| Author |
Message |
TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 1172
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 6:45 am: | |
Peter
While some sodium values do have issues I don't believe it is prevalent as you might think. Most of the mechanics I have spoke too are not overly concerned with it |
Peter B. (Gts308qv)
Junior Member
Username: Gts308qv
Post Number: 211
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 6:44 pm: | |
JSelevan ! Ferrari changed to stainless valves about 1982-3. I am not sure which BB models made the change over and when. There is nothing wrong with the early light weight sodium filled valves as long as the car is driven all the time. If a BB sits around without being driven, the valves will develop corrosion on the shaft and with time eat through the stem. The valves are not a mileage issue but an age problem with undriven garage queens. A lot of these cars are 25 years old and over and Ferrari expects by this time the engines would have done 150-200k miles and have an engine rebuild, not just sit idle. This problem also plagues the Dino and early 308 cars. Anyone who has more expert information on this issue, please correct me or provide more detail! |
terrence edwards (4re4t)
New member
Username: 4re4t
Post Number: 7
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 1:54 pm: | |
Steve M.--
If I havent gotten one by then, I will certainly give you a call. Checked out your profile...beautiful car.
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F-J'87EuroTR (Ferrarijoe)
Junior Member
Username: Ferrarijoe
Post Number: 250
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 11:08 am: | |
Ken,
Even though I have had my share of minor maintenance issues with my TR in the past 4 years, I enjoy this car so much that I can say it is hands-down the most thrilling car I have ever owned (35).
If you are the type that doesn't mind a little elbow grease, then these cars are reasonably fun and inexpensive to work on. And with F-Chat, you have almost an unlimited resource for any questions and most subjects available to you.
Since owning it I have only had two major maintenance projects to accomplish. I recently rebuilt the fuel distributors for a little over $1,000 (I did both even though only one needed it) and replaced the clutch for $700. And that is in 19K miles of driving/ownership.
It has around 42K miles and has so much power and acceleration it's a thrill to drive every time I get in it. The style IMO is timeless and most importantly, functional.
I suggest you try both if you haven't already. After driving either one, you'll know which one fits you best.
Good luck, Joe
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Henryk (Henryk)
Junior Member
Username: Henryk
Post Number: 128
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 10:41 am: | |
Ken:
I have both: an 83BBi and an 88TR. The TR is wild looking, whereas the BBi is more classic. |
Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member
Username: Tenney
Post Number: 200
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 10:12 am: | |
I'd prefer a Boxer. Though wouldn't be surprised to see TR's increase in popularity in the coming years. Like a mid-late 50's Caddy, Bel Air or big-finned Fury, the TR makes a similarly bold styling statement that thoroughly links it to the 80's. Should (when?) this era gain a similar resurgence nostalgia-wise, the TR's may be dragged along with it. |
James Selevan (Jselevan)
Junior Member
Username: Jselevan
Post Number: 67
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 9:58 am: | |
Peter - concerning your comment "A BB should also have the sodium filled valves replaced asap(if not already done)."
Is this an issue with all BBs, early models, or late models? What was the nature of the problem?
Thanks.
Jim Selevan |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 889
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 9:56 am: | |
Ken -- IMO you need 4 catagories for comparison, not 2:
512BB
512BBi
TR single-lug
TR 5-lug
terrence -- It's nice to hear some kind words about TRs -- I can confirm there are some positive TR characteristics that make the inevitable problems somewhat more acceptable ;). Give me a shout in ~18 months -- if I can stay on plan, I'll be selling my '91 with ~30K miles (driven ~28K miles over the last 6 years), but with the price discounted accordingly ($6~7K?) for the new Owner to arrange the servicing/refreshment for its mid-life interval. |
TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 1171
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 7:09 am: | |
if you are a big 308 fan then the boxer is probably for you - since the styling is similar. The later model year TR's are beasts (512s and M) but you rarely get these for under 90k and in the case of Ms well into 100s. I think you limit of 60 k might be a little low because both TRs and Boxers under this will need some work which will push you toward you 60k amount. I have been looking at boxers and am generally est about 10k for complete up to date service (3-4k for 30k) plus 5-6 in other misc items i.e tires 1k, hoses and various other work - jus to be safe |
terrence edwards (4re4t)
New member
Username: 4re4t
Post Number: 4
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 6:23 am: | |
I drive an 87 328 and Im also wanting to move up to a bigger car. Despite Don Johnson's taste in clothes ten years ago, from the TRs Ive seen stomping around Dallas, I simply cant deny that they are STILL bad to the bone. What else could you get for the price that could compete?? The only downside that I see is the cost of servicing which I wish I could get a current owner to truthfully describe. Ideally Id like a 35-40k mile car with the 30k service done. A well driven Ferrari is MUCH more reliable. My 328 has 71k miles and has been embarrasingly more reliable than my wife's ML320. |
david a haney (David512bb)
New member
Username: David512bb
Post Number: 8
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 6:04 am: | |
The TR motor is removed from the bottom, and the Boxer motor comes out the top. The body is steel, the rocker panels are steel, the door frames are steel and the door skins are alloy on the Boxer, as are both bonnets, and, the front and rear valences are fiberglass, along with various interior panels, and some outer wheel well fairings. Rust can be a problem and the best place to check for it is the bottom edge of the doors, then under the polished stainless steel kick plates. I will be glad to furnish you with photo's of my BB restoration. I think the BB is the best buy of any 12 cylinder carbureted Ferrari. |
Peter B. (Gts308qv)
Junior Member
Username: Gts308qv
Post Number: 209
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 03, 2002 - 9:59 pm: | |
Regardless of what some "shortcut" mechanics say. To do a correct major on a BB does requires the engine out. With the engine out there are a lot of extra items that can be checked and renewed which would be otherwise missed. A BB should also have the sodium filled valves replaced asap(if not already done).My preference is a BB, a timeless true Ferrari shape and supercar of it's day. Aircon can be updated without too much drama if it becomes an issue. BB's will hold their value well and it is also a rarer Ferrari in the USA.
As far as the TR is concerned; Don Johnson drove one - in a peach jacket and white shoes. That about sums up the car in it's dated, flamboyant, eighties style. Tr's are still on a downward trend and prices have not bottomed out yet. If you must get a TR, the only one is the 512M which has the best of the mid engines flat-12s, incredible sound, but no-where as pretty as a BB.
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Ken Ross (Kdross)
Junior Member
Username: Kdross
Post Number: 101
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, August 03, 2002 - 9:11 pm: | |
For the past several months I have been debating whether or not I should sell my 308 QV and purchase a 12 cylinder Ferrari. While I love my 308 QV and believe that it is one of the best looking Ferrari's ever, the lack of power has been a big disappoint for me.
With that said, I have decided to get either a Testarossa or a 512 BB Boxer. Both cars are within my self imposed limit of a $60K budget, and it appears that the prices for both cars have bottomed out. My problem is that my brain says to get the TR, but my heart says to get the 512 Boxer. Below are several pro�s and con�s of each car, and I would appreciate any input from owners of both cars, especially as to the cost of service. I keep getting mixed input as to which car is cheaper to maintain. Some people tell me that the Boxer will cost a small fortune to maintain, while others say that the TR is by far much more expensive to maintain. For example, several people have claimed that a Boxer will cost $2,500 for a major service, while others claim that the number is closer to $10K which is why they purchased a TR instead because the TR maintenance was cheaper. Which one is it? Also, several people have said that the Boxer requires an engine out major, while others (my mechanic included) have said that the engine does not have to be removed for the major. Once again, which one is correct?
TR
Pros: - newer
- better A/C with is a big plus (my wife cannot take the heat very well)
- a more comfortable GT cruiser. This in itself may be a big selling feature to my wife who hates sports cars and likes a nice comfortable ride (she is a BMW person)
Cons: engine requires to be removed for a major
Boxer
Pros: - much better and a more traditional styling than the TR IMHO
- fiberglass lower panels so rust is not an issue
- easier to work on and does not require an engine out major.
Cons: - a sweatbox with lots of interior heat
- never officially imported and requires DOT certification.
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