| Author | Message | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
Junior Member Username: Mojo Post Number: 74 Registered: 9-2002 |
O.K. Corvette's are great car's!!! Ferrari's are great car's that cost more. Just buy what you like, grow up, lighten up, don't worry what others think. It's all good!!! Now how about a big group hug. | ||
| Lawrence (Fatherlarry)
New member Username: Fatherlarry Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2002 |
Since Corvette owners have had their say here, maybe some of you Ferrari owners would like to come and have your say on my forum. My father and I repaired exotics in our body shop. The workmanship on the Ferrari is totally unbelievable. For instance, paint, finish and fit, interior is outstanding. The craftsmanship and welding is superior. The layout of their harness, routing of wiring, and casting of their drive tranny & components in additional to all the above, make this car worth every dollar. You're not only buying a performance car, you are buying a superior quality. The Corvette is a great American sportscar and definitely a performer, but naturally because of our gov't restrictions, especially starting in 1970 and continuing through the mid '90's the Vette has suffered. With the beginning of the ZR1 which was geared towards competition with the exotics, and received world recogntion, was the beginning for new technology and performance. Our Vettes were basically quarter mile performers, but with the new generation and new technology the Corvette is now able to compete in all areas. Corvette is an American icon, however, is just now starting to be recognized in the International market. We are just seeing the beginning of what the Corvette will contribute to the automotive industry. I'm Italian and I do favor the Italian workmanship and engineering of the Ferrari. I'll take a Corvette or Ferrari over a Mercedes, Jaguar and Porsche any day. I respect all you Ferrari owners. When one of my members asked Bob Pache, retired chemist and formulator of Mobil 1 synethetic oil, and now on the payroll for the Penske Racing team, what car he would own other than a Corvette.....well I guess you know the answer to that. Come and say hello on FatherLarry's Corvette Shop & Forum. We'd be more than happy to hear your opinions and experiences with your Ferrari. And, I do get a wave or thumbs up from Ferrari people. My heart is dedicated to the Corvette, for it's my baby boom generation who have stuck by it and are now trying to pass the torch on.  | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1529 Registered: 6-2001 |
amen, ty | ||
| ty (360mode)
Junior Member Username: 360mode Post Number: 68 Registered: 9-2002 |
w/o a doubt - i completely disagree with any notions on this board that owning a ferrari makes you more of a person. that idea is so ridiculous that it's not even worth a response. a car is just a car and money is just money. you can't judge a person's character by the size of their wallet... that's for damn sure. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2151 Registered: 2-2001 |
Every fan of whatever make shares the same experience. I get a smile when I drive the Corvette or the Corvair and I got one with the Ferrari too. Problem is that everyone cannot justify owning all the brands that put smiles on their faces. It does not make the person any less a person though. | ||
| ty (360mode)
Junior Member Username: 360mode Post Number: 67 Registered: 9-2002 |
Bill: well said... if you measure a car's "worth" solely by top speed, HP, torque, 1/4 times PER DOLLAR, then no, don't buy a ferrari or sell it if that's your goal. my god, no one ever said ferrari's are the fastest cars out there. there isn't one 328 owner here that thinks his car is the fastest thing he could have bought for $60k. but if you're buying a ferrari you're not solely concerned about such things. | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 337 Registered: 4-2002 |
I've got a 944turbo (4 cyl engine) with just about 400 hp that I put together myself. It'll outrun my 328 going backwards. But I don't get the smile on my face from it that I get from my 'slow' 328. Even my little 2 seat AMG roadster with its 90 more hp and much more speed doesn't put the same smile on my face. There is just something about Ferrari. | ||
| John Shiels (Gs96c599)
New member Username: Gs96c599 Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2002 |
This thread is old but when I go to Pocono my crumy Vette does a fine job turning a 1:37 on the long course don't see many exotics near me matter of fact none. | ||
| Bill Martinson (Billy2kfrc)
New member Username: Billy2kfrc Post Number: 11 Registered: 3-2002 |
The Corvette is the best car I could buy. Basically, that includes Vipers, NSX, etc. For the $36k I paid for my 2000 Hardtop, plus the $15k I've put into it, it's a tough car to beat. It looks great, makes 440rwhp (about 520bhp), handles like it's rails, will run 10.90 in the 1/4, and stops great. It's also very comfortable, I can drive it 70 miles a day comfortably, and get 28mpg on the highway in 6th gear. It also sounds great, the off-road exhaust with only two small Borla mufflers to quiet it down.  And it'll even shoot flames out the tailpipes when I let off the gas. That's something I saw my dream F40 do once, and I love that I have a car that does it. Now, with all that said, would I take a "slower" Yellow F360 Modena with Tubi off-road pipes over my car? HELL YEAH! But, for now, or until I can dig up $150k from my couch, I'll settle for my Vette. Having the fastest car is great, but there is something about a Ferrari, a certain feeling, a certain sound, that no other car can quite match. I might beat a 360 in a race, but I'd rather be the loser. 2000 Corvette Hardtop Cartek X-Package - 440rwhp | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 334 Registered: 4-2002 |
I was talking about GM cars in general, not the high powered ones. I've driven the 'ordinary' ones. They downshift at the drop of a hat. Perhaps I should have been more specific. When I changed the subject to GM, I was becoming general in nature (pun intended). Large displacement engines make big torque numbers. And American engines are huge in comparison to European engines. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1528 Registered: 6-2001 |
"This means small inclines cause a downshift." they have so much torque that this doesnt happen. My friend has a camaro and it handles hills onthe highway with no problem, never going above 2000rpms at 70mph. | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 333 Registered: 4-2002 |
Final drive on Corvettes is very tall making it useless for anything other than highway cruising (manual tranny). Car and Driver tests indicate it takes 11.5 seconds to accelerate from 50-70 in 6th. But it saves fuel. You get smaller friction losses at low rpm. GM tends to use a really tall final gearing even with automatics. This means small inclines cause a downshift. European cars tend to have shorter gearing probably out of necessity due to their smaller displacement engines. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1526 Registered: 6-2001 |
Ed, i dont doubt it. vettes are really nice cars. you cant go wrong with them. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2145 Registered: 2-2001 |
Actually Tim, my C-5 got 33 mpg on a trip to Fla. last week to the Corvette reunion ay Ecklers. The freaking thing can almost be classified as an economy car. My Sebring with a 2.7 gets 28 MPG, My old Corvair gets about 20 and the 308 Ferrari got 18MPG. Unbelieveable what some intelligent gearing and electronics can do. I certainly did not buy it for the fuel mileage aspect, but it sure is a nice plus with uncertain times ahead. Insurance is very reasonable on it as well. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1523 Registered: 6-2001 |
yeah you probalby should | ||
| ty (360mode)
Junior Member Username: 360mode Post Number: 66 Registered: 9-2002 |
my modified serpent radio controlled car can do 0-60 in about 3 flat - i guess i better throw away the ferrari. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 82 Registered: 6-2002 |
who cares how a 355 does against a camaro? ive seen 355's that run 12.80's. big deal. The corvette and the camaro, will never have the look, the feel, the sound, the exclusivity of the ferrari. If its just performance you want, why not buy a pinto, shove a 350 in it and some nos, 1500 bucks and your rockin! | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1520 Registered: 6-2001 |
"racer 001, im a member on the z06 board, and ive noticed that most stock z06's are running high 12's and low 13's. the fastest times posted are not done with street tires." allan, i find that VERY hard to believe, or the conditions are horrible. My friends 99 camaro SS runs a 12.8 and it only has an exhaust, intake and the factory option 3.23 gears. and its an automatic. I'd like to see how a $120k F355 would deal with a $27,000 camaro. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1519 Registered: 6-2001 |
"i cant believe you guys are comparing a corvette to a ferrari. there is no comparison! a corvette was designed for the common people, anyone can afford one" you have no class whatsoever. not everyone can afford a corvette. i'd venture to say that over half the working population makes less per year than what a new vette convertible costs. I guess if you have alot of money you dont have to think about the people who work paycheck to paycheck at horrible jobs, or teachers who dont want to make money, but rather positively influence someones life. Just beacuse ou have money doesnt make you better than people who dont. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1518 Registered: 6-2001 |
I didnt read all the posts, but corvettes are simply superior cars. A z06 is faster on the street, strip and road course, its cheaper, handles better, sounds almost as good, has almost twice the torque, etc. IT has BALLS, Sure the ferrari looks great and is fast once it gets up to speed, but its not as well an engineered car. It usues more to get less done, AND its higher compression, so it should have a greater thermal efficiency. Look at the engine, the 306 is a 3.6L v8, making 395hp, and les than 280ft/lbs/. IT gets 14 mpg highway (if ur lucky) the Z06 makes 405hp out of a 5.7L V8, has ovcer 400ft/lbs of toruqe and gets high 20's on the highway. The vette doesnt need anything more than oil changes for 100k miles, never needs timing belts, has a 4 yr warranty, dealer support in just about every decent sized city, and the list goes on... Untill i have a house and no expenses, and $160k burning a hole in my pocket why would i drive a ferrari? Sure they are great cars and i love them, but im sick of peole saying that they are so much better than vettes when they are not. I like performance, bottom line! if its not fast, why bother? Looks? - you dont see the car when you are driving it. showing off? -if you buy a sportscar just to look rich then you have alot of tjhinking to do. "soul"? -its a car! . | ||
| Dave L (Davel)
Junior Member Username: Davel Post Number: 218 Registered: 7-2001 |
I agree completely Frank. Well said. No matter what economic status or image bring, it will only go so far with so many other capable, attractive vehicles as options. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1444 Registered: 9-2001 |
While I don't want a C5 at this time, I have to agree with Ed that Ferarri needs to improve it's cars substantially if it is to survive as a company. The higher build quailty of most of it's competitors is going to cost it customers. The C5, Viper, NSX, S2000, Z8 and others ben improved greatly over past such cars and now have the performance to boot. The emotion taht comes with a Ferrari kept them alive when there wasn't much competitiont chose from with the same type of performance. That emotion will not keep Ferrari alive when there are a lot of competitors out there with similiar or better performance at a lower price. This competition is coming from good looking, fast, reliable cars that can be driven daily without a lot if any maintenance other than fluid/filter changes. I think Ferrari has caught on and that is why it's new engines will again have cam chains rather than belts and will have extended service intervals compared to past models. Yes, one day, IMHO, if Ferarri is to survive, you will be able to drive one for 20k miles a year without having the engine out at least once during that period. | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 283 Registered: 3-2002 |
Point taken allan. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 75 Registered: 6-2002 |
as i said, corvette, just a car. a nice car at that, but not in the same class as Porsche, Lotus, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Viper etc. Nothing having to do with money, or wealth, just the cars in general. | ||
| ty (360mode)
Junior Member Username: 360mode Post Number: 58 Registered: 9-2002 |
not a fan of modern american sportscars so i won't go there, but if you're talking a '63 vette - now that was and will always be a GREAT CAR!! | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2128 Registered: 2-2001 |
I would prefer to be a boring Corvette owner than a snobish ••••••• with a Ferrari. Money sure can't always buy class. | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 282 Registered: 3-2002 |
allan, your comment about Corvette owners was lame and childish... you may have some dough, but you sir, have no class... "He probobly thought back to those days of yesteryear, when he too was jobless, and drove a Vette, just like all the other 10 million boring Corvette owners." Is that some kind of stereotype you picked up? Corvette owners are some of the nicest people you'll ever meet. | ||
| Jim Conforti (Lndshrk)
New member Username: Lndshrk Post Number: 18 Registered: 8-2002 |
Jobless? ROTFLMAO. Go do a websearch on my name ... (It'll save you from making a bigger fool of yourself than you already have) I owned a Lotus Esprit... 98TT. Traded it in on an '01 M3 for my wifey. It's just a car. Nice car.. REAL nice car Still, just a car. Also bought an '02 Z06.. it's everything they say it is and more... I foolishly sold it. I'll be buying an 03 for use as my daily. Oh, and the F50 owner.. he wanted MY expertise in tuning his motor. He thought that money equaled "priority". It doesn't. Not to mention that as rich as (he thinks he) is, many of my other clients are OEMs with just a bit more "important" work to be done. (Like winning Lemans cars/etc). (Jobless.. ROTFLMAO.. thanks.. after working about 90 hours last week, and 10hours today I really needed a laugh) | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 73 Registered: 6-2002 |
Oh Jim, just keep dreaming. I do agree with you on one point, a corvette, is just a car. A Ferrari, is not just a car, neither is a Lambo, neither is Lotus. As far a Z06 beating a stock Lotus, dream on. The cars are soo close, it could go either way each time. The only way a great driver breaks into 11's in a Z06, is on slicks, not street tires. I too am on the Z06 forum and have studied their stats. Im very impressed by how you showed the Ferrari F50 owner up, im sure you really showed him! He probobly thought back to those days of yesteryear, when he too was jobless, and drove a Vette, just like all the other 10 million boring Corvette owners. | ||
| Jim Conforti (Lndshrk)
New member Username: Lndshrk Post Number: 16 Registered: 8-2002 |
Oh MY God, I'm sorry.. I just have to get out the SHOVEL here. and maybe some HIP WADERS "The Common People".. "Special People" Allan, maybe you ain't got it figured out.. Corvette.. it's just a car. Lambo.. it's just a car Lotus.. it's just a car Ferrari.. YUP, just a car. Each one of them might be cool to someone. Might be NOT cool to someone else. Still, just a car. Bits of metal.. rubber.. copper, plastic, glass. No SOUL.. nothing that makes anyone "special". I'm sorry, the size of your wallet or trust fund doesn't make ANYONE special with me. Then again, I've told one of the richest dorks in the USA to stuff his F50 up his butt when he pissed me off. Tell me how many burning buildings you've entered, hearts you've repaired, etc.. that's special. A car is a car. Period. Umm.. BTW Allan, reality time.. since I've owned both.. an '02 Z06 will SPANK a stock, or even lightly modified Lotus V8tt Esprit. If a Z06 owner (a decent driver can do low 12 qtrs, a great driver can break into 11's) lets you win, that's their problem. Up your HP in the Esprit a bit more, do a few nice quick 1-2 shifts.. repair/replace POS Renault transmission. Where the Lotus shines is high speed (130+) stability. It will lose any stoplight war unless you abuse it. If you abuse it, you'll be finding out about replacing synchros. | ||
| Mark Izzo (Tdf355)
Junior Member Username: Tdf355 Post Number: 121 Registered: 3-2002 |
Common people....eeeesshh | ||
| Jeffrey Caspar (Jcaspar1)
New member Username: Jcaspar1 Post Number: 31 Registered: 5-2002 |
Paul, You are right. I think the build quality of American cars has improved tremendously since 1994. I don't think a 1994 Corvette had better initial quality than a Honda or Porsche. A 2002 does. My 1993 K2500 now has 130k miles and has very few problems but I keep it well maintained. I think higher $ cars always get better maintenance. My Viper sure does. A member of our local club bought his Viper with the $$ that he got when BMW was forced to buy back his 740 under the lemon law. I guess all then all BMW's must be of poor quality. Hopefully someone else has some data other than these anticdotal stories... My best friend in high school has a Pinto MPG (the economy model)! He called the accelerator pedal the volume switch, as all it seemed to do was increase the sound the car made. He had the repair for the gas tank done. They put in a steel plate to direct the blast rearward! Serves those tailgaters right! I am glad auto quality has improved so dramatically since then but I still miss my 1969 Mustang Fastback (which was very reliable)� | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2095 Registered: 2-2001 |
When evaluating a car it is really dependent on the individual owner as to the total report on a car. Since 1972 I have owned 4 new Chevy Vegas, two Berettas, a Lumina, and an Impala SS. The only warranty claims made was a carb base on the first Vega, an engine block in the second Vega, and a paint flaw on one of the wheels on the Impala SS. That is a lot of Chevys and a lot of miles. A different owner could have picked the same cars to death and had hundreds of claims. I have seen it happen that an owner will tire of the car and get paymentitis and pick a car until it is bought back or allowed to be taken back by the finance company. I take care of my cars and My old lumpy Corvair is better than it was when new. If almost any car is properly cared for it will last a long time. My wife drove one of the Vegas for over 20 years and I have owned the Corvair since 1968. Two of the "Worst" cars GM ever made and I have used them for years. In fact the same Vega my wife had is still running around town. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 572 Registered: 12-2001 |
Allen, I was wondering if you have initial quality reports on the pinto? A stock one is faster than a vette, when it gets rear-ended and that big fire ball is pushing you forward. LOL | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 69 Registered: 6-2002 |
i cant believe you guys are comparing a corvette to a ferrari. there is no comparison! a corvette was designed for the common people, anyone can afford one, while a ferrari is for that special person who wants to stand appart. Ive owned corvettes and ive owned ferraris, there is absolutely no comparison. certainly you can have a corvette thats as fast or even faster than a ferrari, big deal, you can also have a pinto thats faster than a corvette. | ||
| Noelrp (Noelrp)
Junior Member Username: Noelrp Post Number: 85 Registered: 8-2001 |
Paul, Agreed 100%. The reason why I would never buy a domestic car again !!! ...had a Chevy once (okay it's my mom) & I swear that i'll never buy one again. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 566 Registered: 12-2001 |
Maintaining the car will obviously have an impact on the engine and drivetrain. It wont stop cheap plastic from breaking, it wont prevent squeeks and rattles especially on a ragtop. I had a 94 Z28 and I can say that it was well maintained. It didnt stop my electrical problems from coming. The rear end had gear whine, the optical distributor was a piece of cow dung, that goes for the water pump too. Not to mention oil leaks from the intake and exhaust manifold to head mounting bolts that would just break off without being touched, causing an exhaust leak. I liked the car over all but they just go down hill fast after about 5 years. My car only had 98kms on it and no winters. It didnt matter that I maintained it. It still fell apart. This seems to apply to GM in general whether its a cavalier or a corvette. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2094 Registered: 2-2001 |
I first drove the C-5 in 1999 when one of my customers purchased one. I have maintained it since day one and it now has over 50,000 miles on it and is as smooth and quiet and trouble free as new. The condition of a USED car will totally be dependent on how it was maintained. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 787 Registered: 2-2001 |
Just go to a used car lot and take a test drive on a two year old vette. That will tell you everything you need to know. Ernesto | ||
| Jeffrey Caspar (Jcaspar1)
New member Username: Jcaspar1 Post Number: 29 Registered: 5-2002 |
I posted the JD Powers data to try and get away from the "I know a guy who had problems with his Corvette" or my 1980 911 was much better built than my 1980 Vette. This data is for 2002 models. It is not a contest where people vote on the car they think is the best, but a survey sent to new car buyers to detail the number of defects each car has. I am sure more expensive cars do better as who wants to admit that they spent $$$ on a lemon. It does not include most exotics (Ferrari, Viper, Lotus etc) as their number are too low. I would love to see data on defects at 20,000 miles if anyone has it. I am sure most Corvette owners know that modern Corvettes are bulit much better than those of past years. Most Porsche owners seem to think that modern Porsches are not bulit as well as those in the past. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2087 Registered: 2-2001 |
The JD Powers surveys are totally independent of any manufacturer. If anyone cares to come to Titusville Fla the 19th of Oct. at Ecklers Corvette, you will see thousands of Corvettes and meet some really fine people just like the Ferrari people I met at Indy. All real "Car Guys". | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Junior Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 60 Registered: 8-2002 |
When I had my Vette I went to a the local Corvette club meet here in Vegas at a local Pub, their must have been a 100 owners there but only about 4 Vettes in the parking lot aside from mine. it seems they were afraid to drive them. Talk about snobbery it was very apparant there especially in the old vs new classes There is no way any Corvette has better quality than a Porsche 911 I have owned both and driven all different model types, I dont care how much GM paid some rag to do a bogus survey, the shop I had my 68 worked on had plenty of newer C5s with many electrical glitches and other problems. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 560 Registered: 12-2001 |
If they did an initial quality report on a new 360 when it came out, would they find bad things? Would they say it looks cheap inside or panel fit sucks? Would they say it cant perform? I doubt it. Obviously price isnt an issue if a vette, honda and porche are battling it out. Initial quality reports are useless. Tell me after 20,000 miles of use if its a pile of crap or not. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2085 Registered: 2-2001 |
How come if anything other than a Ferrari wins something the results must be skewed for some reason? Eventually you are going to have to admit that they might just be right. I like Ferrari too but am not to biased to give an honest opinion. When I get my questionaire about my ownership of my new Corvette, I am going to have to give it perfect marks so far. If someone comes out with something better than a Vette I will give it a chance too, regardless of it's country of origin. | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 258 Registered: 3-2002 |
The Corvette beat a Porsche and a Honda in quality tests... what does that tell you? :D | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2961 Registered: 5-2001 |
Those surveys are so bad.... they do not reflect that for example Ferrari does not built that many cars thus not many people had the priviledge of driving them thus they could not vote on them. | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Intermediate Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 1007 Registered: 4-2002 |
hey yea ed, as mr newman states, better change your car in your profile, since you said you would pick your vette anyday over a ferrari as you stated, thats false advertising by you... | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 554 Registered: 12-2001 |
I guess you'll have to change your profile Ed and put that shiney new ferrari red chevrolet in place of that ol' 308. Wouldnt want people to get the wrong idea. | ||
| Jeffrey Caspar (Jcaspar1)
New member Username: Jcaspar1 Post Number: 28 Registered: 5-2002 |
J.D. Powers Inital Quality Survey 2002: Premium Sports Car, top 3 cars in order. 1. (Best) Chevrolet Corvette 2. Porsche 911 3. Honda S2000 Actually, we should all be proud that American cars did quite well: Car models ranking highest in their segment are: � Compact Car������������� Toyota Corolla and Toyota Prius (tie) Entry Midsize Car���������� �� � Chevrolet Malibu Premium Midsize Car�������� Buick Century Full-Size Car�������������� Buick LeSabre Entry Luxury Car������� �������� Ford Thunderbird Mid Luxury Car��������������� �� Lexus GS 300/GS 430 Premium Luxury Car��������� Lexus LS 430 Sporty Car������������������������� � Mazda Miata Premium Sports Car���������� Chevrolet Corvette | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2078 Registered: 2-2001 |
When Ferrari makes a car that is better than a Corvette at a comparable price that you do not have to pay outrageous repair bills to keep running, I will then consider Ferrari again. It just did not give me the thrill that would overcome the checks I had to write. I work hard for my money and after a while you begin to question the logic, just to say I own a Ferrari. I am still a fan, but not fanatic. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 544 Registered: 12-2001 |
So honestly Ed, you dont have the desire to own any ferrari? Do you think you will never miss some of the pleasures that come with owning one. I cant explain properly in words what I like about a ferrari or how I feel when Im driving mine but there is something there. I sold all my mopars and the parts I had horded downstairs and bought a ferrari for something different but think someday I will want a hemicar again or maybe a superbird even though right now, I have had enough of old chryslers. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2076 Registered: 2-2001 |
On a chat site you are more likely to post a bad experience than a good one. Just look at the problems posted here about the problems with ultra expensive Ferraris. The chat sites also are a small segment of the overall ownership numbers. If you want to be fair also go to the Corvette site and look at all the postings of people with high mileage cars with zero problems or only minor ones. Also, whether you believe them or not, the Corvette keeps winning quality awards which are feedback from actual owners as well as independent evaluators. I do agree that the Dealer network leaves a lot to be desired, but considering the pay discrepency between what a line tech for Chevy gets and the technician that you pay through the nose for at a Ferrari shop, it is elementary from there. Chevy sells every one that they can make, around 35000 per year and demand keeps increasing. The stats. don't lie. | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Junior Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 58 Registered: 8-2002 |
Like you guys said, the masses have them and probably don't care or know how to drive them properly so I'd bet a lot of these problems were due to driver issues, I am sure in the hands of Ed they would hold up better | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 765 Registered: 2-2001 |
I just visited this C5 bulletin board http://www.c5-corvette.com/bb.htm Unbelievable how many problems those cars have... stuck gears, wont go into gears, failed auto trannys, blown dash lights, creaks all over the place, engine overheating, traction control problems, all sorts of noises from the engine, paint discoloration... unbelievable.. and some of these are relatively new cars. But I guess compared to old vettes, this is good quality... I have two friends with C5 that can't wait to unload them because of all the problems they have had, and the dealer's crappy attitude in dealing with them. I guess Chevy dealers aren't up to the task of servicing $50K sports cars. Everything I have seen seems to indicate that these cars fall apart after a few years. Just go to used car lots and look at the used ones... Ernesto | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 543 Registered: 12-2001 |
I guess you didnt understand my point refering to a corvette as a car that most people can buy or lease. The outcome is a flood of them on the market and a major drop in value. I guess this applies to most mass produced vehicles so that lumps a vette into that catagory as well. Thats my honest review of the C5 corvette even though we talked about corvairs, lotus', old vettes and many other things as well. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2074 Registered: 2-2001 |
http://carpoint.msn.com/advice/windowshop.aspx?contentid=4021168&src=msn | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2072 Registered: 2-2001 |
C-5 Corvettes are no longer made of fiberglass but a composit plastic. They no longer creak and crackle, in fact they have the most stressed frame in the industry. As far as depreciation is concerned, any new car will depreciate unless there is a demand greater than the supply. Most used cars when purchased have already taken the big hit and the depreciation lessens as the car gets older providing there is some demand for it. The big advantage that a C-5 Corvette has is that you can drive it all you want without having to spend thousands on scheduled maintanence over the life of the car which needs to be factored in when measuring the total cost of ownership. Whether a car can be purchased with easy credit or by any social status of the buyer has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the car itself. The question of this thread is an honest opinion of the Corvette, not the socio-economic status of the buyer. The Corvette lacks "snob appeal" and I kinda like that. | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Junior Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 56 Registered: 8-2002 |
Having owned a 68 Convertible my Vette experience was dissappointing to say the least especially in comparison to the enginnering and quality of my 911 I checked out a new C5 a few years back and it would make a good daily driver but it was a little too boring for myself in a Lexus kind of way, the HUD was a cute gimmick though What happens to Vettes which I found most annoying was stress cracks in the fibreglass bodies and the inevitable creaks and groans that accompany it as the glass weakens from constant flexing , I am sure this happens to Vipers also as with Fibreglass as it can't be helped. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 540 Registered: 12-2001 |
I wouldnt go so far as to say Im slamming the C5. I can just think of many other ferraris I would buy for the same money a C5 or even the Z06 would cost. The thought of my C5 value dropping like a stone doesnt help either. It matters to me that when I spend $50k on a car that when Im tired of it I can sell it and not get absolutely hosed. I see at least 6 Z06's for sale used right now in my province and countless C5's in any configuration for loads less than they were new. And thats only in the autotrader. Also, for myself, rather than spend $50k on a daily driver, I would use that to upgrade my 308 to a 512BB. It just makes more sense to me. Yes a C5 is fast, yes a C5 is nice looking, yes its more reliable and better on fuel than my 308 but it aint a ferrari. At the end of the day, its just a corvette that anyone with a mediocre credit rating can attain on a lease and dump after a year. | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Junior Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 236 Registered: 3-2002 |
Well everyone has their likes and dislikes... I for one would rather have a ZO6 than a 308. And I know two very narrow minded persons who would take a Z over a 360 Modena/Spider. I'm glad to see so many Ferrari guys with Vettes.. and I'm equally glad to see than many enjoy their cars... Forza Corveti! ... or something to that effect.. :0 | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 758 Registered: 2-2001 |
I've driven various C5 vettes... unfortunately Ernesto | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2071 Registered: 2-2001 |
How can anyone give an objective opinion about a car that they have never driven? I will have to agree that my Corvair is old but it certainly is not lumpy. In fact there is not a lump in it to my knowledge. Obsolete? You bet it is and I still love it like a child, but I will also admit to it's short commings. Poor fuel economy, slow steering and braking, No A/C, a rattle here and there, and a poor heater. It is not a tenth what the new Corvette is and I refuse to insult anyones intelligence and try to sell them that it is. My Corvair is what it is, and it ain't no Corvette but I love it for what it is and do not pretend it is something else. I liked my Ferrari but it did not satisfy me like the Vette does. I could care less what anyone drives or likes, just please have some first hand experience about what you are talking about, instead of hearsay, before anyone slams something. | ||
| Mark Izzo (Tdf355)
Junior Member Username: Tdf355 Post Number: 113 Registered: 3-2002 |
Sorry Paul, I just noticed you have a 308. Go take the Z06 for a drive for the hell of it. Great everyday car. | ||
| Mark Izzo (Tdf355)
Junior Member Username: Tdf355 Post Number: 112 Registered: 3-2002 |
Have you ever driven a 308 Paul? | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 539 Registered: 12-2001 |
I would like to point out that being best in initial quality is nothing to be proud of. Read the words. Initial quality. Says nothing about lasting quality. The focus was named car of the year and best in initial quality. They couldnt forsee the 9 recalls and the problems they had retaining the rear wheels on the car. Also Ed, Im surprised that you would discard a 308 (calling it obsolete) and keep a lumpy old corvair. Now thats outdated! Talk about a pile. And no, I havent driven a new vette. I dont have to because its not a ferrari and a ferrari is what I want. Everybody and their brother has a C5 vette. Dont count your chickens yet Ed, its a GM and they have their share of problems, its just a matter of time before they pop up. | ||
| Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Member Username: Corsa Post Number: 259 Registered: 4-2001 |
OMG... | ||
| Mark Izzo (Tdf355)
Junior Member Username: Tdf355 Post Number: 111 Registered: 3-2002 |
For all of you Vette detractors, go test drive any new C5 or better yet a Z06. If your 308 makes you feel better than a ride in one of these I'd be amazed. If Enzo were alive, I bet he would pick the Vette. He never liked the 308 anyway. I owned a 308,355 and two Z06 cars(2001,2003). Dont believe the hype. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2067 Registered: 2-2001 |
I am offering an open invitation for anyone to come drive my new Corvette and examine the fit and finish and point out any flaws to me. I am sorry, but I have yet to find any and I am very picky. After one test drive, I declared the 308 obsolete in comparison. After 3000 miles, I am happier every day. I am also proud that I bought a car made in the USA that can compete with almost anything and not need an account at Fort Knox to keep it doing so. | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Junior Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 228 Registered: 3-2002 |
Ernesto, the C5 has won many awards in engineering. JD Powers awared it "Best Premium Sports Car in Initial Quality" Two Years in a Row... Car and Drivers 10 best list... ZO6 Automobile of the year 2001 Much more praise, fit and finish included... yes, the materials in the interior could be better, but then again is a $50k Corvette, not a $80k NSX... | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 753 Registered: 2-2001 |
Paul, my sentiments exactly! A Vette may offer "raw" performance numbers, but it is very bland. It can't compare to ANY Ferrari in terms of excitement and emotion. Sure, it is a nice bank for the buck performance wise, but all the C5s I have been in are really lacking in overall fit and finish and interior quality of materials. I mean, it is very good for an American car, but compared to ten year old Japanese sports cars like the 300ZX, RX7, NSX and Supra, it is really lacking in that department. Sure, its faster... but when you compare overall quality it is really lacking. I'd rather have any of those used cars than a brand-new Vette, and definitely a 308/328. Ernesto | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 299 Registered: 7-2001 |
Paul, Not to sure about the high depreciation rate of the Z06, as they seem to hold their value quite well. The vettes are finally being recognized by the magazines and car enthusiasts as an honest attempt as a real sports car. So in the end, it all comes down to whats important to you. If you get a vette..you get something that is very reliable with a warranty and a high performance car that in on par with a 360 Modena. If you spend the same amount of money as the vette on a Ferrari, you get something that looks good, but won't be as reliable, wont be anywhere close to performance of a new vette, and will attract lots of attention. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2066 Registered: 2-2001 |
Obviously someone else has not driven a new Corvette. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 537 Registered: 12-2001 |
There is more to a car than bang for your buck. Holding value or at least not spiraling down like my deposit in the toilet is important. Also, there is something that is special about owning a ferrari that you dont get by owning a vette. A C5 will beat my 308 in probably every area it think (correct me if I wrong) but I still wouldnt trade it for a C5. If Ed offered me his vette even trade, I would, only to sell it becasue of it being of greater value and go buy another ferrari. Thats my opinion, Ive owned over 30 cars in the past and have never felt as good as when Im in my ferrari, and it by far isnt the fastest one Ive owned but I still love it. If you take into consideration the large output of $$$ for a Z06 and the dropping value on the daily basis vs a ferrari that is expensive to maintain but holds value better, whats the difference? Either way, its money gone and in the end, you own a ferrari not a plastic chevy. An 89 mustang 5.0 is a better bang for you buck than a new corvette. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 297 Registered: 7-2001 |
lol Racer.... that was my point. But most guys on here cannot appreciate that, becuase it lacks the 'prancing horse' badges. I cannot think of a better bang for buck than the Z06. Not even the new supercharged cobras. | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Junior Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 221 Registered: 3-2002 |
James, they don't need gated shifters, ferrari emblems and tripled pricing. What makes them great is that their bang for your buck. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 294 Registered: 7-2001 |
Ed, If the new C5 vettes came with gated shifters, ferrari emblems and tripled in price....most people on this site would buy them and praise the hell outta them. Especially the Z06. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2048 Registered: 2-2001 |
I just toured the Corvette assembly plant in Bowling Green KY. on my way to Indy this past weekend. I was sold on the Vette before but after seeing the actual Chassis without all the body panels, I am more convinced than ever that I made the correct purchase. I have never seen a more over kill design in my career. The chassis and frame rails are massive in size and larger than any I have ever seen, even on cars three times the size of a Corvette. No wonder the body does not flex, it can't due to the size and design. I went through the BMW plant in Greenville and left disappointed. I went through the Corvette plant and came away in awe. If anyone gets a chance to go see excatly what I saw, you can tour the plant Mon-Fri at 9:00AM and 1:00PM without reservation and it's free. The finished cars are even tested three times. They fail them for the least little things too and then start the tests all over again after repairs. No wonder they are so perfect from day one. I now feel as though I am behind the wheel of one of the safest, durable, dependable, powerful and best looking cars in the world. | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Junior Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 181 Registered: 3-2002 |
Corvette is an icon. Let's hope they get it right with the C6. Any rumors? I hear a 6.0 LS2 is in the works while the following years' ZO6 (or other hi po model) will feature either a 6.4L of the same motor or one with a cam less design, or even a twin cam (in block) style motor like XV8 concept.... http://www.autointell.com/News-2001/September-2001/September-2001-2/September-12-01-p9.htm | ||
| Mark Izzo (Tdf355)
Junior Member Username: Tdf355 Post Number: 109 Registered: 3-2002 |
Well spoken Ed and agreed. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2047 Registered: 2-2001 |
I have been a Ferrari fan as long as I can remember and have driven and repaired a bunch of them, but I have to honestly say I have never driven one that I would trade my new C-5 for. If you put passion and loyalty asside and are true to yourself, the Corvette is a benchmark for a lot of companies to shoot for. | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Junior Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 176 Registered: 3-2002 |
Paul... well they "can't" stomp a ZO6... But you know... the car is only as good as the driver... ;) | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 510 Registered: 12-2001 |
Ive seen those lotus' before but didnt know they had balls. Now I know. I never would have guessed they could stomp a Z06 either. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
New member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 34 Registered: 6-2002 |
ive had that pic stored on my computer for awhile now. i really like that car. it was also twin turboed to like 4-500hp. ill see if i can find some more. | ||
| Harlan Mott (Hmott3)
Junior Member Username: Hmott3 Post Number: 201 Registered: 12-2001 |
allan where did you get that picture? I want to see more, many more! | ||
| billy zissis (89tr)
Junior Member Username: 89tr Post Number: 236 Registered: 4-2001 |
Allan how can you be off topic in the off topic section? | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
New member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 33 Registered: 6-2002 |
kind of off topic but check out this 328 koenig. very nice.  | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
New member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 32 Registered: 6-2002 |
heres a picture of mine.  | ||
| billy zissis (89tr)
Junior Member Username: 89tr Post Number: 235 Registered: 4-2001 |
Here is a picture of mine (99 Esprit Sport350)  | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 506 Registered: 12-2001 |
What do these Lotus tt's look like anyway? Anyone have a pic? | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 505 Registered: 12-2001 |
The Prodrive was killing the vettes. SO it blew an oil cooler line. Im sure the vettes days are numbered after Prodrive works out the bugs. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2872 Registered: 5-2001 |
Mark, I have a almost new 550 as a consignment. Don't know if the owner would consider a trade. My consignment fee does not justify me taking in your car as a trade though unless it is priced at wholesale, which you would not be interested in I am sure. www.4Ferrari.com | ||
| Mark Izzo (Tdf355)
Junior Member Username: Tdf355 Post Number: 108 Registered: 3-2002 |
Martin, Ya gotta finish to win!! By the way Chevy was running 2-3 year old equipment. Also, I love the 550, you involved in any deals right now? Might want to do a little swap with the 355 plus some$ if needed. | ||
| billy zissis (89tr)
Junior Member Username: 89tr Post Number: 229 Registered: 4-2001 |
Martin you wouldn't even make it to gas station. After all don't all Lotus fall apart if you close the door a bit too hard or hit a bump? | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2853 Registered: 5-2001 |
So Corvette is so great that the 550 Maranello ProDrive did kick their butt so bad that it looked like the Corvettes were running with the GTS class. LeMans all over again ...just to stir up this controversy again. As for the Lotus where to park? ...at the mechanic in the gas station that you stopped at for refuling while the car would not start again with some british electrical gremlin. Just kidding. I love the Lotus look. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2041 Registered: 2-2001 |
Remember when the Japanese cars weren't so great? I remember when they were non existant here. The Toyopet and the Honda 600 were some of the first, and they were a POS. I remember when a foreign car was a Vauxhaul, MG, Triumph, Simca, VW beetle, Opel or Austin and most of their owners were a little radical. | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Junior Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 165 Registered: 3-2002 |
You guys have just had bad experiences. I'm sure your Italian wonders aren't that reliable either. Shoot, you older folks could probably remember when Japanese cars weren't great... Look at them now... they are like German machines only not as over engineered and cheaper too. | ||
| Mark Izzo (Tdf355)
Junior Member Username: Tdf355 Post Number: 106 Registered: 3-2002 |
I hear ya Allan, Geez! | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
New member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 27 Registered: 6-2002 |
thanks mark, i still have the white SV. love that car. believe me, for 50k, i know the z06 is a bargain. i think though, that id buy a used viper gts, if i had to go american. im not really a fan of american cars since i had a 89 greenwood corvette that gave me loads of problems, including a tranny that locked up on the highway, that the dealer got me to trade on a brand new ZR-1 that was even worse. then i got a Cadillac STS as a driver, and 2 weeks later it blew up. no more american cars for me! sometimes i am tempted to try a viper though. | ||
| Mark Izzo (Tdf355)
Junior Member Username: Tdf355 Post Number: 105 Registered: 3-2002 |
I like that white Lambo SV you had Allan, car was wicked looking. Take the Z06 for a ride anyway, pretty amazing fo less than 50k. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
New member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 25 Registered: 6-2002 |
i dont underestimate the z06, i dont think i can blow one away, i think it is a very close race, i think i can ultimately edge him out though. judging by what happened when i raced the 02 z06 with all the mods on it, im pretty positive. ive also beaten a 12.80 camaro ss, a 1st gen viper rt/10 pretty badly. i raced a 360 modena 2-3 rd gear and pulled on him too. | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member Username: Fred Post Number: 628 Registered: 2-2001 |
Well I would hope not. Nice ride! | ||
| Mark Izzo (Tdf355)
Junior Member Username: Tdf355 Post Number: 104 Registered: 3-2002 |
Nice car Edward! Im seriously considering installing a supercharger or maybe even the Ling. TT setup on my Z06. Guys like Martin dont understand whats its like to grow up as a kid in America seeing your first Corvette and starting to dream from there. Most people in the U.S had a friend or if they were lucky enough a family member who owned one. He says the Corvette has no soul. Ask the Prodrive 550 if the Vette has soul. The Corvette has an American soul, one built on Quality, horsepower and a price that the average man can afford. Its been winning races and American hearts since 1953. I bet Martin hasnt even driven a C5. He may find his 348 a bit "overhyped". | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2034 Registered: 2-2001 |
I am not ashamed to park this anywhere.  | ||
| Mark Izzo (Tdf355)
Junior Member Username: Tdf355 Post Number: 103 Registered: 3-2002 |
Hey Martin- If you can only park Vettes in front of a Motel 6 and Ferraris at the Bal Harbour Sheraton, where do you park Lotus'and how much is the coffee? | ||
| billy zissis (89tr)
Junior Member Username: 89tr Post Number: 227 Registered: 4-2001 |
Noone should underestimate the Z06. The car is simply awesome and the same goes for the regular c5. With a couple of mods those cars are flying. Great cars and they look good too as well. But stock for stock I really would say it all depends on the driver. | ||
| Mark Izzo (Tdf355)
Junior Member Username: Tdf355 Post Number: 102 Registered: 3-2002 |
I agree with you 100% Billy, I just think Allan underestimates the Z06. I was heading back from the beach tonite and we were playing around with a silver TT , nice car. | ||
| billy zissis (89tr)
Junior Member Username: 89tr Post Number: 224 Registered: 4-2001 |
Mark I beat the Z06 with my Lotus. Then again my Lotus isn't stock and neither was the Z06. The only time a Z06 will beat the Lotus is from a standstill because you do not want to leave tranny parts all over the place. What it comes down to is the driver. They are very close matched cars. | ||
| Mark Izzo (Tdf355)
Junior Member Username: Tdf355 Post Number: 101 Registered: 3-2002 |
Allan- I had a 2000 TT, 2001 Z06 (385hp), 2003 Z06 (405hp). Back about ten years ago , I also had a 1985 Lotus Esp. that I drove everyday. I loved that car. The twin turbo is a great car, the Z06 will take it down though in my opinion. Have you ever driven a Z06? Go down the local Chevy dealer and have a little fun, the car will surprise you. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
New member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 15 Registered: 6-2002 |
mark, what year was your lotus? | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
New member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 14 Registered: 6-2002 |
adam, get off the crack. judging by my race the other day, a lotus tt will have no problem with a zo6.i'm going to go see if i can hunt one down today. besides adam, your going to get spanked by a lotus very shortly! lol | ||
| Adam (Eldiablo_viper)
New member Username: Eldiablo_viper Post Number: 26 Registered: 7-2002 |
Lotus TT does not chave a chance with Z06. | ||
| Mark Izzo (Tdf355)
Junior Member Username: Tdf355 Post Number: 100 Registered: 3-2002 |
So your Lotus TT would beat a Z06 stock to stock? Ive had both and I disagree. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
New member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 7 Registered: 6-2002 |
racer 001, im a member on the z06 board, and ive noticed that most stock z06's are running high 12's and low 13's. the fastest times posted are not done with street tires. i raced a z06 in my 2000 lotus tt the other day, he beat me by 2 car lengths. at first i was upset, but then i found out he had headers, exhaust, intake, computer, and 100 octane gas. if it just wasnt 110 degrees outside, it would of been very close. if he were stock, he'd of lost, easily. the corvette is not that fast, a viper is much faster. | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Junior Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 157 Registered: 3-2002 |
A ZO6 has been tested to get 3.85 in the 0-60. :D Sweetness. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2828 Registered: 5-2001 |
...hope to meet you in Homestead ! | ||
| Mark Izzo (Tdf355)
Junior Member Username: Tdf355 Post Number: 99 Registered: 3-2002 |
I sent you a email Martin | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2822 Registered: 5-2001 |
Mark, what part of FL are you in? Coming to the Miami GP? Coming to the FOC Homestead race in October? First beer in on me | ||
| Andre Vieira (Goggles_pisano)
New member Username: Goggles_pisano Post Number: 48 Registered: 5-2002 |
A few points here while I jump into the fray here: 1. James is correct about Mr. Provost. The man's reputation precedes him. His assaults against the ignorant ass-clowns across the internet are legendary. 2. The best way to end this argument would be at the OTC...besides, I am hoping the Motorsport Elise has better luck next year--that thing's a sleeper! 3. Peter's stats are very informative as well, though I'd be interested to know how the above mentioned cars would do at the Nordeschliefe. 4. Speaking of Mantorp Park and the Camaro Cup, has anyone ever tried the PC game Swedish Touring Car Championship 2? Highly reccomended. My favourite track is Anderstop. 5. This argument is silly now. Rob's original point was that the C5/Z06 should get more respect, not just as a bang-for-the-buck sportscar but one that can hang with all but the most exotic machinery. | ||
| Mark Izzo (Tdf355)
Junior Member Username: Tdf355 Post Number: 98 Registered: 3-2002 |
See ya Martin, | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2821 Registered: 5-2001 |
I am 33 and a 11 year Ferrari veteran. read your post again and tell me that THAT did not sound snobish. but I can read between the lines and see what you mean, so its okay. | ||
| Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Member Username: Corsa Post Number: 255 Registered: 4-2001 |
Nice view over Mantorp, Rob. The down-right part with the long straights is not used since there are some nice rocks at the end of the long straight... More lap times from Mantorp. They are not the best time, more like an indication. LAP TIMES MANTORP PARK RACING CARS F2 Johnny Cecotto 1.11.69 (154 km/h) GTR (=FIA GT) Viper GTS/R 1.17.95 STCC Nissan 1.18.78 Formel Ford/Zetec van Diemen RF2000 1.21.09 MC 600 Yamaha R6 600 1.22.28 GTR (FIA N-GT) Ferrari 360 Modena 1.23.86 Porsche Cup klass 1 Porsche 911 Cup 1.27.79 Camaro Cup Chevrolet Camaro 1.28.28 Porsche Cup klass 2 Porsche 968 1.31.16 Modsport Alfa Romeo GTV6 1.31 Roadsport B Alfa Romeo Giulia 1.32 Raodsport B Porsche 924 turbo 1.33.41 JTCC Volvo S40 1.36.96 Roadsport C Alfa Romeo Alfetta GTV 1.38.08 Roadsport C Caterham 7 1.38.11 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Pelles 1.39.15 Porsche Cup klass 3 Porsche 968 1.44.96 I doing 1.42 (with very safe braking) at a power track like Mantorp and a professional racing driver as Jan Nilsson (He ended up second in the Swedish Touring Car Championship this year) actually drive a C5 at 1.37. Thats 5 sec faster which probably Jan Nilsson are compared with me in the same car. I do also know that a driver with the same track experience that I have drive his 355 at about 1.40, thats 6 seconds of the pace of Jan Nilsson. I have done the springs, shocks and the most important of it all the wheel alignment. I have a very good communication with the road and a perfect balance. The thing is that you can have it in all Ferraris if you forget the default alignment and go for something more performancelike. Ciao Peter | ||
| Mark Izzo (Tdf355)
Junior Member Username: Tdf355 Post Number: 97 Registered: 3-2002 |
Me neither Tom!! | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1336 Registered: 9-2001 |
what is funny is I have stayed in motel 6 but I would not park my ferrari outside of it, I would probably park my vette outside of it though (if I had one). then again I prob would not park my ferrari outside the sheraton either | ||
| Mark Izzo (Tdf355)
Junior Member Username: Tdf355 Post Number: 96 Registered: 3-2002 |
Martin- Im sure we will meet someday. If I was worried about losing money, I sure wouldnt have bought a 355!! Ive been a Ferrari owner for 10 years(Im 34) so I more than understand issues. Ive also been a two time Lotus(2000 Twin Turbo recently) 4 time Benz owner, 7 time Corvette owner(two Z06) Two time Porsche owner and have slept in a Motel 6 at least 5 times. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2158 Registered: 12-2000 |
True, but my simple statement "The Z06 deserves more respect in the company of Vipers, Porsche, and Ferrari" is infallible... Bring it on! | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 283 Registered: 7-2001 |
If this 'OTC Tour' poster is who I think it is (Brian Provost), then be very carefull what you say. I have seen him in action on various other car forums He will find all the fallacies in your posts and then humiliate you in front of everyone. It really is a work of art when he does it!!!!!! In fact, I think I have some of his posts saved on my computer from a few years ago. THey always give me a good laugh when I read them. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2818 Registered: 5-2001 |
Mark, yopu certainly misunderstood my comment. It was directed mainly to those that think the Ferrari is not worth the extra money and the extra moneys when it comes to the "expensive" repairs. If you can swing the car you have to swing the repairs and not worry about it. We have some chatters that have airplanes, some have private jets. These guys know what preventive maintenance is all about and how costly it is. A Ferrari is more than how fast yo can get from 0-60 or 60 to 100 of how many Gs you can pull in a tight corner. Those that have the financial means of buying a Ferrari know that there is more. The Corvette may be faster on the straight or where-ever, but it will never satisfy you like a Ferrari. As for your comment: "By the way a 348 is a low end car, one of the worst Ferraris ever built. " too bad that your 355 is made mostly of 348 parts. I guess that would make it the 2nd worst car Ferrari ever built? Maybe you should start driving your 355 Spider daily instead of buying a Corvette as a daily. ...then you may just be grumpy because you lost $30,000 since the begining of the year in value on your car and know that by the end of 2002 you will be another $10K in the hole. Hey, you could have added another "low end Ferrari" to your collection and/or added the Corvette for free! Mark, I hoe we meet one day and you see in person how way off base you were with your assumptions. | ||
| Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Member Username: Corsa Post Number: 254 Registered: 4-2001 |
I talked with a friend yesterday about this thread. Suddenly he laughs and says "That reminds me of a race weekend in the early 90th when the Camaro Cup racers had the same lap times as in the Lady Opel Cup [Opel Corsas]". Ciao Peter | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2157 Registered: 12-2000 |
Peter makes some good points. Especially about braking stats, 100 to 60 10 times over would be a better judge. I think G's is still a good judge because that tells you how much lateral force you can have without the car breaking loose. Isn't that the limit you want to approach through the turns? Maybe slaom is a better judge then? ...Z06 does it 2-3 mph faster than the Viper. Here's an aerial view of Mantorp Park in Sweden. Looks like some technical sections, but mainly straight aways. Were all cars running on the same tire? No way a 328 runs faster laps than the C5 stock to stock. My 110 HP 1st gen Rx7 runs faster laps than my 328. Although the Rx7 is on 40 rating DOT tires and the 328 on 240 rating.  | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1331 Registered: 9-2001 |
I hear you - I certainly respect your view. Regards Tom | ||
| Mark Izzo (Tdf355)
Junior Member Username: Tdf355 Post Number: 95 Registered: 3-2002 |
You are right Tom but there are more than a few friends sitting around here. Views like Martin's are not well received here in America. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1329 Registered: 9-2001 |
Mark I guess what I am trying to say is over the year I have learned Martin likes to joke around and make some wild statements. When put in email or on line form they can come across as snobby or rude. When ever I see comments like this I put them in the context of friends sitting around having some beers joking around and they don't seem so bad or bad enough to get myslef upset about. | ||
| Mark Izzo (Tdf355)
Junior Member Username: Tdf355 Post Number: 94 Registered: 3-2002 |
Whatever Tom. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1328 Registered: 9-2001 |
you guys take martin way too seriously | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1976 Registered: 2-2001 |
Narrow minded? When a stock 328 outruns a C-5 is when Hell will freeze over. My mind nor anyone elses on this board will never be that narrow. I am glad they didn't test a Yugo with it, I guess it would have beat the Vette too. Give me a break! | ||
| Mark Izzo (Tdf355)
Junior Member Username: Tdf355 Post Number: 93 Registered: 3-2002 |
You're right Spawnz, Martin really pissed me off with his comments. The 348 is a respectable Ferrari by all means, he just acts like he owns something rare that puts him in a different class of people due to ownership. Get a grip. | ||
| Roel de Fouw (Spawnz)
New member Username: Spawnz Post Number: 25 Registered: 6-2002 |
Mark Izzo, What's up with the 348 bashing ? I recon you've never been in one, cause your comments seem to be rather shallow. first you go: "By the way a 348 is a low end car, one of the worst Ferraris ever built." 348 a low end car? I'm sorry but do I need to remind you this car is from 1989? 13 years old ...and I feel that even by todays standards its anything but a slow car. "low end" seems a bit out of place. It seems that martin's hotel comment got you somewhat anoyed but thats no reason to start degrading a ferrari. a few posts later: "sitting in his 348 hoping to attact some attention from Money grubbing Miami girls. Thats all a 348 is good for anyway." Come on now, again you find it necessary to claim how bad of a car the 348 is. Why? I ask you. It seems you're kind of irritated with martin, and therefore giving the ferrari the full load. Nothing wrong with disagreeing on the comment martin made. But instead of taking it out on the car, try proving his claims wrong instead. No hard feelings towards you afcourse. But on a ferrari enthusiast's website I feel its wrong to treat any ferrari in this manner. | ||
| Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Member Username: Corsa Post Number: 253 Registered: 4-2001 |
This is one of the most narrow-minded discussions I�ve seen on the board. You are discussing 0-60 (which only occur once, when driving away or at the start i.e. totally unimportant; 60-0 which also are totally unimportant unless an elk suddenly appears; G�s-on skid pad is not a good handling value, it shows only one thing roundabout performance. What it�s all about is 60-120 times since it�s in that register you use the car, 10 times 120-60 braking to see how consistent the brakes are and if possible during slight turning to find out the cars balance. The handling in the corners is much better property than G-figures because it demonstrates the balance of the car in real life. All of this is comprised in the one and only figure that matters � LAP TIMES. Therefore it is very funny and unfortunately tragic that not any of the posts have commented the Lap times at Mantorp I�ve posted early in this thread, but I�ll do it again. Because some of the truth of your discussion is there PRODUCTION CARS Driver: Jan �Flash� Nilsson, Professional racing driver Track: Mantorp Park Sweden, same day. Date: I think it was 2000. Mantorp is a track that favours power. It�s not a handling track. Chrysler Viper GTS 1.31.61 (120 km/h) Lamborghini Diablo VT 1.31.90 Ferrari F355 F1 Berlinetta 1.33.73 Porsche 911 Carrera Cup 1.35.42 BMW M Coupe 1.35.64 Maserati 3200 GT 1.36.30 Chevrolet Corvette C5 1.37.21 Jaguar XKR 1.39.72 My 328 GTB �88 not driven on the limit with old brake fluid, as "Flash" was doing. 1.42 New fluid, new confidence, new brake points, about 1.41.00 which equals M3�s (321 bhp) driven by drivers with similar track experience as I have. Normally track experienced drivers are 5-6 seconds slower than "Flash" in the same car. I suppose I am as well. You do the counting. More counting to do. Compare with this set of times at another track with same racing driver and day. Production Cars Thed Bj�rk, Professional racing driver Lamborghini Diablo VT 0.56.10 Nissan Skyline 0.58.88 BMW M5 0.59.02 Maserati 3200 GT 0.00.12 BMW Z3 Coupe 2.8 0.01.60 Amateur driver (in an already sold car (Be careful!!!) Ferrari 360 Challenge 0.56.95 With the Lamborghini Diablo VT and the Maserati 3200 GT as references and looking for the relative difference in lap times at the Danish track and translating it to Mantorp Park and considering the time loss for amateur drivers we get this and final list. Sorry but this is truth so far on a power track. Ferrari 360 Challenge Chrysler Viper GTS Lamborghini Diablo VT Ferrari F355 F1 Berlinetta Nissan Skyline Porsche 911 Carrera Cup BMW M5 BMW M Coupe Ferrari 328 GTB �88 (not bad for a 30 year old design) Maserati 3200 GT Chevrolet Corvette C5 BMW Z3 Coupe 2.8 Jaguar XKR What you now have to do is to try to find out how much faster/slower some of the Corvettes are compared to the C5 on a power track. Add to that the fact that 550's are faster than Vipers at the ring. Ciao Peter | ||
| Kevin Marcus (Rumordude)
Junior Member Username: Rumordude Post Number: 65 Registered: 9-2001 |
Well, I have a Z06, which I have now made into my daily driver (after selling my renntech'd sl600 - ho hum!). For 'everyday' driving, I havent had a better experience. And, like I said earlier, the "cost per fun" is huge. The thing I dislike the most is that the pedals are really soft though. I have a gtech/pro accelerometer (which gave me a 5.4 0-60 in the aforementioned sl). I have not yet done any tests with the '06 which is supposed to do 4.1s. I agree the real test of a cars power (which typically helps factor out the gearing) is a 60-100 (hence the lotus elise comment earlier). Forget the 360 challenge - this isnt a road car. But the 360gt is. My guess is that it's do much better on a road course but probably not in a drag. One other interesting thing about the vette is that the tail is very light. In fact, given a small bump, you can often get the car to turn very quickly because the back will slip out while you're going around the turn. My guess is that is why they really do turn in great lap times on road courses... | ||
| A.Tonokaboni (Senna1994)
New member Username: Senna1994 Post Number: 5 Registered: 9-2002 |
I wonder how a 360 Challenge car would do against the Viper? | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2156 Registered: 12-2000 |
Your numbers are good? At least admit your G numbers on the Z06 are way off base... that's obvious. I've had enough with mag stats. How about driving ability? I bet pink slips I can out lap your Viper with my 110 hp 1st gen RX7. Of course I don't have anything to loose. LOL. You have a great sports car. | ||
| Adam (Eldiablo_viper)
New member Username: Eldiablo_viper Post Number: 23 Registered: 7-2002 |
Rob, for performance ACR has only K&N air intake VS stock GTS (10HP at the motor). For cornering it has stiffer suspension, BBS wheels and 5 point harness. So my numbers are good just you don't know what you are talking about. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Junior Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 210 Registered: 1-2002 |
arlie: Paul Mumford can DRIVE; shared the track w/ the man, and can tell you from experience, the guys is fast. so, as far as using his times as a baseline, by all measure; they are valid. as far as the zo6/viper debate, both are great cars to their respective enthusiasts, and both surely need a bit of 'work' to get right for anyone that does more than 'boulevard pimp'. otctour: i think we met at thunderhill, i was there w/ the black integra type r, and the porsche gt2 evo cup car-red-, if your the same person you had your white porsche out? is that you? | ||
| Kungfool (Kungfool)
New member Username: Kungfool Post Number: 1 Registered: 9-2002 |
So many Viper guys here... wow! Cheers Ferrari dudes!!! | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2154 Registered: 12-2000 |
LOL Horsefly. OTC Tour, all true statements, if you won't give me anything else, I just want people to respect the Z06 for what it is, the cheapest car out there (by far!) that can hold it's own against Vipers, Ferraris, and Porsches. Would I ever own one? no. Hey, I did a 1:34 at MSR with a 100% stock 1986 328 GTS on 260 tread rating tires. LOL. He only had me by 15 seconds. ;0 1:19 is a great time, since Bobby Archer can only do 1:15's in a race prepared Viper and he's the best Viper driver in the country right now. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Junior Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 231 Registered: 5-2002 |
Since 99 percent of people can't begin to drive these performance cars anywhere near their stock potential, much less an improved version, the question is really which vehicle a person desires to be remembered as having wrapped around a tree or flown over a cliff in. Years from now, do you want people to say, "I remember way back in 2002 when our buddy Joe bought the farm when he wrapped his Subaru around a telephone pole."? Or would old Joe prefer, " They say Joe was doing over 200 MPH when his Corvette went airborne!" That's more like it! | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1968 Registered: 2-2001 |
Unless anyone actually owns a Corvette, it would be hard to give an honest review of a Corvette. Once you start modifying a car then it becomes something else other than it's original designed in appearance and performance. There is no way to compare modified cars. This thread was asked for an honest review of a Corvette not a flaming comparison of all race cars with no possible answer. | ||
| OTC Tour (Otchallenge)
New member Username: Otchallenge Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2001 |
With all due respect... The Z06 will brake hard once...maybe even a handful of times...and then you're SOL. The Porsche will do it all day long. There's a reason you see "Big Reds" on a bunch of cars other than P-cars. The Viper brakes really aren't that bad after you ditch the shitty stock pads and treat it to some fluid not retailed by Campbell's Soup. But it's still not going to out brake the other two. With respect to G numbers...that's a pretty subjective rating of a cars handling. Some cars are plagued by fairly mediocre tires from the factory. The Z06's Goodyears are probably the grippiest street tire out there. The Michelin Pilot Sports are not. Put them all on same tire (Hoosiers) and my money is on the Viper every time. The reason the Vipers put up the fastest lap times have nothing to do with subjective magazine dork numbers. They just come out of corners absolutely stronger than any other car. The harder you come out of the corner, the longer you accelerate and coupled with the fact that the Viper is the fastest of all them...walla!...it usually wins. Rob, you're from Texas. Paul Mumford drove his old stock '98 GTS to a 1:19 at Motorsports Ranch...on 9cyl, no less. He's took the same car to a 1:48 at TWS. No Z06 is going to do that. I always love hearing people bash the Viper handling. It's funny to watch them hop in one. They are all over the pedals like the car was a '89 Ford Escort. The Viper is much like a Formula car in that you have to be slow on the pedals. A whole lotta engine braking and lots of power to weight. Not rocket science, but it usually bites most of these "fast" guys in the ass when they hop in one and don't adapt. Ask me how I know! If there is a stock F355 who honestly thinks they can compete with stock Vipers, I will make it very worth their while at OTC. Contact me offline. | ||
| Mark Izzo (Tdf355)
Junior Member Username: Tdf355 Post Number: 92 Registered: 3-2002 |
More importantly, which one looks better out in front of the local Starbucks? | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
New member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 6 Registered: 6-2002 |
hey chuck, you should be happy, im here sticking up for your car, the viper. be happy, wont see it often!lol | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
New member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 5 Registered: 6-2002 |
Thats right chucky, im here also! lol if i had to guess, in flat out braking, on stock brakes: 1. porsche 911 turbo 2. corvette z06 3. viper 4. ferrari 355 id probobly put the viper and 355 at a tie. handling between the top 3 would be very close, definately edging the ferrari. the viper would have an edge on the track with explosive out of the turns power, while the porsche would have the benefit of later braking into the turns. alot also depends on the track, anything with a good amount of straightline speed with also favor the porsche and the viper, while a closer, tighter track would have the vette right there with them. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2153 Registered: 12-2000 |
OK, let's go back to the basics, who on here thinks the Viper, 355, or 911 brake quicker or pull more G's than the Z06? | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2152 Registered: 12-2000 |
Adam, you know dang well your numbers are full of crap, first of all, that's the ACR Viper, and secondly, everyone knows the Z06 is one of the first production cars to pull over 1.00 G's. Now what were you saying about the brakes? ABS going to save you 30 feet? | ||
| Chuck Babel (Chuck_98_rt10)
Junior Member Username: Chuck_98_rt10 Post Number: 63 Registered: 5-2002 |
Oh no, AllanLambo now??? Somebody start a Lamborghini board for this guy. "I hope you were not talking about a Supra" THERE!!! He said it! Red5 used the "S" word. Grounds for banning isn't it??? My sincerest appologies to the Ferrari owners on this board. I never meant to bring my trashy friends over here. | ||
| Mark Izzo (Tdf355)
Junior Member Username: Tdf355 Post Number: 89 Registered: 3-2002 |
Matt- Martin said he saw you doing burnouts in front of the Motel 6. He was accross the street drinking $5.00 coffee sitting in his 348 hoping to attact some attention from Money grubbing Miami girls. Thats all a 348 is good for anyway. | ||
| Chuck Babel (Chuck_98_rt10)
Junior Member Username: Chuck_98_rt10 Post Number: 62 Registered: 5-2002 |
Mag test...they never seem to add up. I suppose if you look long enough you can find one to validate any argument. But just for kicks, here�s one that shows the Viper running a 12.08 1/4 and a 4.06 0-60. http://popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars_trucks/1999/7/comparison_test_13_quickest_cars/print.phtml And low 12s are common with Vipers. I�ve been to many dragstrips and seen it. For what it�s worth, an auto rag never persuaded me to buy a car. If it had any influence at all I would�ve never bought a Viper, since their reviews are always "sure it's fast, but it doesn't have a cupholder - like the Corvette" or "why all the brutal speed? What the Viper really needs is a really neato heads up display - like the Corvette" or "why 500ft-lbs of torque? I'd rather have a dead pedal - like the Corvette." It's no wonder the Corvette is a distant second with a crowd like that to please. What matters most to me is what I�ve seen at the track. And the Viper has consistent .4 faster 1/4 times than the Z06. Road courses are considerably more difficult to evaluate because the driver makes all the difference, but the only time a Vette ever passed me was when I was on a cool down lap. | ||
| Matt (Red5)
New member Username: Red5 Post Number: 3 Registered: 9-2002 |
We all strive to perfect our skills. And we are all into racing. Would I LOVE to race in a ferrari? Yes. Would I like to race against one.. Sure. " His secret passion is to someday own a Su..., a Sup..., I can't even say it." Chuck, Im not sure I know what your talking about. I hope you were not talking about a Supra. Thats not my cup of tea. Perhaps you were talking about a Supercharged Corvette.. Well, Ive been there and done that. AHHH, I know, A Superb Car. Chuck, thats why I bought the vette. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
New member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 4 Registered: 6-2002 |
hey you guys forgot the lambo diablo! according to road and track the 6.0 hands the ferrari f50 its ass in all areas! diablo ferrari f50 0-60=3.6 sec 0-60=3.6 1/4 [email protected] 1/4= 12.1 sec skidpad 0.99g n/a 60-0= 120ft 60-0=136ft 80-0=203 ft 80-0=213ft slalom sp=66.4 slalom sp= 66.1 magazine numbers mean nothing. i can assure you that a viper will hand the ferrari 355 its ass in almost every area. 0-60 is one thing, look at 0-100mph, where the times are seperated by seconds, not tenths. | ||
| Adam (Eldiablo_viper)
New member Username: Eldiablo_viper Post Number: 22 Registered: 7-2002 |
Billy, that Yugo looks like it is faster than your Lotus LOL | ||
| billy zissis (89tr)
Junior Member Username: 89tr Post Number: 218 Registered: 4-2001 |
1979 Yugo 0-60 5.2 minutes 0-100 NA cant reach that high 0-150 less than 10 sec if pushed off a 500ft cliff 70-0 550 ft skidpad NA-off the charts Now we can compare apples to apples LOL | ||
| Mark Izzo (Tdf355)
Junior Member Username: Tdf355 Post Number: 88 Registered: 3-2002 |
Ferrari= Soul Corvette/Viper= Guts Both are great. American cars are like us(Americans)...Loud, unrefined and WORLDBEATING. God Bless America( and a good Motel 6) | ||
| Mark Izzo (Tdf355)
Junior Member Username: Tdf355 Post Number: 87 Registered: 3-2002 |
Martin- That comment about hotels and cars was terrible. Comments like that are a reason Ferrari owners are looked at like snobs. By the way a 348 is a low end car, one of the worst Ferraris ever built. | ||
| Adam (Eldiablo_viper)
New member Username: Eldiablo_viper Post Number: 21 Registered: 7-2002 |
Car & Driver 2001 test annual 2000 Viper GTS ACR (NO ABS) 0-60 4.3 0-100 9.6 0-150 24.0 70-0 186ft skidpad 0.96 lap time 1:34.9 2001 Z06 0-60 4.5 0-100 10.4 0-150 27.6 70-0 152ft skidpad 0.93 lap time 1:36.3 Any questions? | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2151 Registered: 12-2000 |
Yes, I found a 1996 GTS with a .96 G rating, which is better than I thought, but the only later model one I found that high is the ACR with .98. Here's some other stats, I didn't find any braking stats yet. I'm thinking I can start opening my mouth up even more, looks like Viper has some competition in straight line too! 2000 Viper RT/10, 4.3 0-60, 12.3 1/4, NA G's 1998 355 F1, 4.6 0-60, 13.0 1/4, 0.97 G's 2000 360, 4.3 0-60, 12.8 1/4, NA G's 2002 575, 4.25 0-60, 12.3 1/4, NA G's 2001 Z06, 4.2 0-60, 12.6 1/4, 1.00 G's 1999 911 C4, 5.0 0-60, 13.5 1/4, 0.95 G's 2000 911 Turbo, 3.6 0-60, 11.9 1/4, NA G's 1997 Lotus Esprit, 4.4 0-60, 13.0 1/4, 0.90 G's Here's the complete list, a good site, but I wish they had braking stats... http://www.fantasycars.com/derek/list.html | ||
| Chuck Babel (Chuck_98_rt10)
Junior Member Username: Chuck_98_rt10 Post Number: 61 Registered: 5-2002 |
"cute cars" LOL Ban Red5!!! Ban him quick! Don't let this cancer cripple this board like it has the Viper board. His secret passion is to someday own a Su..., a Sup..., I can't even say it. | ||
| Harlan Mott (Hmott3)
Junior Member Username: Hmott3 Post Number: 188 Registered: 12-2001 |
Yes that is a typo the viper should be a .97g skid pad. | ||
| Adam (Eldiablo_viper)
New member Username: Eldiablo_viper Post Number: 20 Registered: 7-2002 |
Matt, I just wonder who won One Lap of America...? I think that it was a Viper. Also for all of those 30 Vettes to one Viper ratio there is one or two that have a better driver. | ||
| Matt (Red5)
New member Username: Red5 Post Number: 2 Registered: 9-2002 |
Old Chuck is just upset about the truth. The truth of the matter is that the corvettes beat the vipers at most things. Yes, its true that Im stuck here in scca solo II stuff due to my location and other interests but that doesn't take away the truth. Don't get me wrong Chuck. The vipers are cute cars and all and they even come with big technologically challenged motors. But they just can't compete against corvettes anymore. Not when racing against people who want to race. http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/nationals/2002/results/ | ||
| Adam (Eldiablo_viper)
New member Username: Eldiablo_viper Post Number: 19 Registered: 7-2002 |
Rob, there was no Z06 in 99 plus Viper did not have ABS before 01. .90 on a Viper is wrong. It should be .97 or better. This is MBW M3 rating hahha | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2150 Registered: 12-2000 |
Harlan, YES YES YES, those are the quantitative numbers I've been trying to get through everyone this entire thread! Thanks! I'll post more info if I can find it. The 355 has a 0-60 of 4.5, but I can't find the 60-0 and G numbers, which are mainly what I'm talking about. | ||
| Chuck Babel (Chuck_98_rt10)
Junior Member Username: Chuck_98_rt10 Post Number: 59 Registered: 5-2002 |
Oh great Red5. It's bad enough I have to put up with you on the Viper board, now you're over here???!!! Poor Red, has to settle for parking lots and hopes for a third gear configuration. Go eat some cones and let the real racers discuss actual TRACK events. | ||
| Harlan Mott (Hmott3)
Junior Member Username: Hmott3 Post Number: 187 Registered: 12-2001 |
I agree you can't keep talking about modifications, none. We are not talking about your viper vs some vette, or some 355. If you take away stock then the sky is the limit and I'm going to guess that this corvette "http://www.motortrend.com/june02/vette/1.html" with a 0-60 of 1.97 seconds will win. You must keep to stock vs stock to have an real comparison. If you are not talking stock vs stock, then they must have the same modifications (no cats, k&n) and those numbers are harder to get. I also don't think you can show "track times" to compair two cars, we all know drivers skill makes all the difference. Unless the track times are same day, same driver they don't really mean much about the car itself. If you look at the 0-60, 60-0, and skid pad of the 355 (why the 355 when its a 2002 viper I'm not sure) and the z06 you'll find they all stay alright with the vipers 0-60 and kill it 60-0 and skid pad g's. z06: 60-0 111ft 1.01g skid pad viper gts: 60-0 125ft 0.90g skid pad I couldn't find the f355 numbers but I'm sure its better than both in 0-60 and skid pad. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2149 Registered: 12-2000 |
Yes, Adam and Tenney, the factory support is a big key. I think we should compare 2002 models to 2002 models or 1999 to 1999. I'll post all the data I can find though. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 932 Registered: 8-2001 |
I think it's the ORECA team (French). The Vettes and Vipers are pretty much factory-backed racers with a lot of development and money poured into them. The Ferraris were all privateer efforts. The factory 360GT was not raced until Ferrari of Washington got the first one and used it in the Grand-Am series back in June. The car won that race at Watkins Glen. So far, they've won 5 in a row and the car's been very reliable. With more development, I believe they have a chance to take Le Mans next year. | ||
| Chuck Babel (Chuck_98_rt10)
Junior Member Username: Chuck_98_rt10 Post Number: 58 Registered: 5-2002 |
My 98 RT/10 dyno'd at 426rwhp with K&N filters, smooth intake tubes and rear muffler deleted. Pretty standard upgrades and account for about 20hp. The worst thing about Vipers isn't the brakes, it's the horrible sound of a stock Viper exhaust. Yuk. I'll be at the Ferrari track day in Oct at Homestead and believe me, I aint gonna talk no trash. The best drivers will be leading the pack, and I aint the best, no matter what I'm drivin'. Getting back on topic, I thought this was a trash Vettes thread! | ||
| Adam (Eldiablo_viper)
New member Username: Eldiablo_viper Post Number: 18 Registered: 7-2002 |
Rob, you are right, the Vettes are killing us. However the factory does not support the Viper team. When they were the Vettes were slower and Viper won every race. I can post some data too but the argument is over Z06 and 355, not 360. I belive that 360 should handle as good as Viper, have better brakes and be slower 0-60 or 0-100. Also make sure to find numbers on 01/02 Vipers which have ABS. | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 238 Registered: 2-2001 |
Rob, not delivering facts at L. Wayne levels here, but fairly sure that the Vipers dominated when factory supported. Chrysler dropped out to go NASCAR racing. Now that the Dodges are limited to privateer efforts, the factory Chevy's have the upper hand. | ||
| Matt (Red5)
New member Username: Red5 Post Number: 1 Registered: 9-2002 |
Of the Italian cars I have owned, the one thing they didn't lack on was Soul. Driving them was a nice experience. The Italians seem to plenty of talent in their abilities to design incredible cars. But when it comes time to race... And build a car for racing.. The Corvette seems to be the best choice. Its an incredible design, tough and fast. You can rebuild them quickly you need to and you can blow the doors off the vipers with them. | ||
| OTC Tour (Otchallenge)
New member Username: Otchallenge Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2001 |
We set up an event to kill most of this Monday Morning Quarterbacking. I don't want to interject too much other than saying Vipers have historically gone scoreboard on everyone when there is a clock running. If there are any other Ferrari owners who want to change this, I'm sure Amir wouldn't mind the help. www.opentrackchallenge.com BP Director, OTC | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2147 Registered: 12-2000 |
Adam, as soon as I go home I'll post the braking and G numbers for the Viper, Z06, and 360. Frank, a Viper will run away from a 355, no argument here, it's a truck engine and does great until having to slow down and make that turn. Everyone, keep modified or race cars out of this! I know I started it with the SCCA T1 reference, but that is "mostly" a stock prepared class. Frank, ORCA (sp?) did very well with the Vipers until the C5's came along and have dominated GTS road racing the past several years. Now who's your daddy? ...and don't say the Saleen. That's a race prepared car that can run on the street, not a street car prepared for the race track. | ||
| Toby T (Tobyt)
New member Username: Tobyt Post Number: 45 Registered: 3-2002 |
Vipers are tough to beat folks. At any price. Those HP #'s are right on too. | ||
| Adam (Eldiablo_viper)
New member Username: Eldiablo_viper Post Number: 17 Registered: 7-2002 |
Ernesto, Vipers are rated at 450 and 460 ACR from the factory. However they are underrated. My car (02 GTS) with K&N (which makes it like ACR) dynoed 430RWHP and 468RWTQ. After I took out the cats and upgraded the comuter ($500 MOD)I'm (on a 100deg day) 437RWHP and 480RWTQ. On a colder day I should easy go over 440HP. I'm not saying that I'm a F1 driver but can hold my own in my group. it would be a lot of fun if there were more Ferrari guys going to the track events. The Tracquest one is fun since there is so many other cars (mostly Porsches) | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1354 Registered: 9-2001 |
A bone stock Viper will run away from a 355 like a Muslim from Bush! Like it or not the Viper has raised the bar for performance cars including those from Italy. The Viper may not be refined, but it is a very fast car. The privateer Viper team won at Lemans when the privateer Ferrari team couldn't even finish ! | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 648 Registered: 2-2001 |
you car dynoes 430rwhp stock? So it has 500hp at the crank stock? Wow... Never knew Vipers came with that much hp from the factory. I thought they had around 450 or so, and the new Viper has 500. Anyhow, enjoy your Viper. Dont be surprised to see a few 355's in good hands pass you by. Ernesto | ||
| Adam (Eldiablo_viper)
New member Username: Eldiablo_viper Post Number: 16 Registered: 7-2002 |
Toby, that would be great!!! There might be one Lambo VT 97. Last time we had 2 550's but they were in a slow group (slow driver). If anybody want more info on Watkins Glen event got to: http://www.tracquest.com/Events/wg200210.htm I'm driving up with few Vette/Viper guys from NYC. | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 237 Registered: 2-2001 |
No expert here, but seem to find that Vipers have a tendency to fare better at track events than they do on the internet or in magazines. | ||
| Toby T (Tobyt)
New member Username: Tobyt Post Number: 44 Registered: 3-2002 |
Adam, it looks like you have your hands full. I hope none of the F40 or F50 drivers come around looking for a few hot laps at the Glen. | ||
| Adam (Eldiablo_viper)
New member Username: Eldiablo_viper Post Number: 15 Registered: 7-2002 |
Ernesto, I have only upgraded brakes, computer and have no cats. My car stock was 430RWHP. The brakes were only done 2 days ago. I know that I'm the outsider but give me a break. I'm just pointing out that many statements made about Vipers here are not true. Some people can't take it so they find a way to make me go away. Soon I might be banned for saying that the Viper can outhadle Z06 and 355. All I'm saying is show me the data that supports your point, if not then don't speak if you don't know. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Junior Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 229 Registered: 5-2002 |
Speaking of GM financing, what's up with their zero per cent financing? Because the economy is down and they need to sell some cars, they act like nice guys and give you a loan for free. But when the economy is good and they are naturally making more profit anyway, they needlessly STICK IT TO YOU with high percentage financing charges. Amazing how much nicer people and corporations can be when their stomach is growling from hunger. Too bad that nice attitude fades when times are good. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 647 Registered: 2-2001 |
OK, your Viper is faster than a 355 after you have upgraded the brakes, engine, suspension, and God knows what else. Nice comparison. I would like to see you keep up with a 355 Challenge then, upgraded to 400hp. Ernesto | ||
| Adam (Eldiablo_viper)
New member Username: Eldiablo_viper Post Number: 14 Registered: 7-2002 |
Rob...feel bad, OK F1 can beat a Viper haha The statment that you made about Vipers: "Vipers don't turn and brake well compared to a 355 or Z06." is not true. Who gave you this data. I would like to know. Was this review done by a 16 year old kid? | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2146 Registered: 12-2000 |
Adam, can't you keep a straight comparison! I'm through with this. Michael Schumacher in his F1 will stomp your Viper. You suck! | ||
| Adam (Eldiablo_viper)
New member Username: Eldiablo_viper Post Number: 13 Registered: 7-2002 |
Allan and all. Yes it was got but my car was hot too. Now I have 437RWHP and 480RWTQ. I know Billy with his Lotus and respect him. We'll have one more race, maybe this Sun. My comments were made to Kennys post about 500HP Lotus killing 700HP Viper. Supra guy, bring your car to Watkins Glen in Oct and we'll see if you can kill 500HP Viper with your 700HP Supra. Rob, get your fax strait. Vipers outturn 355 and Z06. Brakes are not that great but I upgraded to Stoptech and can stop faster now than 911TT. I can say about the 355 brakes but Corvette is not that much better. If you take it to the track you'll find out that they are for street use. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
New member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 3 Registered: 6-2002 |
eldiablo, the lotus you raced does not have 500hp, and beating him by 1 car length isnt exactly killing him. especially if you raced in high heat. a cool night and it would be different story. | ||
| Harlan Mott (Hmott3)
Junior Member Username: Hmott3 Post Number: 186 Registered: 12-2001 |
Adam, Horse power isn't everything, and I highly doubt your viper (or any other stock viper) would eat a sport 350 up. As a matter of fact they should run very close to the same. The 2002 Viper GTS has .130 bhp/lb and the 1999 sport 350 has .135 bhp/lb. So as you can see the Esprit actually has a higher horsepower to weight ratio. The Lotus is over 1000lbs lighter than the Viper with only 100 hp less stock. When you increase the viper to an awe inspiring 700hp and the Esprit to slighter over the stock viper to 500hp you still end up with .2 and .19 bhp/lb ratios. So it looks like the Lotus can probably hold its own in a straight line and probably out brake and out turn a viper at every bend. Oh I forgot to mention the Lotus Esprit Sport 350 also looks way better. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2145 Registered: 12-2000 |
Vipers don't turn and brake well compared to a 355 or Z06. | ||
| Jason (Smokinv10)
New member Username: Smokinv10 Post Number: 6 Registered: 4-2002 |
There is absolutely no way a stock lotus, vette,or 355 can hang with a Viper. Now if you want to compare modded cars. Lets take a 500hp lotus and put it up against a 650hp viper..or even a 700HP viper. Smooooked | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 645 Registered: 2-2001 |
I kill 700rwhp Vipers all the time in my Supra. LOL! Ernesto PS. I couldnt help it | ||
| Adam (Eldiablo_viper)
New member Username: Eldiablo_viper Post Number: 12 Registered: 7-2002 |
Since I had 01 C5 and now have 02 Viper I can tell you that Viper is a lot faster. On the track I was about 7 sec faster than in my MODed Vette. I do like Ferrari's but please if you think that 355 can take Z06 or a Viper on the track....I'll say dream on. Kenny, the 500HP Lotus that you were talking about was killed by my stock Viper. Even now if he has 500+ HP how can you say it would be faster than 700RWHP Viper? | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2143 Registered: 12-2000 |
Ha, you users are too smart. Chuck knows more about T1 than I do... I have a selective memory. ;0 What you said is true and also the vettes get to run I think 315 tires all the way around. I think everyone is basiclly right, I think the C5/Z06 should get more respect than it does for performance - end of statement. For soul, we all know which car has the most of that. To rebute Peter's track times, those appear accurate with the C5, I would imagine the 2002 or newer Z06 would be about the same as the 355, unless that was a challenge. | ||
| Dave L (Davel)
Junior Member Username: Davel Post Number: 210 Registered: 7-2001 |
I would think alot of people stay at Motel 6, spend wisely and invest. They also may own a Ferrari and park at Motel 6 and not feel silly or embarrased. Good value for the money is smart whether you own a Ferrari or Corvette. Paying more isnt smart, its just paying more for certain things. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2816 Registered: 5-2001 |
Rob I will let you know Oct. 8 what I think of the Z06. I will have one day on the track in Moroso where I was also driving my 348 and in William's 512TR and in a 355 Challenge. My beef with the Corvette is that it has no soal. Yes it is cheaper and yes you get HP up your *** but it is lacking refinement and soal. The little things that make you apprechiate your car. There are so many modded ricers on the street that will blow our cars into bits and pieces. Would I feel bad if one of them "eats me for breakfast"? No way, I feel sorry for these kids unless they do something positive with their knowledge they have aquired and make a carear with thier knowledge. The coffee at the Motel 6 is free, the coffee at the Sheraton Bal Harbour will set you $5 back and you paid 4 times as much for the night. Corvettes park at the Motel 6, Ferraris at the Sheraton. That is how simple the world is. | ||
| Chuck Babel (Chuck_98_rt10)
Junior Member Username: Chuck_98_rt10 Post Number: 57 Registered: 5-2002 |
C'mon Rob, T1 - the so called "stock" class - choked the throttle bodies and added weight to the Viper to make the class more competitive. The STOCK Viper flat out smokes the Vette - 1/4 or road. The Z06 probably IS the best Vette ever built, but they have Dodge to thank for it. | ||
| Mark Izzo (Tdf355)
Junior Member Username: Tdf355 Post Number: 86 Registered: 3-2002 |
My 2003 Z06 arrives this week. This is a great car for 48,000.00, 0% financing, 3.9 0-60 daily driver!! | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 331 Registered: 8-2002 |
In the almost four years that I've owned my Porsche 996, I have never "challenged" anyone to a stop light drag race. First of all, if I want to race, I'll do it on a track. Secondly, the Porsche is not and was never intended to be a 1/4 mile dragster. That said, I love to open it up on the freeway, traffic permitting, and have had some "fun runs" along side several Ferraris and Vettes but, in all cases, I don't think either of us was giving it 100%. These runs are usually brought on by the fact that I almost always drive at a high rate of speed and it seems that everytime I pass someone in a Vette or F-car, they seem to "wake up" and either take it as a challenge or just want to have a little fun. Usually, the latter. If it's safe Im usually up for a little fun but, if the guy is a nut and is recklessly weaving in and out of traffic, I'll just let him go. I don't agree that 99% of 996 owners think they are better that the C5/Z06. I think the Z06, especially, is a lot of performance for the money. So is the Viper. My 996 stickered for around $91K and with that I could have bought a Viper and had money to spare. The thing is that it is not a race car. I am not out to get the best 1/4 mile time. It is my daily driver. For that purpose, I felt it better suited my needs. I really don't believe that most adults are driving around thinking, "Look at that guy over there. My car is better than his." Anybody that loves performance cars enough to spend $50K-$100K on one when they could get a much more practical MBenz for the same money, should be able to appreciate it when they see someone else on the street that feels the same, regardless of the other person's choice of car. I have three very close friends that all have C5's, two of them are convertibles and one is a coupe. I don't ENJOY driving them. It's not about who's car is 2 tenths of a second quicker from 0-60mph. It's about spending every day driving the car in the real world. Don't be offended Vette owners, but, and all of my Vette owning friends agree, the Vette has a cheaper GM feel to it, both in the driving feel and, even more so, in the interior trim. That's perfectly ok, though, as it does cost quite a bit less than the Porsche. What do you expect? Of my three friends, one bought the Vette because it was inexpensive and would now like to trade it for a 996, one bought it because he likes the more agressive styling, and the third is just an old time Vette man who now owns 4 of them (1961, 1978, 1995, and 1999). I think that all of this focus on which car is faster is somewhat misguided. These are street cars. These are every day street cars. These are not race cars (unless that is what you are buying it for) and they are not, for most people, weekend toys. They all provide enough performance to make them very enjoyable on public roads. BTW, before I bought the Porsche, I had a 98 BMW M Roadster. That was really a fun car! The car really had too much power for the out-dated rear suspension but that made it really squirrely. Unfortunately, it was just too small for a practical daily driver. | ||
| Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Member Username: Corsa Post Number: 252 Registered: 4-2001 |
Again. PRODUCTION CARS Driver: Jan �Flash� Nilsson, Professional racing driver Track: Mantorp Park Sweden Chrysler Viper GTS 1.31.61 (120 km/h) Lamborghini Diablo VT 1.31.90 Ferrari F355 F1 Berlinetta 1.33.73 Porsche 911 Carrera Cup 1.35.42 BMW M Coupe 1.35.64 Maserati 3200 GT 1.36.30 Chevrolet Corvette C5 1.37.21 Jaguar XKR 1.39.72 My 328 not driven on the limit, as "Flash" was doing. 1.42 Normaly track experienced drivers are 5-6 seconds slower than "Flash" in the same car. I suppose I am as well. You do the counting. Ciao Peter | ||
| A.Tonokaboni (Senna1994)
New member Username: Senna1994 Post Number: 4 Registered: 9-2002 |
As a Corvette enthusiast, I always love it when Corvettes do well, the C5 was such a great improvement over the C4 it is incredible, to read a good book about it development that really puts you inside with the engineers get "All Corvettes are Red". Excellent book. However, I owned a 99 Z51 C5 and after having sold my NSX I really missed the light mid engine feel. Therefore I purchased a 355. However, I have a feeling that the C6 due in 18 months is going to be a really good car, and might not be a bad thing to have one for an everyday car. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 285 Registered: 5-2001 |
I think the Corvette is an excellent automobile, no question about it. It's far and away more performance for the dollar then my 308QV. My only complaint is there are 4 on my street, I pass 3 on the way to work and can count a small handfull in any big mall parking lot. I really like being "the guy that owns that black Ferrari". I enjoy the little bit of celebrity it brings. Some people don't care for that but I do. I realize that at a stoplight a vette will already have torn thru the greenlight and be halfway thru the intersection before I even let out the clutch but when the race is over everybody crowds around my car first to see it. They always do. | ||
| Vince (Manatee)
New member Username: Manatee Post Number: 42 Registered: 6-2002 |
I picked up my 2001 Z06 at the National Corvette Museum and have been smiling ever since. Good performance per dollar. I wish it had an F1 transmission option. There is a website for z06 enthusiasts - www.z06vette.com | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1963 Registered: 2-2001 |
You better believe that I expect that kind of service from any new car that costs as much as the Vette did. If a car cost 3 times as much as a Vette I would expect it to be 3 times better. The C-5 Corvette has drawn a line in the sand that few can cross at that price. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Junior Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 227 Registered: 5-2002 |
To be totally truthful, my 1995 GMC truck has a little over 125,000 miles and still runs well. Other than standard wearing items like belts, tires, and oil, I've replaced the windshield wiper module, the alternator, a leaky high pressure port valve on the a/c, and the battery. That's it. I have a friend whose 2001 Volkswagen Beetle is back in the shop today for the second or third time already. | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 645 Registered: 3-2001 |
Ed, wouldn't you EXPECT all that out of any NEW vehicle... especially if you're comparing it to your 20+ year old "Expensive Fiat"? Hell, Arlie has 15 year old Chevy's with 200,000 miles that have never been in the shop. Those Chevy's are some kind of tough, reliable machines! Just ask him. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Junior Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 225 Registered: 5-2002 |
Ed, I actually turned around and drove back to a car lot this weekend that had a late model C5 convertible. First time I had stopped to look at anything on a car lot in a LONG time. It looked incredible. And it was a WHITE car. Not my favorite color, but it sure looked classy. I wonder what a metallic blue with white interior would look like? That's my favorite combo. I think the ride and handling characteristics of the newer cars are spoiling people. Anything over a few years old actually FEELS old and clunky. I don't think that I want to look at too many more of these C5 vettes. I might SERIOUSLY want one! | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1958 Registered: 2-2001 |
Well here goes, I have about 3000 miles on my new Corvette and so far it is perfect. One road trip and averaged in the high 20s on fuel economy. I didn't figure this but it has an on board computer that does it for you. There is nothing in the price range to compare it to. I got the Convertible since I am a rag top man and high performance driving is not my thing. The car will go 175 mph and 0 To 60 in 4.7 seconds according to reliable sources. That is plenty fast enough for me. What I can describe about my experience with the car can be told with two words, "Total Confidence". I trust this car 100% to get me from point A to point B without a problem. I feel fully confident to drive it daily, on trips, in the rain, in the heat, or in the snow if I desire. The frame is aluminum and the body is composit plastic so therefore the car body will be with me for the rest of my life. The engine starts and runs perfectly every time cold or hot. No exhaust odors, no oil leaks, and the transmission can get all six gears anytime I want cold or hot. The windows operate rapidly and seal perfectly. The wipers run at the speed selected every time. It has the run flat tires and therefore needs no jack, spare, or tool kit. It will go 100,000 miles before you replace the spark plugs and you never have to remove the engine unless you wear it out which will probably be a long time since at 70 MPH in 6th gear it is turning 1500 RPM. There is not a rattle or squeek in the body and the paint is flawless. The only complaint I had was the Computer Assisted Gear Selection feature that forces you to have to shift from first to fourth under certain low speed conditions. This was installed for the cars to meet fuel economy standards. It was a totally annoying feature that has a $20.00 bypass available which I promptly did. Other than that I am totally satisfied with my purchase. I wish I had waited a little longer though as you can now get 0% financing and I got mine too quickly. | ||
| Jason Biggs (Jason179)
New member Username: Jason179 Post Number: 44 Registered: 8-2002 |
I saw a few Elise's in Brussels...simply an amazing car.. RGDS Jason | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
Member Username: Kennyh Post Number: 382 Registered: 8-2001 |
Kevin, Billy Z. from this board has a Sport 350 easily modified to 500+ hp, easily the fastest car I have ever been in- it makes the F40 and the Hennessey Viper w/ a 200 shot of nitrous look relatively slow. He likes it better then his 355B and his Testarossa... | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Junior Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 147 Registered: 3-2002 |
SPREE17: read up on some English publications. CAR and EVO etc. You've been warned though, the British press usually praises anything British and shits on almsot everything American (save the ZO6 and Viper). IMHO the Elise is wonderful. Too bad they don't sell it. ...the VX220 is basically the same thing... If Dodge sells the Razor, GM should bring the VX220 over from Europe and make the Solstice. THEN, we might get an offical Elise. Either way, we'll get one in the future. I think the next model will hit our shores. | ||
| Kevin Marcus (Rumordude)
Junior Member Username: Rumordude Post Number: 64 Registered: 9-2001 |
I have been on the track with the elise before. No doubt the car handles awesome. However, they are seriously lacking in power for those straights! I must have done at least ten laps where my elise woudl easily take me on the turns but when we got to the straight, i would pass righ tby him. Around 100 mph, they're are dogs. I have driven one of the lotus esprit 350's which was a pleasant experience, but didnt get me "gaga" over it. And even the standard issue esprit has problems: with the door open and the top off, you have this huge strutural bar right there that i always would crack my head on. Oh the frustration! | ||
| SPREE17 (Spree17)
New member Username: Spree17 Post Number: 26 Registered: 9-2002 |
I have always been curious about the elise. I think they look really cool. Why are so many not street legal in the USA? | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Junior Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 146 Registered: 3-2002 |
Sun International imports the Elise. It's actually a faster version than the British one. It used a Honda B18 motor. But it's like $55k... I'd rather own a Corvette... | ||
| Dave L (Davel)
Junior Member Username: Davel Post Number: 209 Registered: 7-2001 |
A fuel injected Esprit is no problem as a daily driver. Ive had 3 and at one time for over a year my 86 was my only car. Great looks and handling and superb power and acceleration and not too expensive maint requirements make a Lotus Esprit a good way to experience exotic ownership. The Elise is simply amazing and its so light that with only 200hp or less they can easily embarrass much more powerful cars and in the corners the Elise is unmatched. Read Road and Track's recent Best Handling Car drive off. | ||
| Adam R (Arymarcz)
New member Username: Arymarcz Post Number: 6 Registered: 8-2002 |
Speaking of Lotus, what do you guys think of the Elise? I've never driven one, but people seem to enjoy them. http://www.lotuscars.co.uk/template.cfm?name=Elise_111s__MY_2002 | ||
| Jason Biggs (Jason179)
New member Username: Jason179 Post Number: 43 Registered: 8-2002 |
This is OT but you guys are totally missing out on the experience a Lotus offers. Ive been in a few and the overall driving experience, the stuffy and small cabin, and the niceeee handleing make it seem like a better value for an exotic without the creature comforts and hefty price. While they are not good for daily driving..they are incredable cars.. I think Lotus' come close to what Enzo envisioned with the F40 (idea not 0-60 numbers)and as far as a true race car is concerned, with esperits (i spell that right?) at around maybe 30k? Maybe even Less, are a true bargain..not to mention its considered, at least in my book..more exotic than a viper or a vette IMHO Jason | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 660 Registered: 6-2001 |
Rob: my list: 1. 355 2. 06 3. 996 4. Miata 5. Anything but a Viper 6. Viper | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2135 Registered: 12-2000 |
Lawrence, no argument there. For those not experienced with the "vs" wars, here's a few typical rules... 1) 100% stock vs. 100% stock or at least all mods have to be equivalent (SCCA T1 rules). 2) Resale value or long term reliability aren't part of this comparison. 3) Take qualitative analysis elsewhere, this is for quantifiable evidence like 0-60, 1/4 mile, slalom, braking distance, G's, and lap times. 4) The slowest car can beat the fastest car depending on the drivers. Skill level of driver should be equal in the comparison. My only statement is that a 996, 355, and Viper aren't better "racing" sports cars than the Z06. $ to performance ratio isn't even a contest. Which cars would I rather have on the street and not racing (in order)? 1) 355 2) 996 3) Viper 4) Z06 ...but that's an entirely different thread. | ||
| L.C.Plester (Lcplester)
Junior Member Username: Lcplester Post Number: 51 Registered: 2-2002 |
I had a tuned (around 400bhp) C5 '98 and it was really one of the best cars I have ever had. How many cars give so much power for that money? Unfortunately I sold that car two years ago, which is a pity because it was such a good car. I recently had an almost new M3 and raced with tuned C5. M3 is a very, very fast car (with over 340bhp) but there was no way I could get past the C5. We raced more than 6 miles in speeds over 150mph (it was 02:30 AM, so roads were clear), but I just couldn�t get pass him because the limiter came up in 155mph... and then the C5 just went like hell! We were very near Helsinki (our capital city), so we just had to release the throttle so no-one would get killed or so. I met the guy in gas station and he showed his car to me. That car had about 440-450bhp and only $5k in mods! Try raising the power of Ferrari with that money... I can imagine Z06 is even better than C5, pity they don�t export them to Europe... LC Finland | ||
| Kevin Marcus (Rumordude)
Junior Member Username: Rumordude Post Number: 63 Registered: 9-2001 |
I recently acquired a Z06 and this car is hugely fun. I would say that the "cost per fun" is higher than any other car i have or have had. It is definitely not a ferrari (i.e. sound, looks), but the performance is definitely there - and the thing handles quite well (well the back is a bit light). Without a doubt, this is certainly a great year for corvette. | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 266 Registered: 4-2002 |
My 1986 944 turbo has 135K on it. I bought it when it had 90K in 1996 and turned it into a track car by adding horsepower and suspension work. I use it as a semi daily driver. It out accelerates C5's. You don't see any Corvettes with 135K on the clock at track events. I have seen 308's run for years at these events. Corvettes come and go, mostly go due to owner dissatisfaction with things breaking. Nothing lasts forever, but some last longer than others. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 928 Registered: 8-2001 |
Come across many Vettes and Porsches when driving the F-car. I never had one that tried to race me or even rev their engines at a stoplight. Alway flash the "peace" sign, thumb up, or wave at eachother on the road. It's alway the sedan, SUV, and econocar people who try to "smoke" me in traffic. I think the new Vettes are quite good. Like to see the Z06 option in the regular coupe body. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1316 Registered: 9-2001 |
Martin will be routing for OZZZIE | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2132 Registered: 12-2000 |
Martin, 99% of 996, 355, and Viper owners think they're better than a C5/Z06. Facts are facts, there's little difference at all. Not only 0-60 and quarter miles, but a Z06 defentliey holds it's own or will "eat for breakfast" the others on the race track. SCCA T-1 racing is one of the best judges of the cars above racing on a track in nearly stock form. The national SCCA T-1 championships are on Saturday at Mid-Ohio, I'll post the results afterwards. Most of the cars are Vettes and for good reason. These teams spend an average of $100-150k a year to run this class. They could pick to run the 996, Viper, or 355, but the majority choose the C5 because performance differences are not significant for a car half, half, and a third of the cost respectively. What other car from above can pull 1.01 g's? Here's the entry list... Car # Name/Region/Div Car Make, Model, and Color Sponsors 2 Bobby Archer, Ft. Worth, TX/Tex/SW 01 Dodge Viper Black SuperClub/TheLodge/RedLine/Hoosier 3 Scotty White, Puyallup, WA/Ariz/SP 99 Chevrolet Corvette Black/Red Kumho/RedLine/W Coast Corvette 7 Chris Ingle, Newnan, GA/Atl/SE 01 Chevrolet Corvette White Tracktapes.com/TrafficPower.com 10 Dan Knox, McKinney, TX/Tex/SW 01 Dodge Viper GTS Black/Yellow Bobby Archer Motorsports 11 Nathan Chesmore, Rocklin, CA/SanF/NP 02 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Silver NCD Enterprises,Inc. 12 Bob Schader, Boulder, CO/Colo/RM 01 Chevrolet Corvette Silver Paulos Chev/Hoosier/RedLine 16 James Rathmann, Merritt Island, FL/CFla/SE 02 Chevroley Corvette Yellow/White Rathmannracing.com 23 Deborah Loth, Kennedale, TX/NeOk/MW 01 Dodge Viper Yellow Hoosier/BobbyArcherMotorsports 24 Ozzie Rothkop, Houston, TX/Hous/SW 02 Porsche 996 White 25 Tony Gaples, Lake Forest, IL/Chi/CN 02 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Silver/BlueStripes Black Dog Racing/Hoosier Tire 27 Tom Lyons, Harrisburg, PA/WDC/NE 99 Chevrolet Corvette Black/Yellow Goodyear/Phoenix Motorsports 32 Joe Aquilante, Chester Springs, PA/Phil/NE 02 Chevrolet Corvette Black Phoenix Performance Automotive 34 Steve Zink, Layton, UT/Ore/NP 01 Chevrolet Corvette Red Kumho Tires/Naykidracing/com 35 John Heinricy, Holly, MI/Det/CN 02 Chevrolet Corvette Black Phoenix Performance Automotive 51 Kevin Mixon, Parker, TX/NeOh/CN 99 Chevrolet Corvette Blue Goodyear/ColourQuestInc/Mallet 52 Henry Gilbert, Miramar, FL/Fla/SE 02 Chevrolet Corvette Black TheFast&Furious2/Hoosier 53 Horace Ott Jr, Carversville, PA/Phil/NE 01 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Black H. A. Ott Motorcars, LP 72 Wesley Myers, Cockeysville, MD/WDC/NE 02 Chevrolet Corvette Silver W.D. Myers, Const. 91 JB Stringer, Sam Marcos, TX/LnSt/SW 00 Pontiac Firebird Black ElectrosrceBatteries/Pavestone 94 Reese Cox, Marietta, GA/Atl/SE 99 Chevrolet Corvette Red Mallett Cars/MTI Racing 97 Judi Warren, Ellicott City, MD/WDC/NE 99 Chevrolet Corvette Pewter Phoenix Performance/Hoosier 99 Thomas Oates, Cape May, NJ/Phil/NE 02 Chevrolet Corvette Black/Orange Goodyear/Easycare/Hawk 03 J. Mathew Whitaker, Houston, TX/Hous/SW 01 Chevrolet Corvette Yellow Electrical Technologies You know those anti smoking commercials where they do some kind of stunt and then bystanders get a "*" as they become "in the know". Well... *Martin & *Chuck ;) | ||
| Chuck Babel (Chuck_98_rt10)
Junior Member Username: Chuck_98_rt10 Post Number: 55 Registered: 5-2002 |
Rob, are you sure it was the Vette messing with the Porsche? I never have Vettes come after me but there have been a couple Porsches. New ones but I'm not sure what model since all of them have looked the same for 35 years. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2811 Registered: 5-2001 |
Rob, As I always say. Lets take it to the track! That is where the boys seperate from men! I want to see the C5 against the 996 on the free track. In traffic it only takes a bigger a*shole to get ahead of a fast car. A Jugo can beet you in your 328 if stuck in traffic. Where the hell is Edward? | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2131 Registered: 12-2000 |
Here's a post I put in the "FerrariChat.com Texas" DFW Ferrari Spotters thread... Coming east on 114 this morning a 996 and C5 came up on me so quick and I was going 80 mph. I pulled over and then they gunned it again. The 996 had about 8 car lengths when they got on it again, but within quarter mile the C5 was just a few yards off the 996's bumper. Pretty dang unsafe in morning rush hour, but I imagine what happened was the Porsche owner had the C5 messing with it and it never thought a car worth half as much could hang with it, much less eat it for breakfast. | ||
| SPREE17 (Spree17)
New member Username: Spree17 Post Number: 21 Registered: 9-2002 |
I had a 1996 corvette targa. It sucked. Rattles galore. I then bought a 2000 c5 hardtop. That car was awesome. No rattles. IT handled 100% better and had power in bunches. A hard top is the only way to go with a vette and the c5 is definitely a huge improvement over the prior bucket of bolts. | ||
| Jason Godsil (Godsil)
Junior Member Username: Godsil Post Number: 122 Registered: 9-2001 |
Well I haven't said anything before because I know the Corvette is not a FerrariChat favorite, but I have a '98. This is my 6th Corvette and my second one being a '98. Though it is not an exotic, it is a great car for everyday use. I don't buy them to put them in a garage and treat them like a Ferrari, I buy them to drive. Usually about 20,000 miles a year and they take whatever I dish out. They are comfortable with plenty of power. I am not the guy that is going to try and screw with you in your Ferrari, I just think for the money these are the best cars out there. | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Junior Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 140 Registered: 3-2002 |
If any are interested... http://www.c5registry.com/2k2z06/ They had some cool pics too... http://www.c5registry.com/2k2z06/photos/01l.jpg http://www.c5registry.com/2k2z06/photos/20l.jpg http://www.c5registry.com/2k2z06/photos/23l.jpg |