| Author | Message | ||
| Henry D. Chin (Hanknum)
Junior Member Username: Hanknum Post Number: 172 Registered: 2-2002 |
Can't we just agree to disagree. Initially I read some of Tony's post because the titles were intriging (sp?), but after a few they were all the same. I just started to skip them. I don't agree with everything Matt has done, but that is his perogotive. I don't think anyone has the right to force anyone off the board (except of course Rob) and I don't see any reason to embarass others. I am a part of this board because of the technical content. I would like to see us get past this and just get back to business. Of course others may feel different and that is fine with me (I'll probably just ignore your post  ). Henry | ||
| Jeffrey Wolfe (86mondial32)
Junior Member Username: 86mondial32 Post Number: 104 Registered: 5-2003 |
Wm.. I agree. But I also don't think that DON or anyone other than the board Opp has the right to badger a poster. Arlie and Tony can be a handful... but thats part of the fun. If it is okay for a well liked poster here to post an "asswipe" award and get cheered then arlie and Tony have the right to say whatever they like. Just because a poster is more popular does not give them any mroe rights... WELCOME TO THE INTERNET! IF I would choose to slam Ferrari it is only the right of the Board operator to decide what goes on.. I repeat.... IF one MORON can post rude comments and "awards" to others then TONY has the right to post his ( yeppers stupid) comments. | ||
| Don Jet (Jet328gts)
New member Username: Jet328gts Post Number: 9 Registered: 5-2003 |
REDGTS2...You said it all and more!! | ||
| chris cummings (Entelechy)
Member Username: Entelechy Post Number: 304 Registered: 5-2001 |
Wm - well said! | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1283 Registered: 12-2001 |
Hey, Jeff: I think every community needs its critics, it's healthy and keeps the process honest. But, i think you sell alot of people here short: there is a huge amount of goodwill, support and genuine car interest among alot of people here. I enjoy the board, and the people i meet through it; i find most of the people here pretty positive about who they are and what they believe. I'm not supporting a gang mentality against the Tonys of this world, but, you gotta admit, the guy made some real ••••••• posts that invited the response he got.I don't care if the poster knows absolutely nothing, or is an acknowledged historian of Ferrari. The point is that the questions and answers add to the knowledge or insight, and are not merely flame provoking. If Tony lied about the cars, too, well, that's not anybody else's fault. But don't characterize this as some poor slob that got run off the board because he didn't own the right car, or voice the right views. That's not the reality of Tony's tenure here. | ||
| Jeffrey Wolfe (86mondial32)
Junior Member Username: 86mondial32 Post Number: 102 Registered: 5-2003 |
And Gerald.. I always use my real name in everything I do. | ||
| Jeffrey Wolfe (86mondial32)
Junior Member Username: 86mondial32 Post Number: 101 Registered: 5-2003 |
Don.. you asked me if it's okay to lie..? I do it on a daily basis in my work and socially as a form of being polite. What I disagree with more than some jerk lying is a bigger Jerk or Jerks that think they have the lock on whats right or acceptible. JRV, the Don and several others here often act like they have the right to admonish others. Even a fool like Tony has the right to do as he sees fit. If it bugs you then go read a book. One of the things I really love about the internet is the ablility it gives everyone to act out... ruffle a few feathers and tell the know it alls to get stuffed. Did you ever stop to think that his bad behavior was due to envy? Instead of letting him vent you took it upon yourselves to teach him a lesson. Well... who the F**k are you? IN my book no one here has done anything that special... after all.. being successful in business and buying a Ferrari takes ZERO talent. I WORKED my way up and bought my cars and spent time racing in real event... not some bogus "track day" for posers that own 355 Challenge cars. | ||
| Gerald L. Roush (Ferrmktltr)
Junior Member Username: Ferrmktltr Post Number: 139 Registered: 5-2003 |
To Bill Swayer: VERY, very well expressed. I agree with you. The only other thing I would add is that I think people on this forum should not be allowed to hide behind a cloak anonymity. Let's use real names. Gerald | ||
| michael rossi (Ziggy)
New member Username: Ziggy Post Number: 25 Registered: 6-2003 |
Don, Have a nice day! | ||
| "The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member Username: The_don Post Number: 5389 Registered: 8-2002 |
 michael rossi (Ziggy) Tony, Michael ALERT. Leave him alone he will go way. | ||
| michael rossi (Ziggy)
New member Username: Ziggy Post Number: 12 Registered: 6-2003 |
Mr.Rodsky, Do you no what the constitution is? | ||
| David R. (Rodsky)
Junior Member Username: Rodsky Post Number: 68 Registered: 3-2003 |
Well put Art and DJ - I have been on the board for several months (non-owner) and I dont believe that there is an attitude towards non-owners. I think that most people here want to help out and enjoy providing information. They assume that people are either enthusiasts or are gathering information leading up to an F-Car purchase (my case). Tony, started threads just to provoke - just like this new person today (who is probably Tony) started a thread on Jewish Ferraris. This person is not intending to help out or share information that others may enjoy - he is attempting to rabble rouse and prompt reaction. If this board tolerates that, then it will become a bit like the restaurant that I dont want to go to. The fact that the board edits out obscentities is one example of how this board is one of the best out there for info vs. a place to fight, name call and provoke. | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 862 Registered: 2-2002 |
I am no fan of Tony Roberts or people like him. I genuinely like most of the regular contributors to this board. But I was very upset by the way this situation was handled. First I should say that Tony put up a pretty strong fight, which brought on an unusually strong reaction. However, that fight degenerated into a mob scene. Normally sane people came out of the woodwork to stomp on the offender when he was down. It got so bad that the entire board was frozen. Ferrari talk was suspended temporarily while the mob pummeled the offender and everyone got their chance to kick him in the teeth for any reason they could think of, including unacceptable transgressions like poor spelling and grammar. We've had these scenes before, but I thought we learned how to deal with them. Others have been frozen out by silence as F-chatters refused to reply to their inane posts, and they eventually left. That didn't happen this time. And Rob stayed silent. It's his board and he has that right but, if this kind of behavior persists, his brand WILL suffer. F-Chat is deservedly on the cusp of greatness but, like many great brands, it too can fail to reach its potential. Many influential Ferraristi monitor this board. Others learn about it daily and stop by for a test drive. Imagine the impression incidents like this one can have on newbies. As an example, taking a cue from an off topic post, consider that you are a steak lover who decides to eat at the world's best steakhouse. You enter the restaurant to find a particularly cocky poseur bragging loudly and disrupting the ambience of the room. You decide that he needs to be dealt with, but instead of a bouncer escorting him out the patrons rise up against him. Pandemonium erupts, chairs and fists are flying and the offender is beaten senseless by the crowd. Despite the restaurant's stellar reputation you will likely run away in horror and never visit there again. Rob, you are going to have to figure out how to deal with these siutations. If you hide in the shadows and do nothing you may suffer the same fate as GM and other great brands that tried to ignore their problems. Whatever you do I'll support you. This is a great board and I enjoy every day I spend here, although some are better than others. It's over, let's learn from it and move on to more important subjects, shall we? | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3894 Registered: 9-2001 |
well said DJ | ||
| Robert (Rjklein4470)
Member Username: Rjklein4470 Post Number: 262 Registered: 3-2002 |
Sorry to hear that you are leaving, but this forum in no different than life. You have to filter out, and take everything with a grain of salt. After a while you will get to know the fellow chatters. There are some in here that can BS with the best, and some that have great knowledge. | ||
| DJParks (Djparks)
Member Username: Djparks Post Number: 323 Registered: 2-2003 |
If this board had 500 Tonys it would no longer be THIS board and I doubt many of the insightful, intelligent, humorous and helpful poeple that now frequent this board would stay around. I for one agree that all of the users need to stick to basic guidlines that our administrator Rob has laid out this site. Nobody likes to have their time wasted by senseless babble and I think this is why so much animosity was directed towards Tony. Tony started threads without really having anything to offer to the subject except the original question. THAT is not a discussion, THAT is manipulation and THAT is also a waste of other peoples time. Sorry you have to leave Red. I don't think it is necessary because the reason you are leaving no longer exists on this site. Regards, DJ | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4892 Registered: 5-2001 |
Red, although in principle you are right, in the incident you site you are not. Art and the others are right on. You come here and have nothing consturctive to say and actually call out crap then leave. We don't agree about everything, we have agruments here about a lot of things but coming here not to give anything productive and just rant 290+ post of crap ho needs that? I personally do not agree with Arlie in 95% of the cases and sometimes he just plain iritates me. Do I call his names, no we get into a little post war and that is it. After everyting is done I am happy he is here because he has brought a lot of "other" thoughts and ideas to this board. At the end of the day that is all that counts. | ||
| Tom RM (Tgitom)
Junior Member Username: Tgitom Post Number: 135 Registered: 8-2002 |
I think "the Don" is the police officer here...............sheesh give me a break.. who cares! did he commit murder? thats how some people acted....... | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3883 Registered: 9-2001 |
what if the board had 500 "tonys" I think we would have a problem. The board has to police itself - if people don't like it they are free to leave. It not about arrogance or financial means its about honest exchange of views and issues related to Ferrari. If you are consistently not being honest the board does not want you | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Intermediate Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 1934 Registered: 7-2001 |
Is Rob the crazy uncle that drinks too much? I try to stay away from the flame wars, but I also have a low tolerance for BS. If you want to join the board to learn or contribute, welcome. If you come to make waves, you deserve what you get. | ||
| PeterS (Peters)
Member Username: Peters Post Number: 807 Registered: 1-2003 |
I feel my post 'TonyRobertGate' augments Red's decision to bail. We got sucked into replying to moronic threads that may have brought out a side of us (including myself on a few posts) in which tongue biting was probably in line as a prudent move on our part. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 2031 Registered: 1-2002 |
Once again, I find myself agreeing with Art 100%. Could this be a trend, Art?  | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1921 Registered: 6-2001 |
I don't think there is any discrimination between owners and want to be owners, or owners not yet. There is a difference when a person who doesn't own a Ferrari, posts a thread that is offensive to Ferrari owners, and lies about his background. That person got exactly what he deserved. Do people exaggerate? You bet, its part of human nature. There are some very successful people on this board, some who don't brag are actually people who have contributed quite a bit to our society. My sense of the people who own Ferraris is that for the most part they have achieved something in this life. True some of them inherited their estate, and don't fall into that category, but for the most part, the people here have indeed done somethings that has helped society in some manner, and in doing so, got sufficient captial to buy a Ferrari. Others who haven't yet made that achievement, are part of this chat in the hope that sooner or later, they can make the same achievements. Red, if you feel that you don't belong, you probably don't. Find another group that fits your needs, and I wish you well. Art | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 401 Registered: 10-2002 |
Rob, I thought you have all the answers. | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Intermediate Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 1444 Registered: 7-2002 |
This place is like a small family and after you are here for awhile you become part of it. Sure we all sorts..the crazy uncle who drinks to much, the fat aunt with hair on her lip and the grandpa who hugs the cousins just bit too long. However, when some ding dong shows up and starts throwing out jabs we tend to defend our friends and family. Also, it is easy for things to get out of hand and distorted on the internet with the anonimity. Can't we all just get along? | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 5359 Registered: 12-2000 |
Where did all the drama queens start coming from lately? | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 399 Registered: 10-2002 |
And I DON'T lie. | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 398 Registered: 10-2002 |
Of all things, I think HONESTY comes first. There is a price to pay for keeping it, though. People on this forum are generally good-hearted and helpful. They do not frown on the non-owners, they do not jump on the less fortunate. Des never owns a Ferrari, but he is well received. Jonas has had more than his fair share of "busted" experiences, but no-one goes after him anymore after he has come clean. In any event, I wonder if it is right to jump to conclusion against everybody on this forum just because there is a particular individual dislike of a certain threads or posts. | ||
| "The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member Username: The_don Post Number: 5377 Registered: 8-2002 |
so was Tony..... | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 4730 Registered: 8-2002 |
Yeah, but Matt, O.J. was innocent... | ||
| "The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member Username: The_don Post Number: 5375 Registered: 8-2002 |
It has nothing to do about being better then anyone one else. It has to do about being caught and not being able to admit it. I guess Red and Jeff it's o.k. to lie? human nature? Stu hit the nail on the head. Right now. Red and Jeff's mentallity are no better then Tony's or O.J.'s | ||
| stu cordova (Balataboy)
Member Username: Balataboy Post Number: 455 Registered: 4-2001 |
Jeffrey - Yours was a very sad post. If you're not a part of the solution...then you're a part of the problem. | ||
| David Stoeppelwerth (Racerdj)
Member Username: Racerdj Post Number: 299 Registered: 1-2003 |
For the most part, I don't see any different treatment of owners and non-owners here. Until 16 months ago I was a non-owner and waited 48 years to become one. I ADMIRE the younger owners who are realizing their dreams much earlier than I did. What kind of people are here? I talked with a non-owner long distance on the phone Indy to Colorado about my experience and was not his first call. Generally people will do anything possible to help others here. I have given people their first rides in a Ferrari. I even had a Bread Delivery Truck driver at a Shell try to pay me to take him for a ride (I took him while his helper was stocking shelves). I had another think my car was a new Mustang and even talked to him. In Indy there are not many F cars around and all the owners I have come across really promote the Marque. This forum has great info and generally a willing group of people to help others. I will always enjoy promoting the car and will do it without wanting personal gain. | ||
| robert biscan (Tn_ferrari_bob)
New member Username: Tn_ferrari_bob Post Number: 19 Registered: 1-2003 |
All the kid had to do was post the pictures, and man did he have an arrogance about him. He may have been having fun irrating the board but when he was had he should have said, "you guys are good" and that he was having some fun. I don't blame the board that confronted him at all. I did not participate at all in the discussion but I did read it and I enjoyed it. | ||
| Henry D. Chin (Hanknum)
Junior Member Username: Hanknum Post Number: 171 Registered: 2-2002 |
Red & Jeff Very well said. I can't agree with you guys more. | ||
| Scott A. B. Collins (Scott)
Junior Member Username: Scott Post Number: 178 Registered: 6-2001 |
DES...that is a really well-spoken response. In my experience, Ferrari owners and enthusiasts have been among the nicest, most accomidating, and friendliest group of car enthusiasts that I have had the pleasure to associate with. We all have our buttons that can be pushed, and none of us is pious to the point of perfection. Nonetheless, this is a great community. Like DES, I got my first Ferrari ride from a board member before I was an owner. I have gotten invaluable advice and contacts in spite of my having little to offer in return. I salute this board and its members. I know that the group can rise above the occassional disagreements. I also believe that every community needs to police itself, and IMO that is what went on with Tony. | ||
| William Huber (Solipsist)
Intermediate Member Username: Solipsist Post Number: 1131 Registered: 9-2001 |
Wow, he deleted his profile. Profound words though. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 4712 Registered: 8-2002 |
Red... i'll admit, through all aspects of life, i'm a pretty negative and pessemistic person... i don't approach too much with a glass-half-full attitude... That's no one's fault but my own... Ferraris and exotics in general captivate me like nothing else, so when i found FerrariChat, i approached it with a different attitude... "Wow, Ferraris...!" i thought... i jumped right in and have never looked back... Maybe i didn't get off to such a good start... There have been posts here, all about me - some haven't been too pretty, either... i've received my share of hate mail and nasty comments, put-downs, etc. but you have to roll with the punches... There are all sorts of people in this world and if i found this website, then anyone else can find it, too... There's going to be stuff like this whenever you take a whole bunch of people from all sortsd of different backgrounds and put them in a group... If Rob deleted every person that said or did something off-color, there'd be three people here - and Rob wouldn't even be one of them...! My FerrariChat experience has changed my life, literally, forever... Because of FerrariChat, i got my first ride in a Ferrari... It was a Nart Blu 550... The most intense experience of my life... Soon after that, i was fortunate enough to ride in a very milked out Lotus, a 355 and a white Testarossa; that same night i drove an NSX... i've been fortunate to meet some very cool people; i've spoken to some very nice people via phone and email, as well... i could list a whole lot more, but that's not the point - i take a few on the chin here and there, but that's part of the experience... That's part of life... i hope you reconsider and stay here, this community has so much to offer; so much to offer anyone in any corner of the Ferrari community. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1312 Registered: 5-2002 |
Wow Jeffrey, you really opened up a king-size bottle of truth with that posting. Some folks need a big tall glass full! Be sure and save some for later. The board may need it! | ||
| Erik (Teenferrarifan)
Member Username: Teenferrarifan Post Number: 285 Registered: 2-2003 |
well said Randall and that is another thing red how many people do you know that will look at a car for you on the other side of the country that you never even met in person. Or who would take a teenager for a ride that was never in one before an f-chatter again. This is a great group of people and the information that can be learned here is better then any mags this is owners first hand experiences. Erik | ||
| Jeffrey Wolfe (86mondial32)
Junior Member Username: 86mondial32 Post Number: 98 Registered: 5-2003 |
Red.. I agree completely. If you read any of my posts I lean towards a contempt for many of the owners posts I read here. Either they own a "little" repair shop or feel that they have the universal lock on what Ferrari ownership should mean. It's not new... I have noted it in owners of everything from Power boats to Airplanes. Same old crap. I would love to spend some track time with many of the so called "experts" to show them what Enzo was really about. They even try to rewrite the history of their steeds.... Most need to get a clue.... Enzo thought the road car buyers were chumps. He took pride in what he made but laughed all the way to the bank with their money. There are a few true enthusiasts here... but most are ego driven people that want to share their experiences only to make themselves feel special. I'm not going to leave... Being a wrencher I can gleam some good info when I need it.. and enjoy the fact that I am getting one over on the "experts". I only hope that you don't let their asswipe mindset effect how you feel about your Ferrari. Drive it and enjoy... | ||
| Randall (Randall)
Member Username: Randall Post Number: 559 Registered: 1-2003 |
As I saw it the harassment was aimed at a person that was a proven liar and also the type of person who chooses to slander entire groups (lawyers are scum, etc). A person showed up, talked trash, got called out, couldn't back himself up and had to run away. Some people may lie a little, and that's tolerable. But non-stop lies and trouble making shows a person to have a real lack of decency. Everything I seen on this group is people are typically very helpful. Even taking time out of their day to take measurements, pictures, do research, etc. for complete strangers that they may never meet. Hopefully kids see this site, and realize honesty is best and it's good to help out your fellow man, even if you have nothing to gain from it. | ||
| Erik (Teenferrarifan)
Member Username: Teenferrarifan Post Number: 284 Registered: 2-2003 |
Red I hear what you are saying but being 17 I can tell you I value what f-chatters say. They have achieved their goal or are working on ways to get them. They talk about here in OT about how they will reach them as well. Also f-chatters are more then willing to help out any fellow f-chatter that has a question or problem. Go ahead ask any question and in 4 hours I can gaurantee an answer by someone here. It is the people that lie that have the problem. Kids should see that people are lieing and getting away with it. I have said this before I don't own a ferrari now, but I won't lie about it. It seems as if this lieing doesn't bother you IMO. As TomD said this is one of the few sites that gives non owners any involvement and really makes them feel part of the group. I am sorry you feel that way. Erik | ||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
Junior Member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 241 Registered: 12-2002 |
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out! Signed, Everyone | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1311 Registered: 5-2002 |
Leaving after 17 posts. Now that's staying power! | ||
| Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
Junior Member Username: Tuttebenne Post Number: 188 Registered: 3-2003 |
Amen. | ||
| Red GTS2 (Redgts2)
New member Username: Redgts2 Post Number: 17 Registered: 3-2003 |
We are all so fortunate to have the financial means to purchase our exotic Italian sports cars. People, we actually fulfilled one of our many dreams and goals by buying a Ferrari � isn�t that amazing?! We are actually on top of the automobive food chain. While other people are hustling to make ends meet, we have the discretionary income to purchase luxury toys, join tennis clubs, buy horses, and buy other stuff that�s not necessary for survival. Let�s face it, we are living well and well to do; but, karma, and in my Catholic upbringing, God, has a funny way of making the proud humble � our Ferrari days can be gone in a flash, and we can lose our financial position based on poor decisions and/or just plain bad luck. Regardless of the Ferraris that we own or don�t own, at the end of the day, we are just working people like every other American; we wake up in the morning to go to our high salaried jobs, so we can keep the house payments going, plan our retirements, pay the insurance for our Ferraris, put our children through school, and make our spouses proud of us so that they never regret the decision they made to be in our lives. We all have a need to feel accepted; and, sometimes, because we want to feel accepted we exaggerate the truth and lie. We come to this chat community because we share a common interest: our enthusiasm for Ferraris and our need to belong to a group that share our enthusiasm for Ferraris. Sometimes, this enthusiasm compels us to lie or exaggerate the truth because we hear all about the great Ferraris the other guy possesses. For whatever reason, we ALL lie and exaggerate the truth � if it�s not about Ferraris, then it�s about the square footage of our house; it�s about our wives falling in love and chasing us first; it�s about our kids being the top guns in school. I�m new to this community. I am extremely disappointed in my readings of people competing with one another and accusing people of lying. I hate reading all the profanity and threats we make against each other. It�s really sad to read about flagrant abuse of money, such as calling someone out to prove to the community that he does or does not have a Ferrari � so what? Be fortunate and grateful that you have what you have � really, isn�t that all that matters? Is knowing that the other guy doesn�t have a Ferrari contribute to your bottom line? Is this what becomes of people who have the financial means to buy Ferraris? At the end of the day, the person your created libel content about is a father, a husband, a guy like you and me just working to put food on the table, his kids through school, planning his retirement, and making his wife proud. I�m leaving this community because I don�t want to be associated with the libel content that I�ve been reading. Kids and people who don�t have Ferraris, but wish one day to be in your shoes, read all this content � we are not being responsible, and we are not setting good examples to those people who envy us and respect our intellect and talent that enabled us to have the financial means to buy a Ferrari or two. I hope they understand that wealth doesn�t have to be rude or ugly or mean. Good-bye. RedGTS2 |