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Message |
BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member
Username: Bretm
Post Number: 2987
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 1:27 pm: | |
I think the system now works pretty well for Ferrari, although it is a little bit sketchy, like the wait lists for instance. But, that's the nature of the beast.
What really annoys the hell out of me is the artificial exclusivity, namely the F50 and then the Enzo. It's just ridiculous IMO, stupid b.s. antics and gyrations on Ferrari's part which totally go against the old man's policies (not that they were right) and in essence hurt their financial standings in the name of making a few rich schmucks feel special. They'll obviously never sell as many Enzos as 360s, so it will always in essence be exclusive by the nature of it. I don't find the 1300 F40s made an overkill at all, quite on the contrary, I think it is a reasonable number produced and leads to a car that one can actual get parts for and therefore actual use as the f*cking thing was supposed to be. How the hell can you track an F50 when it's one of like 365 (they made more than 349) made. It's just stupid. If you want the thing new be prepared to take a hit in depreciation, welcome to life and the rest of the world. I find it insane that you can buy a car from them and 7 years later you can sell it for almost twice as much. Not only is Ferrari stupid for not getting in on that money, but it's just plain jerked off. Besides which, do you honestly expect when you buy an Enzo that it will be a real "collectors" like car, the big money cars are from like 60s and earlier, and they usually made about 30 of them for them to now be multimillion dollar rides. In the real light, the 349 or 399 whatevers aren't exclusive at all. But it's good to make rich uncle pennybags think they are.
We'll say it's about $1million to buy an Enzo if you didnt order one. For that money you could buy an old 1999-2001 Formula 1 car, and still have enough left over to buy some politicians and local and state police so you could really wreak havoc on the street. And yes, with the suspension all the way up you can make it on normal roads, albeit you would have to choose them carefully. Now that would be cool. |
arthur chambers (Art355)
Member
Username: Art355
Post Number: 822
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 12:52 pm: | |
Supply and demand causes the prices. Stop buying them, and watch the price decline. It's proabably illegal for the distributor to keep the dealers from selling above MSRP, but so be it. If the demand wasn't so high, the price would go down. I'd rather wait than pay more than I should, but that's my personal preference.
Art |
Fred (I Luv 4REs) (Iluv4res)
Junior Member
Username: Iluv4res
Post Number: 238
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 12:38 pm: | |
Bying a house (ie Real Estate) at a premium is different in my opinion. EVERY piece of real estate is UNIQUE!! Paying for location, location, location is part of its inherent value. Plus it is an appreciating asset (most of the time)
A car is different. Buying a Nissan that has been or will be duplicated thousands of times and will depreciate is silly in my book. Personally, I would just wait. However, noone ever said a car is a good investment. There are those who need to be the first and are willing to pay. |
Tyler (Bahiaau)
Member
Username: Bahiaau
Post Number: 408
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 2:41 am: | |
Hubert, I guess I don't have a problem with it. It's supply and demand. It boils down to the "value" of being the among the first to obtain something.
It's no different than owning a house in a "fantastic" location. The worth of the house goes up even though the identical house 10 miles away may be selling for 1/10 the price.
You can call it gouging, but do the people who pay these prices really feel like they were slighted? I know a man who routinely pays ridiculous(to me) premiums to be among the first in his town to own various things. He has never felt "gouged", he pays gladly and with a smile. To him the value of being unique for even a few months is worth it.
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Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member
Username: Hugh
Post Number: 346
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 02, 2002 - 2:57 pm: | |
Willis-
I understand that Ferrari dealers are not 'allowed' to sell new car (off the waiting list) for more than MSRP, however, with the advent of never registered cars being flipped on delivery, they are, essentially, new cars, e.g. delivery miles, and the 'owner' probably never even sat in the car. I were to guess, I would say that most, if not all, new car dealer/franchises have policies in place not to sell above msrp, but somehow get away w/ it under radar. My apologies for the poor wording.
While I, personally, would never pay above MSRP, nor have I paid asking price/msrp in the past. It bothers me that dealers routinely get away w/ it!
Bret-
Not exactly F car, but on Porsches I was told that the dealer, profit scale is: ~$10-12K on 911TT's, ~$8k on carrera's, and ~$4-5k on boxster's; as 'candid' as this particular sales person may/may not have been, I don't know if I believe the figures as absoloutes, since the dealers pay a monthly fee to stock the car on the floor (which once the car sells alleviates an expense), and get a bonus (varies by marque I'm sure) from the 'factory' for moving the car, plus, no doubt, the various kick backs for meeting monthy sales, etc.
I really don't mean to go on about what seems an obvious issue, but if you relate this same idea to other 'consumer goods' then the absurdity of mark ups becomes, even more, self evident and irritating; paying $3k more for an HDTV just b/c it's a new model, or another $500 for a stove b/c its a special color?
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Willis Huang (Willis360)
Intermediate Member
Username: Willis360
Post Number: 1032
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Monday, December 02, 2002 - 2:37 pm: | |
Hubert, Ferrari dealers are not allowed to mark up the new car on the initial sale. The premiums you see are for cars on the secondary market. If you see a 360 spider listing over the MSRP at a dealership, it's a "used car".
I certainly didn't pay over MSRP for my 360 (ordered it in Feb. 2000 and delivered in April 2001). |
BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member
Username: Bretm
Post Number: 2971
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, December 02, 2002 - 2:36 pm: | |
One thing I wonder on occasion is how much dealers actually make normally when someone pays MSRP for either a 360 or a 550. WWoC near me sells on average about 8 cars a month, or so the salesman once told me, granted they are keeping the place open because of money generated in service, but they must make decent money on new cars. Does anyone have an idea? To go further, how much would a dealer make if they sold a $670,000 Enzo? |
Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member
Username: Wsawyer
Post Number: 557
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 02, 2002 - 2:34 pm: | |
Unfortunately, if we expect to be able to negotiate down in a buyer's market, the dealer has the right to negotiate up in a seller's market.
Paying $7k over list is pretty silly in my estimation. |
Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member
Username: Miami348ts
Post Number: 3340
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, December 02, 2002 - 2:18 pm: | |
Agree with Fred.
Except that even a Ferrari should not have a mark up. And there too you will lose money in the long run.
Pay $ 250K for the 360 Spider today and 2 years from now you will be sorry, same as those that paid $ 320K for the Spider a year ago! |
Fred (I Luv 4REs) (Iluv4res)
Junior Member
Username: Iluv4res
Post Number: 236
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 02, 2002 - 1:28 pm: | |
Supply and Demand.
The F-car is a limited production car that perhaps can justify a slight markup. However, the Nissan's, et al of the world are mass produced depreciating assets that I would NEVER pay a markup for. Be patient and you will be glad you did. |
Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member
Username: Hugh
Post Number: 345
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 02, 2002 - 12:48 pm: | |
With the expected debut of a number of promising new sport coupes/sedans (EVO 8, WRX STi, G35, et al.), I was curious to hear everyone's comments regarding dealer mark ups. It's seems that the 350z is already commanding a $7k mark up, at most dealers, the Mini's are also selling w/ a mark up, even the pre-owned or 'flipped' examples, and the new EVO 8 and WRX Sti will, more than likely, command a similar premuium, as will the G35 coupe, possibly? I know that a good portion of new Ferrari owners are accustom to buying w/ a premium, but is this really fair? There is a great deal of 'consumer watchdog' litigation, but nothing that address' this type of gouging, why? Is there any action a consumer could take, other than waiting until the hype is over, or simply not buying the car?
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