| Author | Message | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1326 Registered: 5-2002 |
Rub it in their faces!!! http://www.fmtc.com/~imp/pictures/vw_front.jpg | ||
| Andrew-Phillip Goalen (Andrewg)
Junior Member Username: Andrewg Post Number: 97 Registered: 9-2002 |
Taek, I've seen AC's and I've seen AC Shelby Cobras, and I've seen kit cars, the badges however seem to be made by the same guy!!!!! just wish I could still get the Ferrari Owners Club stuf as it always marked out who had or who hadnt made the sacrifice!!! Buy a Shelby support the plastics industry!!!!! | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1259 Registered: 11-2002 |
Hahaha That's right Andrew! That's the best part. I think that is the reason why he didn't really win the case as he would have liked. Kit cars can still be built it's just that they can't be sold with the badging or some silly thing like that. The badging can be bought separately and added on by the user if they feel so inclined. Cheers | ||
| Chris Coffing (Valence)
Junior Member Username: Valence Post Number: 101 Registered: 3-2003 |
Taek, especially because of the rare Gold paint on Dirt interior color combination. | ||
| Andrew-Phillip Goalen (Andrewg)
Junior Member Username: Andrewg Post Number: 96 Registered: 9-2002 |
Robert, can't agree more, the owners club in England a couple of years ago were able to badge things as the Ferrari owners club but today.... Taek i always think its funny that Shelby claims copyright etc for the cobra when its actualy an AC Cobra not a shelby cobra and the AC Ace its based on is a copy of the Ferrari 166mm Barchetta with bodywork by Touring, I really do thing that Bianchi-Anderloni should sue the f*****g Ar*e off Shelby for copying and copyrighting Anderloni's Design!!! | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1256 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>I did raise the value of the car by $45,000 by doing this, though.<< Hahaha! Good one! Cheers | ||
| Chris Coffing (Valence)
Junior Member Username: Valence Post Number: 100 Registered: 3-2003 |
Thanks for all the wonderful info, guys. It's interesting that you can buy $5 (licensed) sticker sets which you can put on anything, yet someone making seats that I'm guessing were very fine and quite expensive gets shut down. I guess this makes sense, because if you stick the SF decal on your friend's '83 Golf, as I did, most people still won't think it came from Italy. I did raise the value of the car by $45,000 by doing this, though. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1253 Registered: 11-2002 |
Yup Arlie, It gets pretty complicated. Look at Shelby suing all these kit car manufacturers. I'm sure there are tons of others out there we don't see because the fires get extinguished before they see the light of day. Cheers | ||
| Robert W. Garven Jr. (Robertgarven)
Junior Member Username: Robertgarven Post Number: 185 Registered: 2-2002 |
it used to be cooler in the old days when not "only" oficial merchandise was available, better selection , wider variety, sometimes the horse looked like a donkey though :-) | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1325 Registered: 5-2002 |
I wonder if some of you are familiar with a similar occurance that happened with the GM trademark about 10 years ago. There was a fellow in Pennsylvania who made repro GM stickers for Corvettes. He made many different types of air cleaner, door sill, emissions data, and other types of stickers that were used on older Corvettes. He had been openly making and advertising his stickers for many years with no hassle from any legal problems. Then one day, some police officers raided a Corvette chop shop somewhere in Pennsylvania and found some of his repro stickers among the shop items. They had been ordered by the chop shop guys to use in "restoring" their stolen cars. Apparently General Motors got wind of these stickers being made and used on stolen cars, so eventually, the sticker guy was arrested, even though he had no connection with the chop shop operation. General Motors had a whole stack of charges against him, basically founded on his manufacturing of stickers containing trademarked GM logos. The whole incident was a collosal joke, because the guy had been advertising the stickers in major Corvette magazines for years. But GM decided to make an example of him, and continued their legal attack. But the publicity backlash from loyal Corvette enthusiasts who were disgusted by GM's greedy legal attacks hurt GM's reputation among Corvette lovers. GM's case against the guy really crumbled when his attornies revealed that GM's toll free information hot line had actually RECOMMENDED the guy as a source for obsolete stickers many times. GM was looking like a greedy Goliath the the sticker guy's little David. After all the bad publicity smoke cleared, GM decided to drop the charges and set up a licensing system to allow people to manufacture repro and obsolete parts. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1246 Registered: 11-2002 |
In short Chris...it's not worth the headache. As I mentioned in my previous post...my friend got busted and he deserved it. People base their entire lives on creating something. Least one can do is respect it and not use their copyrights/trademarks for personal use. Cheers | ||
| Gerald L. Roush (Ferrmktltr)
Junior Member Username: Ferrmktltr Post Number: 146 Registered: 5-2003 |
I used the prancing horse as part of the Ferrari Market Letter logo for over 20 years. I had a verbal okay to do so, from two former members of upper management at Ferrari (unfortunately both now dead). I had proof that Ferrari (man and company) was well aware of my logo . . . it's even pictured in some editions of "piloti, che gente..." But when Ferrari (the company) decided to go big time into licensing I was politely informed that I had to change my logo. I considered fighting a legal battle to keep it but soon realized the foolishness of that! I am now on a first name basis with Ferrari North America's copyright attorney in New York City who enforces their rights. I will not accept any advertising that infringes on their copyrights and trademarks--too many hassles. You, too, can become acquainted with this pleasant fellow. Just start using their copyrighted and trademarked logos and you will soon hear from him. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1323 Registered: 12-2001 |
Been down that road a few times. EG.http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/251280/103864.html | ||
| Andrew-Phillip Goalen (Andrewg)
Junior Member Username: Andrewg Post Number: 80 Registered: 9-2002 |
Err has anybody not noticed that in the Middle of a P-Car badge is a prancing horse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1322 Registered: 12-2001 |
You guys kill me. The copyright protects original expression, as The Don's posting indicated. Thus, everybody that draws a horse can claim a copyright, so long as they did not copy from somebody else's. Then of course, two horses, independently drawn, will not infringe each other's copyrights, since there was no copying. And, the copyright does not protect the idea or concept, just the particular rendering. A trademark is a symbol of origin, like the old "guild" stamps, showing source as a verification of consistency from the same approved manufacturer. Trademarks can not only be words, but symbols, and the symbols can, if they consist of original expression, be copyrighted. Ferrari will crush anybody that applies their logo to commercial goods or services. Its not arguable. As to non profit uses, neither body of law requires profit as an element of the claim. There are, for copyright purposes, situations where you can use copyrighted material without permission, for commentary, parody, and the like. It is much harder to do so with a trademark. Thus, an independent repair shop can advertise that they repair ferrari, but if they used the horse, that would go beyond "fair use" and imply endorsement or authorization by the company. Disclaimers are held by the courts to be largely ineffective. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1245 Registered: 11-2002 |
Rich, I'm not sure on the non profit situations. I'm not a lawyer, or claim to be one. I doubt there would be an issue though. It would be pretty cold if they didn't allow it. Arlie, It's called the spoiled brat syndrome. Prevalent in many people. His dad saw it as a lesson and left it at that. This kid used to get a 250k a month allowance while in college. And no, that's not in Lira.  Sean F, The reason they went after him is because he infringed on copyrighted/trademarked/or whatever material. He did wrong and got a suitable punishment. You do have a point in that I feel they do this sort of stuff over the top to prevent others from even trying. Just walk by any of these knock off markets in Asia. Copyright violations left and right. His idea was to have the exact same interior for Ferraris except made with superior leather, and custom colors and textures. A guy in Japan wanted his interior made from snake and crocodile skin! Talk about an eccentric! (  Cheers | ||
| "The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member Username: The_don Post Number: 5497 Registered: 8-2002 |
They are not the same thing cop�y�right ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kp-rt) n. Abbr. c. or cop. The legal right granted to an author, composer, playwright, publisher, or distributor to exclusive publication, production, sale, or distribution of a literary, musical, dramatic, or artistic work. trade�mark ( P ) Pronunciation Key (trdm�rk) n. Abbr. TM A name, symbol, or other device identifying a product, officially registered and legally restricted to the use of the owner or manufacturer. A distinctive characteristic by which a person or thing comes to be known: the shuffle and snicker that became the comedian's trademark. | ||
| steve coleby (Ferraridriver)
Junior Member Username: Ferraridriver Post Number: 57 Registered: 6-2003 |
Mike Copyrighted or trademarked they basically mean the same thing. why pick up on this? does it really matter. Most people know what was meant! Steve | ||
| "The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member Username: The_don Post Number: 5496 Registered: 8-2002 |
I spent a great deal of time on the phone with legal over at FNA for Ferrarichat.. YOU CANNOT USE ANYTHING TRADEMARKED OR COPYRIGHTED BY FERRARI. HORSE, SHIELD, FONT, "S F" IMAGES. ETC. | ||
| steve coleby (Ferraridriver)
Junior Member Username: Ferraridriver Post Number: 56 Registered: 6-2003 |
Hi I was told the horse was not copyrighted as a few companies use a horse logo. Steve | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 675 Registered: 8-2002 |
Minor point, but logos aren't copyrighted, they're trademarked. | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Junior Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 238 Registered: 2-2003 |
Taek, The reason Ferrari went after your friend is because legally, they have to. If they'd allowed him to use their trademark without permission then someone else can come along and say "hey, they let him do it so I can too" and a judge will then say OK, and Ferrari will be up a creek and everyone will be allowed to use the trademark. Then you'd have unscrupulous individuals selling Ferrari stuff that was crap and giving Ferrari a bad name, even though they had nothing to do with it. Your friend should have asked, or left the horse emblem off his seats. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1322 Registered: 5-2002 |
Taek, if your friend's family was successful enough to own 30 Ferraris, and he was smart enough to put $100,000 into developing the seat business, why was he so naieve to think that a huge company like Ferrari would let him use their logo for free??? I've never invested one penney into any major business endevour, but even I know that you can't duplicate somebody else's copywritten logo. That's like making plastic drinking cups with the Coca Cola logo on them, then acting surprised when the Coke lawyers come knocking at the door. What were they thinking??? | ||
| rich (Dino2400)
Member Username: Dino2400 Post Number: 281 Registered: 10-2001 |
[Never mind. Plans have changed...] | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1244 Registered: 11-2002 |
Thanks TomD. Steve, That is an incorrect statement. The cavallino is also part of the headache. Many people use it, but if someone were to use it for profit, and if Ferrari wanted to, they could really put a hurting on your business. Cheers | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3987 Registered: 9-2001 |
from the ferrari site Ferrari's trade mark - with its Prancing Horse emblem - is one of the most immediately recognisable the world over. Ferrari strictly limits its use and only a few, very select companies have been granted a license to use it. Listed below are those firms, and their sphere of activity: | ||
| steve coleby (Ferraridriver)
Junior Member Username: Ferraridriver Post Number: 55 Registered: 6-2003 |
Chris The actual "prancing horse" Is not copyrighted. The Ferarri multicolour badge is? hope that helps you. Thanks Steve | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1243 Registered: 11-2002 |
I think both. I'll call him up. Funny thing is that his dad collects Ferraris and his family has something in the order of over 30 Ferraris. He refuses to buy any more new Ferraris now. Hahaha, pissed of a good client and they didn't even give a rat's ass. Cheers | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3986 Registered: 9-2001 |
man, I cannot type for shxt.  | ||
| Chris Coffing (Valence)
Junior Member Username: Valence Post Number: 99 Registered: 3-2003 |
Taek-Ho, did they get your friend because he was putting the logo one the seats? Or just because he was making seats for their car? | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1242 Registered: 11-2002 |
Oh I forgot to mention. There was a cavallino embossing on the headrests. Buttery leather. Fantastic. Too bad really, what happened. Cheers | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3985 Registered: 9-2001 |
others have said it better but it comes down to confusing the customer into beleiving something is authentic and authorized versus a knockoff, I know the NS logo and am not sure it is exactly the same as the ferrari one but nevertheless totally unrelated businesses etc. Look at the recent spike less case as an example - which BTW I think is ridiculous | ||
| Chris Coffing (Valence)
Junior Member Username: Valence Post Number: 98 Registered: 3-2003 |
Speaking of locomotives, every time a NS train rumbles by my shop, I smile, because of the 3' horse on the front. Granted, it is prancing the other way (right). | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1241 Registered: 11-2002 |
Ferrari protects it's name viciously. They will sink you in a heartbeat if you use their cavallino. If you try to license the product they first have to approve and then they'll charge you an arm and a leg pushing your products to ridiculous price ranges. A friend of mine was designing interior leather seats for Ferraris to sell aftermarket. Sold 1, only 1 set, after investing many 100k into the company, before the Ferrari sharks got to him and annihilated him. He lost quite a bit of money on the whole process, aside from his lost investment. That interior sure looked nice though. Shame. Cheers | ||
| Chris Coffing (Valence)
Junior Member Username: Valence Post Number: 97 Registered: 3-2003 |
I guess that's the difference between carbon fiber ______'s and locomotives... | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4973 Registered: 5-2001 |
Chris, just out of curiosity I would write them a letter asking them how you can buy the rights to use the horse for one thing or another. Otherwise, yes, I am with Tom, they will get you no matter what you disclaim underneath. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3984 Registered: 9-2001 |
we have had some discussions on this before, since they are parts related to cars you better believe if you get big enough they will come after you, | ||
| Chris Coffing (Valence)
Junior Member Username: Valence Post Number: 96 Registered: 3-2003 |
I'm wondering about selling items * NOT made by Ferrari * with the cavallino (horse emblem). I'm not talking about using the word "Ferrari" or in any way claiming that these (somewhat) hypothetical parts are made by Ferrari or its OEM suppliers. I see everything from stickers to cufflinks, and I'm guessing that not all of these are "authorized." Furthermore, with others like Porsche, some obscure faucet company, and Norfolk Southern railway using a prancing horse as part of its logo, does Ferrari even claim it? |