| Author | Message | ||
| "The Dave" (Sparetireless)
Junior Member Username: Sparetireless Post Number: 62 Registered: 1-2003 |
For a 360 spider, the cost to drive it in terms of depreciation is about $35 per mile for the first 500 miles, then it falls to about $20 per mile then on in. | ||
| Ken Ghiringhelli (Kenny94945)
New member Username: Kenny94945 Post Number: 47 Registered: 12-2002 |
I think there is some rhyme and reason to the $1.00 per mile theory. As an opening consider these scenarios: 1 - a $100K 355 with thirty thousand miles will need a through service and quite possible the pulling of the cylinder heads for new valves. Sales Price $70,000 Repairs, clutch, service $30,000. 2 - a $100K 512TR with sixty thousand miles. miles. Sales Price $40,000 Repairs complete top end rebuild and minor bottom end w/ service. $60,000. If the 512 has 45,000 miles the sales price would be around $85K. 512 with 10,000 miles $110,000. 3 - $13K services for 10,000 mile cars I have read about on this very forum, and seem to common. I have yet to see a good answer on this, but from what I am gathering a Ferrari engine will go to 60K mileage at which time valves and rings are required to be maintained/ changed. All debatable and not my best presentation, flame suit ready, just food for thought on this $1 per mile...at least with models 1990 and forward. | ||
| Peter Sedlak (Peters)
Junior Member Username: Peters Post Number: 201 Registered: 1-2003 |
Higher mileage is a tool to beat up the sales person, hell, they do it to prospective buyers on low mileage cars! Since there are many FCars with less than 10K miles and 8-10+ years old, this is 'competition' to a sales floor. If used wisely, a buyer can have the best of cost-to-value on their purchase. When I found my '77 Euro 308, the price was $23K with 60K miles on it. I bought it for $15.5K. | ||
| Vincent (Vincent348)
Junior Member Username: Vincent348 Post Number: 64 Registered: 4-2003 |
Another 300 miles....priceless!  | ||
| rich (Dino2400)
Junior Member Username: Dino2400 Post Number: 171 Registered: 10-2001 |
You guys are just trying to convince dheard(Stoli) that the 41k miles he's put on his F50 render it useless now so he'll give it away, aren't you? ha! | ||
| Lou B (Toby91)
Junior Member Username: Toby91 Post Number: 146 Registered: 4-2001 |
Remember guys, you don't want to be laying on your death bed thinking you should have driven your Ferrari more because your heirs sure will! | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Intermediate Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 1137 Registered: 3-2001 |
P-Tom, I better change that to "medium" mileage. Hey, just kidding!!! | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 68 Registered: 4-2003 |
Terry, you make a good point. Does not totaly matter what shows on the clock, just what is the overall condition of car. Yeah, I guess same holds true for women. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 457 Registered: 4-2002 |
I've never understood the low mileage nonesense. Its just baloney. If your looking at a car.... any car.... do a COMPLETE inspection. Compression, leakdown, service history, visual inspection. If a car is spotless clean EVERYWHERE, has full records for meticulous maintenance, has great compression and leakdown and steers, brakes, accelerates, turns tight and precise, who CARES how many miles are on it! I would rather have a 100,000 mile car that scores a 10 on every point I just made than a driven hard and put up wet 2,000 mile garage queen. All of the above advice applies ONLY to cars. Wimmen is are whole different ball game and there is NO cure for excess mileage! | ||
| stephen r chong (Ethans_dad)
Junior Member Username: Ethans_dad Post Number: 211 Registered: 3-2002 |
Frank, LMAO! That was priceless. Enjoy the car/wife as often as possible. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2313 Registered: 2-2001 |
Ive got 41k miles or so on my 512TR, yes i have destroyed 1 transmission & 2 main shafts with some serious track driving. Now how much would you pay to really flog the H out of a gorgeous Ferrari around a race track at red line most of the way ? So I really dont care how much its depreciated cus i'm seriously enjoying my car | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 66 Registered: 4-2003 |
Bob, original mileage put on by you , or preiously owned? Sorry, had to get that one in. Have a good easter. | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Intermediate Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 1136 Registered: 3-2001 |
Frank, my beautiful wife has low mileage. | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 64 Registered: 4-2003 |
Rock Star, good point. Why would anyone not drive their car to save 5-10K on the resale? I think factors such as the economy, world conflicts, etc, would have the same or greater impact on depreciation. | ||
| RockStar (Remix)
New member Username: Remix Post Number: 14 Registered: 3-2003 |
All I'm saying is if you can afford a $100,000-$200,000 car, who the hell cares about the depreciation due to mileage. Most garden variety Ferraris are anything but sound investments anyway. I know guys who will go to Vegas and think nothing of losing $30,000 at the blackjack table but are totally anal about losing $20,000 on the value of their car because it was "driven too much". Screwy. REMIX | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2305 Registered: 2-2001 |
extreme low mile cars have problems of their own. For instance an F40 with under 1,000 miles will require an engine rebuild to redo all the dried out seals from lack of use. You would also have to replace flat tires and other problems + of course if you drive it you "reduce" the cars value. I would prefer an F40 with 20,000 miles any day over a garage queen | ||
| David Stoeppelwerth (Racerdj)
Junior Member Username: Racerdj Post Number: 94 Registered: 1-2003 |
If you view mileage as a rolling average then is stands to reason if you drive your car fewer miles than the average you will probably get some premiun. When you are selling your car it is compared with other ones with options and mileage being considered. When my choice was narrowed down to two cars I analized it this way: 99 360 with 5500 miles/2 months warranty left and 01 360 300 miles/34 months warranty. The price difference was $147k vs $170k. At that point the newer car with the greater warranty was worth it to me since Chicago is the nearest dealer from Indy. Also since I put 2500-3000 miles/year it would take 18-24 months to get to the 5500 mile car. Service records are important and what kind of miles were put on it. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2137 Registered: 9-2001 |
Owning a Ferrari without driving it often is like having a beautiful wife and not....... her often. WHY would you do that ? The mileage makes her better ! And, even though you will lose some resale value due to extra mileage, you get the benefit, i.e. FUN out of driving those miles. | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 56 Registered: 4-2003 |
If you are worried about taking a bath on resale, just make sure you get a complete PPI. If the nest buyer finds something majaor, or nmumerous smaller problems, you may have a more difficult time selling it. Take your time and if something doesn't seem right, there is probably something up. Just be careful when evaluating the car. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 1671 Registered: 1-2001 |
Remix -- You just summarized while us F daily-drivers think the rest of you are crazy  | ||
| RockStar (Remix)
New member Username: Remix Post Number: 13 Registered: 3-2003 |
When I was 23 I bought a brand new NSX and kept it for about 5 years. I drove the car maybe 2500 miles the whole time. Never saw any rain and I was fanatical about the mileage and the condition of the car until I sold it. Looking back, I really wish I had DRIVEN it a little more and tried to enjoy myself instead of being such a nerd about its use. It's good to see Ferrari guys who aren't afraid to drive their cars. I say to hell with the mileage - you're awfully fortunate to have such nice toys - use them! Personally I'd rather have a regularly excercised car than one that just sat around. A 15k Modena would certainly take the edge off and I think I would drive it every chance I got. As I get older I guess I just care a lot less about things like mileage. You only live once. REMIX | ||
| Nika (Racernika)
Member Username: Racernika Post Number: 879 Registered: 12-2001 |
I would always look at service records before mileage. I mean, who wants a car that although low miles has had the crap driven out of it? A car that sits is worse off then one that is driven regularly. Service records show any reoccuring problems..... and how well the previous owner cared for the car | ||
| Scott DeGhetto (Scott63)
New member Username: Scott63 Post Number: 10 Registered: 4-2003 |
I am going to try and strike a deal on the 95 355 Berlinetta I have mentioned in previous posts. It has 15K miles and has just had a 30K service done and had a Tubi exhaust installed. I just hope I won't get killed on resale since (I tend to hold cars only for a year or two) because its a hardtop! | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 767 Registered: 2-2002 |
800 miles/year sounds low to me too. I would think that 2,000 miles/year makes more sense. The whole discussion on a mileage deduction falls flat when no one knows what the average miles/year should be. And how do they make these decisions? As the cars get more reliable their mileage/year should increase. In the end you just have to use the car and forget it. Driving a Ferrari is much more fun than looking at one. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2134 Registered: 9-2001 |
When I was looking for my Boxer I was told that acceptable miles for a used Ferrari was 800 miles a year. I don't agree, but that was the claim. | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 766 Registered: 2-2002 |
I agree with William that the mileage issue is more psychological than real. Recently a normally astute car guy told me that he had heard from a "Ferrari expert" that Ferrari values go down by $1,000 per mile driven! Under that scenario the SELLER of a $200,000 list price 360 Spyder with 2,000 miles on the odometer would have to pay the BUYER $1,800,000 to take the car off his hands! Once he realized the silliness of his remark he was quite embarassed. My point is that normally intelligent buyers often have clouded judgement when it comes to a low mileage Ferrari and sellers take advantage of that fact. Rehan's $1/mile makes much more sense. The problem with the Ferrari market is that no one really knows what the value basis is. We all see exhorbitant asking prices, and then we hear of deals consummated at tens of thousands of dollars less than advertised. Your safest bet is to work with a knowledgeable expert like Howie or Martin who deals with the fact and fiction of pricing every day. It would be really nice if we could accumulate a database of actual selling prices by model/mileage/condition based on the experience of F-Chat members. The problem with the pricing guides in Cavallino and Forza is that they are compiled based on input from DEALERS who have a vested interest in keeping prices high. I would prefer to see a guide that is compiled based on sellers true experiences, although I doubt that it will ever happen. | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
New member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 50 Registered: 4-2003 |
Scott, hate to be redundant but just picked up a 1998 355 Spider, red/tan, new tires, 30K and Tubi exhaust for 110K. Has 12K miles on it. In regards to the mileage, it is whatever the market bears. I think you can see be the other posts, an Appx 15-20K premium for "low mileage" is out of line. The next issue, if you even bought in to the pricing premium, is if you decide to pay that low mileage premium, what is the gaurntee that the mileage shown on the odo are true?? Given the 1995 soft valve issue (that may or may not affect this car), low miles does not mitigate the high price and 1995 model. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3319 Registered: 9-2001 |
BTW, FOD has a 98 spider with 3k miles that happens to still be on the east coast that they will sell for 109. Its blue. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3318 Registered: 9-2001 |
I would point out that that others have gotten 97 and 98 spyders with low miles from dealers with 30ks, warranty and other extras for the same price. I think you can do better - him pointing to the milage issue is him just trying to justify his higher price. Find a car in his showroom with 12k miles and ask him for the 15 to 20k discount LOL | ||
| Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
Junior Member Username: Kaz Post Number: 206 Registered: 11-2002 |
Excellent point Tom - 95 had valve guide issues. Scott - When I was looking for my car Shelton had a 95 spider that asking was $112K...it also only had 8K miles on it. When I told the salesman I saw 97's going for the same price or less, he walked away from me... This sales guy was a jerk. I love Shelton's service dept..good work and good people but the salesman was a looser. Keep looking it your in the market for a 355. Martin has a 98 Euro for less than that 95. | ||
| Scott DeGhetto (Scott63)
New member Username: Scott63 Post Number: 9 Registered: 4-2003 |
I still don't have an answer on the valves yet. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3317 Registered: 9-2001 |
did they address the valve guide issue on that 95? | ||
| Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
Junior Member Username: Kaz Post Number: 205 Registered: 11-2002 |
I am of the opinion (at least with 355) a driven car is better for a number of reasons. There is much testimonial here to substantiate that driven cars seem to have less problems. Perhaps atrophy�seals dry, springs harden, etc etc. I�m not a mechanic (just look at some of my tech posts) � But, I am a long term gearhead who has an excellent feel for my car and I drive her daily�in doing so, she runs like a Timex�..ah urrr�.make that a Rolex | ||
| Greg Owens (Owens84qv)
Member Username: Owens84qv Post Number: 750 Registered: 10-2001 |
Scott, the question I was pondering last evening as I was cruising through the Autoweek mag and other classifieds is "take a 1998 355 GTB for example, what would be the AVERAGE mileage for a AVERAGE price?" Where is the middle of the road price and what would be an associated mileage? Is there a yardstick that says 2K miles per year? | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 929 Registered: 12-2001 |
There is a huge psychological premium given to low mileage (modern) ferraris. Whether that translates into more dollars is a question of degree, depending on what else is available, at what price, and how desirable the car is. There have already been discussions in other threads about the drawbacks of a stale, stiff, garage queen that has not been properly excercised. On the older cars (pre-73, just to pick a date) it really should make no difference, since even if the car were driven a few thousand miles a year, it would obviously add up. There will be a premium for superlowmileage cars, to the extent somebody just has to have a perfect specimen of its type. And, let's say you buy a low mileage 355 tomorrow, drive it 3-4k miles a year for two years and then unload it. Even if the market for the car remained the same, you would take a hit for the mileage. Given the fact that the value of this car will go down anyway, not driving it is sort of pointless. So, unless you have to have the lowest mileage f-40 on the planet, buy it to drive it and it will probably treat you better, in performance and enjoyment, than if you calculate your losses by not using it for its intended purpose. As somebody else said (a million times) these aren't investments; if you can afford the ones that truly are investments, you probably wouldn't have to worry about whether it is.(The short answer to your question about 355 spyder pricing is that the price differential you are quoting just isn't there, unless, maybe, the car was a delivery miles car, and even then, in this market, 355's are generally not being bought for that purpose).If you want to validate pricing, get a subscription to FML, use a couple of the internet resources that show price, including dealer webpages, read the NY Times classifieds, etc. for a few months. While none of these prices will be exact, or right or even real, it gives you a sample from which, over time, you get a sense of asking prices. In this economy, discount it even more. | ||
| Rehan (F3606m)
Junior Member Username: F3606m Post Number: 95 Registered: 4-2002 |
I have heard before that for every mile subtract a dollar from value of car. So if one car has 10K miles and another 20K and they are the same year the high mileage car should be 10K cheaper. | ||
| Scott DeGhetto (Scott63)
New member Username: Scott63 Post Number: 8 Registered: 4-2003 |
I have no interest in buying their cars (especially at those prices). I really want to know how the cars miles impact pricing. | ||
| noel smith (Noel)
Junior Member Username: Noel Post Number: 205 Registered: 2-2003 |
they are crazy, you can do way better. | ||
| Scott DeGhetto (Scott63)
New member Username: Scott63 Post Number: 7 Registered: 4-2003 |
I was told by a salesman at Ferrari of Long Island today to avoid all cars above 10,000 miles as they will be very hard to resell. This seems odd to me because most Ferrari's I have seen have about 15k to 25k miles on them. The salesman also said that a 355 with 5k to 10k miles will sell for 15k to 20k more (i don't believe it..) They are trying to sell a 95 355 Spyder for $108K. I told them they were nuts. The car has 8K miles and just had a major belt service done. Any opinions?? Scott |