| Author | Message | ||
| F-J'87EuroTR (Ferrarijoe)
Member Username: Ferrarijoe Post Number: 319 Registered: 5-2001 |
ALL RIGHT! Way to do Jeff, your diligence paid off. Joe | ||
| Jeff Green (Carguy)
Member Username: Carguy Post Number: 278 Registered: 10-2002 |
PROBLEM FOUND...PROBLEM FOUND..!!!!!!! There is JOY in my world at this moment as I've found the problem! One of the wires going to the fuse location for the instruments/park lights had a cut in it, and was grounding out. The wire had been spliced into with one of those "quick-splice" connectors at some point as the metal knife-like piece was still in it!!!! But the fuse panel had to be removed or it would have been impossible to see. Steve , Joe , and Arnoldo....I can't Thank You guys enough for your support. As I was pulling the connectors and looking where Steve suggested I just happen to see something gleaming in the light. I pulled the wires and there is was, sticking out like a harpoon! I pulled it out and heat-shrinked the spot. Put in a new fuse and Voila! All the lights are on! I immediately let out a loud cry "Yipeeeeeeee!" If there is ever anything I can do for you fellas please let me know. I realize that may not be much, but if I can help I will. | ||
| Jeff Green (Carguy)
Member Username: Carguy Post Number: 277 Registered: 10-2002 |
Guys...I removed the fuse panel screws to have a look behind it...and here is what I found so far. I'm sitting in the trunk facing the passenger compartment, second in from the driver's side there is a "cross-shaped" connector with nothing attached. It looks like some sorta relay belongs there. It has the following wires: 2-Gray with Yellow stripes 2-Green and Yellow 2-Red 2-Dark Green with White stripes 2-Light Green Are these for the stereo system? My car had a bigtime aftermarket job at one time. I'll go back out and continue some more and check back later. Thanks. | ||
| Jeff Green (Carguy)
Member Username: Carguy Post Number: 276 Registered: 10-2002 |
Again I am astounded at the value and wealth of information here...you guys are becoming the family I never had. I will assemble everything starting in a few minutes and get back with you. It will take me most if not all night, I'm not short-cutting anything or moving on to the next step until I KNOW things are secure. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 1785 Registered: 1-2001 |
Joe -- Confirmed your test, and it makes sense schematic-wise -- with fuse 13 missing or blown and the lights "on" (i.e., relay "O" closed), the square green P lamp gets +12V on one side and (a near) ground on the other. Jeff -- When you get it all back together, the food-chain you'll probably need to check out with the Stalk "on" is: power -to- relay "O" (...006) pin 30 -to- relay "O" pin 87 -to- fuse 13 -to- connector "x" 4th position from the left (2 small white wires) -- one white wire goes to the LH ashtray lamp and the dash illumination rheostat to run the dash lights; the second white wire goes to the RH ashtray lamp (so I'm fairly sure you'll find that the ashtray lamps aren't working either, but please let me know).  | ||
| F-J'87EuroTR (Ferrarijoe)
Member Username: Ferrarijoe Post Number: 318 Registered: 5-2001 |
Steve, No goof, I just double posted by accident and edited out the original text and wrote I goofed. Sorry for the confusion. I won�t do that again. But yes, the procedure will work as I stated. Joe | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 488 Registered: 2-2001 |
I forgot a few details. You have to modify the Quick Disconnect to make it as flat as possible around the Fusebox pin. In addition, you have to remove the plastic cover around the end of the Quick Disconnect (where the wire gets crimped) to reshape as shown in the diagram. It is very important to shape the quick disconnect as close as possible to the Fusebox pin because otherwise your connector will have trouble going in. A little bit of work, but the results are well worth it. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 1780 Registered: 1-2001 |
Joe -- What do you mean "I goofed" - is there something wrong in your previous post? (I was going to try it and see if the schematic would explain it.) | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 487 Registered: 2-2001 |
Jeff, the details of what I did are on the following diagram:  | ||
| F-J'87EuroTR (Ferrarijoe)
Member Username: Ferrarijoe Post Number: 317 Registered: 5-2001 |
I goofed! | ||
| F-J'87EuroTR (Ferrarijoe)
Member Username: Ferrarijoe Post Number: 316 Registered: 5-2001 |
Jeff and Steve, The 7.5 amp fuse Arnaldo is talking about is the same one I referred to below. With your parking lights on and the ignition key in the run position, if you pull or blow that fuse, (12th from right as you look at the fuse panel) the green "P" light on the left side of the instrument panel will light up. I say try all the recommendations here and let us know what happens. Joe | ||
| Jeff Green (Carguy)
Member Username: Carguy Post Number: 274 Registered: 10-2002 |
Thanks Guys for all the advice and help. It just seems to get deeper and deeper. Joe-I did what you suggested with the license plate lights, no change. I also made sure the wires were not pinched anywhere, all is fine. Steve-I did not think to check which bulbs are "on" between Park modes. That is interesting, and I will verify what is EXACTLY on and what is not. There currently is not an aftermarket alarm system, but I believe there was one in the past. Arnoldo-I will also look into what you did. If I may ask, what did you use on the prongs to make them fatter? Thin steel sheet cut to a specific shape and wrapped around the prongs? Guys I really appreciate your input, it's nice to know I'm not totally alone in this. This afternoon I ripped out the console and will very carefully route all wires and secure connections. The pass. side power window switch connector was about to fall off! I also have removed the dash instrument cluster and everything appears to be secure. The car sure is a mess at the moment, I kinda feel like I'll never be done working on it. I'm taking a badly needed sanity break right now, as I can feel my anger slowly boiling up inside. For the money these cars were new things could have been assembled with more thought in my opinion. I will do more tomorrow, for now I'm finished working on that....(insert explecatives here)...of a car. I was really hoping for an obvious problem, but now I'm entering the dreaded world of auto-electrical systems-my absolute worst nightmare. I can handle anything mechanical, but electrical stuff is like bubonic plague! | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 486 Registered: 2-2001 |
I had a similar problem with my TR last year. The dash lights will go out and the "P" light will light up. I would loose the headlights, but not the fog lights, etc. It started blowing a 7.5A fuse, wipers would not work, horn will not sound, and many other issues. It was intermittent, and I couldn't figure anything out from the schematics. Then, I realized that if I toggled the three vertical fusebox connectors (passenger side) a lot of the issues will go away. The funny thing was that all connectors where clean, didn't show burn marks, or other visible problem. After trying many things, I finally hit the nail on the head. The legs of the connectors although making a connection with the fusebox prone, were not actually conducting electricity at 100%. Temperature and other factors seem to open up the connections. The solution, I made all the fusebox prones fatter and longer by wrapping them up with home made prone extension. The best part is that everything works again, no issues since the fix, and it only cost a few dollars to take care of it. The TR has many electrical issues arising from aging connectors at the fusebox. Some people unnecesarily replace the whole unit, the connectors, or both, to solve these issues. Nevertheless, I believe that by creating a prone extension you can take care of most of this issues easily and cheaply. A big plus for this approach is that you can connect and disconnect the connectors without any complications (some people bypass a lot of the connections by welding wires between trouble points on the fusebox and corresponding connector wire, but that is a real pain to deal with. Believe me, I did it for a couple of connections and it is hard to go back and check things once done). Anyway, You might want to check your connections at the fusebox. Have somebody move your connectors while the lights are on, to see if your problem comes and goes. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 1779 Registered: 1-2001 |
Jeff -- You definitely have a problem if the green square "P" light in the left side of the dash comes on with the Stalk (I can't even figure out how this would be possible from the schematic -- do you have an alarm system wired into the outside lights?). On my TR, the following applies: "P" button off (which is the down position), Stalk off = "P" lamp off, and green Tach lamp (the green indicator at the bottom of the tach) off "P" button on, Stalk off = "P" lamp on, Tach lamp off "P" button off, Stalk on = "P" lamp off, Tach lamp on "P" button on, Stalk on = "P" lamp off, Tach lamp on Although you say the outside parking lights are "working", I checked my TR and found the following: With the "P" button "on" and Stalk "off" = front - only center of three amber lights on rear - only outermost red light on sidemarkers - off With the "P" button "off" and Stalk "on" = front - inboard and center of three amber lights on rear - 2 outermost red lights on sidemarkers - on Do your outside lamps have the same behavior or not? | ||
| F-J'87EuroTR (Ferrarijoe)
Member Username: Ferrarijoe Post Number: 315 Registered: 5-2001 |
Jeff, When you have your parking lights on, are your license plate lights also on? If not, unscrew them and pull them out. Check the fuse again, if blown replace it but leave the license plate lights hanging and see if the instrument lights come on. If they do, leave the parking lights on for a while to see if the fuse blows again. If not, make sure you reinstall the license plate lights with the light stalk in the off position and be careful not to have any of the license plate light assembly "pinched" when inserting them back in. It is just an idea but shouldn't take long to check out. I had the exact same problem with my instrument lights a couple of years ago and it turned out to be shorting license plate lights. Joe | ||
| Jeff Green (Carguy)
Member Username: Carguy Post Number: 272 Registered: 10-2002 |
Steve...only the square dash indicator lights up when the park lights are on, either way I turn on the parking lights, using the stalk or the console button. My console button light-socket wouldn't stay in the button so I did not put a bulb in it. I will check on the ashtray lights. Why do they two ways to activate the parking lights? Is it a European thing? Anyway, I'll do some more checking and post my findings. Joe...the last five digits are "70069" for my car, built in March of '87. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 1777 Registered: 1-2001 |
Jeff -- 2 questions: 1. Do your ashtray lights come on when you rotate the stalk to the parking light position? 2. In your description is the first "green park light indicator" the small round one in the bottom of the tach, and the second "green indicator light" the square one on the left side of the dash? | ||
| F-J'87EuroTR (Ferrarijoe)
Member Username: Ferrarijoe Post Number: 314 Registered: 5-2001 |
Jeff, Yeah, the dash is relatively easy to remove. You might have a loose ground on one of the dash light connectors, which will break the series circuit and kill the lights. Judging by your side view mirror placement, you have a mid year 1987. Later in 1987 they switched to the 5-lug wheels so I would guess you car was built in the summer of 1987? What are the last 5 digits of the VIN? You should also see a build date stamped into the data plate on the drivers rearward door jam. Mine is 66755 and has a build date of 09/86 and is also a 1987-year model car. Let us know what you find, Joe | ||
| Jeff Green (Carguy)
Member Username: Carguy Post Number: 271 Registered: 10-2002 |
Thanks Joe, my rheostat is up in the speedometer/tach area. Yes, I tried adjusting it with no success. I'm betting I'm gonna have to yank out the console to find the problem. It's not really all that hard, but I've worked on my TR so much this past winter that I'm about out of sanity. Pull the seats, then the floor trim pieces, then the seat belts, it's just a hassle. But if I wanna drive at night I'd better do it. Something interesting, my console has a clock at the top, then a temp. gage and a gas gage in it. Could my console be from a different year TR? My car is an '87? | ||
| F-J'87EuroTR (Ferrarijoe)
Member Username: Ferrarijoe Post Number: 312 Registered: 5-2001 |
Jeff, Have you tried the dash light reostat knob? It is above your tripometer reset knob. See photo. Turn on your lights and turn it counter clockwise for brighter and clockwise for dimmer. Hope this helps, Joe  | ||
| Jeff Green (Carguy)
Member Username: Carguy Post Number: 270 Registered: 10-2002 |
Boy..this is my day for posts I guess as this is the third problem I've had today! My TR's dash lights are not working, but they did last fall. Here is what happens: I turn on the park lights by rotating the stalk, all the outside lights come on like they are supposed to. But no dash lights, only the green park light indicator. Now when I turn on the parking lights using the button on the center console, the proper lights come on and the green indicator light in the dash comes on just like it's supposed to. Actually everything electrically seems to work fine. I've checked all the fuses and connections in the fust panel and they looked very good. Just for the heck of it I put in new fuses just in case the old ones were not visibly bad. Some may recall that I had to rewire my center console because a prior owner butchered the wire harness. I was very careful to label everything. I fixed all the splices by soldering the insulating. No shortcuts, very painstaking work. Could I have routed a wire or wires to where they have become pinched/chaffed in the console that would do this? |