| Author | Message | ||
| Bruce Wellington (Bws88tr)
Advanced Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 2535 Registered: 4-2002 |
joseph wwoc in spring valley..ask for jim murphy , great guy..mention my name any questions, email me [email protected] bruce | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 2107 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>You need to be far more open minded, or, you'll learn the hard way eventually.<< In all honesty....until guys learn the hard way they truely lack the "perspective" to appreciate what Independents bring to the table. I really don't like customers that lack "perspective". They generally make unhappy clients!! Without an understanding of how bad it can be, time, money, problem wise I personally don't think Independents are a good choice for newish Ferrari owners. After a certian point in the learning curve it may be (and often is) a different story. At some point of the ownership/service experience many owners are then capable of understanding the value a good (best) Independent is all about. My advice in this particular situation is stick with the Dealer. It's fine with me if you want to mention my name to 'negotiate' a cheaper price. | ||
| Joseph Caretti (Pino)
Junior Member Username: Pino Post Number: 167 Registered: 4-2002 |
Just out of curiosity, Bruce, since we are in the same general area, where is your car getting worked on? Is it Algar, or is it an independant? Michael: I was quoted $7000 from Ferrari of Washington, but was told that they go "above and beyond" what normally gets done including painting engine components, etc, etc, etc. | ||
| Joe Pino (Joe_pino)
New member Username: Joe_pino Post Number: 4 Registered: 6-2003 |
Hello Michael, I saw your post earlier in the week and have followed it on/off since Tuesday. I hadn't realized you were so close to Houston. First off, if you have followed FChat for as long as I have, you would have seen/gathered far more dealer fiascos and errors that have happened (I'd say 4 to 1) over any independents making mistakes. I think a ''1 sample of an improperly installed clamp on an F355 from an independent and a later dealer success story '' from Art (sorry Art, don't mean to argue) ...is a big mis-guidance (sounds like 1 bad independent is all vs. saying ALL dealers are great B.S.). All I can say, having owned several Italian Fcars over the years, virtually every dealer experience I had was a bad one (quality wise, forget amount dollars for now). I was going to suggest taking the car to Pinnacle (JR). I'm positive you will come out better overall(quality wise and possibly $$ wise). I would HIGHLY suggest JR and HIGHLY suggest staying away from the dealer. (And I can almost bet, the dealer will far exceed their quoted price, meaning, you're not being told everything "yet") You need to be far more open minded, or, you'll learn the hard way eventually. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 2105 Registered: 11-2002 |
>> I would not, I repeat would not, use a non dealer for this work. There are too many small items which if screwed up, will cost you way more than getting it done right the first time>> Art, is this the same car that caught on fire after the service? It was you that had the 355 with the engine fire right? or if it was someone else here named Art that had the 355 engine fire excuse my mistake. >>Clamps that have to be put on right, and if you havent done a bunch of them, you may not know which way is the "right" way, could cause additional damage.<< Uhhhhh...speaking of putting clamps on correctly...have you forgotten so soon about the dealer installed Clamp Fiasco Frank had with his Boxer?????? My How Soon we Forget when selectively filtering reality! [  ] | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 2441 Registered: 1-2002 |
Henry, you are right: I had a dealership owner tell me that he makes his money on the service department had-over-fist! The sales dept. is there only to feed his service dept.! So I agree--Ferrari is purposely murky about publishing info as a way to keep their dealers in business, IMO. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2247 Registered: 6-2001 |
9k is about the right number. I would not, I repeat would not, use a non dealer for this work. There are too many small items which if screwed up, will cost you way more than getting it done right the first time. Clamps that have to be put on right, and if you havent done a bunch of them, you may not know which way is the "right" way, could cause additional damage. I paid almost that for my 30k service, and the car works very, very well now. Art | ||
| gary green (Minuke)
Junior Member Username: Minuke Post Number: 148 Registered: 7-2003 |
Henryk, I guess the dealer's feel that people that own F- cars have an open checkbook. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Intermediate Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 1019 Registered: 8-2001 |
Gary: BTW: Chicago dealers are charging more like $120 per hour. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Intermediate Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 1018 Registered: 8-2001 |
Gary: I agree 100%. I just put in a new "modified" clutch in my Boxer last wek......I did have to ask questions and JRV was very helpful.........the install went without a hitch.....put over 400 miles on the car since. I paid $2200 for the clutch.......dealer estimate was about $5,000.......needless to say, I went out and bought some more tools!!!!!!!!1 | ||
| gary green (Minuke)
Junior Member Username: Minuke Post Number: 147 Registered: 7-2003 |
Henryk, My mechanic who work's mostly on German car's told me " A Ferrari is no different than any other car" He said " If you want to pay 95.00 an hour take your car to the dealer, they will be happy to take your money" ( His labor rate is 60.00 an hour) That would add up to a big saving's on a 30K service. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Intermediate Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 1017 Registered: 8-2001 |
Dave: I meant no offense to your post. It is just that there is a "general" feeling that Ferrari engines are different from ANY other machimes........to which I strongly disagree. While I have the equipment, and tools to do the work myself, I have NO formal training in the repair of Ferraris.......fortunately, it happens to be a hobby of mine........which I truly enjoy. Yes, I would have to ask questions, if I had to dissasemble a motor, but this is not required in doing a major service. Asking questions is ONLY due to the fact that Ferrari does NOT put out decent service manuals. I think this was planned by Ferrari, since they obviously don't want the information out there. Why?.....because more people would realize how easy it is and would do the work themselves. That is why I am a member of FChat........so I can get answers to questions. With the prices of Ferraris dropping, and the labor costs by dealers increasing, I just can't see me as being a rarity......at least, not for long. | ||
| michael mcnamee (Mm20288)
New member Username: Mm20288 Post Number: 30 Registered: 8-2002 |
Thanks for all the input, I think I'll have a sit down with FOH and some others. I'm really in no big hurry. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 2439 Registered: 1-2002 |
Henry, JMHO, but you are a rarity. I would not consider dropping & disassembling a 355's engine to be basic mechnaic's work, and I suspect that most here would agree with me. I wish I had your abilities & access to great equipment like lifts, etc...but I don't. So, my point is that FOH seems to do the proper job right, the first time, with the complicated stuff such as engine-out major services. I suspect that their racing experience helps them avoid a lot of mistakes. As you may suspect, I have NO connection whatsoever to FOH, and even bought my 550 from F of San Antonio. Thankfully, the major (cam belt) service on my 550 does not require dropping the motor. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Intermediate Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 1016 Registered: 8-2001 |
Dave: What do you mean by they do "superb work"? I just don't see anything "superb" in replacing plugs, oils, belts, and a few seals. I do my own service, and have replaced all the above on the various Ferraris that I have owned.....with no leaks, etc. With NO training on Ferraris, then do I do superb work?......it just goes to show how EASY it is to work on these cars (if I can do it), without paying the ridiculous prices. ANY mechanic should be able to replace these, without problems. These are very simple and straight forward. Let's get off this mistique that Ferraris are something "special", and only "qualified" mechanics can work on them........that is all BS. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 2436 Registered: 1-2002 |
Michael, I did say FOH would do superb work. I didn't say they'd be inexpensive. That said, the key part of the quote is "we are very busy right now". Here's my suggestion: ask him when they WON'T be busy, and how much it would cost then. Don't be afraid to bargain with them--the service techs get commission on the work they complete, I believe, and they may want to even out their incomes during the slow periods. You may be able to negotiate a MUCH better deal, but you won't know if you don't ask. Or, call JR Vallandingham at Pinnacle... | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Intermediate Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 1015 Registered: 8-2001 |
At $9,000, I would SERIOUSLY consider the following: Buy a lift, and all the tools you need, and then remodel the garage to put these things in, and do it yourself......you could probably add A/C and heat to the garage. I just can't believe people paying that kind of money, or anything near it, when the parts can be gotten for around $1,000, from what I have seen. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1639 Registered: 2-2001 |
I'm having the 30K done in a few weeks on my 360M. Quoted $2,700 at the dealer, including a 15% discount I had negotiated when I bought the car. Given that the 360 service does not require the engine to be out, the 355 should run about $4K- $6K, tops. $9K sounds a bit crazy to me. Ernesto Total maintenance for the 3 years of ownership has been about $4K (including the upcoming 30K). That's about $1,300 per year. Not bad (KNOCK ON WOOD). Oh, I also need brake pads... so add $300 to the total... | ||
| BILL CHIUSANO (My355)
Junior Member Username: My355 Post Number: 172 Registered: 3-2003 |
Yep 5-7k is the going rate. If you can get it done for 5k concider it a deal as long as everything is getting done. | ||
| gary green (Minuke)
Junior Member Username: Minuke Post Number: 146 Registered: 7-2003 |
Michael, I checked with a local Independant for the price of the 30K service for your car. The total price including everything you asked for is 6000.00. | ||
| Bruce Wellington (Bws88tr)
Advanced Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 2534 Registered: 4-2002 |
MICHAEL AS DOODY STATES....RUN FOR THE HILLS............ | ||
| michael mcnamee (Mm20288)
New member Username: Mm20288 Post Number: 29 Registered: 8-2002 |
I'm like you.....I could not believe it. They kind of made me fill they where doing me a favor just geeting in | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1528 Registered: 11-2001 |
double damn! like crazy eddie, that price is INNNNN-SANNNNE! but as they say, everything in texas is BIG. run, don't walk, to your nearest independent. or just f'ing ship the car to eastjabip and it'll STILL be way cheaper. doody. | ||
| Bruce Wellington (Bws88tr)
Advanced Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 2533 Registered: 4-2002 |
HOLY •••• THERE CRAZY..... I JUST BROUGHT MY TR FOR A 30K.ITS ALSO A 12 CYL..AND EVERYTHING INCLUDED ON YOUR LIST AND MORE, WITH FREE P/U/ AND DELIVERY WAS 4100.00 LABOR AND 1100.00 FOR PARTS...BETTER GET ANOTHER ESTIMATE.. BRUCE | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 2434 Registered: 1-2002 |
$9,000?  | ||
| michael mcnamee (Mm20288)
New member Username: Mm20288 Post Number: 28 Registered: 8-2002 |
The following was the quote I got from FOH. What do you guys think of it? *************************** Sorry I could not answer you earlier. About the 30K Service you are requesting for your car, I can tell you that the estimate will be as follows: 1-Timing belts, cam seals,cam cover gaskets,tensioner bearings,sparkplugs,air filters,fuel filter,oil filter,power steering belt,a/c belt,alternator belt,water pump rebuilt,thermostat,engine oil,gearbox oil replacement. Labor: 6,500.oo$ Parts: 2,500.oo$ 2-At the same time we will inspect : A/C System, cooling system, fuel injection,air injection, all fluids,brake and clutch system,front and rear suspension,steering rack,battery and electrical system, If we find any damage or parts that need replacement they will be estimated apart. We are very busy now, but I consider that if you call me in one week from now we can schedule an appointment for your car than. Please remember this is an estimate and the final value can vary from the original. Please let me know your decision at your convenience. Regards. | ||
| Malcolm West (Ferrari_uk_tech)
New member Username: Ferrari_uk_tech Post Number: 16 Registered: 7-2003 |
While the engine is out get FOH to check the condition of the camshaft oil seals - its far easier to replace the seals with the engine out and the cambelts removed | ||
| Dave Helms (Davehelms)
Junior Member Username: Davehelms Post Number: 92 Registered: 5-2003 |
Check the exhaust manifolds at the AIR lines for cracks, common in 96 cars. Closly check the manifolds all around the sheet metal seams for any signs of insulation pushing out. That would be an early sign of a header tube starting to leak. Compression check prior to anything. If you use FOH, these guys already know to look for these things. The techs there are some of the best to be found. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1506 Registered: 11-2001 |
assuming that you have all the service records, i would go through them with the mechanic doing your major/30k and ascertain what's been done and what hasn't. the service section of the users manual is pretty thorough (some would argue overly-so). i'm guessing that the only stuff that might have been ignored might be the non-motor-oil fluids (brake/clutch, gearbox, power steering). if skimped on, hopefully those omissions won't cost you anything extra. but otherwise i can't suggest anything beyond what's outlined in the 30k. doody. | ||
| michael mcnamee (Mm20288)
New member Username: Mm20288 Post Number: 23 Registered: 8-2002 |
Mr Doody, anything to add? Anything else to look for? | ||
| Bruce Wellington (Bws88tr)
Advanced Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 2504 Registered: 4-2002 |
FIGURE 5K, ENGINE OUT REPLACE CAM BELT AND CHECK TENSIONERS AND PULLEYS REBUILD WATER PUMP LET THEM CHECK FLYWHEEL AND CLUTCH ASSEMBLY.. VERY IMPORTANT..GOOD LUCK BRUCE | ||
| michael mcnamee (Mm20288)
New member Username: Mm20288 Post Number: 22 Registered: 8-2002 |
Thanks, Bruce. That is the kind of info i'm looking for. Mike | ||
| Bruce Wellington (Bws88tr)
Advanced Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 2503 Registered: 4-2002 |
MICHAEL SCROLL DOWN TO MY COMMENTS.. | ||
| michael mcnamee (Mm20288)
New member Username: Mm20288 Post Number: 20 Registered: 8-2002 |
Yes, the oil has been changed, yes minor things have been attended too. What I'm asking is about the major engin out service. | ||
| Bruce Wellington (Bws88tr)
Advanced Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 2501 Registered: 4-2002 |
ALWAYS KIND TO PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY ONES THAT BUY MY BATTERIES BRUCE | ||
| Patrick Denonville (Arizonaguy)
Member Username: Arizonaguy Post Number: 420 Registered: 4-2003 |
You could probably chew the oil like gum then. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1504 Registered: 11-2001 |
you're too kind bruce. plenty of other folks here with way more knowledge than i! the car has LITERALLY never had ANY service? doody. | ||
| Patrick Denonville (Arizonaguy)
Member Username: Arizonaguy Post Number: 418 Registered: 4-2003 |
They recommend a belt change every 3-5 years...yours are 7yrs old...Might want to get them done on the asap.Even though they are probably fine. | ||
| Bruce Wellington (Bws88tr)
Intermediate Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 2500 Registered: 4-2002 |
ITS FIRST SERVICE IN 7 YRS?? WOW. IM NOT FAMILIAR WITH A 355, BUT I HAVE A 88TR AND A 30K SERVICE (CHANGING CAM BELTS, TENSIONERS, REBUILDING WATER PUMP, ETC) WILL COST ME ABOUT 5K OR SO, PROVIDING THEIR IS NOTHING ELSE WRONG WITH THE CAR..HOPEFULLY THE FLYWHEEL AND CLUTCH ARE OK ASK MR DOODY ABOUT 355s..HES THE MAN HERE.. GOOD LUCK, BRUCE | ||
| michael mcnamee (Mm20288)
New member Username: Mm20288 Post Number: 19 Registered: 8-2002 |
I live in the Houston area. Will use FOH most likely. | ||
| michael mcnamee (Mm20288)
New member Username: Mm20288 Post Number: 18 Registered: 8-2002 |
The car has 11000 miles and this is its first service. It will be a 30000 mile service. | ||
| Ron (Easy_rider)
Member Username: Easy_rider Post Number: 629 Registered: 12-2002 |
Mike there a lot of threads on valve guide problems. I think the 1995 was more prone to the problem but I have read about the problem surfacing in later models also. Do a search and read those threads i think you will find it interesting and useful. | ||
| Bruce Wellington (Bws88tr)
Intermediate Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 2498 Registered: 4-2002 |
MIKE IS IT A 15K OR 30K SERVICE AND WHERE DO YOU LIVE?? HOW LONG AGO WAS THE LAST MAJOR DONE?? BY MILES OR BY DATE? | ||
| michael mcnamee (Mm20288)
New member Username: Mm20288 Post Number: 17 Registered: 8-2002 |
My 96' 355 is due for a major service. What questions do I need to be asking the service manager? What are some potential problems to looking out for? |