| Author | Message | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Junior Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 65 Registered: 5-2002 |
I agree Steve, it just muddies the water a little more. I tried to weld a 16" 308QV wheel. It didn't want any thing to do with Aluminum fill rod so I assumed it was Mg and discarded it. It could have been a contamination problem, but it didn't seem like it. I wish I had done the density test now. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 791 Registered: 1-2001 |
I'm not sure that Speedline's comments indicate all F wheels are a Magnesium alloy. I'm 99.999% sure my stock (not reproduction) ex-308QV 16" wheels were/are a Magnesium alloy, but 90% sure my TR wheels are an Aluminum alloy. Still interested in what hard evidence people can share... | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Junior Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 64 Registered: 5-2002 |
I never would have guessed. This is what I found on tirerack�s page: �Speedline�s cast magnesium wheels, utilize a new and exclusive casting process called H.T.C. (High Temperature Casting). Through an alloy heating process, the wheels are lighter and their characteristics and level of performance are much like forged magnesium wheels�without the expense. Speedline developed their magnesium street wheels to meet the demands of the Original Equipment market and have supplied Ferrari, Lamborghini and General Motors (Corvette C5) with magnesium street wheels. In fact, they are the only wheel manufacturer supplying magnesium wheels to the O.E. market. Speedline offers a 3-year finish warranty on their one-piece magnesium street wheels.� | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 512 Registered: 7-2001 |
I just got off the phone with the shop, and the wheel is fixed. It is currently being repainted. As such, I guess the answer to my question is, the wheel is aluminum. This shop is not capable of fixing magnesium wheels. | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Junior Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 62 Registered: 5-2002 |
Porsche 2.4/2.7 engines are Mg(70-75?). VW used Mg for the engine/trans cases on all the bugs (36-76?). I�ve never seem one burned in a car fire. However from my youth I can tell you that if you throw a VW engine in a large bon fire, you'll have daylight for several hours. Jim - let us know what the welder tells you, then we'll know. | ||
| Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
Member Username: Craigfl Post Number: 391 Registered: 1-2001 |
I believe they are made of magnesium too but they are hardly "flammable". It would take a long and very hot fire to light up mag wheels as thick as they are. | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 509 Registered: 7-2001 |
I have to admit I'm surprised, I can't believe nobody here knows this for sure. I guess I'll know tomorrow when I pick it up. If it's fixed, it's aluminum. If the shop has burned to the ground, it's magnesium. | ||
| martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
Member Username: Mw360 Post Number: 460 Registered: 5-2001 |
The 360 manual states the wheels are "alloy" but doesn't say what alloy.I was told by a wheel guy that they are mag alloy. I seem to remember in my 355 manual it stating the wheels were magnesium with no mention of alloy.Whay say you 355 owners? | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
New member Username: Arlie Post Number: 25 Registered: 5-2002 |
Sorry folks, I am just having a hard time believing that these Ferrari wheels are magnesium. What lawsuit fearing company would put 5 giant hunks of flammable magnesium on a vehicle that could very easily end up in a fiery wreck? Of course gasoline itself is flammable, but that's a necessary evil in any automobile. But mag wheels that would ignite and burn at 5000 degrees? My jury is still out. Surely someone out there has a reference manual to confirm or deny this magnesium wheel tale. Perhaps they are a semi-magnesium alloy that is not as flammable as essentially pure magnesium. I want more proof. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 475 Registered: 6-2001 |
Steve: Was told that by my mechanic, relative to my 355 and 348. Also, when you pick them up, you can tell by their weight. Art | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Junior Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 60 Registered: 5-2002 |
Jim, you don�t a measuring cup in the kitchen? Shame on you. Seriously, if you do find that they are Mg, and I think you will, they can be welded like Art said. But, you will also have to get them re-heat treated and should also get them x-rayed. Mg will lose about 2/3 of it strength if you weld and don�t do the heat treatment and is subject to almost every kind of cracking in the metallurgy book. A shop that does aircraft stuff would probably know the correct procedures, the local welding shop probably doesn�t. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 786 Registered: 1-2001 |
Art C. -- Can I ask what reference shows that 348/355/360 wheels are a Magnesium alloy (not an Aluminum alloy, with say 0.5%~1% Mg, like the die-casting alloy Jorma mentioned)? My understanding is that as designers went to the large wheel offsets found on these later models (and the tire sidewalls got ridiculously short) that they also went to an Aluminum alloy for strength reasons. I'm not saying that I know that they're not Magnesium, but the spokes on a 360 wheels just look too delicate for me not to ask. | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 508 Registered: 7-2001 |
Thanks for the tip Mark. Now all I have to do is the get the tire removed, find a big-ass sink, and go buy a measuring cup. :-) There has to be a better way. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 850 Registered: 9-2001 |
I already had mine in the water to test it like mark said  | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 473 Registered: 6-2001 |
The 348, 355 and 360 wheels are mag. I suspect that the 328 are also. They CAN be welded and fixed. You just need to find someone who can weld Magnesium. I would look to find someone who can weld mag in your area. The guy I used for this type of welding (on the airplane) is Ken Augustine, 415-472-4952, but he is in California, and it would probably cost you more to ship it and get it repaired than a new wheel will cost. Art | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Junior Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 58 Registered: 5-2002 |
Ok, here�s what you do. Mg has a much lower density than Al. Take a wheel and remove the valve stem and any weights then weight it. A postal scale would be best, but a bathroom scale might be ok. Then put the wheel in a sink or metal water tub, a bath tub would really be too big. Fill the sink with water until the wheel is under water, extra is ok. Mark the water level. Remove the wheel and let it drip off so most of the water stays in the sink. Now use a measuring cup to measure the water it takes to refill the sink to the line. That gives you the volume of the wheel. Density is weight/volume. The density of Al is 2.70 g/cm3 or 0.0975 lb/in3 or 0.176 lb/oz(liquid). The density of Mg is 1.78 g/cm3 or 0.0643 lb/in3 or 0.116 lb/oz (liquid). Your measuring cup is probably marked in oz and/or ml (=cm3), so you should have all the information you need to solve this mystery. Good luck. | ||
| Dave Penhale (Dapper)
Junior Member Username: Dapper Post Number: 67 Registered: 4-2002 |
I'd be suprised if they were Mg | ||
| Jorma Johansson (Jjfinland)
Junior Member Username: Jjfinland Post Number: 169 Registered: 3-2001 |
Speedline makes wheels for F40 of AlSi7Mg, heat treatment T6. F40 owners, look inside your wheels. If aluminium is good enough for F40, I belive it is good for 328. Magnesium is dangerous only in sheetmetal, there should be a big fire to burn wheels. The international racing rules do not alloud use of magnesium sheetmetal thinner than 3 mm. | ||
| Jim Veres (Jimveres)
New member Username: Jimveres Post Number: 3 Registered: 3-2002 |
I was told by a dealer that they are magnesium. | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Junior Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 57 Registered: 5-2002 |
I'm pretty sure they're magnesium. Top end wheels usually are. | ||
| bruno bandaras (Originalsinner)
Junior Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 116 Registered: 5-2002 |
I know when you sandblast a magnesium wheel it sparks while you are doing it. my 2 cents added. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
New member Username: Arlie Post Number: 22 Registered: 5-2002 |
Doubtful that the wheels would be magnesium. "Mag" wheels were nearly always made of aluminum even back in the sixties. Real magnesium wheels were pretty much only for racing purposes do to their light weight and expense. Magnesium is a nasty metal. When it ignites, it burns at around 5000 degrees and water won't put it out. I believe the Corvette SS racer used a body made out of magnesium. I have read that this was a very dangerous idea for a race car due to a fatal crash that occured at the 1955 Lemans race in which a driver and numerous spectators were killed. Imagine the further carnage that would have occured if a racer with a magnesium body burning at 5000 degrees would have exploded into the crowd! | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 412 Registered: 3-2002 |
Jim, does it say in the manual? My guess is aluminum. | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 504 Registered: 7-2001 |
I just took my wheel in to be repaired from its introduction to a curb. The guy asked me if the wheel was aluminum or magnesium and I realized I had no idea. I guessed it was aluminum, since he said he couldn't fix it if it was magnesium. He also has fixed many Ferrari wheels in the past and came recommended by the dealer. Does anybody know for sure? |