| Author |
Message |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 775
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 2:12 pm: | |
I have a carb 308 and a QV. I prefer the QV for many reasons. Shoot me an email if you have any specific questions about either or both. |
Brian Puskas (Inter911)
New member
Username: Inter911
Post Number: 15
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 12:00 pm: | |
No I have not seen the 79 Red car but another poster here has seen it and the black one at Autoforum. He advised that the black one did not appear too good (and Autoforum had advised me that it would not meet my needs as I was looking for one as near to perfect as I could find in Canada) but that the Red one looked very nice. If you're interest drop me a note and I'll forward you the e-mail I rec'd so you can follow up on it. I think I'm going to have to wait awhile as I'll be moving soon and buying another house so I'll have to see how that works out first...Unless something comes up that is too good to be true. |
david handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1162
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 10:54 pm: | |
If you can wait, I would save and get a QV. It would be worth the stretch to get a QV. Newer car, more updates, more power and more trouble free driving with FI. |
Jay Grande (Jay)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jay
Post Number: 1422
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 10:48 pm: | |
How about looking at a 308 GT4? Same engine with the carbs, better handling then the 308 GTB/S and way cheaper! Many don't like the looks of the GT4 but the car really grows on you. It looks much better in person than in pictures. It even has a back seat that could fit midgets. |
SD (Sers)
New member
Username: Sers
Post Number: 4
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 10:39 pm: | |
So, I guess my last question here is, other than the QV models, what would be the best 308 to buy? The carb or FI models? The reason why I've excluded the QVs is mainly because of price (unless I find one that's in good condition and reasonably priced). Or, is it best to wait for a good QV at a reasonable price? |
Tazio Nuvolari (Nuvolari)
Junior Member
Username: Nuvolari
Post Number: 247
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 9:46 pm: | |
Do not be discouraged by a car the has gotten paint and interior work done to it. The factory paint was very poor by modern standards and is well over 20 years old. If you are looking at a car that you tell yourself needs paint, you are looking at anywhere from $10,000CDN and up for a paint job. Think I'm out to lunch? just talk to someone with experience painting these cars; they are much more work than your average car. On the interior note; once again 20+ year old leather allied with less than modern tanning techniques means that most of these cars need their interior done. Do yourself a favour and go see lots of these cars. Even go see the cars you can't afford to see what is out there. Jumping on the first 308 you find can be a big mistake and I am very happy that I avoided that nightmare (I was hot on a car and it sold before I got there; luckily I bought a MUCH better car for a lot less). Experience has shown, and most people on the board will agree with me, that you should buy the best car you can. If you are too tight on money wait a little because even the most 'perfect' 308 ALWAYS needs something. Try to get a car where someone else has taken care of as many of those 'somethings' as possible so you don't have to (i.e. $$$$$$$) |
Dave (Dave)
Member
Username: Dave
Post Number: 534
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 9:23 pm: | |
From number sheets on the dyno the 1980-82 2 valve injected cars are down from the 205 HP found in 1978 - early 1980 carb cars, to around 197 HP in the U.S....
These cars, while the slowest of the 308 series, respond well to turbocharging, if future power upgrades are a concern.
|
SD (Sers)
New member
Username: Sers
Post Number: 3
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 9:11 pm: | |
Wow. This is pretty amazing. This board is great. Thanks for all the info.
The car I found is in Montreal, but I've seen that black 308 in Toronto at Autoforum on the net, Brian. Have you seen that one? Do you know what condition it's in? I believe they also have a red 1979 308. But that one has had a paint job and the interior redone, so it seems like that ones been beaten up a little.
I thought the power of the 1979 308 was around 240, but I guess I was wrong. Seems to be at the 205 mark. So, what would be better then - if a 1979 and a 1980 have the same power, wouldn't the 1980 be a better buy (updated engine, FI, etc.) - except of course for the sound of the engine.
All in all, I guess the best thing to do is to bring whatever car I'm interest in to get checked out.
Also, I guess maintenance isn't really a nightmare with these cars. As long as I can do most of the work myself, I should be able to keep the maintenance costs at a reasonable price. Am I right with this? |
Oliver Cagle (Ocagle)
New member
Username: Ocagle
Post Number: 42
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 9:01 pm: | |
I have a 78 GTS. My mechanic offered a lot of dicouragement, but I bought it any way. I have not been disapointed in any way nor has he. I did the engine and he did not touch the carbs. It runs real good I just drive it once and awhile on the weekends. I have done a lot to the car and I have a little yet to due. I will not get it painted. I have had 9 Pcars and always wanted a Fcar. It has been a great car and I may move up when my rich uncle gets out of the poor house to a 348 or a 355. I have restored cars before and I only clean them. I do that real good. |
Mitchel DeFrancis (4re308)
Member
Username: 4re308
Post Number: 969
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 8:44 pm: | |
Hey Sd, while I have a 84 QV, I will still chime in and tell you a little about the maintenance record of my car. I have owned it for over 2 years. When I first got it, I refurbished the entire cooling system, hoses, waterpump, radiator, thermostat and clamps. I did it all myself, which saved me a bundle of money. Anyway, I drive the car a lot, and it has never ever broken down on me. It's reliability top notch and it did pleasantly surprise me. I check the oil before every drive, and make sure there is coolant in it. Just about every month, I will pull the plugs, wires and extenders to check them out. My car astonishes me every single time I drive it. I love the car! A 308 is truly a fine automobile! |
david handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1159
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 8:18 pm: | |
Don,
Not terribly expensive. I think it must have run around $500 or so, this was using the Gates greenstripe coolant hose, and period correct fuel hoses. The most important fuel hose is the one between the fuel filler neck and the tank. A lot of folks forget that one....and it is important! |
Jay Grande (Jay)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jay
Post Number: 1420
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 7:58 pm: | |
Don I did all the hoses on my GT4. Took me a few hours but it isn't that hard to do yourself. Just disconnect the old hose and attatch the new one to the old, then pull it through as you pull the old one out. It gets a little tight but it will go through. Cost me about $100 for the coolant and vacuum hoses that run through the drivers side door frame front to back. |
Don Norton (Litig8r)
Junior Member
Username: Litig8r
Post Number: 194
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 7:32 pm: | |
David - you were correct on the lower hp figure for the '78 308 and deserve my apology. I thought they were the same but I was wrong.
What did it cost to get the fuel and coolant hoses done on your '78? |
david handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1157
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 6:02 pm: | |
Dave makes a good point. Any car that is 24 yo is going to need a careful inspection and look at anything made of rubber. I ended up having ALL the coolant hoses and fuel hoses replaced on my 78. Fortunately, the suspension bushings were still in good shape, and didn't need replacing. |
Jay Grande (Jay)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jay
Post Number: 1418
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 6:02 pm: | |
...and redoing all rubber hoses especially fuel! |
Dave (Dave)
Member
Username: Dave
Post Number: 531
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 5:56 pm: | |
Something else to think about, is most of the older 308's I have seen were in need of suspension bushings. |
david handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1155
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 5:49 pm: | |
BTW, I had a 78 308 carb car here are my thoughts:
Positives:
1) "classic" clean look without rear spoiler and blunt look of later 328.
2) Carb sound, yes it is very cool.
3) Reasonable maintanence costs (for a Ferrari)
4) Great fun to drive.
Negatives:
1) A little down on power.
2) Parts getting harder to find for things like console switches and such.
3) Original 14" wheels make tire choices limited. Upgrading to 16" QV wheels is recommended.
4) Finding an experienced mechanic who can adjust and sort out the carbs can be hard. But once set up, they seem to hold adjustment well.
5) Weber carbs are NOT like a modern car where you start and go....There is a bit of a "starting proceedure" and warm up needed before starting off. Requires patience... :-) |
Brian Puskas (Inter911)
New member
Username: Inter911
Post Number: 14
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 5:18 pm: | |
That wouldn't be the one at Autoforum would it? $42K for 100 plus kms? New paint and interior?
Brian |
Brian Puskas (Inter911)
New member
Username: Inter911
Post Number: 13
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 5:16 pm: | |
That wouldn't be the one at Autoforum would it? $42K for 100 plus kms? New paint and interior?
Brian |
david handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1153
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 4:59 pm: | |
For North American 308's the published hp figures are as follows:
75-77 240 hp
78-79 205
80-82 205
83 230
84-85 235
The 78-79 cars hp is strange, but verified by the owner's manual and period articles. My own car was dyno'd (78 308 GTS)and confirmed. The 78-79 North American cars differed significantly from earlier 308's in carb jetting (leaner), cam profiles, addition of two catalytic converters, single air pump, and other stuff that I cannot remember at present. |
Al Johnson (Bigal)
Junior Member
Username: Bigal
Post Number: 111
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 4:07 pm: | |
SD,
All sound advice. Mine is to do a PPI. I would never get a car without one. They don't uncover everything but at least you know more than without one. |
Jay Grande (Jay)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jay
Post Number: 1415
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 12:52 pm: | |
SD, I'm in Toronto. Where about's is the car you are looking at? There is an independent Ferrari mechanic here in TO that will do inspections. I think it is the best money you will ever spend. Shoot me an email. |
"The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member
Username: The_don
Post Number: 5780
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 12:32 pm: | |
"Are parts hard to find?"
Not really.
"Did the 75-76 cars have more HP than the 77-79 cars?"
no. 75-79 are 255, 80-82 are 205 and 83-85 QV are 245.
"Are electrics problematic on these cars?"
Not really. They can be but it depends.
|
SD (Sers)
New member
Username: Sers
Post Number: 2
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 12:30 pm: | |
Thanks for the offer Matt, but I live in Ottawa, Canada, - not very close to So Cal (South Carolina?). Unless you want to drive for a couple of days............
This is a major purchase for me and I don't want to become broke maintaining the car. I want to maintain it well and keep it in top running condition.
Some other questions:
Are parts hard to find?
Did the 75-76 cars have more HP than the 77-79 cars?
and
Are electrics problematic on these cars?
Thanks again. |
"The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member
Username: The_don
Post Number: 5773
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 11:29 am: | |
$2500 is a good price for a major. Clutches are now about $1300 and timing belt replacements are $1000.
I remember when I thought $500 for a major service on the Sebring conv was a lot. Now I am happy if a repair is under $500.
It's all relative. |
Darryl - TR&328 (Tr328)
New member
Username: Tr328
Post Number: 7
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 11:26 am: | |
Years ago I had a 1979 308GTS and it was pretty much problem free. I did some of the work myself. Re: Maintenance Cost high or not? It is all relative to what you consider high. I recall I spent somewhere around $2,500 for a major tune-up and around $1,900 for a clutch (this was years ago). It was my first Ferrari. I drove it everywhere, put over 75,000 miles on it. A good mechanic will not have any problem with the carburetors. Shopping for a car is so much fun. Good luck and check the maintenance records and vehicle history report for accidents. |
"The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member
Username: The_don
Post Number: 5771
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 11:23 am: | |
SD,
I have a 78 gts and I love it. It is also my daily driver.
Parts can be had cheaper from Ferrari of UK (f-chat sponser) than most other places. I would agree with Lawrence about the cost ratio of parts. If you get one that is inn good shape it should last for a while until you need service.
Do not buy parts of e-bay. Talk about a huge markup.
No issues with the carbs and they sound so much better then the FI and QV's. Nothing beats the sound of a Carb car @ 7k rpm.
Where abouts are you. If you are so cal local I can swing my car by and go over the cost issues.
Matt
[email protected] |
Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member
Username: Lawrence
Post Number: 705
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 11:16 am: | |
Before you purchase it, why not get someone who is familiar with them to inspect it for you. Parts can be expensive. Multiply Porsche dealer prices on Porsche parts by 1.5 and you get corresponding Ferrari parts prices.
If nothing major happens and you do the work yourself, they are not expensive IMO. My 328 has cost me little in the past 15 years. (I am knocking on some wood here.) |
SD (Sers)
New member
Username: Sers
Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 11:01 am: | |
Hi all.
I'm looking at purchasing my first Ferrari, a 308. The QVs are a little out of my price range, so I'm looking at a 1979 308. I've found one that seems to be in really good condition. My questions on this car are: Is the maintenance expensive and very intensive and Are the carburetors hard to live with? I'm fairly mechanically inclined, so I can do a lot of work myself.
Any advice would be great.
Thanks. |