| Author | Message | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member Username: Fred Post Number: 620 Registered: 2-2001 |
I like a flying start but I also like the standing starts so I am glad they do it that way. That way I get both worlds. | ||
| Erich Walz (Deleteall)
Junior Member Username: Deleteall Post Number: 130 Registered: 12-2001 |
Don't you wish the IRL or CART had F-1 style starts? | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2165 Registered: 12-2000 |
See today's news that Andretti has bought controlling interest in Team Green and they're taking him and 2 other CART drivers to IRL. Wow, more fuel for the fire, or is the fire already out? | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1969 Registered: 2-2001 |
I guess I go against the grain again. I was a Nascar fan long before it became fashionable. I remember Wendell Scott climbing out of his 62 Chevy to help change his tires on a pit stop. I remember Junior Johnson blowing a rear tire in his 63 Chevy with 3 laps to go at Charlotte and loosing the race to Fred Lorenzen. I was there when the first IRL car hit the track at the Walt Disney track, "The Mickyard". I have followed Formula 1 since Nigel Mansell's beginning. I have followed Drag racing from the days of Hayden Proffit and Bill Thomas and the Sox Brothers. Does anyone remember Gary Nixon and his Motorcycle racing wins? I do. I love almost all forms of racing. | ||
| Chuck Babel (Chuck_98_rt10)
Junior Member Username: Chuck_98_rt10 Post Number: 60 Registered: 5-2002 |
They are opening the 03 season in St Pete FL in Feb. I hope the Ferrari club reserves a section for everybody to see their cars. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1325 Registered: 9-2001 |
is CART going to survive - It looks like Tony George has finally won the battle as just about everyone is now going to ILR. Back in 1996 I thought George was arrogant and crazy. I never thought it would happen but the indy race really does have some pull. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2144 Registered: 12-2000 |
I agree with Jon's statements. As a racer, any racing is better than no racing. My top 10 list of most fun to watch racing... 1) Club Racing (SCCA, Ferrari Challenge, PCA) - Nothing more fun than watching the broad range of talent and equipment in amatuer racing. 2) Speed World Challenge Touring - Have you watched this recently, one of the only pro road racing series right now that has to turn away drivers and have qualifying to qualify. Less than a second seperating first through 30th position in cars from BMW, Acura, Lexus, Mazda, and Honda. Nose to tail entire race and multiple bumps and lead changes each and every lap. 3) SCCA Trans Am - High HP heavy cars trying to baby it around a race course. Most of these drivers are self funded businessmen that do this as a hobby. They can afford to bump a little. A race earlier this year had 3 cars exchange the lead 4-6 times in the last lap! 4) Formula 1 - Not much passing and racing, but still have to put high on list because it is Ferrari and the technology is the highest of any motorsports and maybe of any other industry too. 5) Le Mans 24 hours - The ultimate of road racing. Machinery and man lasting 24 hours running laps at 99.9%. When Speed TV showed all 24 hours, I watched about 18 of it. 6) American Le Mans Series or Grand Am - Highest tech road racing in America right now. Competition is ok and there are finally Ferraris competing again, but field turnouts are kinda low. 7) IRL - just read this thread. 8) Local Dirt Track - Same appeal as watching amateur road racers but now on dirt circle tracks. It's culture exposure too. 9) Rally racing - I think the Rally racers have more talent than any other drivers in the world and it's fun to watch the in car views, but I can't get excited about the non door to door racing. 10) Anything else like NASCAR, Drag racing, swamp boats, and etc. Hey, some racing is better than no racing. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 665 Registered: 6-2001 |
I agree with Jon, with this exception: F1 in person is great to watch. On TV you lose the effect of the outrageous speed and stopping ability of the cars. I've been to several F1 races, including the one at Ceasars in Los Wages, where we the motorcycles were the 2nd show. We got to pit with them, and had an opportunity to meet and chat with the drivers and mechanics. At that time our stuff looked better than theirs. Not so today. Art | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 235 Registered: 2-2001 |
If I'm watching, after motocross/supercross, my picks are World Rally and World of Outlaws. Though, like Jon, will check out most racing stuff involving wheels if I happen past it (though snow-cross is cool, too). If I'm surfing and lawnmower racing's on Speedchannel, I'll stay tuned for a bit. Wish Kart racing aired more frequently. Agree w/those who think IRL could use a road course or two. Actually, CART and IRL could use a merger, IMO. Prefer the Glen and Sears, NASCAR-wise. Might be cool if they ran a street circuit or two, also (as in Trans-Am). Ed, re:Indy. Can see a fair bit from the roof above the suites and those willing to take a step or two can get full 360 from the tower. | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Junior Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 235 Registered: 8-2001 |
I have to agree with Art, that some of the other racing series could learn a lot from NASCAR. Also agree with Chuck that there doesn't seem to be any cross selling of the different series. F1 fans rarely watch NASCAR and NASCAR fans don't watch CART/F1 etc.. Those of us who race (either amatuer or professional) watch any type of racing I would venture to guess. But the average fan has never been on a track much less raced wheel to wheel against someone else. So from their perspective it's all about entertainment and this is where NASCAR rules and to some extent IRL is beating CART. I never watched NASCAR at all until Speedvision became the Speedchannel. I started out watching a few races and started to get interested in NASCAR. All I hear from my friends is lousy hick jokes about NASCAR being a bunch of farmers, who can't do anything but turn left, can't talk in complete sentences etc.... What most F1 fans, CART fans, IRL fans and the like think of NASCAR is total b*llshit. Many of these guys raced Sprint cars on dirt tracks which takes just as much skill as driving go-karts or single seaters. Driving a 700 hp cage with four wheels in the dirt takes skill. They may talk funny, they may use ancient technology, and they may all be driving roving billboards but they pack in the spectators, put on a good show, mingle with the ordinary fans, and can damn well race. Look at all the open wheel guys who went to NASCAR and can't do sh*t (Andretti, Pruett, Robby Gordon,etc..). Then look at some of the sports car drivers who occasionally race and don't win either (Ron Fellows, Boris Said, etc). Then take a look at IROC and ask yourself why the open wheel guys don't mop up the field with their superior talent. The late Dale Earnhardt Sr. was less than half a second slower on on his first outing at Daytona in the factory CR5 Corvette also being driven by Fellows, Pilgrim, O'Connel. He had never driven the infield course before and had never driven a sequential gear shift or a ground effects car with downforce. Make no mistake if F1 is on or CART, I am not watching NASCAR but if it's golf, tennis, pro bowlers tour, or soccer, I am watching NASCAR. Much of the reason I never watched NACAR was the terrible coverage and commentators. CBS, TNT, and all those other terrible channels turned me off. The commentary from Benny Parsons and Ned Jarret put me to sleep but the current FOX crew with Waltrip (ok he's a bit of a hick) and the others are very good and make the entertainment plausible. I watch NASCAR for entertainment. I watch F1 for the technology and of course Ferrari. I watch CART because I have done some single seater racing and lastly I watch IRL much like NASCAR because it's exciting. I also watch touring cars (US, UK, Aussies, and DTM), and SCCA amatuer series (Toyota Atlantic, FM, F2000 etc..) To me racing is racing. Plain and simple. I have friends who spend a small fortune racing Formula Contientals and Toyota Atlantics (step down from CART) and also have friends who race VW's and $3000 Ford Pinto's with V8's in them. At the end of the day racing is fun no matter what you drive. Hell some of my friends would race lawn mowers if they had to. As far as CART is concerned I don't think it will die off. I know Art is involved with some of CART's drivers so he may have first hand knwledge about the series but I don't think it will fold, though they may at some point merge with IRL. The engine specs that Art mentioned were actually dropped a few weeks back and CART is now going with a Turbocharged Cosworth spec engine for 2003. They will then consider adopting the IRL engine specs. There are too many feeder series such as SCCA (FM, FC, FF, F2000, FA, and TA) to let CART die and the series is becoming popular outside the US, especially in Latin America where most of the drivers come from. The one very interesting thing about NASCAR is their move in recent months to court up and coming stars from open wheel ranks, especially the young go-kart kids. They are doing this by offering big bucks to young kids. Look at Ryan Newman, Keven Harvick, Jimmie Johnson, etc. They are also trying to make the sport attractive to Latin America and have gotten C. Fittipalti to sign on. Many touring car drivers in the UK and Europe are trying to come over to Busch and Winston cup. Several drivers from the UK ASCAR series are being given testing days. ASCAR is getting many popular drivers in Europe out of conventional touring car series. Jason Plato, 2001 BTCC champ, Mercedes DTM driver Darring Manning, and even WRC rally Champion Colin MCCrae recently drove in the UK stock car series. Michael Veggers who raced against Schumcher and Frentzen in F3 recently drove in a Busch race. As far as F1 being dramatic, please give me a break. I won't say it's boring but it sure ain't entertainment. I am one of those die hard Tifosi who waited a hell of a long time for a Championship and can well remember the lean years when McLaren, Williams, Benneton and the like wiped the track clean with Ferrari, but it's getting a bit dull. I can remember two years ago getting up at 7:00 am to watch qualifying, now I can barely bring my self to get out of bed on Sunday monring to watch the race. A few times after Schumi clinched the title I just taped it and watched it later. Comparing F1 to NASCAR is never going to work. F1 is all about radical technology, extreme speed, and to some extent a lot of politics thanks to Bernie. The drivers in F1 make millions of $$$'s, fly in their own private jets, live in beachfront condo's in Montle Carlo (or huge yachts) and rarely give any access to their private lives. You will never see F1 drivers hosting their own show (probably a good thing for guys like Kimi, Mika, etc.) sitting down at a table signing autographs, or allowing spectators to visit their repsective race shops for a tour. F1 is not about fan entertainment, it's about a bunch of wealthy car owners giving rides to wealthy kids for the benefit of one very wealthy series owner (Bernie) so he can have fun in his own personal sandbox. CART has to some extent gone this route and this is where IRL has chosen to emulate NASCAR and is now starting to win the battle. As long as there are things wtih wheels on them to race I'll watch (sorry I don't watch speed boats or snowmobile racing). Rubin' is racin' !! (from Days of Thunder) Regards, Jon P. Kofod 1995 F355 Challenge #23 1988 BMW M5 Club racer #44 1998 Spec Racer Ford #6 | ||
| A.Tonokaboni (Senna1994)
New member Username: Senna1994 Post Number: 3 Registered: 9-2002 |
As a devoted F1 fan for the past 20 years plus, I have to agree that the last 2 IRL races have been the most exciting in a longtime. Awesome. I do wish the IRL did Road Courses, you never know if it may happen if CART goes under. Saying that F1 is the pinnacle, however the last few seasons are really becoming boring. Did anyone see the race in 1979 between Gilles Villeneuve and Rene Arnoux at Dijon? That was exciting. Unfortunately that bonehead Max Mosley equates GP racing to a chess game, forget that. Get rid of the rear diffuser, make the front wings smaller, no more barge boards, increase the track to what it was and have slick tires again. Mechanical grip is always more exciting racing than Aerodynamics. No one goes to a race to see what the Aerodynamicist have done, bring back the excitement. | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member Username: Fred Post Number: 617 Registered: 2-2001 |
I does me good. Everytime they win I feel great!  I will just enjoy it while I can. Nothing lasts forever. In a few years another team will move up to compete. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2139 Registered: 12-2000 |
I'll take Ferraris dominance as long as it lasts. I put up with too many years when Ferrari was 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rate. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 664 Registered: 6-2001 |
The IRL only does ovals because Mr. George only wants to do ovals. When George and CART split a few years ago, that was the difference. Now that CART is most probably dead, we will have no Road Races with open wheel vehicles, unless you like Formula Madza or the like. There is a rumour that king Tony will allow Road Races when it suits his fancy, but not until CART is a done deal. Since CART has basically adopted the IRL rules, this will probably happen sooner rather than later. As to those that are F1 fans, I think that the current F1 rules are such that there is no passing, little competition. F1 could learn a lot from NASCAR. The only that that Bill, Sr. did was make the rules such that when one team or brand had an advantage, he would equalize the field. F1 could use that right now. Although I love Ferrari, its domination of the sport does no one any good. Art | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1962 Registered: 2-2001 |
My seats are in the Penthouse directly across from the Ferrari pits and none of the road course can be seen. Well, you can get a spit second glimpse but nothing like seeing the IRL cars on an oval. I was at Charlotte when the IRL car wheel went into the stands and the spectators were killed. It was a bad experience but I really wish they would come back to Charlotte. | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member Username: Fred Post Number: 616 Registered: 2-2001 |
When the CART IRL split first happened I hated the IRL. The first year at the Indy 500 I felt like there were a bunch of second rate drives with a couple of good ones mixed in. Now as the better drivers and teams have crossed over I really think it has become a great series and I hate to say it but I don't think CART will be around too much longer. I love F1 and being a Ferrari fan I am just fine with the results week in and week out. My daughter is 10 and spent the weekend with my father at his farm. She called me yesterday and said she couldn't believe that MS was in SECOND place. I had to tell her that he doesn't win them all just most of them. ED at the Indy speedway if you pick the right seats for the 500 you can see half of the track and if you sit in H or J stand you can see close to half of the track for the F1 race. I will be in H stand this year. (thank you Brian Stewart) | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 390 Registered: 1-2002 |
Great race yesterday; great IRL race last week, and the week before, and...... Ovals or not, THIS is TRUE competition! But, yeah, the F1 ladies are non pareil... | ||
| Chuck Babel (Chuck_98_rt10)
Junior Member Username: Chuck_98_rt10 Post Number: 56 Registered: 5-2002 |
There seems to be a lot of race snobs. F1 doesn�t like American racing, ovals don�t like road, NASCAR vs Cart vs IRL vs F1. Drag racers hate them all. I like all of it but F1 needs some competition. They also could do a better job marketing in the States. It�s not like they don�t have a solid fan base here look at the ticket sales for F1 at Indy. It just seems like they don�t give a damn. And the women, oh the women. | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 265 Registered: 4-2002 |
I think another reason for the growth of NASCAR is that fans can more readily identify with the drivers. NASCAR drivers are more like the average fan than are people who race sports cars. There is a definite contrast in 'presentation' made by the drivers. I watch NASCAR road racing, however. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 640 Registered: 2-2001 |
Rob, I wouldn't consider myself a road racing snob, as I watch many other types of car racing like rally. People have been trying to get me to a NASCAR or IRL race for years, but I have held off to this day. Maybe someday I will make a CART or IRL race, but NASCAR is certainly out of the question. I watched yesterday's race, and it was fine, but I just can't get excited about going around in a circle with ten passes a lap. In F1 a pass is something that is hard to come by, and savored, because it is so difficult. You have to really earn a pass in F1. But F1 has problems right now because of the low competitiveness of Williams and McLaren. Once these teams get back up to speed, with maybe Jaguar and Renault next in line, we will see some good racing. Ernesto | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2128 Registered: 12-2000 |
Ernesto, I was once a road racing snob like you, but give this IRL racing a chance. There's not a road racing snob in the world that wouldn't of been excited by the racing yesterday. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2127 Registered: 12-2000 |
Edward is right. Road racing isn't as appealing to the masses anymore. Road racing is decent on TV because they can follow someone around the track, but in person you'll never see all of the racing. I thought rovals may have been a good idea, but the driver's hate it and ALMS/GA didn't market it well. 95% of your fans that turn up for NASCAR events don't know what road racing is, who it's driver's are, or anything about the cars. I bet 90% of those 95% would love road racing if given a chance. I think CART can get away with road racing because it has more of an international flavor and fan base. Americans know circle racing, the world knows road racing. IRL has the best open wheel formula in America right now, but for my own selfishness I would like to see more road racing. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 639 Registered: 2-2001 |
I agree with Lawrence and Andre. Until IRL does more road courses, they will not have me as a fan. I just cannot get excited about watching cars go around in a circle, no matter how fast they are going or how many lead changes occur. I don't really care if I can't see the whole track as a spectator. I was just at Spa, where the track is literally in the middle of a mountain and you cant see much. I loved it! Ernesto | ||
| Andre Vieira (Goggles_pisano)
New member Username: Goggles_pisano Post Number: 46 Registered: 5-2002 |
I was never an Indy Racing League fan, but any IRL race in Texas Motor Speedway is worth watching. Those last twenty laps were awesome! Now if only those guys can get over their phobia of turning right... | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1956 Registered: 2-2001 |
It is extremely difficult to pass on most road courses and also difficult from a spectators view to see the entire track. This is the reason for the growth of Nascar and the IRL. Even with penthouse seats at the Indy track you can only see about 1/4 of the competition. | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 263 Registered: 4-2002 |
Why doesn't IRL do road races? The oval stuff is boring. | ||
| john (Johnwto)
New member Username: Johnwto Post Number: 14 Registered: 6-2002 |
the IRL is the best racing by far right now. i hated oval racing at first but these guys are amazing. the last race at chicago the top 10 finishers were within .09 sec of each other. every race there is 3 and 4 cars side by side at 190 mph. the races are spectacular. | ||
| Tillman Strahan (Tillman)
Junior Member Username: Tillman Post Number: 65 Registered: 11-2001 |
I was at that race, 3rd row literally on the start/finish line. Freaking great racing. I'm not even an IRL fan, but I may change my mind after seeing that race. Afterwards, we wandered around tha garage area for quite a while. The fans' access to the driver/crew/equipment was amazing. I begin now to understand why this series is gaining in popularity. And, I picked up a 1/18 scale F1-2000 | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2124 Registered: 12-2000 |
Saw it in person. IRL has been having the best racing the past few years. CART is on the downfall. I wish IRL would do a few road races though. | ||
| Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Member Username: Bob308gts Post Number: 309 Registered: 9-2001 |
The IRL race was a great one, can't even imagine side by side for 15+ laps at 210+. The F1 race was good for 10 laps, but when an Fcar wins it's always good. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1952 Registered: 2-2001 |
Did anyone watch the IRL race today? Can't get much more dramatic than that. They had more lead changes in the last couple of laps than F-1 had all year. Great finish for the F-1 race but boring competition wise. |