| Author | Message | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1569 Registered: 10-2002 |
William Wait till you try a set of them. I drove a GT2 and the brakes are amazing only prob was they painted the calipers yellow. (Ugg) | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2609 Registered: 2-2001 |
I like the Saleen bset of the 3, waiting for the Porsche Carrera to come out. The Enzo is cool but the F40 is cooler, wouldnt mind those ceramic brakes though  | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1566 Registered: 10-2002 |
Taek Kenneth is my friend from HK and you are my friend from SF. I'm glad you talked to Bob. Tim I'm not so sure of VW winning in F1. There are many very well funded and compotent people trying to win there already and so far Ferrari is doing fairly well. Remember that for the moment VW has no real competion in sportscar racing today. IMHO the merci and the 575 are totally different. One is a high speed GT car. One is a cutting edge supercar. The 575 is similar to the 350 Lambo (in purpose) and the Merci is VW's mid priced supercar. (On a thrill per $ basis a better value than the Enzo but on an absolute level less of a rocket) The VW/Bugatti is the one that will more fairly be judged against the Enzo although at $400,000 less than the new Bugatti the Enzo may become the high priced supercar bargin. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 909 Registered: 11-2002 |
Kenneth, I understand your frustrations. But you can take some good out of this, believe it or not. Underlying all the crap, there are some interesting points of discussion. I started a different thread on one (Daytona v Miura). What is a fair comparison? What levels of the buying public do the cars rope in? etc. Just sift through all the BS and get to the good stuff. Replying to it just makes it worst. These are the very few instances where hijacking a thread is OK, in my opinion of course, then start up a different thread on stuff you'd like to discuss with the rest. There's an awful lot of knowledge in this forum. Gain from it, I know I have. James, if by friend from HK you mean me. I'm very flattered you consider me a friend buy I live in the SF Bay Area in California, and am Korean by birth. I do have a lot of friends in the "yellow shores" and do refer to them often, don't let me fool you. Thanks for the contact info too. I had a very insightful conversation with Mr. Wallace. Cheers | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Advanced Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 3154 Registered: 6-2001 |
I think the 575 and Murci are direct competitors. Maybe the lambo is more of a sportscar, but to say they are "at opposite ends of the sportscar spectrum" is just foolish. The Miata and the McLaren F1 are at opposite ends of the sportscar spectrum. If Audi really wanted to get into F1 (maybe under the lambo name) i think they could beat Ferrari. Look what they did with the R8. | ||
| Johns (Modenaf1fan)
Member Username: Modenaf1fan Post Number: 285 Registered: 11-2002 |
OT: Kobe bryant had his clutch removed on his murcielago, so all he has to do is step on gas and shift gears. some sort of sensor detects heat and automatically clutches for you sounds pretty kewl and he did this cus the wife cant drive a stick | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1562 Registered: 10-2002 |
Patrick Before you put words in Mr. Ferrari's mouth why don't you study the matter a bit. I'd start with his autobiography. As my friend from HK has pointed out an informed opinion is worth more than one blurted out simply to insult someone. Mr. Ferrari cared about his street cars. I remember the tears in his eyes and his words at the unveiling of one of them. "Bella..." | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 366 Registered: 10-2002 |
No one bashes the Lambo here. For instance, Taek-Ho has, in a quite objective way, fairly outlined the difficulties faced by Lamborghini, and we quite understand that. There is no complaint there. But what is happening here as regards some other posts is exactly the other way round. Someone is making use of a certain selective features of a certain Lambos in order to put down Ferraris, all round, which is completely unnecessary, and utterly unfair. To make things worse, there are even people who might pose as a "Ferrari-supporter" or claim to own a Ferrari so as to add special weight to his otherwise bigoted "views" - the "Trojan horse" tactic. Take a look at his posts, however, and you will have no doubt on what his true colours are. We come from all kinds of different backgrounds from all over the world. Some people might have backgrounds that may stun everybody. Some perahps by reason of their bank balances, and some others by reason of their sheer achievements in life. In all likelihood, many people on this forum probably could have purchased a Murcielago as well, if they had really wanted to. But few would proceed to brag about his Murcielago here, non-stop, just in order to insult Ferrarai supporters on this site. It is of course getting a bit tiring, and I am sorry to see this happen. But the reality is reflected in the number of posts that continue to build up in threads like this. You can choose to run away from it and just ignore it, or you can elect to rise up to the challenge and stand up to defend your values. I do not tell people to join in this debate if they do not want to. I would equally appreciate it if other people do not force me to opt out. | ||
| Patrick Denonville (Arizonaguy)
Junior Member Username: Arizonaguy Post Number: 183 Registered: 4-2003 |
I don't think Enzo was very serious about his street cars...the only reason for them was to fund his race cars, so of course he doesn't care about the quality,he was just producing them for profit,and I'm sure that's what Ferrari is still doing. Enzo only liked Scuderia shields on his race cars,so I guess everyone here with shields on their cars aren't Ferrari loyalists since they don't repect Enzo's opinion. My point is everyones has their own opinions, and the right of free speach, your trying to pick apart Allan's opinions because you want to see how he will react, and he does this to see how you react. You are adults, but yet sometimes act like 7th graders.This is coming from a 14yr old...so take it into concideration. | ||
| John A. Suarez (Futureowner)
Member Username: Futureowner Post Number: 679 Registered: 3-2002 |
Allan, You have a lot of similarities to people who physically fight in the ford vs. chevy debates. Of course we prefer Ferraris. This is FERRARICHAT How about I go onto Lambochat and constantly put down lambos?? Oh wait, I would not do that because I respect lambochat for what it is and I understand the subjective nature of taste. "What matters is speed, looks, handling, and brakes..." That is what matters to YOU, not necessarily everyone else. Also, I doubt that most people who buy 575s ever even considered buying a Murci instead. Its because the cars are not in direct competition. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 901 Registered: 11-2002 |
Tony, Lamborghini tried their hand at F1 and failed, true. But they gave it only one shot. Running a Formula 1 team is an extremely expensive business venture. Do a search on the chat because some figures were quoted. We are talking billions. Lamborghini never had access to the tools that make one successful in these races. Lamborghini also chooses to stay out of F1 because of financial reasons. These businesses aren't run on pride guys. You mention Porsche not being in F1. The argument swings both ways. Ferrari withdrew racing activities from everything BUT F1. So does that mean they chickened out? No. Money grew thin and they focused on what they felt is more important. Here comes the best part. Porsche has won more races in more different kinds of races than any other automaker COMBINED. Their racing heritage is impeccable. They even win hillclimbs and rally racing. Yeah, through snow and stuff. So to scoff at them for not racing F1 is probably going to be met with any true racing fan with a laugh, no matter how hearty their loyalty for the cavallino and it's commendatore. Keep in mind that F1 is not the pinnacle of all racing to many people. Some feel its rally racing, others feel is the more real world applications type racing, others feel its endurance racing where technology AND real durability are put to the test. Look at some of the most famous cars in the world. They're not F1 cars. 250 GTOs, GT40s, Porsche 906s, 911 RSR, F40s, etc. Enjoy Ferrari for what it is. When someone appreciates another marque don't try to one up it, because chances are that if it's worth mentioning, that marque probably has a right to be proud of their achievement. If someone posts something in a really crude manner to stir things up...ignore them. Take their post, filter through the crap, look at any points (if any) that might spark good productive converstion and go from there. Lamborghini was started by an entrepreneur. The first engine design was an enlarged version of a Ferrari F1 prototype designed by Giotto Bizzarini. If you know your Ferrari history you'll know that translates to the two pinnacles of Ferrari aside from the man himself. Bizzarini designed the first Lamborghini engine hot off the heels of designing a car we all affectionately know as "The GTO", the most expensive Ferrari ever created, etc Enjoy the history of both marques instead of questioning them. You'll find Lambo's history to be very amusing and full of excellent anecdotes. Many related to Ferrari and Maserati. Not because they want to put them down, but when you have all of the founding engineers come from those two marques you can't help but have them draw up comparisons. By the way, it has been documented that Bob Wallace, when presented with the option of working for either Ferrari or Lamborghini because of his uncanny talent, he chose Lamborghini and has no regrets. I had the pleasure of talking to him thanks to Jim Glickenhaus (who made it happen). And he reaffirmed what he has also been know to say in magazines. Granted, this is with the classic cars, but Lamborghini stood head and shoulders above the rest. Even Ferrari. Stuff like that should make you want to study both marques and appreciate them. Not get you bothered inside and vent about how an Enzo is better than a Murcielago. One's named after a bull and the other is named to commemorate the Founder! Cheers | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 607 Registered: 6-2002 |
It shows me how utterly rediculous you people are when you honestly believe that comparing a limited production run, 399 unit, $700,000 race car, is fair to a 275,000 street car. I dont sit here and compare the Murcielago to the 360, they are not competitors. As the Testarossa was to the Countach, The 512 and the 550 to the Diablo, the 575 is to the Murcielago. Its great to see the Lamborghini compared to the likes of the Enzo, the Saleen, and the Pagani, all cars which are priced significantly more, usually atleast double. Its good to know that even Ferrari owners know, that unless theyre in an Enzo, they are no match for the Lamborghini. How many people on this list own an Enzo? How many a 550 or a 575? I guess i have a much better chance of running into the 550 and 575 owners. You guys constantly barade me for praising Lamborghini over Ferrari, yet its ok for you to post threads belittling the Nsx, or Porsche or Lotus. Get off the crack and wake up, we all love Ferrari, some of us more than others, but Ferrari is a Exotic car, not a Cadillac, things like comfort for cross country trips is not significant, because most of us own other cars for these purposes. What matters is speed,looks, handling, brakes, etc. Something that Ferrari lacks, in every car other than the Enzo. So now not only can you hide behind F1 winnings, but you can hide behind the Enzo, and claim it is the fastest, but it will remain a car, none of you will ever own. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 900 Registered: 11-2002 |
Kenneth, Don't bring the hp/liter argument either because if you do, Honda's got Ferrari and Lamborghini beat. I was on quite a waiting list for the Murcielago. I ended up purchasing private party to bypass the line. Diablo's were all spoken for, for quite some time. I went to college with Soharto's grandson's friend, and had the pleasure of meeting him. At the time the Indonesians owned Lamborghini. Trust me. They could not make them fast enough. They thought of expanding but it was cost prohibitive. Cheers | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 899 Registered: 11-2002 |
Kenneth. Engine design, chassis design etc are extremely expensive propositions. Ford's Mondeo (the world's car) was the topper at something over 3billion bucks. Lamborghini, does not have the financial backing to produce a car to compete with the Enzo. Now that it's owned by VW, who knows. But even with money, all the big wigs have to give the nod before something happens. I didn't say expensive materials are what differentiate it. It's the "there is virtually no budget". Lamborghini did not and does not have the luxury to design the ultimate sports car. They priced the Murcielago with Diablo pricing in mind. Must not exceed certain amounts etc. The Enzo is so far from any road going Ferrari that it is built on a separate completely hand made non conveyor belt type assembly line. Again, different from all other road going Ferraris. It is a special vehicle indeed. The Murcielago is just a range topper for the marque, soon followed by the Gallardo. Not Lamborghini's "no compromise" street missile. To compare the two is quite flatly, a little silly. Cheers | ||
| Andrew A. Illes (Andyilles)
Junior Member Username: Andyilles Post Number: 82 Registered: 10-2002 |
Allan... What people here are trying to tell you is that you are a certain bodily orfice (that would appear as yellow dots here)!!! SHHHHHH.... go away... shoo... OUT, damned spot... SCAT!!! Find a nice Lambo site to bother. | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 364 Registered: 10-2002 |
Tony, you are absolutley correct. You can put in an engine of 10,000 c.c. producing over 1,000 hp if you want, but what is the point, and where is the limit? And can you sell the car? It seems to me that it is precisely for this reason that Ferrari does not enter into this kind of incomparable "comparison" farce. Ferrari can give anybody a good race if taken to the extremes, but for a street car compromise, Ferrai respects the tastes and needs of its loyal supporters and produces the cars that they want. And if I may say so, Ferrari has achieved a most successful balance. Make no mistake, I do like Lamborghinis, but for what they are, and not for a borrowed identity established via "Ferrari-bashing". It is very bad taste to come to a Ferrarichat forum to tell the boys resident here how crappy their treasured acquisitions are, AS A WHOLE. An owner of a McClaren does not do that. An owner of an Enzo does not do that. An owner of a Pagani Zonda does not do that. | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 263 Registered: 8-2002 |
Pay your dues, the old saying, Lambo doesn't get respect because they haven't, it would be different if they did. So a Diablo or Merci can make it around the track a few times and post a good time, lets see it do it for 6 hours without blowing up. Ferrari will always be the legend and better due to Enzos dedication and hard work thru good times and tragedy, its the story of the little guy winning against big guys over and over again,the new guns raising the bar and offering more challenges. How many Ferrari drivers have died in crashes from pushing the limits of engineering or men too far? This technology and heritage is in all Ferraris, something a Lambo will never have | ||
| tony liokossis (Tonybaloney)
New member Username: Tonybaloney Post Number: 34 Registered: 9-2002 |
i think both lamborghini and ferrari, and porsche, honda, etc etc can all build a car to beat even the enzo if they really wanted to. so the argument just gets escalated until you get to Formula 1, where the limit of a companies technology is tested and the best are truly decided. how are lamborghini (or audi as it nows is) and porsche doing in F1 lately? oh yeah, they aren't. ferrari builds what it wants to build. you either like them or you like something else. fact is, they are the most remarkable combination of looks, sound, handling, performance and pedigree/engineering avalailable. | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 363 Registered: 10-2002 |
Taek-Ho, I am sorry, but I do not agree with you in so far as you are suggesting that because the Enzo is built on more expensive materials, therefore it cannot be compared with the Murcielago. The point is, some Ferrari-bashers appear to have this incessant habit of making Lambo/Ferrari comparisons DOWN the production line, and never look UPWARDS. Of course, when you half-close your eyes in this way, and then only look at the paper figures, any fool can pick out who is the theoretical winner between the various models, as far as the paper figures are concerned. If someone can have the cheek to compare a 6,193 cc Murcielago with a 3,586 cc 360 Modena, or a hardcore Lambo model with a GT 575 model (which is obviously built for a different purpose other than straight line bully-racing), then why can't I compare a Murcielago with an Enzo? Why not compare this instead - the Murcielago has a 6,193 cc engine, but produces only 580 hp. The 360 Modena has only a 3,586 cc engine, but produces 400 hp. Pound for pound, which engine is more efficient? Which model costs more, anyway? Ever since Mr. Lamborghini fell out with Mr. Ferrari, Lamborghini has orchestrated its foreever open quest to go one-up on Ferrari. So why doesn't Lamborghini come up with a true competitor to the Enzo? Who is there to stop Lamborghini from using comparable materials, or even more expensive materials, than the Enzo? In any event, isn't that what Lamborghini has always been trying to do in the past? Expensive or not, Ferrari is able to pre-sell every Enzo that it plans to build. What is Lamborghini's answer to that? | ||
| David R. (Rodsky)
Junior Member Username: Rodsky Post Number: 51 Registered: 3-2003 |
Allan, you're a complete wanker. You never add anything of value. Every thread you participate in, is the same - love Lambo's, better than Ferraris. I think we all get it. You have some money and have bought a $4M house and a few sports cars. You can drive fast but you wont race anyone if there is a corner involved. You also like annoying everyone both here an on teenage sites. We get it. However, you take up space. Perhaps, Rob can set up one thread for you where you keep reminding us of the fact that lambo's are better and do all the annoying things you do. You and your posts never change. This way you can stop taking up sapce in other threads where people are interested in intelligent conversations about cars. By the way - dont respond. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 886 Registered: 11-2002 |
Actually, Alon, you're wrong. The Murcielago's market is nowhere near. McLaren F1, Enzo, etc. It's sportscar and may even be considered a GT by some. A very good one at that. Much like Porsche's Carrera GT. Mid engine, small boot, and fast. I do question comparisons with the 575 though. I started the thread on Miuras and Daytonas. This is exactly one of the points I bring up. Shouldn't these two be rated as if in different classes? Is it possible that the Lamborghini, being so different from a lot of other sports cars, falls in it's own category. Much like the Cayenne Turbo in the SUV market. An SUV capable of dispatching extremely adequate sports cars (nobody comes even close). I'm not saying it as a matter of flattery, as in, wow Lambo is so cool they are in a class by themselves. More along the lines of competition and financial viability. Why compete with Ferrari when you can take advantage of a legendary marque and create your own niche market? Cheers | ||
| Alon Dahan (Alon)
New member Username: Alon Post Number: 14 Registered: 3-2003 |
Also, I think that lambo's atempt with the murci to combine a GT car with a supercar is a failor. As a supercar it gets beaten by the competition, both in terms of performance and in terms of on road experience. As a GT car, it can't quite match the comfort or luxsury of either the 575 or the vanquish. the murci is to much of a compromise. | ||
| Alon Dahan (Alon)
New member Username: Alon Post Number: 13 Registered: 3-2003 |
Compering the murci with the 575 is redicolous. The 575 is a GT car, as in Gran Turismo (grand touring). It's ment to be comfortable and to be useable as a daily car. That's why it's front engined. The only direct competitor to the 575 is the Aton Martin Vanquish, also a pure GT car (and also with a V12 in the front). The murci is an atempt to combine GT qualities in a supercar, but it's much more a supercar than it is a GT car. Therefore it can't really be compared with the 575. It should be compared with other supercars, such as the Pagani Zonda, saleen s7 (by the way it's probably the ugliest supercar ever), and yes, the FERRARI ENZO, as this is the only F true corrent supercar. Car magazines seem to think like I do - they compare the murci with the abouve mentioned supercars, and the 575 with the Aston. For example, in the new top gear they compared the murci with the Zonda, not the 575, and the 575 was compared with the vanquish, not the murci. By the way, the zonda was said to be better than the murci, and the 575 was picked over the Aston (by both Clarkson and Damon Hill). | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 884 Registered: 11-2002 |
Kenneth, Your Murcielago and Enzo argument is flawed. Enzos are built on a much more expensive platform. You can almost build a house with all the carbon fiber in the car. Truly astounding. Almost a "budget is no limit" car. The cars are in completely different markets. Lamborghini has the unenviable task of having one current model support the entire company. That is not financially viable. That's the reason the Gallardo is coming out and soon I would not be surprised to see different variations. Including a supercar. Cheers | ||
| David Stoeppelwerth (Racerdj)
Member Username: Racerdj Post Number: 274 Registered: 1-2003 |
"Allan", sorry | ||
| David Stoeppelwerth (Racerdj)
Member Username: Racerdj Post Number: 273 Registered: 1-2003 |
I'm curious whether any other fellow chatters besides Alan visit the Lambo site to bash their cars? | ||
| Clax (Clax)
Junior Member Username: Clax Post Number: 56 Registered: 10-2002 |
Allan: 1. Sell your 355 to someone who will appreciate it. 2. I hope that you treat your family and those around you with more respect than you deliver to those on F-Chat. | ||
| David Stoeppelwerth (Racerdj)
Member Username: Racerdj Post Number: 271 Registered: 1-2003 |
"Ferrari can ask for that kind of money for the Enzos. I am afraid that Lamborghini does not even have that kind of model, let alone the guts to ask for that kind of money." DITTO | ||
| A.Tonokaboni (Senna1994)
Junior Member Username: Senna1994 Post Number: 109 Registered: 9-2002 |
Allan, I personally like both Lambos and F-Cars. I have to say I don't think anyone expects either to run like a Japanese Car, I had an NSX and it was a much better car in terms of reliablity than my 355, but I still prefer the 355. I think the 575 and Murci are comparable as far as price, but I thik there are different buyers for the car. Now the Gallardo and 360 that is more of a comparison. Just my 2 cents. | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 362 Registered: 10-2002 |
Isn't this interesting. This so-called comparison between Ferraris and Lambos. This constant trumpeting of Lambos' superiority over Ferraris. The trick is to pick on a Ferrari of a known smaller engine, or built for a different purpose. Then proceed to make a meal of it and conclude that a Lambo must therefore "destroy" a Ferrari. The lurking question is : why doesn't the comparing Lambo pick on something of its own size? Like an Enzo. The Enzo shows that if Ferrari were really minded to build a racing production-car that could beat the Murcielagos, it could do so. The technology is there. The argument that "the Murci is cheaper than the Enzo and is therefore a superior car" is based on fallible logic. For instance, WRX and Evos are much, much cheaper cars, but they are also very fast. Consider Corvettes and Vipers, too. Does that make them superior to the Lambo? How many Murcielagos does Lamborghini plan to build and sell? Not much more than the total number of Enzos that Ferrari plans to build. But Ferrari is able to sell Enzos at a much higher price than Murcielagos. If Lamborghini were to try to sell Murcis at a price anywhere near that of the Enzos, I doubt if many people would place an order. Ferrari can ask for that kind of money for the Enzos. I am afraid that Lamborghini does not even have that kind of model, let alone the guts to ask for that kind of money. Now that is what I would call "superiority of the marque". | ||
| John A. Suarez (Futureowner)
Member Username: Futureowner Post Number: 677 Registered: 3-2002 |
Noted. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 606 Registered: 6-2002 |
John, it was stated in the article that car had no previous problems at all. | ||
| John A. Suarez (Futureowner)
Member Username: Futureowner Post Number: 674 Registered: 3-2002 |
Allan, My point was that you have no idea if the car had any previous problems. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 605 Registered: 6-2002 |
Wheres the complaining? You guys where quick to point out the Murcielagos shortcomings when the Car and Driver article appeared. I merely pointed out the rest of the story which was not mentioned. And by the way, on the post which stated that i didnt know what happened with the car for the previous 15400 miles of its life, i do know, it was subject to 35 other road tests. Please, my Uncles 360 cant even get out of the shop and he babies it, with 1300miles on it. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 604 Registered: 6-2002 |
Im not bashing his car, merely voiced my opinions of the cars we drove. Now we're really going in reverse, lets compare a Murcielago with a Modena. Dont give the Modena even more headaches than it is going to have with the Gallardo. | ||
| Patrick Denonville (Arizonaguy)
Junior Member Username: Arizonaguy Post Number: 177 Registered: 4-2003 |
Ken, hes not complaining, he is simply raising a point to be discussed,that is when everyone jumps down his throat. I'm starting to believe some people are sore loosers,even with a car they don't own. | ||
| Patrick Denonville (Arizonaguy)
Junior Member Username: Arizonaguy Post Number: 176 Registered: 4-2003 |
Stephen, keep in mind that Lamborghini is producing the Gallardo to beat the 360, on paper it is allready beaten when comparing specifications. If the 575 is not in the same class as the Murcielago how come they don't build a car that can compete with the Murcielago. I don't think Ferrari can,since the Enzo shares similar numbers with the Murcielago but costs 500K more,a car to compete with the murcielago would have to have Enzo performance and cost 500K less. I think Ferrari may be in a hole with this one. That's just my 0.2, I can not be bias because it's been ages since I have been in a Ferrari, and have never been in a Lamborghini. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 974 Registered: 10-2001 |
Allan, I wish just ONCE you would contribute something to this group besides sillyass complaining and bickering. | ||
| Pat Pasqualini (Enzo)
Member Username: Enzo Post Number: 557 Registered: 2-2002 |
Jeez Allan you really are a prick you start bashing a guy's car that isn't even brought up in the conversation. Oh by the way did you have to wait in line to get your ticket to the new fast and furious movie? | ||
| John A. Suarez (Futureowner)
Member Username: Futureowner Post Number: 673 Registered: 3-2002 |
Grow up! Yes, I have sat in a Murci before. Allan, would you go as far as to compare a 456 with the 6.0 Lambo? | ||
| stephen r chong (Ethans_dad)
Member Username: Ethans_dad Post Number: 296 Registered: 3-2002 |
Agree with John that the Murci vs 575 is not quite right. Seems to me that the Modena would be a better comparison of 2 mid engined two seat pure sports cars. The 575 is a GT. When you match up the Murci vs 360, I think the bull comes out on top : ( | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 603 Registered: 6-2002 |
I bet the two of you, have never even sat in a Murcielago, let alone driven one. The Murcielago is very comfortable and can be driven for long periods easily. Also, just think, since its so much faster, youll get there that much quicker. The Murci is just as much a touring car as the 575, both V12's, both way too heavy, similar price tags etc. As for comfort, the Mondial has to be the worst with that horrible dash layout and school bus like steering wheel. We were going to buy one for my wife, but she decided she'd rather have a Porsche at the time. I had experience with the 308 and 328 at the time, and loved both, so i thought the Mondial would be similar, boy was i wrong. Absolutely horrible. We looked at 2, one was a pristine 1988 Coupe, with 17000 miles, the other a convertible, with like 25,000 miles. Coupe drove ok, very very slow, terrible styling, convertible felt like it would fall appart any minute. | ||
| Jeffrey Wolfe (86mondial32)
New member Username: 86mondial32 Post Number: 40 Registered: 5-2003 |
John... like most Lambo owners.. they don't understand what touring is. They have never had access to a car that could do anything but seat two people and be comfortable for a very short distance. All of the cars that lambo made to attempt touring ( 60's through early 70's) were too uncomfortable to actually tour with. Not to mention not reliable enough to risk a long journey. But wait.. didn't a Daytona make a kinda long drive in a very short time across America once... hehehe. | ||
| John A. Suarez (Futureowner)
Member Username: Futureowner Post Number: 671 Registered: 3-2002 |
"Saying that a Murcielago and a 575 are not comparable is also as stupid as comparing the Enzo to the Murcielago. The 575 is direct competition to the Murci" I still dont understand how you can think that. The 575 is a touring car, the murci is not. The 575 and the Murci are at opposite ends of the sports car spectrum. End of story. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 602 Registered: 6-2002 |
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| Pat Pasqualini (Enzo)
Member Username: Enzo Post Number: 556 Registered: 2-2002 |
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| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 600 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hmmm lets see, first off, i hope most Ferrari owners are not like most of you. Ignorant to say the least. Oh yes, Lambos just go around each corner and catch fire. Funny, having owned 3 of them, knowing about 20 people with them, being on the Lamborghinilist for years, ive never heard of anyone who had this problem. Im sure some cars have caught fire, but all cars do, i have pictures of an Nsx that caught fire. Saying that a Murcielago and a 575 are not comparable is also as stupid as comparing the Enzo to the Murcielago. The 575 is direct competition to the Murci, sad you have to try and compare a limited edition F-car that costs 3 times as much to a Murci. It is actually a compliment to Lamborghini, that Ferrari needs to charge almost 700,000 for a car that can beat a Lambo. Fit and finish on both Ferraris and Lambos, is very comparable from year to year. Ferrari interiors wear like crap, and all F-cars have crap paintjobs. Hit a bump in the 355 Spider and you can hear it rattle. Please, get off the crack. Yesterday, after not driving the Diablo for about 1 month, me and my wife took it out for a spin, we both agreed, it makes the 355 seem downright boring. I love how everyone constantly brings up reliability issues with Lambos, when you have pages and pages of archives of problems with F-cars.... serious problems to boot. My uncles 360 is still in the shop, brand new 2003, almost 3 months. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Intermediate Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 1295 Registered: 8-2001 |
I like Lambos. But the posts by Allan doesn't put Lambo owners in a good light to me. I hope they're not all like that. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 867 Registered: 11-2002 |
Clax, I think you hit on something important. I think the reason a lot of this Lamborghini bashing we've seen recently is due to the wake Allan causes with his posts. Point is. Saying something >>Personally, I like Lambo's. But I have a hard time listening to Allan's constant onslaught of anti-Ferrari sentiment. That's why I made the comment about Diablo's catching fire.<< simply because of spite is misplaced and will usually just make you seem less educated about the marque than you really are. As I said before, if you got a problem with the way Allan posts his threads, take it out on him, not the cars a la Ken (Allyn). For someone who has a Gallardo on order, you really should know better. You'll just be quite the hypocrite. Cheers | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1544 Registered: 10-2002 |
Neal It's nice to see that someone finally see's what really matters. I know I'm old and stuck in the 60ies but do any of these look as fine as a P4? The S7 has more gills than a corral reef. | ||
| Clax (Clax)
Junior Member Username: Clax Post Number: 55 Registered: 10-2002 |
Personally, I like Lambo's. But I have a hard time listening to Allan's constant onslaught of anti-Ferrari sentiment. That's why I made the comment about Diablo's catching fire. I recognize that other cars may have this problem, but none as frequent as the Diablo (in my observation). I own a 360 Spider and have a Gallardo on order. I am not a brand-specific buyer, I buy the cars I like, regardless of the badge. Regarding Lambo, in my opinion, the Murci is the first car that they have produced that is a true high-quality product. I have always been disappointed with the build quality of Lambo's, until the arrival of the Murci. With the Diablo's I have seen, there have been numerous quality flaws that we readily visible (panels that don't line up properly, errant stitching in the interior, etc.). As far as this thread goes, I'm with Ken. | ||
| neal (95spiderneal)
Junior Member Username: 95spiderneal Post Number: 155 Registered: 3-2002 |
who cares about this f vs l debate? as a f fan, most important thing to me is that the saleen is now the ugliest supercar allowing the enzo to be only the best performing one. thank god! | ||
| Dave L (Davel)
Member Username: Davel Post Number: 283 Registered: 7-2001 |
Any car can and will catch fire. Some more than others but that happens. Nice article on all the cars actually. The feature that caught my eye was the owner of the Enzo being so down to earth and willing to share his car with those interested. His quote about sitting in that type of car as a child would have really been special was very cool. Stop all this ridiculous comparison and go drive your car and be nice to the folks who simply are curious about it and SHARE your good fortune when you have the time...as graciously demonstrated by the owner of the Enzo. Nice also to see his admission that the 200k to replace the engine would be out of his reach, yet he sold most of his collection to obtain that vehicle. That pretty much sums up who he is. Allan re-read the article and gather some insight to your status in life.Id say your doing well, so why the constant bickering. All of us are pretty lucky to have what we have and do what we do...cars or not | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 584 Registered: 11-2002 |
"All you guys do is talk crap about every other car here, whether or not its a Lambo, Porsche or Lotus." Don't include me in that group Alan, I just happen to like all of these cars. If I could afford it I would have one of each! | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1542 Registered: 10-2002 |
Clax My 308 caught on fire so did my P4. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2374 Registered: 9-2001 |
Clax, more than a few Ferraris have been known to caught fire too. The foglight switch in my ex-TR caught fire once. | ||
| Clax (Clax)
Junior Member Username: Clax Post Number: 54 Registered: 10-2002 |
To add to this discussion, Allan failed to mention how Diablo's have a tendency to catch on fire in the engine bay. I like that feature. That would be a cool feature if I needed to make an action video sequence. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 967 Registered: 10-2001 |
Allan, you really need to get a life. | ||
| Mark Moon (Enzomoon)
Junior Member Username: Enzomoon Post Number: 111 Registered: 4-2002 |
Go back to PsychoTherapy Allan.....the first few visits haven't helped. | ||
| Erik (Teenferrarifan)
Junior Member Username: Teenferrarifan Post Number: 159 Registered: 2-2003 |
I don't want to be part of a debate, but am I the only one who thinks the gallardo looks better then the murci? The murci's sharp looking but that gallardo look awesome. Erik | ||
| John A. Suarez (Futureowner)
Member Username: Futureowner Post Number: 669 Registered: 3-2002 |
Some of you were quick to point to this article, boasting how the shifter on the Murcielago broke twice. Well you seem to have forgotten some very important info. First off, the shifter handle did not break twice. Car and Driver broke the shifter in this test, and last summer they pulled a universal joint free in the shift linkage (which miraculously means that the Lambo�s defects have NOTHING to do with the initial build quality.) You failed to mention that this particular car, had over 15,500 purely test miles on it, with over 35 road tests. Out of those 15,500 miles, its the only times theyve had a problem with the car ( right� and you were there to attest for the previous 15,432 miles.) Then you were extremely proud to say that the Murcielago only matched the 575M 1/4 time. (And now we reach the level of the old Ford vs. Chevy debate.) In the article it clearly states that the Murci would have been much faster, but they shifted extremely slowly due to the problem they experienced. (This fact alone makes Lambos better than Ferraris. Especially when comparing two cars that serve completely different purposes.) The article makes note also that a Diablo 6.0, will handily destroy the 575M, and the Murcielago according to these tests. ( Another fact that tries to link the 550/575 as being in direct competition with the Murcielago) You also failed to mention, which i dont understand why, since Lambos can only go quickly in a straightline, and cannot stop, that the Murcielago destroyed the 575M in handling and braking. (Since you are quick to point out price differentials, maybe you should consider the price difference between these two cars.) From this test, i have gathered the following info, if you take a completely ragged out Murcielago, and baby it off the line, shift like a Grandma, you can still easily blow away a 575M. Sounds good to me. (Why does it sound good to you? Because you like to compare apples with oranges.) All you guys do is talk crap about every other car here, whether or not its a Lambo, Porsche or Lotus. (You are so poignant!!!) Always nice to wake up to this kind of discourse! | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 396 Registered: 6-2002 |
lol rob! | ||
| Fayyaz Vellani (Fvellani)
Junior Member Username: Fvellani Post Number: 71 Registered: 8-2002 |
I like the Murcielago's styling, except its butt | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 596 Registered: 6-2002 |
Lol! | ||
| rob ferretti (Robiferretti)
Member Username: Robiferretti Post Number: 251 Registered: 4-2002 |
allan always likes the internet smack talking, thats why he is obviously my biological father LOL | ||
| Robert McNair (Rrm)
Member Username: Rrm Post Number: 424 Registered: 5-2002 |
And you better NOT be kicking a 355 I don't care if you own it or not! | ||
| Robert McNair (Rrm)
Member Username: Rrm Post Number: 423 Registered: 5-2002 |
Allan, I have to admit I saw a Murcielago in person this weekend and I was quite impressed with the design. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 595 Registered: 6-2002 |
Some of you were quick to point to this article, boasting how the shifter on the Murcielago broke twice. Well you seem to have forgotten some very important info. First off, the shifter handle did not break twice. Car and Driver broke the shifter in this test, and last summer they pulled a universal joint free in the shift linkage. You failed to mention that this particular car, had over 15,500 purely test miles on it, with over 35 road tests. Out of those 15,500 miles, its the only times theyve had a problem with the car. Then you were extremely proud to say that the Murcielago only matched the 575M 1/4 time. In the article it clearly states that the Murci would have been much faster, but they shifted extremely slowly due to the problem they experienced. The article makes note also that a Diablo 6.0, will handily destroy the 575M, and the Murcielago according to these tests. You also failed to mention, which i dont understand why, since Lambos can only go quickly in a straightline, and cannot stop, that the Murcielago destroyed the 575M in handling and braking. From this test, i have gathered the following info, if you take a completely ragged out Murcielago, and baby it off the line, shift like a Grandma, you can still easily blow away a 575M. Sounds good to me. In Jrv's defense, he has provided many of you with tons of info, but now you slam him because on his own site he may have made a derogatory reference about Ferrari's? Please, he can say whatever he wants, he's entitled to his own opinions. All you guys do is talk crap about every other car here, whether or not its a Lambo, Porsche or Lotus. Now you must excuse me, im going to go kick my 355.lol |