are talking about Sportauto an Peter Sweeney in New Milford CT. |
Greg Owens (Owens84qv)
Member
Username: Owens84qv
Post Number: 635
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 6:58 pm: | |
If Peter is right around the corner from Sport Auto, is this the same Sport Auto in NC? |
Anthony A. (Yank05)
Junior Member
Username: Yank05
Post Number: 114
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 5:50 pm: | |
Mike,
I have never bought from FORZA Motorsports, but have talked and visited with Peter a number of times during my carb.308 search. I have heard good things about him and he seems to be a nice, straight-forward guy.
Also, right around the corner from his shop is Sport Auto. This is Bill Pollard's shop. He is one of the best Ferrari mechanics around - very knowledgable and always willing to answer any questions about the cars. You should stop by to see him too.
Anthony |
djmonk (Davem)
Junior Member
Username: Davem
Post Number: 166
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 5:48 pm: | |
Peter is a great guy!
Ive been to his place to look at a car which i passed on. I also have asked his help on more than one occasion, he has always been very helpful an friendly an never made a dime off me. |
william speer (Wspeer)
Junior Member
Username: Wspeer
Post Number: 134
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 4:09 pm: | |
you are talking about peter sweeney. he goes by "user581" on ebay. i have bought many things from him over ebay and never had a problem. you will also notice that in the majority of the forza buyer's guides, he is one of the people they quote for prices and problems with certain models. |
Mike Zimmerman (Spike308)
New member
Username: Spike308
Post Number: 1
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 3:33 pm: | |
does anyone know much about these guys?? (Forza.weblobby.com)
I am actively looking for a red/tan 84/85 308, these guys always seem to have a couple, for a price that is at the lower end of the market.
I would appreciate some advice. |