| Author |
Message |
William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member
Username: Countachxx
Post Number: 2103
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 10:52 pm: | |
I'm sure the Chinese want Taiwan, I'm sure they wouldnt mind taking Tokyo & Sidney also.
Right now China is the only country that can casue the US military a bad hair day with its 1.5 Billion population. I think they are just using NK to test the US to see what happens
I think Kim Jong IL is 99% talk. He wants to extort the west for $. He knows if he ever goes to war the US will squash him like a bug. Its not in his interest to fight, he wont get paid if he fights & he might get killed |
Willis Huang (Willis360)
Intermediate Member
Username: Willis360
Post Number: 1174
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 12:44 pm: | |
I think this whole North Korea situation has China's fingerprints all over it. They're testing the U.S. and it's allies in the region for weaknesses. They probably figure that if we're distracted enough, they could make a move on Taiwan, their ultimate prize. |
Willis Huang (Willis360)
Intermediate Member
Username: Willis360
Post Number: 1173
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 12:25 pm: | |
It's not just CDs and software they're pirating. Small joint ventures also. You go back home (US, HK, Europe, etc.) for a while then return to China only to find that you're locked out of your own company. Legal recourse in China is nil. |
William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member
Username: Countachxx
Post Number: 2100
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 7:30 am: | |
Tyler, seesm you also realize that the Chinese civilization has been around for near 5,000 years vs 500 since Columbus arrived in the Americas and only 227 as a nation. Thus the Chinese have a different perspective on time , they see time as it pertains to dynasty's & this communist dynasty has been around since WW2.
Just wait till the Chinese discover that piracy is easier than capitalism the look out.
oooops, I guess the Chinese already discovered that when pirating CDs & software |
Tyler (Bahiaau)
Member
Username: Bahiaau
Post Number: 591
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 1:15 am: | |
William, Willis, Dave, I think you're all exactly right about China. They have a long history of being murderous thugs.
So I ask, what is the long term solution to this problem? Too often I think we(Americans) think of short term solutions while the Chinese are thinking 200 years down the road. |
Willis Huang (Willis360)
Intermediate Member
Username: Willis360
Post Number: 1172
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 10:24 am: | |
William's right on about China.
|
William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member
Username: Countachxx
Post Number: 2097
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 9:43 am: | |
the Chinese leaders are interested in power & world domination. $ is only of interest to them as a tool to reach their goals.
for centuries before the 20th C China had a special relationship with Tibet. The Dalai Lamas were the Emperor's special spiritual advisor, then came Mao the communist atheist and the Chinese army murdered over 2 million Tibetans destroyed over 6,000 temples and is still trying to destroy Tibetan culture. Tibet was a warning to the world about what happens when China loses interest in your country |
MFZ (Kiyoharu)
Junior Member
Username: Kiyoharu
Post Number: 54
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 11:25 pm: | |
Oh, so that's what it's called. Yes, I think I know what MAD might be. I am a member of IEEE, and in the January issue of the society's magazine, IEEE Spectrum, there was an article that touched upon this issue.
It's not a theory, I think it is something that the US and Russia do have in practice. I don't know if the article is still up, but try this link:
www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/publicfeature/jan03/elude.html
Might be the same thing we are talking about. |
Horsefly (Arlie)
Member
Username: Arlie
Post Number: 849
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 10:35 pm: | |
MAD is Mutual Assured Destruction. A term that dates back to the cold war between America and Russia. The theory is that neither country would launch a nuclear attack on the other because the other country would surely retaliate. Thus a condition of Mutually Assured Destruction. Nobody wins.
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MFZ (Kiyoharu)
Junior Member
Username: Kiyoharu
Post Number: 51
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 10:29 pm: | |
Horsefly has a point there. Why would they? And what is MAD? |
Horsefly (Arlie)
Member
Username: Arlie
Post Number: 846
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 8:00 pm: | |
Why would China want to destroy its best retail customer, the United States? Any idea how many millions of dollars worth of business that China makes off their products that are sold in the United States? Why would they ever risk upsetting that incredibly successful financial applecart?
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William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member
Username: Countachxx
Post Number: 2095
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 6:40 pm: | |
N Korea is China's pit bull, as Dave aka maranello man said the Chinese probably put NK up to this to see how the US would react & if the US really could succesfully wage 2 wars simultaneously.
NK is so poor & has such few resources they are a paper tiger, but they have a few bombs & Chinese support which could make them a real tiger, Could be a new cold war.
The US has around 40,000 troops in SK which NK could kill immediately, in other words the US has about 40,000 potential hostages in SK, bad plan guys |
ross koller (Ross)
Member
Username: Ross
Post Number: 759
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 4:49 pm: | |
mfz, we may have found some common ground here. you are correct in your risk analysis. but i still think that MAD will deter nkorea from nuking japan. now skorea is a different problem. nkorea could harm skorea by conventional means, and this would put the usa in some obligation to help them out....or would it. if you view this dilemma from the old perspective then we would have to go on and somehow release the 'hostages'. on the other hand, the skoreans currently want us out of their country and are convinced their sunshine policy will win the north over. there is probably little danger of nkorea successfully exporting their version of communism/jong il cultism to any other country, so the old 'domino effect' is no longer an issue. and skorea currently is more of an exporter to our market than we are to theirs. so viewed very coldly, we could feel that we no longer have a sufficient stake in skorean welfare to care that much about nkoreas current belicose manner.
now if the surrounding countries felt like they needed a hand in sorting out the neighborhood moron, then we would probably oblige, even in the new scenario.
i am getting to like this neo-foreign policy. |
MFZ (Kiyoharu)
New member
Username: Kiyoharu
Post Number: 49
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 2:43 pm: | |
Interesting thoughts there. However, according to recent news, the US has decide to handle N. Korea using a multi-lateral approach, something that I think the US should have done with Iraq.
The only country threatened by North Korea might only be South Korea and Japan.
Actually, a threat to Japan is perceived as a threat to US as well. Japan doesn't have a 'proper military' (they have a self-defense force, better equipped than most countries, but technically it can only used to defend), and the agreement after World War II is that if Japan is attacked, the US, as it's ally, must help out.
As for South Korea, the US has military bases there, as you probably know, to help out in case the North Koreans decide to break the truce and resume the war (technically, the two countries are still at war).
I think they are indeed taking advantage of the situation in Iraq. However, you can't confuse between the two of them. N.K. really do have nuclear capabilities, while Iraq might even have none.
Success in Iraq may not amount to much when negotiating with the North Koreans. They could always say that the US beat an already weakened opponent, so it might fare differently when the US and N.Ks. go at it.
Also, China and Russia won't take a stand against the N. Koreans because they are big allies of the North Koreans (they shared certain communist ideologies), not because they can't handle them.
|
ross koller (Ross)
Member
Username: Ross
Post Number: 747
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 9:56 am: | |
true something should be done. the question is whether anybody else feels that way as well. for example, so far you have skorea, japan, china, and russia, and most everybody else, saying that the usa should open bilateral discussions with nkorea as they have asked. the usa has said that the threat posed is one for these other countries as well, so why doesn't everybody get around a table to discuss how we can help the nkoreans out of their food and energy crisis. nobody wants to know.
at which point i would say to all of them: you can't have it both ways; you don't want us involved in iraq or other places, but you do want us to get involved in nkorea? who is most threatened by nkorea, the usa or you people (probably specifically skorea and japan).
nkorea is obviously an issue due to their impending nuclear capability; however as crazy as kim jong il probably is, he can probably be deterred by MAD, more easily than he can be forcibly disarmed. furthermore, although it is true that nkorea provides armaments for many tinpot countries (eg yemen), these are tracked and catalogued pretty well, and therefore not yet a significant danger to us. what they don't yet seem to have done is provided arms or safe haven for islamic terrorism, which is much more difficult to monitor, and perceived to be more of a danger to the usa specifically.
it is clear that nkorea is acting up at the moment to try and bother us when they perceive us as vulnerable to their demands; and possibly to help iraq with a common enemy. but that crisis will wait till after iraq is cleaned up, and possibly the state dept is banking on success in iraq to help out future discussions on nkorea. |
Brian C Thenhaus (1day)
New member
Username: 1day
Post Number: 6
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 9:35 am: | |
A couple of threads have addressed the Iraq situation, but what about N. Korea? In some ways, I think that N. Korea may be in a more desparate position that Iraq. I am quite suprised that Japan, China and Russia are not showing more concern for the situation. The last thing we need is conflict on two separate regions, but something will have to be done about N. Korea in the not too distant future IMHO. |
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