| Author | Message | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 558 Registered: 3-2002 |
i think some of you are confusing college education with trade school. many schools call themselves 'college' but teach specific how-to type of subjects; this is learning a trade. college is supposed to be about learning how to learn, so that you can then go forward and adapt to whatever situation or career interests you. the fact that recent graduates don't know specific details about a job you have done for years, does not reflect on their education unless they went to specific trade school to learn precisely those things. a real college education is not suitable for everyone (and this is not meant to be derogative), but given the importance placed on the word years ago, now all institutions call themselves college, as opposed to trade school. we need both, and we need competent graduates of both types. in response to some of the other comments, i am reminded of the cliche: 'when you think you've learned everything, then you have a lot to learn'... | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 427 Registered: 11-2001 |
Yeah I learned the hard way that you don't have to go to some expensive fancy private school to get a college education. When my kids get to collage age it will be two years at the city college and then the other two at a cheap state school. With my particlar profession, the television industry, you weren't taught on the latest equipment. All the stuff they had was at best from the early 80's. I have to say that 90-95% of what I know, I really learned on the job. I used to tease the "know it all" college kids that used to work for me. I would ask them if they kept there recipt for there tuition, when they couldn't answer a basic but important question pertaining to the job. I would laugh then give them the answer. Quite often they would tell me that they weren't even aware of what I had just expained to them. This is another reason why college is over priced. However, when I was looking over resumes it did show me that they did have a true interest of working in that particular field. College is just one of those things that you have to do if you wanna live better than average joe. I still think it is wasted money, accept for a few profession, i.e. medical, science, engineering and law professions. Just way over priced for what you get. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2269 Registered: 2-2001 |
You should be able to purchase the required books and study at home and take a test to see that you have learned what you should know. Huge buildings with a Champion Football team are unnecessary. School could also be taught on line. There are many cheaper alternative ways that education could reach the population at a BIG savings to the individual. This is the way most Automotive Technicians learn their trade. Every day there is a test. In my case about 7 tests per day. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1622 Registered: 6-2001 |
Ernie, Thats why i went to a small school. My biggest class is like 23 people. My smalles is probably 15. | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 424 Registered: 11-2001 |
Even though school is important it is a bigger ripoff than buying Ferrari parts from the dealer! The first two years are the same crap you did in high school only more of it. The next two year you are lucky if the actual professor is the one teaching you. I don't know about you but I HATED paying umpteen thousand dollars a year to be lectured to by some know it all T.A. Then if you do get a professor that does teach the class, some of them don't even really teach they just talk. You really teach your self, read these chapters, and study this, then read more of that. I say for what it costs to attain an upper enducation, you really are getting robbed for your money. I was in school from 8am until 10pm monday -thurs and 8am -5pm friday. Out of the eleven classes I had one semester, I would say that I learned something completely new in only two maybe three at the most, the rest was the same stuff from high school. An education is very important, but what some of these school charge is insane. I didn't like school and I really HATE still paying for it. Student loans suck ass! However it is good to hear that you are going to stay in school. In order to finish first, you must first finish. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 771 Registered: 6-2001 |
Mr. Doody: I'm a trial lawyer. That means I get to be obnoxious as I want. I like getting justice for my clients and beating people up who use their power and positioin to take advantage of others. The look on their face when they realize they've been caught, and instead of pissing and moaning about this frivelous suit, they just want to know how much to get out of it. That moment when both you and they know that they've been caught, its great. Almost as much fun as going fast in the 355. Art | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member Username: Doody Post Number: 581 Registered: 11-2001 |
hear hear, art. do what you love! as long as you're not dumb as a post, the money will follow ;-) doody! | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2218 Registered: 2-2001 |
 | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 767 Registered: 6-2001 |
Horsefly: You are right about the degree not meaning a lot. However, it does signify a certain work ethic. Not all of us can be Doctors, etc. However, if you have aspirations for a work or professional environment where a degree is required, then you need the degree. In my years, I've seen many educated idiots, a lot with various advanced degrees. If John is looking for a vehicle to earn a living, a degree is usually a good choice. In my experience however, those who work at what they love, do far better than those who work for the money. Art | ||
| j scott leonard (Jscott)
Junior Member Username: Jscott Post Number: 201 Registered: 1-2002 |
Horsefly: A degree does not make the individual. What matters is character. I have an advanced degree but it has been the experience and effort that has counted for more than the education. However, education should not be discounted. It opens doors otherwise not available. I have great respect for any person who is willing to accept responsibility and work hard. If a person has the opportunity to go to school they should. One of my sons is a police officer and did not finished college and one of my sons is still going on the 7 year plan. I am equally proud of them both. They are men of character who know how to work and contribute to the community. I don't think that anyone is trying to be an academic snob, just giving the benefit of experience and counsel. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 765 Registered: 6-2001 |
John: You're donig the right thing about this. Get the education, you won't be sorry. Art | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1654 Registered: 9-2001 |
Rob, naked and wet - nice  | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2663 Registered: 12-2000 |
My 3 page single line small font size resume has one line for my B.S. and one line for my M.B.A. and that's it. However, much of the rest of those 3 pages are there from opportunities created because of those degrees. Once you have the opportunity, then you're on your own. Like I've said before, I've done better in my career from what I learned playing poker, running a small business, and swimming than from any classroom. For me I needed those degrees to have the opportunity, but many times you don't. There's several people here at my work above me that barely finished high school. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2662 Registered: 12-2000 |
Tim, it's all up to you. I wasn't in a frat because the swim team kinda served that purpose. We worked very hard, but also "played" harder than anyone on campus. Instead of a sister soriety, we had the womens swim team which didn't have any suprises under 30 pounds of sweaters, because we about saw them naked and wet every single day. I think that was the best. Since I'm an old fart now, I would have to join the frat. My competitive days are over. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 378 Registered: 5-2002 |
Yes Jim, alot of sarcasm. From time to time I get a belly full of the media blitz that infers you will be a substandard failure if you're not a college person (which I am not, in case you wondered). I have to stop and wonder how many high school educated older farmers there are that run giant farms that help put the nations food on the table 3 times a day. Or the "high school only" grocery store shelf stockers and warehouse people who help keep the best food supply system in the world moving each day. As I told a friend of mine, not everybody is meant to be a doctor or a lawyer. Or a stock market wheeler dealer. It takes all kinds to make up our world. And just because you don't have a college sheepskin hanging on the wall doesn't mean you are substandard. Remember that the next time you call an "uneducated" tow truck driver when your Ferrari breaks down on the side of the road. You will be VERY happy to see that "working class" individual who is there to help you out of your situation. | ||
| j scott leonard (Jscott)
Junior Member Username: Jscott Post Number: 200 Registered: 1-2002 |
Good choice John!!! | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1567 Registered: 6-2001 |
"A bit of sarcasm Horsefly?" what would give you that idea? I dont detect even the slightest bit in his post, none at all. I think hes trying to say that theres nothing wrong with thse jobs he described. Those menand women work hard and are good people. Just because they dont make alot of money doesnt mean they arent good people. Money is only money, thats it. i truly hope no one on this board ties their wealth to their self worth. just because you have money doesnt mean you are a better person than someone that doesnt. | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 410 Registered: 7-2002 |
A bit of sarcasm Horsefly? I think what the board is trying to say is get an education and you have options. My mom always told me growing up that I had to get a degree in something and if after that I chose to be a ditch digger that was fine, but at least it was by choice. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1565 Registered: 6-2001 |
should i join a frat, rob? at my college we dont rush till we are sophomores. Im definately going to rush becasue of all the parties, and special funcitns such as strippers, and free food. I dont know if i want to pledge to one because they are gross inside. There must have been a half inch of beer on the floor at the one i was at last saturday night. i know this it O/T for this O/T post. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 377 Registered: 5-2002 |
By all means John, stay in college. You wouldn't want to end up as a working class person like the vast majority of honest, hard working Americans that form the backbone of our great country. You wouldn't want to end up a carpenter, plumber, electrician, or construction worker like the people who built the home you grew up in, the schools you attended as a kid, or the college that you are enrolled in. You wouldn't want to end up an assembly line worker like the person who built the car you drive every day, or the computers you use to get on the internet. And you certainly wouldn't want to settle for a high school education like the hundreds of thousands of freedom fighting men and women who served in our military through two world wars, Korea and Vietnam conflicts. By all means, stay in school and become a suit and tie wearing stock market wheeler dealer. History will show that you will surely be a failure if you don't. NOT!!!!!!!! | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2661 Registered: 12-2000 |
Good choice John!... about the girls. The day my wife leaves me is the day I go back to school and join a frat. I took those years for granted. | ||
| John (Modenaf1fan)
New member Username: Modenaf1fan Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2002 |
Well, first I liked to thank everyone again for giving me advice. After talking to alot of people and you guys Ive decided that I am going to stick around in school,plus their are so many girls that I need to be with,=).. I am also going to look to see if I can get a summer job(handin out coffee whatever)at the NYSE. I want to be as close as possible to real time traders so I can learn more about the market. for anyone that is interested in what system I am talking about their site is www.turtletrader.com (I dont know if Im allowed to post other sites here) but thats where I do alot of reading. Also if some of u guys can, tell me what u think about the site. | ||
| Fred (I Luv 4REs) (Iluv4res)
Junior Member Username: Iluv4res Post Number: 195 Registered: 8-2002 |
My 2 cents: There was, and probably to this day, no one who hated school more than me. From wondering what the heck nap-time was for in pre-school, to getting into real trouble in high-school. My Grandfather convinced me to stay in school by offering me a car if I got "B's" or better. I did, hating it all the way, and found myself in college a few years later. Drinking, partying and getting laid were my favorite subjects. F--k economics, finance, management, etc... I worked and started many businesses from highschool on, insistant that I would "do it on my own terms". In college I began working for a pawn-shop. Trading/buying/selling just about anything you can imagine. What an education that was. It really honed my 'street smarts'. I began to see that if I could just get my 'book smarts' to equal my new found 'street smarts', I could have one hell of a combination. I did. Following graduation, I began working at Merrill Lynch. Great experince. I learned that the securities markets are lower than s**t, and those that are successful float to the top like s**t. (sorry if that offends anyone on the board). I left ML to do things my own way. I began investing in Real Estate. I can now say that I am a self-made millionaire. Not from the infomercials, self-help books and/or Real Estate so called 'guru's', but from the EDUCATION I recieved with 'book smarts' from college and 'street smarts' from the Pawn Shop days. The market isn't going anywhere!!! It will still be available to you in a year or so. Getting an education may not!!! Looking back to your post, I am reminded of myself. No, you don't absolutely need to get your degree. There are plenty of people who do well without one. However, keep the 'fire in the belly' passion to succeed that you have and combine it with REAL knowledge and you will be unstoppable!!! Good luck!!! | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Member Username: Manu Post Number: 516 Registered: 2-2002 |
John - go back to university - I know it sucks - but it is wholly necessary. As to trading - what kind of trading system are you talking about... I'm totally mystified.Are you talking about a genuine beat-the-market trading system because if you are I'LL BE AMAZED. We were always being told that the quant's with their PHDs from MIT/Chicago etc had come up with some kind of amazing computer model trading system which only looked at technicals....... worked for all of 6 months and then made no money and they went back to the drawing board. First thing I was told was that, it's the contrarians that make the most money - those who try trend follow will never realise big profits.... It makes sense. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 510 Registered: 3-2002 |
john, i am a commodities trader, and have been for nearly 14 years. please don't listen to any of these guys telling you to finish school, or to be suspicious of trading systems. please drop out right now, and start trading as fast as you can. why am i telling you this? because you are cannon fodder and obviously not taking any of the advice you came on the site asking for; and more importantly i want to take your money as fast you can dish it out using your system. a system is worthless to you if you have no idea about what is going on in the world around you. then maybe once you are stone broke you will get smart and go back to school. | ||
| David Jones (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 428 Registered: 4-2001 |
John, you sound allot like my son, and allot like me when I was your age... I think most of us here have been in your shoes at one time or another, and have achieved some of the goals that you desire in life, like owning a Ferrari, being successful... That's probably why you asked our advice. These guys are not bullshitting you... They are passing on their knowledge to you, out of the goodness of their hearts, not "selling you some system" to make a buck... Let me give you a little free advice. Always have a backup! A soldier doesn't go into battle with just one bullet, no matter how good a shot he may be... Want to trade stocks? Great trade stocks, but have something to fall back on Just In Case. Every advantage you can give yourself is a plus, and right now the biggest advantage you could do for yourself would be to finish college... Do you think that you are the only one that picked up that book by Richard Dennis? | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member Username: Fred Post Number: 668 Registered: 2-2001 |
"I find that the harder I work the more luck I seem to have." Thomas Jefferson | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1642 Registered: 9-2001 |
these comments make me think of "boiler room" . BTW had some nice exotics - Ben affleck was funny saying "355 cabriolet" | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2652 Registered: 12-2000 |
I don't know how I did it... classes five days a week, had a total of 9 practices a week for the swim team, worked 8-12 hours a week in the computer center, ran my own CD business, all night poker nights, and would party my ass off at least two nights a week. Those were some great times though, I loved it. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1561 Registered: 6-2001 |
Hell yeah college sucks, ive been here for 3 months and i cant wait to go home. I study alot (ecept when im busy with practice, then i simply dont do my schoolwork) and it sucks, but the weekends make up for it. I have classes 5 days a week and practice 3 days a week(6 a week starting in jan., which will mark the end of my social life), so dont comlain, im busy as hell. Tkae it seriously, but not too seriously. thats what i get for picking engineering for my major. i know nedxt year will be 5X harer becasue i wil have a higher course load than i do now, which is still more than most people. You gotta work hard if you want anything. this holds true for academic, life and sports. Vince Lombardi once said: "The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." | ||
| Ryanab (Ryanab)
Junior Member Username: Ryanab Post Number: 137 Registered: 3-2002 |
John: I stated that, given your current economic situation, one WITHOUT an education would be at a serious disadvantage... Nothing to do with making money....... | ||
| j scott leonard (Jscott)
Junior Member Username: Jscott Post Number: 199 Registered: 1-2002 |
John: Art C's advise is correct. Hard work and perservance make for financial success. I would suggest you pick up a copy of "The Millionaire Next Door" by Thomas J. Stanley, Ph.D and William D. Danko Ph.D. You will gleen some very interesting information regarding wealth and how to accumulate it. (BTW, I too could use a spell checker) | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 410 Registered: 4-2002 |
An addition to what I previously posted: If you want to become a system trader, certain personality traits are an absolute asset: 1. Perserverance. 2. Dedication. 3. A mole-like, scholarly, nose-in-the-book way of life. Hmmm..... Sounds a lot like going to school. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2646 Registered: 12-2000 |
About a spellchecker... we have one and I could turn it on in about 3 seconds, but when we first had it, everyone complained because it marks many correct words like contractions and words with pre and sub -fixes. It doesn't give you the correct spelling anyway. I always have an email or MS Word open and do a little copy/paste back and forth to check. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3123 Registered: 5-2001 |
John, hell knowns, although I did not drop out of school I was never, and I mean never even a good or average student. I made it barely through my school career. One year I just could not pull of a last minute stunt and failed and had to return. The game is not to quit. If you do just because you don't like it you are a quiter all your life. Forget stocks or anything. Once you quit you are toast. Nobody is saying that you should study harder and get better grades, but all are saying graduate. I hope you can read the difference. A degree is a degree and once you have it not many ask how good you did. My experience is that the more relaxed you start to take things the easier they get and the easier your grades will actually come by. | ||
| John A. Suarez (Futureowner)
Junior Member Username: Futureowner Post Number: 227 Registered: 3-2002 |
John, Believe what you will. Just remember that there are several people on this site who are the real deal when it comes to anything related to finance. The ideal thing to do is to bet on sure things. Think about it like this: Imagine that you read a couple books on poker. After doing so you believe that you have found an edge that most professional poker players do not rely on. So you end up going to the World Series of Poker, putting up your entire savings of $25,000 to get in. When all is said and done you made it past the first couple of rounds only to lose it all before the final table is in sight. What happened??? The seasoned veterans who put in the most hard work, and networked with the best of the best, magically ended up on the final table. The cream rises to the top. I just don't think it is such a hot idea to go "all in" just because of a few books that sound promising. Remember that book Dow 36,000? Step back and think about this long and hard before you make a mistake. And if you DO think that this is the BEST way to go, print out a copy of this thread and read it again in 5 years time. | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 403 Registered: 4-2002 |
John: Probably best to contact me offline, but: I have TONS of experience with futures trading, etc. 1) Although a good system will work, it's nowhere as easy as you make it out to be. 2) Richard Dennis' systems have crashed and burned in recent years. Richard, a year or two ago, tried to restart a fund using his old methods, it fizzled. One of his most vocal 'Turtles', Russell Sands, has gone back to playing blackjack for a living. 3) Even if you do seek trading as a career, GET THAT EDUCATION. Proper system design requires a good understanding of math, statistics, and, to some extent, physics. It ain't easy! Most system developers don't have statistically valid proof that their system is better than random. Profit and drawdown can be shown to be contained within a probability distribution, and the width of this distribution often contains the significant possibility that the system is random. Historical drawdown is usually used at the benchmark for risk, but it is totally false - again this is best shown as a probability distribution. My working career is slowly winding down, to be taken over by my trading career. I live off of my job, but my toys, including my modest Ferrari (and it's damn repairs), come from trading. I could afford a, uh let's say 'less modest' Ferrari, but being a fiscal conservative, I've chose not to blow my trading capital on a car. I've been doing this for 20+ years. IT AIN'T EASY!! | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Junior Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 73 Registered: 8-2002 |
Richard Dennis was a Turtle TRader in the 80s, 2 wealthy millionars made a bet much like the movie "Trading Places" that they could develop a trading system and take ordinary Joes and make them into Super Traders, it worked for a while many of the originial Turtles became wealthy and wrote books seminars etc but most of them crashed out in the later years as the markets changed and the System became stale Their are a few trades called "Turtle Soup" that take advantage of these system traders and stop them out taking their money Read as much as you can on T/A and don't believe in these canned systems that will automatically make you rich | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 760 Registered: 6-2001 |
John: The point is the discpline you acquire by doing those things which require concentration. As a bonus you acquire knowledge which at some point in time may be useful. If you read the various posts, you can see that many of us differ substantially on life, etc. We don't disagree on the need for education, and the discpline which a successful education implies. If you are going to trade, regardless of the system you use, the more successful trader will usually be the most knowledgable. The most knowledgable will be the man or woman who puts in the most time, i.e., the most discplined. When I was young I thought that because I was smarter than everyone I knew, I'd be an automatic success. At close to 60, I know what BS that was. Edison: genius is 90% persperation, 10% intellect (not exactly a quote but close. You may be able to make it as you wish, but the odds ae stacked against you big time. Good luck in your adventure, but if I were you, I'd listen to those who've been there and done that. There are some successful people on this chat: I'd listen to them. Art PS: by the way Rob, are we ever going to get a spell checker? both Martin and I could use one. Art | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member Username: Fred Post Number: 665 Registered: 2-2001 |
I am not trying to dicourage you, just sharing what it can be like. And yes I use a plan and stop losses but don't kid your self please. You will set stop losses and you will break them from time to time. It is just human nature. If it were easy everyone would be doing it and no one would be working. I still do trade stocks and turning $1200 into a fortune is a very small exception. If you start out underfunded your risk of failure goes way up. With the new rules that they have put in place you can't even make more then 4 or 5 trades a week unless you have $25,000 in your account. I also read the market wizard books by Jack Schwager and about 20 other books on trading and while in no way an expert on the subject do know a bit about it. Goodluck to you | ||
| John (Modenaf1fan)
New member Username: Modenaf1fan Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2002 |
Matt L- Im planning on doing this alone..i have money saved up. John Suarez- reading books is going to teach me the basics..the system is going to give me the edge. Rob Lay- Even if everyone knew the system doesnt mean everyone is going to follow it..btw this system has clients in 66 countries and it is still successful. Art- I would get a degree but what is the point since I want to become a trader. Dave- Richard Dennis did not write a book..he invented the system(trend following). this system is more like a plan, it will tell me when to enter the market, when to get out of a trade, etc...as for your comment on education, sorry dave but education does NOT have anything to do w/ trading in the market, that is a myth.."trading is over for good", again NOT true.(no offense) but you have no idea of what ur talkin about..this system is NOT a scam, ive done alot of research on systems and i ran across this one..alot of the things u said are myths. Ryanab- just because the economy is down it doesnt mean u cant make money in the market. take a look at John Henry's(trend follower, owns a large piece of the RedSox)company results. "The nature of markets is to trend. The nature of life is to trend"-John Henry Frederick T- "start w/ a large fortune" that is another myth..Richard dennis started out with about $1,200 and turned that into $200mill...you stated that u did some stock trading, my question to you is did u set a stop loss? did u have a plan?..probly not. I just want to say thanks for u guys respondin on how u feel. I feel that this is where I am going to succeed at so I am going to work at it and keep focus. "I don't fear failure. I only fear the slowing up of the engine inside of me which is pounding, saying, "Keep going, someone must be on top, why not you?" General George S. Patton | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member Username: Fred Post Number: 664 Registered: 2-2001 |
Education is hanging around long enough to catch on.-Robert Frost Do you know the secret to making a small fortune in the stock market? Start with a large fortune. I have done a lot of stock trading over the years and you will need to have the money and STOMACH to make it through the beginning. You will think you are ready but once you start it is a whole new ball game. One of my first trades I made $300 in one minute. And when I say one minute I mean ONE minute. It was nice while it lasted, the problem is by the end of the day I was down $500. | ||
| Ryanab (Ryanab)
Junior Member Username: Ryanab Post Number: 134 Registered: 3-2002 |
John, consider your classes at post secondary as "stepping stones". You must carefully and successfuly step on EACH one to be guaranteed any sort of future success. Stay positive and keep the dream alive and you will be driving your F-car in no time! Take care, Ryan PS, especially in the current economy, one without any sort of education will not survive. Keep studying.. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 536 Registered: 1-2002 |
John, regarding your comment: "Dave- these system(trend following) was invented by one of the greatest traders of all time(richard dennis) and alot of people have been successful by it...Education has nothing to do w/ trading in the market..people who make money in stocks are those who have an edge over others.: I don't want to rehash what everyone else is telling you here. However, I have to call BS on your comment. First of all, if Mr. Harris is so great, why does he need to write a book? And who on earth would he ever share his supposed foolproof system with anyone else? Heaven knows I wouldn't. 'Nuff said there. Buyer beware of get rich quick stock broker schemes. Second, education has nothing to do with trading in the market? BS, my man. The days of say trading, when you could buy ANYTHING & have it go up a week later, are over for good. Get that through your head. And without an education, how will you know what economic trends to follow that presage market moves so you can get there first? How will you recognize the importance of political acts & uncertainty theory on the markets? How will you know what to look for with international economic indicators & seasonal trends to predict market moves? And, most inportant, how on earth will you learn how to correctly analyze the fundamentals of a company whose stock you are considering buying? Oh, that's right: you're gonna get a "system". I forgot... And third, "people who make money in stocks are those who have an edge over others"??? Exactly , my good man, but their edge is their intelligence, education, & preparation--and not some scam "system" by some guy who makes his money selling books to the gullible instead of using his supposed "system" to make money in the markets. People who make money in a normal market (i.e., today's) are those who are better prepared & better educated. There is no secret--it's all about doing the basics, the fundamentals. And the odds are definitely stacked against you if you drop out at 21. Buckle down, man. Few of us enjoyed being in class either. Few of us also enjoy paying taxes on what we make. But both are the cost of doing business, as they say. Good luck to you. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 757 Registered: 6-2001 |
John: If you can't pay enough attention to study to get through school, what makes you believe you can pay enough attention to learn enough to get that advanatage when you're working? Life is generally built upon experiences, fail at one thing, expect to fail at the next. You'll be competing against those folks who ran you out of school. I'd stay in school, learn to focus your attention, and get where you need to go. Statistics show that people without a degree make about 65% of what those with a degree earn. Like hambergers? drop out of school, unless you are so smart that you can get As without reading the text book. I know a few of them, but from your post, I suspect you aren't in the club. Want the Ferrari, get some self control, do what you have to do to get an education in something that you want to learn, and mvoe on with your life. I've seen a bunch of losers, all thinking that they could have been someone, blaming someone else, rather than looking in the mirror and not taking responsibilty for their own actions causing their current condition. Don't mean to be abusive, but this is my perception of where you're going, and I hope that you see where this leads. Work hard, get the degree, work hard after school, get the Ferrari. Art | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2636 Registered: 12-2000 |
a system might have a chance of being good until everyone knows about it. I wonder why authors sell books like this and systems in general. If it was so good, then why didn't they get all the money they needed from it. Are they truly charitable and they want strangers to benefit from it? Kinda like the question about why do we have to call psychics, shouldn't they know when to call us. What do you think some of the best careers are without a college degree? I would say any type of sales position, but even most of the top medical companies require a degree. Auto tech is good money down the road, but you have to be in some form of training or another that will be as much as a pain as finishing your degree. I can't think of too much that you could retire by 27 or I would be doing it. Wait a second, it's too late, I'm 28. | ||
| John A. Suarez (Futureowner)
Junior Member Username: Futureowner Post Number: 223 Registered: 3-2002 |
"Education has nothing to do w/ trading in the market..people who make money in stocks are those who have an edge over others" John, Can you say "fly by night" ?? Be realistic here man. Reading a couple of books is not going to give you the "edge" you talk about. Maybe using inside information will, but that will land you in Federal Pound me in the Ass prison(See movie Office Space). I really hope you reconsider this. Honestly, even if you can't stand studying, don't you at least think that a couple more years of studying will be better for you in the long run? Especially since it will be a little bit longer until the markets get back on track. | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 370 Registered: 8-2002 |
John, If you plan on getting a position at a stock firm, I guarentee that they will pass you over for someone with a college degree. If you plan on going it alone...what will you use for capitol to gain enterance into the market? M | ||
| John (Modenafan)
New member Username: Modenafan Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2002 |
I just like to thank everyone for respdonding..the reason why im probly gona drop out is because..first of all, i just cant study..i hate it..I sit in class and just want to bang my head on the desk..i open up a book read first page then close the book..also w/ the economy lookin like crap..it is goin to be very hard for me to get a good job..also i am very interested in the market..i read alot of whats goin on and learning the basics..ive read two books so far(both market wizards) and enjoyed reading them. the system that i will be studying is both for stocks and commodities. The reason i want to choose to be a trader is because I will at least have a chance to become successful and wealthy since its a zero-sum game(winners win from the losers).Im gona study the system because I want to enter the market with an edge and with confidence. I dont know what it is but i feel like this is what I need to be doing. I have alot of goals and one of them is to retire at 27, so the only chance i have is the market. Dave- these system(trend following) was invented by one of the greatest traders of all time(richard dennis) and alot of people have been successful by it...Education has nothing to do w/ trading in the market..people who make money in stocks are those who have an edge over others. Matt- Im not doing this because of a Ferrari, eventhough i will get one. =) | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1627 Registered: 9-2001 |
stay in school - while you hear about the bill gates types - dropped out of school - most successful people stress education. I look at it this way if you are going to be successful an education will never hold you back | ||
| Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member Username: Joechristmas Post Number: 522 Registered: 3-2001 |
All good points. Stay in school especially if you are close to graduating. I went 4 years all pre-med. I then went on to Chiropractic College(4 additional years). I am finishing up a BS in Psy. this summer as I very close to achieving this degree. Keep your options open and it is better to have it and not have to use it then need it and not have it. There is a past thread about what age they purchased their Ferrari and what they do for a living. I purchased my First Ferrari at age 21. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 322 Registered: 7-2001 |
There is some good advice being offered to you on here John, don't discount it. I dropped out of university when I was 20 years old. I had a big plan too, worked at a big company doing commision sales, bought a nice car etc. But after 3 years I was sick of the long hours and little opportunity to advance. I packed it in and went back to school and just finished my finance degree, but this opportunity was only available to me because my parents were there to support me through all of my shananigans. I have other friends who did the same as me, but were not lucky enough to have the financial support to back them up. So in the end, I'm 27 years old and just graduated. I am now looking for a job, but competing against all the young whizzy graduates who are 22 years old and have 3.9 GPA's. Sure, it's not the end of the world, I'm still young and I'm educated. But I if I could do it all again, I would have stayed in school the first time around. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2845 Registered: 2-2001 |
John I hear you about college, except the partying and girls, it's a friggin boring most of the time. I'd much rather right be working as a mechanic on exotics (my summer/break job) everyday. BUT, when I'm 25 or 30 I'd much rather be bringing my own cars into our shop to be serviced than working there. College is a pain in the ass, but worth it in the long run, without it you seal your fate in working for the most part easily replaceable jobs. Even becoming a mechanic nowadays you need to either get lucky and be an apprentice or go to school. My rambling may be a bit odd coming from a 19 year old, but still most hold some truth as everyone tells me this when I want to spend my days racing go karts and tracking the 308 instead of studying political science. | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 350 Registered: 8-2002 |
John, Not to beat you over the head or anything but an education is far more then a Ferrari. Stick out college and set your own pace and direction with an educational foundation. There is more to life then Ferrari's. my 2 cents. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 535 Registered: 1-2002 |
Um, before we answer you, how about you answer me? For one, why on earth are you going to drop out so close to graduation????? Second, do you expect to be successful as a dropout following stock trends with some sort of dubious "system"?? Wouldn't you rather be a successful trend PREDICTOR, thanks to your completed education & a few years of business experience, who actually makes money in stocks? Just wondering... | ||
| John (Modenafan)
New member Username: Modenafan Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2002 |
I see that alot of people here own a ferrari, i was just wondering what age everyone here is and what do you do for a living? i am 21yr old student, soon to drop out,and i dont have a ferrari yet. I am also goin to be a trend follower for the market after learning a system. |