| Author | Message | ||
| A.Tonokaboni (Senna1994)
Junior Member Username: Senna1994 Post Number: 100 Registered: 9-2002 |
Last night driving back to Orange County from Los Angeles on the 101 Fwy I spotted a Sports Car with a Michigan Manufacturers plate. At first pulling up I didn't think it was a Ferrari because of 1 big round tail light on each side. But the closer I got, I realized it was the FORD GT in prototype black (matte) paint. Unfortunately my wife did not have her camera in the car. The car sounded stunning when the driver downshifted for upcoming traffic and the proportions were "Perfect". I was very excited to see it and as rough prototype (aluminum bare bumper) it looked awesome. | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 676 Registered: 2-2002 |
Here is a response to the Dennig e-mail from a high ranking SVT official: The Dennig press release is baloney. All Ford GT vehicles will be distributed only through franchised Ford dealers, and the dealers have not even received their allocations. Therefore it is impossible for this broker to "promise" availability of any number of cars, much less 8 of the first 20. I would think that anyone in the market for a Ford GT knows the difference between a franchised Ford dealer and a broker. Potential customers can enter their email address at the Ford GT page on the www.fordvehicles.com site for updates on the program. They should be wary of information obtained from any source other than Ford or their Ford dealer. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 472 Registered: 10-2002 |
So far as I know the 427 was never accepted by the FIA so Shelby moved on to SCCA. By 66 Ford was more interested in the GT40 and after winning LeMans with a car made entirely in America (MKIV) the factory backed out and left it to privateers, as did Ferrari. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Junior Member Username: Psk Post Number: 98 Registered: 11-2002 |
James, 1966 was a good year for Ford at Le Mans  , but what happened to the GT battle, ie: Ferrari versus Shelby? ... or did the series change. The other question that has me wondering is why was the 427 Cobra not accepted for homogation?, just curious ... or did Enzo have something to do with that All in all must have been an interesting time for American motorracing fans. Infact the 60's have to be the pinicle of motor sport and car design (pre safety bs). Pete | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 466 Registered: 10-2002 |
Pete Ford finished 1-2-3 at LeMans in 66. Ferrari never finished 1st at LeMans again. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 646 Registered: 3-2002 |
pete, to answer your final question...unfortunately they need to sell cars, and since the f1 program is not really followed by the average buying public in america, they need to make a splash there that the locals will get excited about. so they decided to build a supercar. and as for getting into le mans, well one failed racing program is probably all they can stomach at the moment. and at least when you are winning in f1, the glow lasts a few months, whereas in lemans class, the only race that gets a mention outside of the petrolhead circles is le mans, so not as big a bang for the buck if your target audience is into mustangs and broncos. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Junior Member Username: Psk Post Number: 97 Registered: 11-2002 |
James, What happened in 1966? Pete | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 463 Registered: 10-2002 |
Pete You're right both, the mid engine 250LM and the 427 Cobra were turned down in 65 by the Holomogation committee. " The result was that the battle for the 1965 GT championship would be fought with 1964 weaponry" (289 Cobra Coupes vrs 250 GTO's) which Shelby's Cobra's won. (Quotes Dave Friedman.) Best Jim | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Junior Member Username: Psk Post Number: 96 Registered: 11-2002 |
James, That is not how I thought it worked:
My understanding is that Ferrari got away with this with the 250GT to the 250GTO, but with the 250LM he was denied ... which pissed him considerably and the LM had to race in a different class (sportscars or prototypes instead of GT's), where it was not as competitive (relatively speaking, as it still did okay). Anyway I think most people think of Ford as the shopping car and do not know about 'Total Performance' and the rallying, Le Mans and other non-American based history. Cars like the Ford Sierra Cosworth, Ford F1 engine (okay they only paid for that ... but atleast they got involved, unlike GM) + BDA (Cosworth 4 cylinder race engines, and other versions ... just awesome), Escort (rallying, Mk1, Mk2, BDA, etc.), Lotus Cortinas, Zakspeed and RS Cosworth Capris. In the end Ford know how to do it if they want to ... but why they built an old fashioned NEW GT40 I don't understand ... why not sort out their F1 team or enter Le Mans again and make a spirtual successor to the LEGENDARY GT40? Pete | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 454 Registered: 10-2002 |
Legacy? 1901 H Ford 25 Mile Detroit Cup 1902 Barney Oldfield 999 Grosse Point 5 Mile 1903 Barney Oldfield 999 World Record Mile 1904 Herny Ford World record Mile 1905 Ford 6 Detroit 24 Hours 1909 Ford 6 New York to Seattle (That race took 20 days) I could go on. There are many great Marques. Ford is one of them. | ||
| Travis Brown (Porschephile)
New member Username: Porschephile Post Number: 1 Registered: 2-2003 |
The Gt40 was a great car. Yes it's Ford but, it was still a great car. I am not a fan of Ford but I do admire the Gt40. This whole thing about Enzo being ruthless isn't completely one-sided though. I remember the 250LM was banned at one point due to a last minute rule change that Shelby was able to get passed by the FIA, I believe. Apparently he was afraid of the 250LM and knew it would put up a serious fight. As Ernesto said earlier, I think we can all agree that Porsche is still the king of LeMans. Yes, the Gt40 was great, but put it against the Porsche 917 and there is no competition! I still love Ferrari but, Porsche is my first love. As far as the new Ford GT, I'm not expecting too much. It will probably be great for what it is but, I'm more of a classic car guy. I'd take an old Gt40 over a new one. Just like I'd take a 275gtb over a newer 355. New cars just don't do it for me like the classics. Dave Wapinski, as for that email, I think they over-exaggerated just a little. The gt40 was definitely a great car, and certainly earned it's place in history. Though, it is by no means a benchmark to measure the success of all others?!!?! Come on, as good as that car was, it cannot compare to the likes of Porsche and Ferrari. The gt40 was one car. I can think of a ton of Porsches and Ferraris that are better benchmarks for performance/success in racing then the gt40! Porsche 917, 917/30, 956/962, etc. Ferrari 250tr, 250gto, 365gtb Daytona, etc. Saying any one car is greater than the legacy that is Porsche or Ferrari is just plain ignorance! | ||
| Jaime Torres (Chevarri)
New member Username: Chevarri Post Number: 12 Registered: 1-2003 |
Hey James thats the exact same thing I was thinkg of what Shelby brought to the committe, but Ferrari was adamant they were variants of the 250 and 275. Oh yes Shelby was right about coming back and beating their arse next year, man of his word eh? Hey Neb, I can attest to the backwords Ford acronym, "Driver Returns On Foot" Ouch for me  | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 445 Registered: 10-2002 |
Scared is not a word I've heard used to describle either of them. Ferrari contended that the 250LM and 275LM were simply variants of the 250GT therefore were already homologated. Shelbly felt that these were a completely new car and thus 25 had to be built before they could race in the GT class. The FIA sided with Ferrari. IMHO the FIA was wrong but in the end it did not matter as Shelby beat them anyway. | ||
| Jaime Torres (Chevarri)
New member Username: Chevarri Post Number: 11 Registered: 1-2003 |
I might be wrong, and Im pretty sure might I be because well you are all much knowledgeable in Fcar hist. Yes I knew about the Enzo and Monza incident. Enzo was a ruthless and maniupaltive biz man do get what he wanted(you gotta love him for it). Shelby also tried to get the I belive 250's (Im not sure) banned because, rules regulated that cars must meet a certain production number. He tried to convince the committe of that. Shelby and Ferrari had a thing for quite a while though. Their is a book my friend has over Ferrari hist that qoutes Mr.Shleby about how scared he was of Ferrai.And, how he would kick Enzos arse. I'll get the book title later. Also, I stand corrected they didnt have a World Mfgts Cup running before the Cobra. But I dont think FORD liked it much anyway(I know I wouldnt). Look at it this way, Im big enough to stand corrected even though I have different facts. Not may guys are willing to admit that. All in all their indeed was a big rivalry between the two. | ||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
New member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 43 Registered: 12-2002 |
Edward, This would mean I'd have to "buy" the car with the actual buyer on the title and then sell my share to them... and for what? Much easier just to tell the dealer I don't want the car. Also, I'm buying another vehicle from the dealer, so if I let them keep my SRT, they sell it for some big $$ and I get a great price on the car I'm buying. I think MSRP is one of the best deals going on an SRT... if you're a serious buyer I'm sure you know what people are asking for the cars. I've got many people who "want the car" (even offering >MSRP) but I just want someone to commit to buying it (in writing) so I can not have to worry about it when it comes in. I'll take your 96 GTS as a $35k payment towards the SRT if you want. | ||
| Edward (Edward_96gts)
New member Username: Edward_96gts Post Number: 5 Registered: 8-2002 |
srtmike,Cert price=The price negotiated w/ the dealer w/ certificate. How 'bout it, help out a poor fellow vca member? | ||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
New member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 42 Registered: 12-2002 |
Edward, What do you mean "the cert price"? You mean my contract price on the car? I will let someone have it for MSRP. | ||
| Edward (Edward_96gts)
New member Username: Edward_96gts Post Number: 4 Registered: 8-2002 |
Having friends connected to the people developing the new Ford GT affords some inside info. Current concerns are: 1) Weight, target is 2800-3000 lbs. Currently it's at 3400. Ford is wranglong over selling it at 3400 lbs in the low $100k or using exotic materials and sell for ~$160k. 2) No luggage space- not even for a helmet. They need to add more storage space. A bubble roof may also be added so helmet does not hit roof. 3)It's now 45" tall instead of 44". 4)May need to raise nose for proper bumper height/protection. 5) Rear clam shell will greatly increase production costs(ala Viper). I saw this car in person and it is MUCH larger than an original gt40. It seems loooong. I still want one though. Trying to get on a list w/ a contract. No dealers will committ to X over msrp(w/in reason). SRTMIKE, I'll take that srt-10 off you hands for cert price. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 404 Registered: 10-2001 |
I can't wait for my Road&Track 2004 Baby Lambo, Ford GT 40, Ferrari 360 Shoot-out Just like 1990 when NSX took Ferrari up a notch.. this new batch of bad-ass cars will force Ferrari to work a little harder. We all win, thanks Ford and Audi | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 703 Registered: 5-2002 |
And the other side of the coin: Ferrari: for over 60 years has built limited amounts of very expensive cars that win races throughout automotive history. Ford: for over 100 years has built millions and millions of automobiles that provide transportation and material transport for millions and millions of families and businesses AND military defense thereby helping provide for the contiuning econominc well being and freedom for multiple generations in America and throughout the world. Now which race is it that REALLY counts? Different automotive strokes for different folks, but one must give considerable credit where credit is due. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1156 Registered: 2-2001 |
What really matters is very different for all of us... Ernesto | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 421 Registered: 10-2002 |
Neb It's always important to realize what really matters... Best | ||
| Nebula Class (Nebulaclass)
Junior Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 186 Registered: 11-2002 |
Yeah, but James, you are forgetting that Ford MUST suck because it is so easy to make cool and insulting acronyms out of the name. I mean, based on that ALONE means that the car sucks, right? | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 419 Registered: 10-2002 |
Ford's victory in a race car he designed, built, and drove convinced investors to give him the money to start the Co that still 100 years later bears his name. Ford has won many, many motorsports races including LeMans, Indy, Nascar, World rally, FI, NHRA, etc... When Ford deceided to build a car in Dearborn (The MK-IV) that would win LeMans he had the juice to stop Brunswick Aerospace's bomber production to get them to built the first composit tub at at $250,000 1967 dollars per. Ford can and has won anything it wanted to. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 635 Registered: 3-2002 |
i don't own a ford and don't really have any emotions one way or the other about the company or its founder. but all of you deriding the company and their products, as not being worthy of putting out a supercar, must just be completely ignorant of automotive history. the similarities between ford and ferrari are greater than their differences, and there is probably no other american car manufacturer more suited to putting out a supercar. so much so that if/when ferrari does get chopped off to the highest bidder i hope (but fear impossible), that it will go to ford and not gm; and so should all of you. | ||
| Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Member Username: Corsa Post Number: 309 Registered: 4-2001 |
Or the race that counts... Q: Which race? 1947 1. C.Biondetti/Romano Alfa Romeo 110.43kph/68.63mph 2. T.Nuvolari/Carena Cisitalia 3. I.Bernabei/Pacini Cisitalia 1948 1. C.Biondetti/Navone Ferrari 120.93kph/75.16mph 2. Compirato/Dumas Fiat 3. Apruzzi/Apruzzi Fiat 1949 1. C.Biondetti/Salani Ferrari 131.18kph/81.53mph 2. F.Bonetto/Carpani Ferrari 3. F.Rol/Richiero Alfa Romeo 1950 1. G.Marzotto/Crosara Ferrari 123.56kph/76.79mph 2. D.Serafini/Salani Ferrari 3. JM Fangio/Zanardi Alfa Romeo 1951 1. L.Villoresi/Cassani Ferrari 121.51kph/75.52mph 2. G.Bracco/U.Maglioli Lancia 3. P.Scotti/Ruspaggiari Ferrari 1952 1. G.Bracco/Rolfo Ferrari 128.56kph/79.90mph 2. K.Kling/Klenk Mercedes-Benz 3. L.Fagioli/Borghi Lancia 1953 1. G.Marzotto/Crosara Ferrari 142.32kph/88.45mph 2. JM Fangio/Sala Alfa Romeo 3. F.Bonetto/Peruzzi Lancia 1954 1. A.Ascari Lancia 139.61kph/86.77mph 2. V.Marzotto Ferrari 3. L.Musso/Zocca Maserati 1955 1. S.Moss/D.Jenkinson Mercedes Benz 157.62kph/97.96mph 2. JM Fangio Mercedes Benz 3. U.Maglioli Ferrari 1956 1. E.Castellotti Ferrari 137.41kph/85.40mph 2. P.Collins/L.Klementaski Ferrari 3. L.Musso Ferrari 1957 1. P.Taruffi Ferrari 152.60kph/94.84mph 2. W.von Trips Ferrari 3. O.Gendebien/Wascher Ferrari | ||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
New member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 39 Registered: 12-2002 |
SRT for sticker? My SRT is up for grabs at MSRP. Red. No build date yet, but should be soon. | ||
| martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
Member Username: Mw360 Post Number: 762 Registered: 5-2001 |
Bret, Try and get a '03 viper for msrp without waiting 1-2 yrs.All of the '03's are sold out and as they start being delivered I'll bet we see much flipping. | ||
| Brett Summerer (2tall)
New member Username: 2tall Post Number: 21 Registered: 7-2002 |
$80,000 OVER msrp? What the hell are they smoking. The only other out there that sells that much over sticker are 360 Spiders. The Dodge Viper is a fairly comparable car in terms of power, handling, exclusivity and brand and it sells for at or under MSRP. Do they seriously think they will have people willing to pay almost the same amount for it that a brand new, faster, better handling, more exotic, more rare car called a Lamborghini Murcielago costs? Ridiculous. Wanting to "buy American" isn't worth $80K, sorry. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 413 Registered: 10-2002 |
Arthur Peter Lavonos paid $8.5 Million for Ford GT 1075 which is now owned by Rob Walton. hehe... | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 412 Registered: 10-2002 |
Arlie There was no penality. Even though the cars crossed the finish line at about the same time the officials ruled that the one that had started futhur back (see photo of my car in the pits, they lined up at the start in a similar line based on qualifing times) had traveled a greater distance over the 24 hours and thus was the winner. Best Jim | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 893 Registered: 6-2001 |
250k for a Ford? HeHeHeHeHe.....!+ | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 700 Registered: 5-2002 |
James, I must be confused then. I swear that I read somewhere that the lead GT40 was "disqualified" in the sense that the lead car was NOT given the victory. He was officially given second place (or third) and the second GT40 to cross the line was given the victory. The lead car was penalized because LeMans is a "race" and "slowing down" for the purposes of a publicity photo lengthened his overall time and that was not allowed. In other words, it's a race and you were supposed to RACE, not slow down without justification. Can you clarify? | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 411 Registered: 10-2002 |
Arlie Ford finished 1,2,3 that year. The lead car was not disqualified. Ferrari did the same thing at Daytona the next year. The picture of the three P4's crossing the finish line in formation was hanging on Enzo's office on the day he died. It still is. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 699 Registered: 5-2002 |
"Ford positively crushed Ferrari at Le Mans in the Sixties" But let's not forget the time that Ford put Marketing ahead of Victory. It was the year that Ford had 3 GT40s running at Lemans. The lead GT40 slowed down before he crossed the finish line so that the other 2 GT40s could cross the line with him. It was so the photographers could get a nice publicity photo of all 3 GT40s crossing the finish line together. I believe the lead car was disqualified for not "racing" to the finish. I'll bet Ford was not pleased. Kinda proves that marketing was their main priority, not racing. | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 323 Registered: 4-2002 |
Of the various turn-key GT-40 replicas: I like the ERA best; However, you can still call up Holman and Moody and order an original GT40 complete with a side oiler engine. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1151 Registered: 2-2001 |
But Ferrari has won LeMans many more times than Ford... although Porsche is still king of LeMans... Ernesto | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 640 Registered: 2-2002 |
jr vee: I'm not sure what you mean by this statement: "they ran away as fast as they could and quit while ahead, knowing Ferrari would dominate LeMans again" Ferrari hasn't had an overall victory at Le Mans since 1965 when Jochen Rindt and Masten Gregory won in a 275 LM. Ford then won in 1966, 1967, 1968 and 1969 before they "quit while ahead." Since 1969 Ferrari has had the following overall results: 1970--4th 1971--3rd 1973--2nd 1974--5th 1980--10th 1981--5th 1982--6th 1997--6th 1998--8th (I was lucky enough to be there for that one) 1999-41st So, when did this domination take place? The record book sure doesn't show it. There is no question that most manufacturers get in and out of motor racing on a whim. Ferrari is to be congratulated for sticking it out for over 50 years, at least in F-1. There is no doubt that Ferrari's provenance is unmatched because of their dedication to the sport. Ford did not run and hide from Ferrari. They whipped them and then moved on to other things. Then Porsche whipped Ferrari again and Ferrari was the one who quit sportscar racing. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 409 Registered: 10-2002 |
Jr. Since 1967 Ford won LeMans two more times. Ferrari hasn't won LeMans since 1965. | ||
| Jason Wesoky (Wesokyjb)
New member Username: Wesokyjb Post Number: 2 Registered: 1-2003 |
Speaking of GT40s, I was wondering what you guys thought about the various turn-key GT40s out there. There's a few companies that make GT40 replicas (CAV is the first that comes to mind) with the exact dimensions of the original (MK I, I think) and you can drop up to a 418 hp engine in it that'll get you 0-60 in 4.4 or so. Not bad. The price: around $60k for the chasis or a total of about $80k with enigine, tranny, a/c. Would you buy one or wait for the production car, which, as mentioned before, differs in its dimensions and (prabably) performance. | ||
| jr vee (Jrv_)
New member Username: Jrv_ Post Number: 15 Registered: 12-2002 |
Gt40s are a great car but Ford was smart after beating Ferrari they ran away as fast as they could and quit while ahead, knowing Ferrari would dominate LeMans again | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 408 Registered: 10-2002 |
Jamie If you study a little more I think you'll find it didn't quite happen that way...   | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 639 Registered: 2-2002 |
Chevarri: Your facts are all wrong. It was the other way around. Ford didn't have a World Manufacturers Cup effort prior to the Cobras. Enzo Ferrari had the Monza race cancelled so that the Cobras couldn't amass enough points to beat him for the Championship. They did it the next year anyway... | ||
| Jaime Torres (Chevarri)
New member Username: Chevarri Post Number: 10 Registered: 1-2003 |
I would pay 160k for a Ferrari, but I wouldnt pay 160k for a F**D. Dont get me wrong I love the curvy lines of the GT/40 granted it has astonishing capabilites it is one of the few F**D products that I actually like. But, in the end its still a F**D. Although I am glad that F**D actually has a true sports car/world performer, instead of always trying to take on the Vette with the Mustang. At the end of the day what would rather be driving, any Ferrari of your dreams,F40,F50,Enzo,Daytona, 275,Dino etc or the F**D? On another note yes the GT40 obilterated the Ferraris and all other cars that they ran against. But, that was their intention in the first place, to manhandle the Ferraris and win at LeMans. From what I understand F**d and Ferrari had a huge battle back in the 60's that the Fcars would always win. Mr.Shelby(of the Shelby Cobras), was scared of the Fcars cause he knew he was going to loose, so he had them banned in many races. In fact I think that F**D was going to buy off Ferrari in the 60's so they could finally win @ LeMans. They were geting beat so much so they threw out all the stops got rid of the Cobra and made the GT40. They finally had acheived thier goal to win LeMans and to beat the Ferraris. Why do you think they are no longer as extremely serious in the LeMans series. Granted their is the occasional Mustang in the AMLS, but I have never seen those finish or win in the GT class. I dont even think those Mustangs are even factory backed either. | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 305 Registered: 2-2001 |
Not to discount Coletti's involvement on SVT stuff, but Neil Hannemann is the Chief Program Engineer on the GT project. Would suspect they'll manage to get the car to turn okay. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 634 Registered: 3-2002 |
well regardless of how they are marketing it, i am trying to get on the list through a contact at a dealer. hope it works. i think the looks are great and the car will be great, and ford has a tremendous racing heritage, just in a different way from ferrari. must say though that to tout it as the 'anti snob supercar' is just stupid. anybody with that kind of lolly doesn't need to be lured by anti snob talk. and anyway, they already build an anti snob supercar in the form of the mustang gt/cobra etc. | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 636 Registered: 2-2002 |
I've read about that process. There is a picture of a similar map in Ludvigsen's book. Not the same as having the original, though. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 405 Registered: 10-2002 |
Bill I have the original Dyno map of LeMans that Ford used in 67. They broke the entire track down to defined intervals and used an IBM mainframe to calculate the exact RPM, gearing, and speeds they would need to win. They ran the engines on a dyno on this program that matched every shift for 24 hours several times before the race. As Mark put it: " When Ford came to LeMans in 67 the French had not seen anything like it since General Patton rolled through." When all was said and done the nearest Ferrari was 135 miles behind. | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 634 Registered: 2-2002 |
Thanks, Nebula Class, BTW what does that name mean? It isn't all about handling alone. These things have a way of working themselves out over time. I remain optimistic, but skeptical. | ||
| Nebula Class (Nebulaclass)
Junior Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 182 Registered: 11-2002 |
Hey Bill, Don't worry about John Colletti. Have you driven a 2000 Cobra, Cobra R, or Lightning? Those things handle incredibly well, considering the Cobras are built on a chassis designed in 1976, and the Lightning is a truck. Colletti cares about handling, else he would not has pettitioned to get IRS in the 99 Cobra. | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 633 Registered: 2-2002 |
Very cool, Jim. I'm not entirely happy that they are producing the new Ford GT, but since the decision has been made I want it to be successful. Without betraying confidences all I can say is that there is grave concern that some of the car's systems are not capable of dealing with a 500 hp supercharged v-8 that must produce 600 hp overall because it takes 100 hp just to run the blower. There is also concern that John Colletti, who is a drag racer at heart, does not understand nor care about the original Ford GT's heritage and place in history. He is apparently focusing on 0-60 times and ignoring what it takes to create a well-balanced, satisfying supercar. When his own engineers and suppliers are worried perhaps we should be also. I'd much rather see the normally aspirated v-10 from the Ford 427 showcar in this vehicle. As for the Ford GT not having the soul of Ferrari that's total crap. Ford positively crushed Ferrari at Le Mans in the Sixties, and they don't have to apologize to anyone for their lack of provenance. The Ford racing effort changed the face of racing forever. Previously very little r&d or testing went on. You brought your car to the track, fiddled with springs and tire pressures, and ran it despite any handling deficiencies that remained. Ford changed all that. They spent lots of time in the wind tunnel, tested heavily and pointed the way for future composite chassis design with the bonded honeycomb frame on the J-Car that developed into the Mark IV that Jim Glickenhaus owns. Many credit Mark Donohue and Roger Penske for bringing testing and development to racing, but where was Donohue first exposed to this idea? On the Ford team where he drove before ever hooking up with Penske. This is why Jim's Mark IV is such an important vehicle. Many cars have won Le Mans, but few have had the effect on racing that the Ford racing effort, which culminated in the Mark IV, had. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 403 Registered: 10-2002 |
IMHO to get more interior room they streatched the nose a little too much. When you see the car you notice this more than in the photos. The interior is a little "Tecno" for me. I find it like their new Thunderbird, and Mustang; I'm happy with my original. I believe they're going to make as many as they can sell so anyone who pays over list is going to have the same $ experience as Viper buyers. Speaking of originals Bill France Jr. has invited Lee Holman and I to run our cars with the Pace car at the start of this years NASCAR's Firecracker 400 at Daytona this July 4. Pending working out details, I'll be there! | ||
| Rikky Alessi (Ralessi)
New member Username: Ralessi Post Number: 48 Registered: 5-2002 |
I wonder what Jim's stance is on this reproduction? What do you think of it, considering you have an original? Also, nick, I'm sure they are just saying that it might not have the "soul" that a car like a Ferrari has, because of the fact that its a ford, and tauruses and explorers are going to be rolling off the line beside this new supercar. | ||
| joe saldana (Ironjoe)
Junior Member Username: Ironjoe Post Number: 146 Registered: 12-2001 |
Guys,If you look real hard at this car,they did their homework,many,many, track goodies on this ride.....nice framework,cool motor,good braking.....interior is sweet,got to spend a little time really,really close,Id pay a hundred.. P.S. the guys at SVT SVO down the road a piece,What a job,they have this 850 HP Mustang...They throw a manufacturer plate on it and RIPPPP to lunch..... | ||
| nick l (Nsxnick)
Junior Member Username: Nsxnick Post Number: 61 Registered: 7-2001 |
how ashamed Henry Ford must be. they should've stuck with the Festiva... Henry's true vision... give me a break... this is the best thing to happen for Ford's image since... well.. since the GT40 and for those of you who are saying "[it is still just a ford]", i think the anti-snob campaign is targeted against you | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 476 Registered: 3-2002 |
I like it... but I donno... it's still an expensive... Ford... | ||
| Ron Dallas (328infoseeker)
Junior Member Username: 328infoseeker Post Number: 136 Registered: 12-2000 |
I see it marketed as the Rich Americans Muscle car gone exotic. Reggie Jackson will buy a couple. Cross between a Corvett & Jag. | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 632 Registered: 2-2002 |
Horsefly: Now you're starting to sound like Frank Parker and his "Enzo never intended it to be this way" rant. Just in case you didn't notice Henry is dead. He'd probably disapprove of Aston Martin, Volvo, Jaguar, cruise control, leather interiors and retractable running boards, but who cares? | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 698 Registered: 5-2002 |
No better way to keep in touch with tough economic times than designing and selling a $240,000 car for the masses. No,...wait a minute,...a $240,000 car has absolutely nothing in common with the average guy. Wouldn't Henry Ford be proud of his company and the new Ford GT? I'll bet there will be plenty of grass roots Ford factory workers with new Ford GTs parked in their driveway just like Henry would have wanted. NOT!!!!!! | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 631 Registered: 2-2002 |
I sincerely hope you're right. | ||
| Nebula Class (Nebulaclass)
Junior Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 178 Registered: 11-2002 |
SVT put out an AMAZING car with the 2000 Cobra R. 385 REAR WHEEL hp and 385 REAR WHEEL torque, 1.2g's on the skidpad, lightweight, turn-key race-car that can go 100k without a tune up for 50k. I can only guess what they will do for 160k. Ford used the GT40 to kill Ferrari in the 60's. Perhaps we'll see the same effort put forth. 500hp in a tiny two seater....not bad. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Junior Member Username: Psk Post Number: 90 Registered: 11-2002 |
Yes Ford (even in Australia) seemed to have forgotten how to add value to a product via selling techniques. This is one car where they should be talking it up, not saying stupid things like the anit-snob comment. They have fantasic history to build on and they say something like that ... no wonder Ford is struggling. Personally, they should just make it, leave the advertising to a few selective magazine articles, by drivers of the calibre of Steve Millen ... and that is it. Stick a huge price tag on it and watch the fight to buy one begin. Exclusivity and heritage does sell. Anti-snob ... ha, they should sack the marketing idiots! Actually still do not understand why they built it ... should have made a new design, ie. gone to Le Mans again ... Pete | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 629 Registered: 2-2002 |
Rumors around town don't sound good, but then they are just rumors and we won't really know if the Ford GT is any good until they release the final version. An article in the Detroit News said they are going to market it as the "Anti-snob supercar". Give me a break. I fear that the marketing guys at Ford and the hot rodders that run SVO don't have a clue what the Ford GT is about and will screw it up royally and ruin a great car's reputation. But, as I said, we won't know the truth for a while. MSRP is said to be targetted at $135k. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 1375 Registered: 1-2001 |
How does it compare to Ferrari? -- I'd say very well. Would I pay $1/4 M? -- not so sure... | ||
| Barney Guzzo (Trinacria)
Junior Member Username: Trinacria Post Number: 92 Registered: 8-2002 |
I read about it in Car & Driver a few months ago. I will see if I still have the mag. I may have given it to a relative. The car looked really nice but it is still a Ford. | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 463 Registered: 8-2001 |
Got this email, I am sure other list members have also. I am not interested, but curious. What is this? Does this make any sense? How does it compare to Ferrari? DENNIG CARS WORLDWIDE are proud to announce that we are now able to assist any clients who wish to place an order for the long awaited Ford GT. With looks to rival any top exotic and performance that demands respect from all other marques, the Ford GT will likely become the definitive turn of the century car. It's history rich with victories, accomplishment, and prestige, the Ford GT is without question, a supercar for our time. It offers the best of all worlds. The Ford GT reflects its heritage with honour but with a flavour that affords all the benefits of today�s advanced technologies. It is a statement of nostalgia and an opportunity to thrill. Few cars have had the distinct capability to inspire without ever moving, and so, the Ford GT enters the likes of such influential cars as the Lamborghini Countach, the Ferrari Daytona, the Chevrolet Corvette and many others as being an instant legend, a landmark that will be used to measure the success of all others. Production numbers have already been announced as limited...very limited. Deliveries will be as early as Winter 2003 for the 2004 production run. The value of this car may surpass all predictions as buyers clamour to secure their positions. This exclusive opportunity will allow you to be among the select few to own one of the very first Ford GTs out of the factory. The next chance to buy one of these cars may be literally years after they are launched. Waiting lists at authorized dealers are already up to 2-3 years long. There are available a total of 8 out of the first 20 vehicles scheduled to be in the US from the end of 2003, beginning of 2004. MSRP on the car is anticipated to be around US$160'000.00 and you can be the first to take delivery of this ultra rare AMERICAN supercar for US$80'000.00 over MSRP. Dave | ||
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