| Author | Message | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 718 Registered: 11-2002 |
Interior pannel? Go for it, though it doesn't weigh that much. Don't change the guts or exterior though, it's there to protect you. I suppose you could pull the power window motors, and change the glass to Lexan with a manual pull of leather like vintage cars. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 2177 Registered: 1-2002 |
Thanks, Mark!!! Nick, the doors contain window motors, steel impact protection bars, and lots of leather. None of these is light... | ||
| Mark Moon (Enzomoon)
Junior Member Username: Enzomoon Post Number: 135 Registered: 4-2002 |
Dave: The 550 is a Tubular Steel Frame design with aluminum welded to it with the use of Feran which allows the aluminum panels to be welded to the frame.....or so I have read. | ||
| Nick Yim (Yimn)
New member Username: Yimn Post Number: 48 Registered: 11-2002 |
The door on the 550 is awefully heavy. Anyone knows why? I am thinking about taking out the door panel and changing it to CF. Any comments? | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 830 Registered: 4-2003 |
Oompf... >>> You can also install six point harnesses to match, even if you don't use them, I've done this dual belt installation in 550's before. <<< Although Rob S' technical wisdom is far beyond mine, I would MOST STRONGLY advise AGAINST this.... Never, EVER, mount 4 or 6 point harnesses in a car that has NO roll-over cage !!! In case you do crash and land upside-down, a 3 point belt will allow you to move sideways (by yourself or by impact) thus limiting the damage to your body. A 4 or 6 point will keep you strapped in your upright position and when the roof collapses, your head, neck and backbone are fully exposed to the impact. Jack | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 2110 Registered: 1-2002 |
Um...ahh...er...I am not sure, but I think it is a full steel frame. Anyone else know for sure? | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Advanced Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 3205 Registered: 6-2001 |
Dave, does the 550 have a full steel frame, or is it a unibody with steel subframes? | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 2107 Registered: 1-2002 |
Nick, also remember that the 550 has a STEEL frame. The 360 has an aluminum frame. Tough to make up for all that weight difference without making the car a loud, uncomfortable oven... | ||
| Ming Cheng (Onlinesys)
Member Username: Onlinesys Post Number: 305 Registered: 5-2002 |
Couldn't agree more with JRV and Chris A. | ||
| Joseph M. (Reddog)
New member Username: Reddog Post Number: 5 Registered: 5-2003 |
remember Nick, a wise street racer once said "dont look for one place to lose 100lbs, look for 1,600 places to lose an ounce" theres plenty of fat that can be trimmed still. | ||
| Nick Yim (Yimn)
New member Username: Yimn Post Number: 46 Registered: 11-2002 |
I drove my 360 for a couple days and my 550. The 550 felt so much heavier-even people who know nothing about car can feel the difference. Does anyone know how much each component of the car weight so that I can decide what to take out. I really think the 550 can be a much better street racer if I can cut the weight down to something like 1400kg vs the stock 1690kg. Eager to read all Fchatters' response. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1792 Registered: 11-2002 |
Was listening with interest. Agree with the seat idea. First and formost, to drive fast safely one must be comfortable and 'very secure' in the seat to "RELAX" ! Then suspension (first lowering & corner balance) and tires! Having driven several 550's it's hard to imagine someone already driving around at full throttle thru corners and now needing more power and speed. The way it really works is, cars are far more capable than a driver for a very very long time before the drivers capabilities exceed the cars. | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 698 Registered: 11-2002 |
Dear Nick, Thanks for the additional information. I will agree with our fellow FChatters, and here's my spin: 1. Seats. For ultimate comfort, buy Recaro's all carbon race shell, this is by far the most comfortable race seat, it's OE on many Porsche lightweight editions, and in many endurance race cars. This will take out ~100 lb. (Weigh your seats, I don't remember how heavy they are.) If you want a touch of authenticity, go with OMP as they're OE in the Challenge. You can also install six point harnesses to match, even if you don't use them, I've done this dual belt installation in 550's before. 2. Don't remove the airbags or catalysts. 3. Chris' advise is improve the suspension, and I'd agree with his points. This will sharpen the response. The OE Bilstein dampers can be custom tuned, springs may be changed. Remember though, suspension tuning is a compromise, you'll lose a bit of the compliance to gain crisp turn-in and ultimate response. I agree also that for street driving, the remainder of the diet is not worth the cost. Tune the suspension despite the mass of the car. If you only drive in the dry, warm weather, go for a set of DOT approved race tires. They won't be safe in a heavy rain, but will be amazing in the dry, even just on the street. Won't last too long though. | ||
| Nick Yim (Yimn)
New member Username: Yimn Post Number: 45 Registered: 11-2002 |
Chris, welcome back. Hope to see you this Sunday. Will talk more then | ||
| Chris A. (Asianbond)
Junior Member Username: Asianbond Post Number: 140 Registered: 5-2002 |
Hey Nick, it's Chris here. The fellow f-chatters gave great suggestions for reducing the weight but most of those mods are quite hard core and more appropriate for a track car. In any event, it will be extremely difficult to overcome the front heavy feel of the 550 when you throw the car into the tight switchbacks we take on the morning drives. It's just the overall design of having such a large 12 cyl motor hanging out front that will never allow you to achieve the near effortless front weight transfer handling of your mid-engine 360. Besides removing the extra weight, I would recommend installing a stiffer shock/spring combo/rollbar and extremely good brakes. That should allow you to take the curves much smoother with less lateral front end roll. I rather suggest you leave the 550 for grand touring and mod your 360 for the hardcore handling duties. Btw, if you're going to order the 360 stradle, definnitely go with the blue with beige leather interior. I took the factory tour last friday and saw that color combo in person, it is absolutely incredible. The red, silver and black cars look dull in comparison. The racing stripe also adds alot to establish the one-off exotic look. The ceramic brake discs were HUGE! | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2672 Registered: 2-2001 |
some nice kinesis wheels will drop your unsprung weight by maybe 40%. Thats a big deal. The interior with all the leather & silencing foam is quite heavy, several 100 #s. You could remove all the silencing material then reinstall the interior. $$ but that would drop some weight. Some nice adjustable cloth racing seats would offer more supprt & a lot less weight than Ferrari leather seats, unless you have the carbon fiber sport seats | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 945 Registered: 1-2002 |
nick- your 550's got Al body panels, moving to carbon fiber, unless you don't paint them, will not be worth the expense -- these will be very $$$. As far as seats are concerened I'd recomend the sparco SPG or pole position, or the carbon/kevlar back sparco EVO's. Or something similar, only a fixed bucket seat will really yield a significant reduction of weight. Just make sure you get a seat that retains the stock seat belt attachments, as you should never run harnesses on a car w/out roll over protection. The steering wheel, well, you may not want remove b/c you're car is still mostly a street car , and the airbag will benefit you in case of a collision. If it were me, and my car, I'd do the following: lightweight wheels (volk te37's, work emotion, volk CE28n's, etc.) ~3000 w/ tires bucket seats (recaro, sparco, etc.) ~3000/set 2 piece rotors w/ Al hats the rest would be labor, just pull out everything you dont need in the car, like: spare tire, paneling, sound deadening, etc. My trunk:  from the seats back, that's what my car looks like. In that pic I still had the rear seast, but those are long gone now. | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Intermediate Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 1185 Registered: 10-2001 |
u can change the Door panels , hood and get them in CF but that might be pretty expensive . U can get magnesium wheels ( dunno what the standard wheels are made of ) . About the Airbag , i wouldnt take it out as u dont plan to track it . | ||
| Nick Yim (Yimn)
New member Username: Yimn Post Number: 44 Registered: 11-2002 |
thanks everyone for the response so far. I don't intend to race the car as there is no track in Hong Kong but I do drive "fast" from time to time on the street and just feel the car can handle much better by cutting some weight. I use the car quite often so comfort is still important. Cost-wise, I don't have a budget yet but US$10-15K would be acceptable. The power seat is first to go. Any suggestion which one I should go?? The steering wheel. I am struggling wiht myself whether I should take off the airbag or not. Any suggestion. The Door panel, I am thinking seriously about changing it to CF. Pros and COns??? How about De-cat the car? Would that cut down a lot of weight?? Is there anything else I can do besides the interior that will help cut weight? | ||
| Chris Coffing (Valence)
Junior Member Username: Valence Post Number: 84 Registered: 3-2003 |
Nick, if you're interested in carbon fiber body panels, this is my department. I would love to get involved with a 550 project. Send me an e-mail if you want to discuss this option. Chris Coffing Valence USA F-chat sponsor [email protected] | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 942 Registered: 1-2002 |
I have an issue of "racecar engineering" that entails the transformation that took the 550 from a cruiser to a racer. All the body panels are carbon fiber, no heater core, a/c, new gearbox (with new housing), no interior, no sound deadedning, new suspension pieces, etc. Nick, it all depends on how far you want to go. Are you going to sell the car? Keep it forever? eventually race it? etc. One of the first things you could do would be to: strip out the trunk, remove the spare/toolkit, replace the seats with aftermarket buckets, pull the steering wheel and install an aftermarket (sans airbag and airbag ecu), remove pass airbag and tray, remove power locks, alarm, etc. after that it will begin to cut into your comforts. Reducing the weight of your car is cheap --if you're doing the labor-- but once you decide to replace components that's when it gets expensive. Another part of the equation is rotating mass: wheels, rotors, and unsprung weight; i.e., suspension pieces. My suspension is over 60lbs lighter than my stock setup, but the cost, err. | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 693 Registered: 11-2002 |
Nick, I've done this type of project many times for customers, so a few questions to assure satisfaction: 1. How do you 'use' you car, now and in the future, track, street, what percent of total mileage for each? 2. How do you define success with the project (other than weight?) Performance goals like a target lap time or acceleration performance? 3. Who's doing the work? Cost of time and/or labor? 4. What's your budget? As already stated, the easiest (best ROI) is seats. After this step, removing weight becomes expensive. Best regards, Rob | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1302 Registered: 12-2001 |
You might look into what prodrive has done. there are various articles about the cars. | ||
| Nick Yim (Yimn)
New member Username: Yimn Post Number: 43 Registered: 11-2002 |
I need more input from fellow Fchatters. I have many ideas but don't know which will work out the best. | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Intermediate Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 1169 Registered: 10-2001 |
Nick keep us informed on your 550 Maranello diet ! Its going to be one amazing machine  a 550 Stradale | ||
| Nick Yim (Yimn)
New member Username: Yimn Post Number: 42 Registered: 11-2002 |
Yes, I am an AM driver on Sunday. Would you like to join us? shoot me an email at [email protected] | ||
| Peter (Bubba)
Member Username: Bubba Post Number: 456 Registered: 5-2002 |
Change the hood, the rear trunk, and the 2 doors to carbon fiber or something light. Use plastic instead of glass for your windows. Seriously though, the car is plenty fast as is. Do you plan to turn it into a racer or something? The new SL55 weighs about 300kg more than the 550 and it's damn fast. BTW, Nick, I see you are in HK. Do you go out on AM drives every Sunday? | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 737 Registered: 9-2002 |
The spare, the tool kit, the mats... ...lets not forget the radio/speakers/cd player/changer/amps/etc. Who needs a radio in a ferrari anyway? | ||
| Nick Yim (Yimn)
New member Username: Yimn Post Number: 41 Registered: 11-2002 |
I love the 550 but the thing is way too heavy, so I am contemplating a Weight loss program for the car. Starting with the pwer seat, door panel etc. If anyone has any suggestion or ideas as to how I can cut the weight down to soemthing like 1400kg, it will be greatly appreciated. |