| Author | Message | ||
| Andrew Wanamaker (Androza)
New member Username: Androza Post Number: 1 Registered: 2-2003 |
I've been lurking for a long time now, and after seeing this post, I need to be able to ask questions. Anyway, how do you get into the timeshare business? Right now I'm studying in architecture, and while I do love architecture, I'm not sure college is really right for me. I'm thinking I'll get my real estate license over the summer, but then what? Who do I contact? Where do I look? What areas are they active in? If you can answer any of these questions, it would be a great help. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 489 Registered: 4-2002 |
TWA, anything you can give would be great. | ||
| TWA (Exoticars)
Junior Member Username: Exoticars Post Number: 86 Registered: 8-2001 |
My Internet Manager is Spanish and I advertise in both languages. I'm also in So. Fla. But I'll tell you that Spanish internet sales is very low. Maybe 1 Spanish sale for every 15 English. But that doesn't mean, don't do Spanish, just don't expect it to be a "HUGE" market on the web. It's more of an untapped market in Spanish/Portugese newspapers than on the web. Mitch, I think you are very wrong to stop the ability of e-mail on the websites. I've had Internet depts. in my stores for years and it works better to leave that option open and aggressively follow up through email. My Internet dept now does 30-40 cars/mo. in my Hyundai store. If you'd like any further advice, let me know. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 487 Registered: 4-2002 |
Robin! ... We run a clean shop here! .... ..... *runs off* | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 977 Registered: 8-2002 |
I don't know about Virginia but, here in California Spanish-speaking customers are provided with Spanish language documents as well as the standard English docs. In addition, all consumer notices that are required to be posted by the dealer in offices where customers negotioate a deal and sign documents must be posted in both English and Spanish. After all, 26% of our population here in Cali consider Spanish their primary language and it's that 26% that are largely ignored when it comes time for non-hispanic owned businesses to spend their advertising dollars. | ||
| Robin Overcash (Robin)
New member Username: Robin Post Number: 42 Registered: 1-2003 |
That actually is a really good idea. Once you get them in, put some fine print somewhere that says their interest rate will be 40%  Saw an article recently about some dealerships gouging elderly and non-english speaking people like this. Sure way to guarantee that 200k salary ;) -R | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 486 Registered: 4-2002 |
Wayne, awesome idea! I'll run the idea past him. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 975 Registered: 8-2002 |
Mitch, do this: Talk your GM into allowing you to do a Spanish language version of the site and advertise on the local Spanish radio stations or cable channels. It's a HUGELY untapped market. Of course, if ou don't speak Spanish yourself, you'll have to get some help that does. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 485 Registered: 4-2002 |
Wayne, right now, nothing other than business cards. however once the new sites are online we will add the web sites to our TV and radio spots. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 973 Registered: 8-2002 |
Mitch, the pages look pretty good to me. What type of advertising are you guys doing to draw traffic to your sites? | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 484 Registered: 4-2002 |
Wayne, I hear ya. They currently only sell 4 cars a month average from their 12 dealerships. Of course, their websites are not up to par (or even double bogie) I am hopeing for about 5 cars a dealership from I-net leads. No e-mail as I said, only schedule a test drive and phone number. I will let you know how the new system works out. I just started a few days ago, and have been home with the flu since, lol! *figures* but I did manage to make up a beta home page. Let me know what you think, I respect your opinion. http://www.firewebnetworks.com/toyotatown and http://www.firewebnetworks.com/american Thanks | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 967 Registered: 8-2002 |
Mitch, I wish you luck. Every dealer Internet Department I've seen so far has been a disappointment. Even those that manage to sell 20 or so cars a month do so without generating any real profit for the dealer. Still, I wish you lots of luck and hope that you can find a way to make a difference. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 483 Registered: 4-2002 |
Wayne, how much do I-net sales managers make? lol! I am redoing their 12 web sites right now, and creating a schedule a test drive system, and removing all e-mail - contact information from the site (only 'strokes" use that) I hope to bring the sales from 4 cars a month from online leads to 60 or so. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 966 Registered: 8-2002 |
Actually, here in SoCal, dropping interest rates have helped to maintain both the auto sales and real estate markets. I stand by the figures I posted. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 482 Registered: 4-2002 |
Well, an update on this thread. Talking to the guys I work with, business has gone way down since 9/11 but they are still making quitea good living. I would say take the numbers in this thread and bring them down by about 25% | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1253 Registered: 2-2001 |
the USA Ernesto | ||
| ken rentiers (Rentiers)
Junior Member Username: Rentiers Post Number: 59 Registered: 2-2003 |
Rodney is right. There is another factor - in our steeply progressive system of income taxation what you make and what you keep are two very different things. Once you get into six figures, if you don't have a corporate shield for your income, you will get it right between the eyeballs. Makin' it is one thing, keepin' it is another. Here is a question - only 2 countries in the world demand taxes on income earned offshore. One is Eritrea..the other? | ||
| Rodney Haas (Icars)
Junior Member Username: Icars Post Number: 156 Registered: 3-2002 |
The simple fact is that top salespeople in any field are among the highest paid members of that field. You have to be outgoing and know how to close. When I owned a communications company three of my salespeople made more than twice what I made. I was more than happy to pay them, guess who really pays the bills... My best salespeople had been engineers and understood what they were selling. Don't know about automotive sales, but in most fields, salespeople start with the garbage leads... You reserve the really good stuff for people who are proven. You have to prove yourself from the bottom. | ||
| Jere Dunham (Questioner)
Junior Member Username: Questioner Post Number: 129 Registered: 1-2003 |
I have found in some reports that I have read that commission salespeople are among the highest paid workers at this time. Yes, some professional highly educated people demand and get high salaries but most, when working for someone else, take whatever the hourly, or weekly/monthly salary is. Many times this includes benefits that do not come in the commission sales area. As is going on in the "Net Worth" thread right now, I believe that you will find that incomes have risen right along with the number of millionaires we see. Where $75,000 to $100,000 used to be considered in the upper income bracket, today we see it more in the middle and even sometimes lower middle. There are just so many people who earn much more today. Just take a drive around any growing metropolitan area. Look at all the new subdivisions going in with homes beginning in the $500,000-1,500,000 range. Where does all this money come from. I know when I was going to college (many moons ago) I expected to earn $35,000 a year when I got out. And that was considered really good back then. Now, where will $35,000 a year place you in the income ladder? I noticed a sign at a local RaceTrac Convenience store the other night that was stating they were looking for asst. mgrs. with pay beginning at $9.97 per hour with benefits. That puts an asst. mgr. at a convenience store making $22,840 per year on a 48 hour/week work schedule. That used to be considered good for someone beginning right out of college. How does it relate today? Ernest, when you ask "does the average car salesman make $80k per year" I think we need to keep it in perspective. $80,000 today is not what it was 10 years ago. Yes, it is good, but it is nowhere near spectacular. How much is your time worth?? How much is my time worth?? I think we need to re-examine our thinking and possibly adjust our thinking upward. I remember setting a goal of $50K and then $75K a year and got there. Then I upped it to $90k and got there. I have continued to up my goals for myself and somehow I attain them. I keep them realistic and attainable and have to stretch. But the results are worth it. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1251 Registered: 2-2001 |
Are you saying that the *average* salesperson makes $80k? Ernesto | ||
| TWA (Exoticars)
Junior Member Username: Exoticars Post Number: 85 Registered: 8-2001 |
I'm a GSM of a dealership so I'll chime in with some real numbers. In my Hyundai store, for example.... and it's the same for every store from KIA to Mercedes... THE SAME I SAID!!! The price of the car doesn't matter...talent and results determine income. 1. Commission only 90% of the time. 2. Salespeople make from 50k to 200k plus. I have a salesman that makes over 200k every year in my Hyundai store. 3. Avg. is around 80k. 4. Sales managers earn 80k-160k+ 5. F&I managers earn from 70k-150k+ 6. General Sales managers earn 125k-250k+ 7. General managers earn 200k-600k+ 8. There are always exceptions to these rules and these are all based on a successful store. The ranges are big because there are huge variances in talent in this business. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 481 Registered: 4-2002 |
Well, I just accepted the Internet Sales Manager position for a dealer chain in northern cal, I'll keep you posted. ;) | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 450 Registered: 4-2002 |
Interesting. | ||
| Mfennell70 (Mfennell70)
Junior Member Username: Mfennell70 Post Number: 90 Registered: 7-2001 |
One last thought: a good salesperson will make up for a terrible engineer, but a good engineer can't compensate for a terrible salesperson! Hard to believe that I'm an engineer, huh? Such blasphemy! | ||
| Mfennell70 (Mfennell70)
Junior Member Username: Mfennell70 Post Number: 89 Registered: 7-2001 |
"There are plenty of engineers making $200k, but again, as every other post points out, work your as* off, rise to the top. Top paid engineers are really managing people and projects, generating business, rather than nuts and bolts." They're not engineers anymore! They're managers/salespeople with engineering backgrounds. I agree with others that in a typical business setting it's not unusual for the engineers to be considered more expendable than the salesguys. It depends on the culture of the company. TimN will be suprised at how many people will consider engineers to be completely disposable/replaceable. "If you think about it, most of us are always "selling" something" This is absolutely true. Even the 'pure' engineer has to sell his project to management, his design to his peers, etc. | ||
| Robin Overcash (Robin)
New member Username: Robin Post Number: 16 Registered: 1-2003 |
Think he meant "-$16,000 last year, coming back to the original question." I guess he lost money selling cars last year... Which I guess is the reason "ferrari dealership" is listed as his past time instead of day-job Might be able to help him out and take that 90ts off his hands though.. hm. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 725 Registered: 8-2002 |
Martin, I've read that sentence three times now and still don't have any idea what you're trying to say. Come again? | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3768 Registered: 5-2001 |
$ 16,000 minus last your to come to the original question. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 2144 Registered: 6-2001 |
I think my people skills are decent enough. I dont know S--t about engineering or how businesses work, but thats why im here (college). I dont mind social situations, especially if they are firendly. i havent ever had to be in one that was strictly business, but im hoping that business situations will be friendly atmospheres. does this happen? engineers need to be salesman of sorts. you have to sell your ideas to recieve funding from your employer or possibly the gov't. I agree good salesman can be hard to find, but i would venture to guess a good engineer would be even harder to find. My basis for this is A good salesman is probably alot like a lawyer, they can make you think something you previouly refused to think. we all know how many lawyers there are in the world | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
Member Username: Bahiaau Post Number: 482 Registered: 12-2001 |
I gotta agree with you again Allan. Good salespeople are hardly replaceable. If you are good, you will be fought over, pampered and treated like royalty by any company you represent. It's damn hard to find a great salesperson and twice as hard to keep them. | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Junior Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 181 Registered: 11-2002 |
TimN: There are plenty of engineers making $200k, but again, as every other post points out, work your as* off, rise to the top. Top paid engineers are really managing people and projects, generating business, rather than nuts and bolts. They're using their highly developed problem solving skills, people-centric. Stick with what you love to do, the success will follow. I do agree that sales skills are incredibly valuable. If you think about it, most of us are always "selling" something, it may just be our opinion on a subject, or convincing our spouse we "need" the new Ferrari. The people skills will pay off big. I know a very intelligent engineer/ scientist. Brilliant. But he hides from many social situations and cannot handle conflict of any kind, takes it too personally even though it's just business. He will not make it to the top as a result. But maybe he just wants to work in a box and be happy, who knows? He won't make $200k / year, though. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 300 Registered: 6-2002 |
I disagree on the salesperson is a replaceable person. Good salespeople are hard to find, and every place i have worked, people bend over backwords to please them, adjust schedules, vacation time and huge bonus's to keep them happy. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 2137 Registered: 6-2001 |
Thats how i see it too. Also, it seems like a salesman is a replaceable person. An engineer with his/her 6+ years of education isnt, especially if they went to a good school and finished at the top of their calss and have experience like internships, etc. with that said, its still easier for women engineers to get hired which i think is complete bullshit. this could mean a less qualified person gets a job instead of me simply because this person is female. its sort of like affirmative action...complete bullshit. The thing with engineering is its not someting peole can just go out and be if they feel like it like sales. they have to put in the studying, summers of unpaid internships, etc. bottom line is that i want to like what i do. If you know any engineers that are making 200k, tell me where they work. i want a job there in a few years. | ||
| Mfennell70 (Mfennell70)
Junior Member Username: Mfennell70 Post Number: 88 Registered: 7-2001 |
For TimN's benefit: Sales vs. Engineering, as I see it: Sales: EZ to get into, difficult to be successful at. Sky's the limit. A few people make a ton of money. Many people make little money. Engineering: Hard to get into, easy to make a living. Many people make decent money. I would guess that almost noone makes big money (say >$200k?) as a pure engineer. Final thought: if engineering is what you want to do, do it. It wouldn't hurt to try sales in some capacity though. The lessons you learn will carry over into everything you do. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 2483 Registered: 9-2001 |
sorry, I hope you did not think I was implying that - it was funny it was in Arizona - I just know a lot has been written about time shares and scams | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 298 Registered: 6-2002 |
Tom thats how i make all my money!lol | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 2480 Registered: 9-2001 |
In the WSJ this am Scam Artist Change their Game ....In October, Arizona regualtors files suit in state court agaisnt One Vision Childrens Foundation and several others. The complaint alleged that the defendants used an annuitiy program to fleece elderly inestors nationwide out of more than 4 million. Unbenownst to investors some 30% of their money went to sales agent commissions and much of the rest went into speculative investments in time share operations involving mexican condos. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 296 Registered: 6-2002 |
Timeshare had alot of negative feedback in the past. It has changed drasticly. It is one of the only industries that has had tremendous growth sine 9/11, but it is also not at all like the industry it was before. | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
Member Username: Mojo Post Number: 267 Registered: 9-2002 |
If what everyone says is true, Then im mad as hell. They make to much profit on car's. Most salesman i've met were lying dirtbags who have no morals. But the more expensive the car's the higher quality the salesman. I guess I should stop looking at the toyota, nissan, GM dealerships. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 720 Registered: 8-2002 |
Okay, I didn't read all of the posts here, so if I'm repeating something I apologize. I think that, though none of you know me personally, most of you are familiar enough with my posts on this forum to know that I wouldn't bullshit you. Anyway, I've spent the last 12 years in the automotive sales business here in Southern California. I started as a salesman, worked as a closer, and spent many years in F&I as both an F&I manager and as F&I director. My wife was also a car salesperson until she recently quit to run our own used car dealership. So to answer your question, here in So Cal, this is what car salesmen make per month: Salesmen: weak=$2500-$3500 per month, average=$3500-$6000 per month, strong=$6000 and up. My wife averaged around $120K per year but she was consistantly one of the top salespeople at both of the dealerships she has worked at. Closers and F&I managers: weak=$6000-$8000, average=$8000-$14000, strong=$14000 and up. I know several good closers, as well as F&I managers that earn around $20,000 per month. I personally averaged between $12000 and $16000 per month as an F&I manager. Desk managers (sometimes referred to as sales managers or new car/used car managers): This is not usually dependent on the individual's strength or weakness because these positions pay commission on the dealer's entire profit from the sales and finance department. Still, the weaker people end up at weaker dealerships while the stronger get better jobs. I've seen some desk managers at smaller stores making $12000 per month while I personally have friends that earn $35000 per month at a large volume dealership that I worked at for many years. As an F&I director, I am paid similarly to the desk manager position and average somewhere above the lowest and below the highest numbers I stated for them. Now I am aware that So Cal is a huge automotive market and that these figures might not apply elsewhere. As for import vs domestic, it makes no difference here. Just to put things into perspective, the smallest dealers here sell approximately 75-150 cars per month while the largest sell between 750-1000 per month. And then there is Longo Toyota, the largest volume dealership of any kind in the world that sells over 2000 cars a month. Still, the positions there pay less than some smaller (but still large) dealerships. | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
Member Username: Bahiaau Post Number: 480 Registered: 12-2001 |
Fred you are exactly right. | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
Member Username: Bahiaau Post Number: 479 Registered: 12-2001 |
Jim, there is a lot of opportunity in medical sales. You're friends example sounds pretty realistic. Most of the drug reps I know are women also. I wouldn't do pharm. sales though. Getting in the door is tough. I had no medical background and I don't have a college degree. I have done lots of different things from owning multiple restaurants to owning a car detailing business. I have had failures as well as successes. Become the best salesman in an industry and people from all walks of life will approach you to sell their product. I was asked to get involved in medical sales. Howie, you have mail. | ||
| Fred (I Luv 4REs) (Iluv4res)
Member Username: Iluv4res Post Number: 313 Registered: 8-2002 |
Money in any industry is in the 3 most important questions: 1) what are you going to make? If you invent it or own patent/copywright/intellectual rights, you get $$$. 2) how are you going to make it? Manufacturing, import/export, design etc. Again, $$$ 3) who's going to get it? sales, marketing, etc.. $$$ In most industries, salespeople are often the highest paid. That's because sales abilities are a gift that you either have or don't have. You can teach virtually anyone about numbers, facts, etc... for 'book smarts', but it's almost impossible to teach 'street smarts' and/or sales/people skills. Also, some posts indicated that the salary ranges are for the top tier and/or 20%. Well, in ANY industry/job, the top 20% make the industry appealing. For example, there are Attorney's that make $30k per year and some that make millions. It is a gross generalization to say that someone should be an Attorney because the top 20% make millions. There are tons of ways to skin a cat. Do what you enjoy and the $$ will follow. Don't follow the $$ because there will always be others with more $$ and it will eventually make what your doing unenjoyable. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 2474 Registered: 9-2001 |
with all the negative publicity timeshares get you still find people willing to buy them? I would be curious if anyone on this board has bought one? | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 2127 Registered: 6-2001 |
I guess im headed for a career change, provided i am good at selling stuff. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 405 Registered: 4-2002 |
Allan, this is very interesting to me. I am a ful time independent consultent in the advertising community, can you tell me a little about your work? Lol, every guy I know loves talking about their job, spill the beans man. Also, how can I learn to drive like you? I just burnt out the clutch on my c5 for the second time, and I hear your countach lasted 50k miles? I could only do that if I converted my car over to automatic, lol! | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 295 Registered: 6-2002 |
Tim, There is a skill in selling anything, everyone thinks it is easy but it is not. You either have it, or you dont. It is difficult to get someone who really just came in for a free presentation to spend 25,000. Its so funny that you said the drawback is saying you are a TIMESHARE salesman. Because we laugh just the opposite, when doctors, lawyers, etc come in, and think theyre soo much better than people. It was the same in the car business, then we see their credit apps, mortgaged to hilt, bad credit, working a 100hrs a week, stressed to no end, and many of them making 50-75,000 yearly. Especially the lawyers, they really think theyre special. Many always ask my wife why she would ever leave Medical device sales to sell timeshare. She laughs at them, because little do they know, in the last 6 months she's cleared over 150,000, loves her job, has no stress, and work 1/10 of what they do.They can keep their titles. Even though i dont actually sell timeshares, when ever people see me in the Lambo, they always ask what i do. I always answer Timeshare Sales and watch them fall over. A recent example also is, i just refinanced my home, and did it through a customer who came in to see timeshare. Not only did the mortgage broker fall over when she saw our income statements,homes and cars, She is now in the process of switching professions, and her husband is getting a real estate license to become Timeshare salespeople. My sister went to school for 8 years to be an optometrist, works 60 hours a week, has 100,000 in loans to payback and makes about 80,000 yearly. Job titles mean nothing to me, happiness in what you do, income and quality of life are what matter to me. | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 691 Registered: 7-2002 |
Seems that all the med sales folks I know are women drug reps. What are you selling? I know a friend of a friend that is in med sales. He does something where they rent surgical equip to the hospital for procedures they don't perform very often. He oversees the surgery and inventories all the equip. He started at $100K base I was told. Any truth to this and if so how do you get in? He had no med background, but argued his way in by saying...was it easier to teach someone about medical or teach someone to sell. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 2123 Registered: 6-2001 |
Allan, there has to be a skill involved in selling timeshares, otherwise everyone would do it. Whats involved in getting a real estate licenese? From what i can tell, it sounds as if you are saying that if i were a few years older in my mid 20's i can just walk onto the timeshare salesman job, with no experience and earn over 100k with 25 hour work weeks? I guess the catch is that you will be known as a timeshare salesman.... | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 294 Registered: 6-2002 |
I was in the car business, and my first advice is to carefully choose the dealer you work for. Some are Much better than others. Some will be an enormous grind as described in some of the other posts. It is true that 20% of the people make 80% of the sales. It is all in the mind, if you cant deal with rejection and bounce it off your chest and get onto the next customer, you will never last. I disagree on the desk guy salary, as ive never seen a deskguy make more than 75,000. It is the easiest job in the dealer, all he does is type the numbers into the computer to pull out the sales and lease figures. As for medical sales, it is a great field, my wife, 24 years of age, was pulling in over 150,000 yearly, working 30 hour work weeks. It also has tremendous benefits, including ins,free car,free gas, lots of perks. I will let you know an industry which will shock you though, the TIMESHARE Industry. This is the industry i left the car business for. Salespeople earn minimum of 100,000, and on a floor of 15 people, the top 8 earn well over 250,000, with the top earner last year making just under 400,000. Oh, did i mention the rough 25hr work weeks and the trips to anywhere in the world for free? Woman in this sales field usually do better than men, but have you ever seen a field you can walk into, no qualifications required except real estate license and make 30,000 your first month just as my wife did? | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 2122 Registered: 6-2001 |
GM's make a LOT. I'm not expecting to make anywhere near that much because mech. engineers just simply dont get payed that much. It seems like its hard to be a dealer. while its hard to get an engineering degree (education wise), depending onthe job market, i shouldnt have *too* hard a time getting a job. | ||
| Jere Dunham (Questioner)
New member Username: Questioner Post Number: 33 Registered: 1-2003 |
I need to insert something here. I was talking with a friend last night who has been in auto sales for about 20 years, so I assume he knows of what he speaks. He has held jobs from sales apprentice to GM. He says that auto sales is a tough field and if you are not geared toward perseverance and determination you should not enter it. It requires long hours. A normal work week is to work from Monday thru Friday from 8am to 9pm and on Saturday from 9am to 7pm. Some dealers are now open on Sundays in some states so you might need to add an extra day. In working six days, and allowing an hour for lunch, it looks like a 69 hour work week to me. He says some dealerships are now offering 401K's but none that he knows of offers a retirement program as such and only pays the insurance on the principal employee. The employee must pay the insurance for the rest of the family. Commission only in most cases. If you sell you get rewarded but if not-nothing. He says that over the years he has seen on the average 20%of the salespeople make 80% of the sales and make good livings. The other 80% of the salespeople get the bottom feedings and scrimp for a living. He says these are the ones you have the problems with because they view you only as a $$$ walking through the door and take no personal interest in you. A true "PROFESSIONAL SALESPERSON" takes the time to get to know your needs and desires and works together with you to reach a reasonable solution to what you are wanting to accomplish. The "bottom feeder" goes for the throat and promises you anything to get you to buy. He knows he can do this and not have to deliver because he will probably not be there when you come back to take him up on it. Either that or if he happens to still be there he will deny he ever promised it. My friend says to look for the sales leader board and do not just look for last months leader but look for the long-term consistent leader. This is the true professional and one more likely to be one you would desire to do business with. He says the true leaders in the auto sales field spend many hours studying their product so they can discuss intelligently with the buyer and learn as much as they can about the competitive models also. The true professional does not join in the circle of guys (dope ring) standing just outside the door smoking, drinking coffee and complaining about how the world is handing them a crock. He is inside creating his own reality. But then again, he is in a minority of 2 in 10. Just my observations from someone who has been in the auto sales business for a long time. BTW, he would not tell me how much he makes but did say a true professional will earn in the 6 figure range. A non-professional will be low 5 digits if he makes it that long. | ||
| Mfennell70 (Mfennell70)
Junior Member Username: Mfennell70 Post Number: 86 Registered: 7-2001 |
"Jesus, 50-80k a year?! Why did i go to college? In the 4 years i could make 200k-320k AND save my parents the 140K cost of college." Do some investigation about what car sales is really like and I bet you'll be singing a different tune. Brutal hours, cut throat competition, very pyramid-like pay scale. Off on a tangent, I was talking to my accountant the other day and he was telling me what he has a client who has been making 1.5-2 MILLION dollars/year for many years. Would you believe this guy has practically no net worth? Just spends it all. Doesn't even own any of his (many) houses! | ||
| Jere Dunham (Questioner)
New member Username: Questioner Post Number: 32 Registered: 1-2003 |
Test | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 690 Registered: 7-2002 |
Just about any sales will reward you if you are good. Here are a few examples from various fields that friends are in. Swimming Pools. $127K Mortgages. $178K Car Finance. $345K Bank Finance. $450K IT Recruiter. $100K to $707K All of the people I am referring to are very good and work very hard. They never stop. Type A personalities. Not really greasy salesmen, but they never stop down and watch TV etc. All are very insecure and need somebody around them at all times. They hate to be alone, they eat out almost every night. They have wives that act more like maids than wives. They are driven individuals and need thier support group to make it all work. | ||
| Howie/ExoticAutoBrokers.com (Brokerofexotics)
Member Username: Brokerofexotics Post Number: 355 Registered: 11-2001 |
Tyler, What kind of surgical sales are you involved with? Please feel free to e-mail me at [email protected]. I am very curious. Thank you! | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 404 Registered: 4-2002 |
Lol, I have to know, what is a "Deskmen" | ||
| Nebula Class (Nebulaclass)
Junior Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 173 Registered: 11-2002 |
Average? About 18k - 25k per year. Keep in mind that MOST people don't last more than 2 months in the biz. Top guys? Well, your "average" top of the board kind of guy would pull 70k - 100k. Closers? About 80k - 150k. F&I? 100k - 200k. Deskmen? 150k - 250k. GSM? 200k - 275k. GM? 250k - 600k. Owner? Sky's the limit..... F-cars? Well, let me say that I made 22k in ONE day. Not common by ANY standards, but it did happen. Sold two 360 Spiders to two dudes. 11k in commisions/car. I've had great months, and I've had BAAAAAAAAAAAD months. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 403 Registered: 4-2002 |
How about that. I only pull in a little over 140k. I am in the wrong business! | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
Member Username: Bahiaau Post Number: 478 Registered: 12-2001 |
Mitchell, I have to back Allan up on this one. I have several good friends who are G.M.s and make $250K+ annually. I guess I'm surprised that you guys underestimated what salespeople make. I'm in sales(surgical and software) and I do very well. If you are in the top of your field sales can be a very rewarding career. I have a several close friends who earn almost seven figures annually who are in sales of all types(everything from life insurance to paint). Tim, get your education first then go into sales. I'd advise medical sales or insurance sales. Medical has been good to me. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 293 Registered: 6-2002 |
Funny Mitchell, But i speak from experience as i was the Director of Finance for the dealer i was referring to. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 402 Registered: 4-2002 |
Ah yes, the exageration king is here. ;) Lol. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 292 Registered: 6-2002 |
I can tell you guys exactly what car salesman make. For example, VW salespeople and Bmw salespeople in Ft Laud Fl. The TOP 5 VW salespeople were making 70-90,000 yearly. The remaining salesman would make 35-50k yearly. Anyone producing less would be fired. This is out of a relatively small dealer, with roughly 10-12 salespeople. Now for Bmw salesman, top guys, been there for awhile, are making 120-160,000. Average sales people were in the 60-80,000 range. Same holds true for Mercedes. As for Porsche, i know for a fact the top salesperson at Champion Porsche makes 250,000 yearly, consistently! Btw, he drives a Ferrai 355,Custom Porsche, or his Jag Xj12. It is not uncommon for a someone with no experience to be able to walk in, get a job and make 100,000 yearly in the car business right off the bat. You will work long hours, have good benefits, and lots of potential for advancement. The most profitable positions are Finance Directors and Gm's. Were education is not a priority and experience is. Earnings potential in these areas can easily exceed 250,000 yearly. | ||
| Chris Horner (Cmhorner17)
Junior Member Username: Cmhorner17 Post Number: 71 Registered: 4-2002 |
I did car sales for about three years, and did both import (Toyota/Acura) and domestic (Lincoln/Mercury). It was RARE that someone made over $40k at any of the three dealers. Believe it or not, the lowest paid people were at the Acura dealer! And I worked for the largest Acura dealer in Michigan. The ones who made lots o' bucks had been there many years, slogged through all the hard times and had built their clientle to the point where they only waited on their own customers. They deserved the success, and were truly good salespeople. They were also by far the exception. It's a steep and expensive learning curve for the first several years. That's why there is such a high turnover in that business. Oh yeah - and they all lied about what kind of money they were REALLY making. They tended to skew their income high. There seems to be a lot of turnover of salespeople at the local Ferrari dealer here, and from what I've gathered (admittdely through the rumor mill) is that there was little money in it. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 401 Registered: 4-2002 |
Somehow, these numbers seem high to me. They sound more like the old: Make up to: $$$! or Our top producers make: $$$!! In reality I would imagine most make quite a bit less. Lol, but what would I know. I make websites and consult for a living. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 2118 Registered: 6-2001 |
Jesus, 50-80k a year?! Why did i go to college? In the 4 years i could make 200k-320k AND save my parents the 140K cost of college. I'll be lucky if i make 50k when i graduate, if all goes as planned, with a mech. engineering degree from one of the best ME programs around at a really good college. i work my ass off in school learning crap that lots of people dont even know exists when i could be selling cars... | ||
| Jeff B. (Miltonian)
Junior Member Username: Miltonian Post Number: 86 Registered: 12-2002 |
I spent about 20 years working various jobs at new car dealerships, before I got totally sick of it. I got to know lots and lots of salespeople, some of them really nice, some of them absolute jerks. No matter how much money they made, they had one thing in common. I have NEVER encountered such a group of helpless crybabies. They ALWAYS expect someone else to do the work. They are NEVER satisfied with how much money they make on a deal. I would look at the sales board and see how much bonus money they were making every month, and it would make me sick. Other employess would work their asses off and never, ever get a slice of the "pie". The title clerk would be up to her eyebrows in work - did she get a bonus? The service advisors would have 10 people at the counter and 10 calls on hold while the salesmen were deciding who would go out for lattes. They would promise things they couldn't deliver, they were always losing keys, or locking them inside cars, or forgetting to do this or that. I never worked with ONE who deserved much respect. Money for nothin' and yer chicks for free..... | ||
| martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
Member Username: Mw360 Post Number: 756 Registered: 5-2001 |
Believe it or not,with some exceptions the big money is made by used car salesmen (especially the "closers") than new car store salespeople.There is a higher average car sale profit in used cars.Depending on the deal the salesperson has made with the store they get 25%-35% of the profit.100K /yr is possible in a very busy used car lot. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 399 Registered: 4-2002 |
50k - 80k a year? How about that. That's more than I would have expected from that line of work. | ||
| Jere Dunham (Questioner)
New member Username: Questioner Post Number: 30 Registered: 1-2003 |
Oh, and Mitchell. I think that for those salespeople out there who have chosen the sales field to be their profession, I believe you are making too broad a statement when you call them "unskilled labor who lie about everything else". They chose this field to excell in and do what is required to make a living at it over many years. These are the ones you can trust and turn to when you have questions about cars. Unfortunately, there are the criminals who will invade every profession and make a mockery of it and give it a bad name. It is just too widespread in the auto sales industry. But, I believe that if you will keep up with the news you will find this same kind of stuff in medicine, sports, law, government, computers and many more fields. We all need to really examine each of those we choose to do business with and associate with. If something feels wrong, walk the other way. We have our choices to make and it is up to us to make good choices. I have been burned in cars, and also clothes, health clubs, lumber stores, and probably many things that I have never discovered. I am certainly not an expert but I attempt to not make any general sweeping judgements unless they are warranted. | ||
| Jere Dunham (Questioner)
New member Username: Questioner Post Number: 29 Registered: 1-2003 |
From the different salespeople I know, it seems as though each individual dealership has it's own pay plan. Saturn for instance has salary only plus performance bonuses for more cars sold. Many doemestic dealerships have a commission only pay plan but the salespeople get paid what is called a "mini" deal because the profit on most domestic sales is based on compoetition and it is all a numbers game. $100 is usually the mini commission. To make $4K-$6k per month in a domestic store means selling a lot of cars. The average car salesperson (notice I say average) delivers roughly 10-12 cars per month. (Average!!) The average number of deliveries per month stays the same in import stores but the commission structure and profit range changes, offering better compensation. It is usually in the import store where the salespeople make the most money. You should be able to do $50k-$80K per year full-time in a Toyota, M/B, BMW, Nissan, Audi, Porsche store if you really apply yourself. Quite a few I talk to seem to make more than that. But then, they seem to be a cut above "average". I mean that in a good way. Not all salespeople are "sleazeballs and liars" as the stereotype holds. It just takes some searching to find those. And they are the ones who seem to make more as well they should. I believe that even in the top end, Ferrari, Lambo, Lotus etc., the pay is still based off the profit generated on each sale and not the total price of the car. If you only sell 4-5 top end cars a month, it seems the pay would reflect that. I heard that the mark-up on these upper end cars is less than you would think. Probably due to low production - high cost factors. Then again, I could be wrong, but I do not think so. | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
Member Username: Kennyh Post Number: 539 Registered: 8-2001 |
Jordan, I'm 99% sure its usually commision based... I know a guy who has been working as a dealer at a Ferrari dealership for the past 25+ years, and has been sales manager for at least 10, and says he still can't afford a Ferrari... | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 398 Registered: 4-2002 |
Lol, don't do it! ;) | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Junior Member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 227 Registered: 12-2002 |
Good question. Im considering trying to work as a salesman at a better dealership through college...F-car dealership hopefully Do they work commission or sallary? Im assuming commission so if you could sell a couple 200k cars every once in a while it seems like you couldnt be too bad off | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 397 Registered: 4-2002 |
I have always wondered, so I asked a few of htem this weekend. They all said around 4 - 6k a month. Doesn't that seem a little high for unskilled labor? Lol! Since they lie about everything else, I thought someone here might know. |