| Author | Message | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Junior Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 227 Registered: 3-2002 |
For what it's worth, just got my new issue of Autoweek and they drive the new 575. Acceleration tests show only a .05 sec faster 0-62 mph (100km/h) time using the paddle shift. Definitely just a preference thing. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 847 Registered: 9-2001 |
For racing the F1 shifter is the way to go. As for the future, the variable/seamless automatic will be next for race and road cars. I believe Mercedes is already using one in one of its models. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Junior Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 76 Registered: 1-2002 |
Bret, In reality the Challenge car is not so far removed from the street car-the FIA NGT car is another story, mechanically. The F1 paddle shift in the Challenge car is the same as the one found in the 360 road car, there is no stick added. The paddles are there. And, you are right, while manual cars are fun and competent on the track, in racing there was a natural evolution that carried through from manual, to sequential, and to now semi-automatic, and for very real and pragmatic reasons. Namely, to imporve consistency and to lessen drivetrain wear and tear. On the track the F1 system will show it's advantage, be it a time trial or a wheel to wheel race. Which would I choose? Probably a manual, b/c I love to heel and toe through the gears, but if you've ever seriously botched a shift on the track, you'd at least once, in passing, consider the F1 system. | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
New member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 8 Registered: 4-2002 |
BretM, You make some good points. In the end, yes, i really do not desire clutch driving. Color me a modernist. When i do drive stick, my skills are reasonable (and also have over twenty years as a drummer/percussionist so i know about hand/eye/foot coordination and speed thereof) yet the "computer geek" in me would desire something more modern. This is MY preference and far be it from me to impose my preference on someone else. Possibly the core matter in this is the "driving experience". The feel of manually shifting a car through the gears can be a revelation. No debating that fact. Of course pure performance for performance sake (F1 shifting... or buying a 512 used instead of the Maserati) may not always be the answer to the joy of driving. We could actually debate what brings us joy in driving. Is it the performance of the car, the visual styling of the car, the seat of your pants feel when driving it, and/or the sound of the car as it is driven? You have hit the proverbial nail on the head as all fine cars that are well prepared are usually track worthy. Many of us have seen older Ferrari cars on track and, we must admit, their HP and torque ratings (and suspensions) are antiquated by even the new 06 Corvette/F360/Porsche standard. Still, they can make for great fun on the track. Had a feeling there would be a good natured discussion "legacy" shifting versus new "F1-type" methods. Seems my prediction is coming true. Thanks for your insight and thoughts on this matter. Hopefully more people will chime in here with their own impressions. Enjoy the Music, Steven R. Rochlin http://www.EnjoyTheMusic.com PS: while most people enjoy the Compact Disc's "digital sound quality", i prefer good ol' fashion vinyl... and vacuum tube amplification! Yes, those old tubes that glow and make music :-) | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2546 Registered: 2-2001 |
Another point, there is no difference in 0-60 times from the factory between the two transmissions, actually the 6spd is said to have a slight edge if either is stronger. In the 1/4 mile the F1 shifter is .1 ahead of the manual, one tenth of second. How much are you gaining? You would have to run 30 laps of Spa Belgium before you saw a difference, and you would have either be or have Michael Schumacher's driving consistency. | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Junior Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 223 Registered: 3-2002 |
Steven, it's interesting that you brought up what is becoming a "generational" issue. Last week, I took my 14 year-old nephew for a ride (328). After a few miles, he pointed at the shifter and asked "Isn't that 'thing' kind of a pain?" His tone made it seem like 'that thing' was some sort of ancient device from long, long ago. Makes you wonder how far off we are from the day when the clutch and gearshift become relics of the past, seen only in museums and weekend racers. I just told him that, no, it's part of the enjoyment of driving the Ferrari. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2544 Registered: 2-2001 |
Does anyone here actually race their F1 equipped car? Not track it, really race it. You can track anything, I'm talking about fender crunching, balls to the wall racing? I'm just curious because everyone says the stop watches, numbers, blah blah blah make the F1 superior. Who races these cars? No one. Most of the cars that are actually raced are 360 Challenges which have absolutely nothing to do with the road cars. The only take off of the road car that I can think of are made into sequential gearboxes with a stick to comply with rules. If you like the F1 thing, cool, I'm happy for you, knock yourself out with it. Just stop using the damn numbers argument, it's the most ridiculous basis yet to be seen for a decision of this cost. And just to dispell the "well I track my car alot so I need the F1" Were cars not suitable for the track prior to this F1 system? Are all prehistoric manually shifted cars no longer suitable for track use? Will I simply drop dead if I am so bold to attempt to use a manual car on the track? If you like it go for it, to each his own, and no need to rationalize anything to anyone else. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 259 Registered: 12-2001 |
It would be interesting to see if there were any corelation between miles driven and the type of shifting device on the newer ferraris. I know there are some that swear by the F-1 shifter (and it certainly has its use on the track), but, having had one on a 355, i got bored with it. I wonder how many are bought by people that don't like to/aren't good at/ don't know how to shift using a conventional device. | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
New member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 7 Registered: 4-2002 |
Andrew (Mrrou), WARNING: the below may spark up an interesting debate. Agreed that some traditional sports car enthusiasts find manual shifting a must, yet we all must admit that if one is seeking the highest in shifting speed, then legacy methods have been far surpassed. In top sports mode, the Maserati can shift in 0.25 seconds. How fast can you up/down shift manually? Of course debates of electronics versus manual control has been a heated discussion at times concerning Formula One racing. What we may be seeing over the next few years (and decades to come) concerning consumer cars are the Traditionalists/Purists (manual shifting) versus the New Breed of drivers. Arguments can be made for both "camps" while the engineers and number crunchers (read: the people with the stop watch) will be giving the nod to more electronic intervention over legacy shifting methods. i am not saying either is "right" or "wrong". Driving is an interactive experience and it is the buying consumer who will vote with dollars as to their personal preference. Sales of the F1 360 were approximately 70% versus 30% of manual shifting. Maserati is said to be estimating the same type of sales figures. As for myself, my heart says manual gear selection while the "true performance" and modern part of me says the obvious choice is F1-type shifting. After all, fact is Formula One would be slower if we substituted manual shifting versus the new, electronics laden version of today. Enjoy the Music, Steven R. Rochlin http://www.EnjoyTheMusic.com | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 234 Registered: 3-2002 |
I view a sports car to have a manuel transmission..ferrari has had it for almost 50 years, i am not sure why they added the F1. Ya paddle shifting is nice if something is preventing you from shifting gears but if not, come on! your driving a sports car! my 2 cents | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 848 Registered: 6-2001 |
Yeah, GIAC makes a chip for it. Still, probably better off with the manual anyway. You wont be dissapointed with the ferrari or maserati though, it really isnt possible. | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
New member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 6 Registered: 4-2002 |
z. b. (Cheeseman) and Tim, z. b. (Cheeseman), don't know why i never thought about looking at the 360's specs and making a comparison. While the weight of the 360 is lighter, most of the specs are close to the same with the exception of torque (where the Maserati wins heartily). Hmmm... now you have me thinking about how to make the Maserati lighter. (Said in good humor) i hate you! :-) Tim, thanks for the suggestion, yet as i have said before the P-car is not for me. Fully agree the stock tiptronic is horrible and never knew there was a chip tweak. Thanks for the information. ALL help is ALWAYS appreciated. Enjoy the Music, Steven R. Rochlin http://www.EnjoyTheMusic.com | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 844 Registered: 6-2001 |
if you get a 996tt get a real transmission, not the tiptronic crap. I guess im just biased against them becausew my car has tiptronic and i hate it. Maybe i'll change my mind when i get the tip chip which makes it shift in .5 seconds as opposesd to like 2. Even though they are really really fast even with the auto, faster than almost any other car. The only reason to get that is if u cant drive stick for some reason, like a bad ankle or if you really dont enjoy shifting. Whenever i see one with an auto i just shake my head and walk away. | ||
| z. b. (Cheeseman)
New member Username: Cheeseman Post Number: 12 Registered: 4-2002 |
the maserati is all ferrari technology at two thirds the price. while driving in "normal" mode the shifts are butter smooth, the suspension is not harsh but still tight, in "auto" shifts are even more smooth and you can forget about shifting altogether. but hit that sport button and the whole car changes. the shocks go full stiff and the gearchanges will snap your neck at full throttle, getting rubber in 2nd and 3rd and are as quick as a 360 gearbox. the car also has more tourqe than a 360 and if we were to see this engine in a 360 it would make 450hp. sound is great, deeper and not as raspy as ferrari. no comparison between porsche 911 (except maybe the turbo), jag, or mercedes 500sl the maserati will smoke them all | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
New member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 43 Registered: 3-2002 |
I know somebody with one. Took me for a ride in it too. VERY nice.  I like it. | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
New member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2002 |
wm hart, >>>....Why not, just out of curiosity, a P -turbo. Ubiquitous, low key, faster than ����, and (i guess) tiptronic thang, too?<<< Never really been a fan of the P-car feel/driving experience. Yes, i admit they are excellent, though not to my liking. The same can be said about my friend's NSX. Maybe the desire for more of a car with personality on my part? Still, a great suggestion and thanks for the input. All suggestions are appreciated. Enjoy the Music, Steven R. Rochlin http://www.EnjoyTheMusic.com | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Junior Member Username: Whart Post Number: 247 Registered: 12-2001 |
Guy in my town has been having fun with his Maserati spyder, even though he has a ton of serious ferraris. Frankly, i like the look of the coupe better than the spyder, but that's true of most cars. You may be the perfect customer for one of these; i am not enamoured of the f1 thing, but let's not debate that, you like it, so be it. Why not, just out of curiousity, a P -turbo. Ubiquitous, low key, faster than ••••, and (i guess) tiptronic thang, too? | ||
| martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
Member Username: Mw360 Post Number: 382 Registered: 5-2001 |
The masserati coupe and spyder are much more impressive in the flesh than pictures.Haven't driven one (yet mainly because I'm afraid I'll fall in lust) The coupe was in taupe and gorgeous! | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
New member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2002 |
Jack, Yes, the Maserati can be set to a "softened down sports car" feel, yet can also be set for a very sports car feel as well. It will never feel like the Lexus SC (thank G-d)! The Skyhook system allows for various settings while the F1 shifting system also provides for various driving styles. Never tried the car in all-out sports car mode, though will probably do so when the Coupe test drive commences. It is this flexibility that i find desirable. Makes for a good daily driver... and late night drives on the very twisty and hilly bits here in the mountains. My local roads have seduced more than a few driving enthusiasts :-) My Dr. friend in Florida is my next target as we need a good surgical pediatric doctor in this small New England town. Enjoy the Music, Steven R. Rochlin http://www.EnjoyTheMusic.com | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
New member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2002 |
First, thanks everyone for the comments so far (please keep them coming!). One of my fears was that a flame war (or considering me a troll) would be started. Instead there is finding what is so enjoyable about this forum. Great advice so far. Would highly appreciate anyone who has taken the test drive (or owns one) and can make comparisons accordingly. While i'd like a 512, the low clearance and high $$$ service keeps me away. Love the look and reliability of the 328, yet desire more modern performance. Maybe we are seeing not just more HP and torque in smaller packaging, but how F1 technology and electronic advances have brought about more overall performance (if at the expense of "needing" a fully talented driver). This is not to say one does not need talent to drive, far from it! Just that better ASR and other systems make driving at the edge a bit easier as it were. Again, please keep the comments coming as if i write the check, it may be in three days! G-d help me as the insanity is kicking in! :-) Again, PLEASE post from those who have driven various vehicles as comparisons are appreciated. Enjoy the Music, Steven R. Rochlin http://www.EnjoyTheMusic.com | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Junior Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 208 Registered: 3-2002 |
Haven't heard myself, but the Maserati is supposed to sound really sweet. They also consider its ride to be a softened down sports car. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2526 Registered: 2-2001 |
The mechanics at the dealerships seem to really respect the Maseratis. I value their opinions as highly as anyone's. They're not trying to sell me on it and I hang out with them often enough so they always give me the straight and narrow with what they see in the cars. The engine is supposed to be a hell of a lot of fun in particular. Based on them loving it so much I wouldn't be surprised at all now to see something like it in a 360 like car in the future. I kind of like the high revving smaller engines they have now though to be honest in those cars. | ||
| David Bob� Jr. (Supraoz)
Junior Member Username: Supraoz Post Number: 101 Registered: 9-2001 |
The new Maserati is great, go for it! | ||
| Chris Richardson (Boozy)
Junior Member Username: Boozy Post Number: 139 Registered: 11-2001 |
I have driven the new Maserati Spider and the things I didn't like about it seem to be the exact qualities you are looking for. If you've always wanted a Ferrari but don't like the attention then you've picked the perfect car. It is built exceptionally well and very luxurious. The F1 on it is very good. It seems like you've already made up your mind, but I think you made the right choice. Get the Maserati. | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
Junior Member Username: Kennyh Post Number: 240 Registered: 8-2001 |
I was taken out by Bailey Vanneck over at Miller Motorcars in Greenwhich, Connecticut a couple weeks ago in the F1 convertible- what a car.. I didn't expect it to be too much but boy was I surprised. The car has a great combination of power and finesse that you won't find for cars similarly priced (Porsche 996, Mercedes SL and such). I highly recommend you give a call over to Bailey- (203) 629-3890. | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
New member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2002 |
Hi Everyone, Been a lurker for a long, long time. Now BEFORE we have any flame wars please allow me to explain my possible decision. 1) Like the F1 paddles. Fact is they shift faster than manual clutch. 2) Would like to drive the car in the rain, snow and whenever i want. Comfortable in traffic and also for the twisty mountain roads here in New Hampshire (a drivers dream :-) ). 3) Do not care for the "look at me" factor/appearance that draws the wrong people (police, vandals, etc). This is why my color preference is black. Seems to hide speed well visually. So after a test drive of the new Maserati Spyder, i am looking to buy the Coupe (test drive shortly). The looks are attractive and the Spyder, during a test drive recently, did remarkably well on "chewed up and spit out" roads as well as the hiway. Sure the 328/348/TR/512 are nice and all, but i would like some good HP and torque for these mountain roads. Of course the Skyhook/ASR system and refined F1 tranny is attractive. My friend who owned a 360F1 and now has the Maserati claims the Maserati system is much more sorted out (as one would expect from two more year's time of development). Have i missed anything? Am i off track (pun intended)? Have loved and dreamed of having a Ferrari for.... well, forever, though the new Maserati seems to be an all around winner for my needs. Just want to make sure i have the bases covered. BTW, seems that maintenance will be "reasonable" too. Forza Ferrari! Enjoy the Music, Steven R. Rochlin http://www.EnjoyTheMusic.com |