| Author |
Message |
Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member
Username: Timn88
Post Number: 1548
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, November 02, 2002 - 1:39 pm: | |
You cont change the boost on a supercahrged car with a chip. Its not like a turbo where you can just adjust the wastegate. AS james said, you have to change pulleys to change the boost. The reason they only go 186 is because thats what the Y-rated tires allow. I agree with bret about them finally using big engines, its about time. We americans have been buildint muc hcheaper cars using big engines. Look at the small block chevy. It was such a well designed engine that its still being made in large volume today (im waiting to hear "but it only haas 2 valves oer cylinder" and "its got pushrods, how is that a good design!") |
allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member
Username: Allanlambo
Post Number: 83
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 1:01 pm: | |
Ross, even Road and Track tested the Murcielago and got a 0-100mph time of 8.7 seconds, and according to them this was done on a slippery track, with 91 octane gas.
I dont know about you guys, but i just moved from S.Florida, and i was shocked to find that Arizona only has 91 octane, which when i put it in the Diablo, felt like a 30hp loss.
As soon as i get some time, ill dig up some tests i have of the murcielago, and post the exact times. One thing i do recommend though is not to put to much faith in the times, to many uncontrollable variances. |
BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member
Username: Bretm
Post Number: 2827
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 12:42 pm: | |
It's funny how the europeans are starting to learn if you want to go fast you need big engines. The SL55 is big engine with a blower, what would you expect from it other than being very powerful.
For the record, my mom works for Mercedes at the head quarters here in NJ, I've been in the sl55 and I wouldn't in a thousand years trade the 308 for it, needless to say a 360. btw, they had a 360 at her work for quite awhile as they were testing it against the sl55 themselves (they always bring in competitors cars for testing and for the bosses to compare against the MBs).
The Ferrari is so much more than these other cars. Straight line "speed" is relatively easy for car companies to achieve nowadays, it's the rest that makes it different. Also remember that all of these cars would get their ass handed to them by a 1965 427 Cobra. Almost 40 years ago and the Americans knew what it took. |
Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member
Username: Lawrence
Post Number: 362
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 12:18 pm: | |
Maybe J. D. Powers should look into the tests. :-) |
ross koller (Ross)
Member
Username: Ross
Post Number: 493
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 10:39 am: | |
gonna kick this dead horse a little again.
read the rest of the autocar mag guide to worlds fastest cars.
three different sl55's are tested three times and give a 0-100 mph result of between 10.3 and 11.2 seconds.
allan says the fast times were with a tricked out car. must have been 2 of them then, with a slow one for good measure.
the murcielago, also tested twice, and comes up with times of 9.1 and 9.3 seconds, very close together but slower by a second than the times allan quoted. so were allan's times with a tricked out car? were the times that autocar got, done with the bat wings out both times?
i don't know. but i am begining to be suspicious of all of these various test results. i guess there are so many variables of environment, car, and driver ability that you just can't get a decent set of results to compare all of these cars together.
kind of makes a mockery of the old stats war when out drinking with the guys. |
Jeffrey Caspar (Jcaspar1)
New member
Username: Jcaspar1
Post Number: 35
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 10:34 am: | |
Slower than a NSX or a regular 996 is really slow! I guess SL55 drivers can only pick on the lowly Neon SRTs, Boxters and Z3s.... |
ross koller (Ross)
Member
Username: Ross
Post Number: 465
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 6:16 am: | |
sorry allen i guess i am not privy to the inside scoop on the details of the test in autocar's guide to the worlds fastest cars; i just read the article and quoted it. they didn't say anything about this sl55 being a non production vehicle and just presented the results. so how is anybody supposed to know its not a car they can buy? am not trying to pick a fight with you or anybody else here, i just quoted what it said....shoot the testers/authors/editors etc not me. and essentially i am doing 'my research' by asking questions on this board and getting answers from people like yourself who evidently know more about the event. so put it back in your pants....we know the murci is king ok? |
James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Member
Username: Omnadren250
Post Number: 311
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 1:07 pm: | |
I don't know how easy it is to bump the boost on a supercharged car. You have to start changing pulleys under the hood. It's not as easy as having an electronic boost control like on a turbo car. |
allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member
Username: Allanlambo
Post Number: 81
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 1:01 pm: | |
No Ross, i dont think theyre pissed off, as i said it was not a production vehicle available for the street. Do some research before you speak. When a car is supercharged its easy to bump the boost and create a huge performance increase. Even in that article, the Merc still got destroyed to 150mph by everything else.
a 4400pd, 508hp vehicle, will not beat a 3900pd,571hp car.
Incidently, new Autocar magazine, Sl55 Amg vs Murcielago, 575m, Nsx,Porsche Carrera,etc, total of 16 cars.
Sl55- 0-100mph=11.2 sec
murcielago- 0-100=9.1
ferrari 575- 0-100=9.4
Nsx-0-100=10.9
Porsche 996 Carrera-0-100=10.1
This was a track test, and suprisingly the Ferrari 575 got beaten by the SL55.
Lap times
Lambo Murcielago= 1min 28.6 WINNER
Porsche 996= 1min 30.3
SL55 AMG= 1min 30.6
Ferrari 575m =1 min 30.9
The ferrari was voted 15th out of 16 cars, and the Lambo won by UNANIMOUS decision.
So Sl drivers need to not only fear the Ferraris, Lambos, Porsche TT's, But also watch out for those pesky 290hp NSX's, and regular Porsche 996's.
Also, this is from a Euro magazine, not crappy U.S. mag. |
Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member
Username: Lawrence
Post Number: 330
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 6:09 am: | |
The road test from Carp and Drivel was a real disappointment. My wife's SLK32 AMG is as fast as the figures in CD. When CD tested the SLK, the figures were nearly the same as the SL55 figures above. Actually, the SLK is a tick faster to 100 but a tick slower to 140.
My own tests on our SLK32 indicate a time differential of 4.74 seconds in the passing range of 70 - 100. Quick car. Test done at 50 F. CD corrects to 60 F.
The problem with the SL55 is (if memory serves) that it weighs about 4400 lbs. |
ross koller (Ross)
Member
Username: Ross
Post Number: 453
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 4:50 am: | |
oh well, i guess porsche, ferrari and lambo pr people must all be pretty pissed off that merc brought a ringer and all the test methods and measuring equipment was wrong. better luck next time.......... |
allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member
Username: Allanlambo
Post Number: 79
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 1:12 pm: | |
Incidently, i have a test where the Ferrari 575 hits 150mph, in 21 seconds, making it miles ahead of the Mercedes also. |
allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member
Username: Allanlambo
Post Number: 78
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 1:10 pm: | |
Yes, i know where the test was done, the car was taken by mercedes to the track for the test. I was speaking in terms of a customer owned vehicle. I have the article somewhere, i will try and find it and post. The computer program involved bumps the boost pressure significantly also for the 200mph run. heres stats on the test from car and driver:
0-60=4.5
0-100=10.9
0-140=22.4
top speed gov=156.
A Murcielago can hit 0-60 in 3.5 sec, 0-100= 8.3
0-150=19.3, basicly 3 seconds before the merc hits 140, the lambo is doing 150. Also, in the quarter mile , the merc at 13.0 @ 110 is approx 1-1.5 seconds slower, and going 10-13mph slower. That is Huge!!! Not even remotely close. This also holds true for the ferrari 575 and porsche Gt2, which will kill the Mercedes. This is of a test of a U.S. 493hp Amg SL. The extra 15hp the euro version gets will not help it much. |
ross koller (Ross)
Member
Username: Ross
Post Number: 450
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 8:56 am: | |
allan, ok. but the test was done at nardo (not mercedes owned track), they made no mention of special tires etc which would qualify it as 'modified' .....and a usa sl55 (especially if it was one of the early ones with 450ish hp and not the current 508hp) has nothing to do with a euro version without a restrictor.
of course the lambo shud win. the astonishing part was that the sl55 in question beat it at certain points and also beat the gt2 and 550 on other points. i don't have one and probably won't get one (at least for a few years), all i am pointing out is that this car is no longer to be scoffed at (auto tranny or not). |
Noelrp (Noelrp)
Junior Member
Username: Noelrp
Post Number: 93
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 6:33 pm: | |
Manu,
If it helps a bit, I doubt that the SL55(Merc's flagship) can keep up with the Enzo (Ferrari's flagship).
Maranello still rules !!! |
Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Member
Username: Mr_0011
Post Number: 288
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 3:45 pm: | |
Bah! It's still an auto... |
allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member
Username: Allanlambo
Post Number: 77
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 12:14 pm: | |
Mercedes will only let you run the car at their test track with special tires to achieve that speed. They also shoot a new computer program to revise engine calibration to be able to do it. No street Sl will run like that. Besides if you look at the article, no Sl is blowing the doors off anything, untill it reach close to 180mph. In acceleration terms the murcielago dusted it, and everything else. According to Lamborghini, the only reason the Merc beat the Lambo, to 300kmh, was because the testors left the bat wings up, instead of down, killing the cars drag coefficient at those speeds. Lambo has a program that customers can buy, giving top speed close to 215mph. I hear you may be able to buy a program for the Merc giving a 186mph top speed. Also several magazines have tested the New Merc in the U.S., and its not beating anything with a 13.0 @ 110mph 1/4mph, and 0-60 in 4.5 sec. It may give a Modena a good run, but any 575, Diablo,Murci, Porsche tt, Viper gts,will leave it sucking wind. |
Dave (Maranelloman)
Member
Username: Maranelloman
Post Number: 488
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 8:34 am: | |
Remember: nearly every car is faster if you breathe on its motor with a monster supercharger!
Yes, Euro models can opt for no limiter.
BTW, I posted here back in June about my 1st experience with this car as pace car at the Montreal Grand Prix. It sounds like a NASCAR hot-rod, even at idle. In fact, we could hear its engine roar off even with ear plugs on! Sweeeeeet! |
ross koller (Ross)
Member
Username: Ross
Post Number: 441
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 8:14 am: | |
i share your sentiments manu. its one thing to have cars like the murci, zonda, veyron, etc beat ferraris since they are purpose built for that and little else, and certainly can't be used as daily drivers......but here is a car that can do the school run and then dust a lambo before lunch. why didn't ferrari make the 575 to beat everything and include a retractable hardtop? |
Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Member
Username: Manu
Post Number: 496
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 6:26 am: | |
There was one parked outside my house today actually.
I saw a stunning black one the other day outside my office too - it had been further modified by Carlson!
It's kind of PISSING ME OFF (Read - REALLY REALLY PISSING ME OFF) that this Merc is quicker than the equivalent Ferrari. Typically I don't care but in this case Performance Does Matter. |
Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member
Username: Doody
Post Number: 537
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 5:39 am: | |
i remember some discussion about restrictor removal being a few-thousand dollar option (though not for US bound cars). my understanding is that the 155 limit was largely driven by street tire technology given the weight of this beast.
doody. |
ross koller (Ross)
Member
Username: Ross
Post Number: 437
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 5:27 am: | |
basically the sl55 blows the doors off everything. beats the murci to 300km/h, beats the 550 at everything, misses out top speed honors to the murci by 3mph (202 vs 205). pretty unbelievable given the weight etc....(ferrari take note......)
one question i have though is that every other article i have seen on this car says the top speed is electronically ltd to 155mph, and yet the one in this test got to 202? how do you get rid of the restrictor? do you have to replace the chip and doesn't that void your warranty? |