| Author | Message | ||
| Dr. J C928 (Attitude928)
New member Username: Attitude928 Post Number: 27 Registered: 11-2002 |
They are both great types of cars, but in different ways. Enzo Ferrari gave his cars a heritage, being the guiding hand behind the triumphant Alfa Romeo racing team (11 Mille Miglia & 4 consecutive Le Mans wins) until he retired from them in 1939. You know the rest. The Japanese companies have a meager heritage. Toyota has the '65 2000GT & Honda has Senna's NSX that did punch holes in the 348 from a performance & build standpoint. But Ferrari did respond in a big way (as usual). The ricer cars are a blast and cheaper to purchase & run (so why not enjoy 'em and don't fuss if they blow-up). My WRX always wants to be driven hard. I've driven it in the worst weather conditions and even across frozen rivers & lakes. A Ferrari, or even a Lambo or old Maser are still cooler & have more soul. Life can take hard turns, so why not enjoy the twisty turns in both. | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 523 Registered: 9-2002 |
Mark, hahaha..isnt that the case. NSXs are the unloved stepchildren of the exotics. | ||
| Schnelles Fr�ulein (Miss_m_treiber)
New member Username: Miss_m_treiber Post Number: 20 Registered: 4-2003 |
and dave i'm sure there are many people who like ferraris and imports.. i can appreciate a ferrari, sure.. but its easy to go out and buy a fast vehicle, it takes a lot more dedication to build one yourself. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1099 Registered: 5-2002 |
Actually, I'm glad to see the increase in Japanese vehicle performance products. This means they will be able to travel to the salvage yards even faster that before. The quicker that they "redline" themselves into the salvage yard, the better. Just "Mechanical Darwinism" taking its course. | ||
| Mark Lambert (Mlambert890)
Junior Member Username: Mlambert890 Post Number: 80 Registered: 4-2002 |
"so, really all your paying for is a name." Well, sure... Kind of at least. I never understood why there's such a huge stigma attached to the concept. Armani suits, Rolex watches, high-priced addresses... All of these things have perfectly functional equivalents that are the same, and sometimes better, in terms of actual utility. Luxury items have a value that transcends utility and there's nothing wrong with that. For those that desire them, these items invoke feelings that other items cannot: these feelings have value. If luxury for it's own sake isn't your thing, then you are lucky in many ways and can be perfectly happy with a Supra or RX7 and never desire a Ferrari or Lambo. Some people even wear their refusal to acknowledge the intrinsic value of luxury items as a kind of badge of honor. Whatever floats your boat... I think as an NSX owner I'm closer to this argument than Ferrari folks. NSX owners hear the "overpriced waste of money" thing from the other import owners way more than Ferrari owners ever would... | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Advanced Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 2919 Registered: 6-2001 |
Lets get one thing straight. THere is a difference between a "ricer" and a "fast japanese import". Some "fast japanese imports" may appear as ricers though. Suprisingly, the philosophy behind the import car craze isnt that much different than ferrari's philosophy- having a car that is unique and personalized. Dont get me wrong, i think alot of modified imports are ugly as hell. They still deserve respect though (the fast ones). | ||
| Stephen S. Saia (Sssaia)
New member Username: Sssaia Post Number: 17 Registered: 4-2003 |
Um...Dave, let me tell you before you make an even bigger ass of yourself, this is in the Off Topic thread because it's not related only to Ferraris. Off Topic was made for post like these...:rolleyes: | ||
| DaveE (Banzaiboxr)
Junior Member Username: Banzaiboxr Post Number: 122 Registered: 8-2002 |
My education is fine thank you and please understand this is a FERRARI website and not for RICERS! | ||
| DaveE (Banzaiboxr)
Junior Member Username: Banzaiboxr Post Number: 121 Registered: 8-2002 |
I share the road with everyone but these guys want only trouble.I have 2 rock chip on my windshield to proof it.I do not race and this guy just spun his tires in front of me and BAM! | ||
| Schnelles Fr�ulein (Miss_m_treiber)
New member Username: Miss_m_treiber Post Number: 19 Registered: 4-2003 |
you mean as far as gawking? about 75% of the population will never be able to afford a ferrari so you cant blame people for wanting to look. | ||
| DaveE (Banzaiboxr)
Junior Member Username: Banzaiboxr Post Number: 120 Registered: 8-2002 |
If you lived in Los Angeles and have these bastards all around your car whenever you go for a weekend drive you would feel the same. | ||
| Schnelles Fr�ulein (Miss_m_treiber)
New member Username: Miss_m_treiber Post Number: 18 Registered: 4-2003 |
dave- that is a really uncalled for comment, and just shows your lack of education.. | ||
| DaveE (Banzaiboxr)
Junior Member Username: Banzaiboxr Post Number: 119 Registered: 8-2002 |
These Ricers are to young and still lack the proper education to understand what a Ferrari is. This thread should have started in a High School Chat Room .Why is this here???????? | ||
| Schnelles Fr�ulein (Miss_m_treiber)
New member Username: Miss_m_treiber Post Number: 17 Registered: 4-2003 |
so, really all your paying for is a name. | ||
| Tony Fuisz (Fuiszt)
Junior Member Username: Fuiszt Post Number: 88 Registered: 10-2002 |
I sold my TT supra to buy my Ferrari. The supra was as fast as anything else, and was great on the track. Tough too-It could do an all day track run and need nothing more than tires and gas. I've driven a 355 and a 360 and I say the supra was faster in real world driving. And it never broke. I always wanted a ferrari though. I sold it and never looked back | ||
| Gabe V (Racerxgto)
New member Username: Racerxgto Post Number: 9 Registered: 4-2003 |
Upgrade for upgrade, Koenig Ferraris reach beyond expectations. Power Quotes of this post: "Ricer vs. Ferrari ....as I explain to local 'boy racers', its not all about speed, its about class. There's Rolex and there's Timex; there's hot dogs and there's Filet Mignon...and for thoses who will never understand the difference, so be it. No matter how fast the 'Ricer' is, when all is said and done, and conversation turns to cars, whether in a social gathering or filling out the Car Type registration at the Motel, he says Toyota, you say Ferrari. Enough said" "A 900 HP Supra can beat almost any Ferrari out there, but the overall respect for Ferrari is still higher among the majority than Toyota. That is a fact that no one can deny" "one tail light off a Ferrari will be worth more than an entire Toyota in a scrap yard 10 years from now" "with the 512TR it was like dancing with a professional partner while the VR4 felt like a bucket of high performance parts" "However, you will be hard pressed to find another company (besides maybe Porsche) that has accummulated as many professional race wins" "with someone saying, yea, you're faster, but I still have the Ferrari! That cuts the conversation off with anyone" | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 718 Registered: 12-2002 |
Well said William, thats what its all about to me ;) | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2299 Registered: 2-2001 |
i have a 500 hp + Mitsu 3000GTVR4 that is my rain car. Its cool but its racer raw & I had to ditch the whole interior & sacrifice reliability to make it run as fast as my 512TR. Now the major difference is that with the 512TR you are driving a thoroughbred & it shows. WHen I was at Watkins Glen my times in both cars were within about 2 seconds of each other but with the 512TR it was like dancing with a professional partner while the VR4 felt like a bucket of high performance parts that worked together fairly well but was not a solid whole. WIth the 512TR I was moving but I felt like I wasnt really pushing myself or the car that hard. With the VR4 I was really wrestling the car around the track and it wore me out. and of course a 500hp+ VR4 with $30k in parts might be worth $10,000 while the Ferrari is worth a bit more than that  | ||
| BILL CHIUSANO (My355)
Junior Member Username: My355 Post Number: 67 Registered: 3-2003 |
If I was given a 1000+ plus hp Supra I would sell it and add a nice pristine 348 to my collection.Bottom line I think Supra's are Butt Ugly.Then again thats just my opinion. | ||
| David A. Spear (Detailman)
Junior Member Username: Detailman Post Number: 83 Registered: 5-2002 |
I tell all the ricers ( I have an old honda prelude, drives great looks like crap)to have fun with their car and Ill have fun with mine,and I leave it at that.Everyone is entitled to their oppenion | ||
| Stephen S. Saia (Sssaia)
New member Username: Sssaia Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2003 |
but another thing is if you have 900hp on a car like that, won't you have a bit of oversteer. Comparing that to a 355 on the track, and plus the fact that on the 1/4 mile, it won't run more then 10.5 because of traction issues, how badly would it beat a 355? I know that alot of japanese imports can outhandle Ferrari's. In fact, I'm in the market right now to buy a Honda CRX, strip it down, and race it. But, think about it, the oversteer on a car that has 900 hp on a chassis that had what, around 300hp stock (correct me if I'm wrong). This car was also built for the street, not the racetrack. Also, he said that most supras can beat ANY Ferrari. Not just a particuar one, but any Ferrari. | ||
| DamonB (Prova7)
New member Username: Prova7 Post Number: 39 Registered: 7-2002 |
A Ferrari's lap times are only a small part of its essence. There are plenty of polished turds that can run side by side with a Ferrari, but at the end of the day they are still turds. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1403 Registered: 2-2001 |
I couldnt have said it better myself, Jason! "For me, it comes down to understatements. By exotic standards, Ferraris (with the exception of the TR) are very understated cars. They turn heads not because they have flashy chrome and huge wings, but because there is something inherently beautiful about them." | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 985 Registered: 5-2002 |
"A 900 HP Supra can beat almost any Ferrari out there, but the overall respect for Ferrari is still higher among the majority than Toyota. That is a fact that no one can deny" And in addition, one tail light off a Ferrari will be worth more than an entire Toyota in a scrap yard 10 years from now. (well, maybe even 5 years). | ||
| Jason Wesoky (Wesokyjb)
Junior Member Username: Wesokyjb Post Number: 61 Registered: 1-2003 |
For me, it comes down to understatements. By exotic standards, Ferraris (with the exception of the TR) are very understated cars. They turn heads not because they have flashy chrome and huge wings, but because there is something inherently beautiful about them. Ricers, IMO, are the opposite. Loud and obnoxios mufflers that scream "look at me;" huge wings that serve no purpose; neon, flashy paint jobs that are tacky; and enought chrome and tint to be in a JayZ video. I'm not talking about class in the sense of upper, middle, lower, etc., but taste. Sure, to each his own, and if you like a tricked out Supra, great, but to me, if you can trick out your Supra on the inside, without all the crappy ground effects, et al., it's a much better car. Just today a civic pulled out of its parking spot. Huge wing, major ground effects and one of those mufflers that makes it sound like a crotch rocket. Funny thing was, he wasn't going more than 15mph before he shifted to second and it sounded like his car was about to redline. | ||
| Jaime T. Ferraris are sex on wheels (Chevarri)
New member Username: Chevarri Post Number: 49 Registered: 1-2003 |
"do you think the 60's muscle cars ran forever. NO. you were lucky to get 60K out of them" Sure they dont. Where do people come up with these things? The stupidity of some of these ppl are beyond belief. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 4401 Registered: 12-2000 |
Hubert, kinda along what Mark said, but I'm not disrespecting imports. The point I'm making by that statement is not being a "chassis snob". It's just a fact that Ferraris by name, reputation, and history are one of the most respected cars in the world, whether you own one or not. The importers, the American muscle, and the truck enthusiasts all respect Ferrari. A 900 HP Supra can beat almost any Ferrari out there, but the overall respect for Ferrari is still higher among the majority than Toyota. That is a fact that no one can deny. | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 3793 Registered: 8-2002 |
There is a difference between the "big wing, type r, mismatched wheel" crowd and a well prepared car. We had a Supra and a MR2 on a drive a couple of weeks ago. They are very fast and held their own. They were well prepared cars. my .02 yen | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Member Username: Markg Post Number: 449 Registered: 2-2001 |
"Ricer" vs. Ferrari ....as I explain to local 'boy racers', its not all about speed, its about class. There's Rolex and there's Timex; there's hot dogs and there's Filet Mignon...and for thoses who will never understand the difference, so be it. No matter how fast the 'Ricer' is, when all is said and done, and conversation turns to cars, whether in a social gathering or filling out the Car Type registration at the Motel, he says Toyota, you say Ferrari. Enough said. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 1101 Registered: 1-2002 |
Uh-oh. The rice-a-roni's will always try to drag Ferraris at the stop lights. That's different than a seriously modified Supra. I know some folks here in Austin who have seriously, professionally modified Supras. One of them is a VERY good driver. He can & does eat my lunch all the time when I am in the 550 on track. And not just on the straightaways! He is very gifted at modulating wheelspin, and his car is set up for handling very well. That said, you are still comparing apples & oranges here, as Rob said. I never look down on a Supra driver, or on the rice-a-ronis: I appreciate any guy or gal who loves cars. Period. But a Ferrari is more than just a fast, well-handling car. It is a hand-made (I have seen them built at the Factory) work of art. Few other cars can claim that label, IMO. | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 304 Registered: 2-2003 |
Glad we're on the same page. My Mom traded in her cherry late model Prelude for an SUV, because it was too sporty, too small, amongst the ocean of towering tires and bumpers that roam the streets now. Jeez, look at the new CA smog legislation put in by Florez who drives a Denali. It may be foolishness, but I guess its whatever floats our boats. One Lap would be an amazing lifetime experience | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 719 Registered: 1-2002 |
Sunny- not on the defensive ( I couldn't care less. I've heard it all before.) But just want to reference an instance where a, in this case, a supra edged out over a host of other cars (f cars included.) Prestige is cool, heritage is cool, character is cool, exclusivity, etc. and while a modified street car is just that, it's still competent. My gripe is simply w/ people lossing sight of the fact that cars, in and of themselves, as instruments and are only as much fun as the driver has competence to extract, and that is a quantity undefined by prestige, breeding, etc. but is often overlooked and disregarded b/c someone simply has the money to buy into all of that. Cars are supposed to be fun, shared, and enjoyed. Not used to deliniate and stratify cultural and economic paradigms. Chassis snobbery is foolish, and goes against the very "pedigree" of automotive enthusiasm. The supra along w/ the fd3 rx7, turbo mr2, nissan tt z, mitsu vr, etc. all went by the way side b/c there was no market for these cars. The influx of SUV's killed (or crushed) the middle shelf "sports car" market, a niche that has just now begun to rebound in light of the backlash against the foolishness of SUV hype; i.e., 350z, wrx, evo, sti wrx, s2000, and the host of "sports tuned" cars hitting the market every day. | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 303 Registered: 2-2003 |
Hubert, you could have said, "Some Supra owners say the same thing at the end of the day, win or lose." Everyone can't have the same taste. If the Supra had such a strong future, why did it cease production in '99.. Why didn't Toyota adapt the Supra for the CA and Federal smog laws? Was it a lack of profits or just a lame excuse of product development/marketing strategy? No matter how fast, reliable, inexpensive, exotically styled, luxurious and simply a better machine it (and other cars) may be, to some people, like me, its more then the sum of the parts and the price tag. You really can put a price on prestige, history, performance, and exclusivity. People want to own a bit of the Ferrari legend. Take a non-car enthusiast off the street, put them in front of a vintage and modern Ferrari, and a vintage and modern Toyota, tell them they can have only two of them. Which do you think they would recognize? Which would they actually choose? In 1955 when the Crown appeared, in 1966 when the Corolla first hit the market and put Toyota on the map, what were other car manufacturers like Ferrari and Jaguar doing? Beating the **** out of the other manufacturers in the performance market and luxury market by putting out sports cars and GTs with hundreds of horsepower and hundreds of torque, with racing programs with even bolder numbers and results. No matter how you boil the Supra down, its still a Toyota that began life as modified Celica in 1979, its own identity (model) in 1986, and only until the 1990's when it put Toyota unmistakably on the map in the super/high-performance market. Too little too late. One model isn't going to make up for decades of dominance and prestige. If the Supra line continued, like the NSX line continued, then maybe.. just maybe, people would want a piece of that legend instead and give it the respect it is due. There's a lot more to it then rwhp and I think you'd agree. I love the Supra, but I would never own one. The exterior and interior styling don't do a thing for me. Its still a remarkable car, but not enough people, who vote with their wallets, feel the same. Sunny | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 713 Registered: 1-2002 |
Umm, ahem, do you know what make of car won the last "One Lap of America" race? I'll tell ya: a TT Supra. >>This same thread has come up a thousands times, it always ends with someone saying, yea, you're faster, but I still have the Ferrari! That cuts the conversation off with anyone<< That's a great (chassis snob) remark. Whatever. | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 696 Registered: 12-2002 |
I think there is a difference between the term Ricer, and someone who really modifies their car for performance and really drives their car on a track. I think a Ricer could be said to be a poser who does more cosmetic mods to his car to make it appear faster while not modifying the engine or other components at all. I doubt any of those "ricers" could beat a Ferrari. However, of course some heavily modified cars can if they, like some of you said, invest enough money in performance mods. | ||
| Peter Sedlak (Peters)
Junior Member Username: Peters Post Number: 170 Registered: 1-2003 |
Just watch the Ricer in your rear view when you show 'em what REAL top end is all about! | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 4397 Registered: 12-2000 |
I think many ricers can beat Ferraris, which has already been said. Like Ernesto says my 100 hp 1st gen Rx7 is much faster on the track than my 270 HP Ferrari. Of course the Rx7 has DOT legal slicks, race springs/shocks, and stripped to 2,200 lbs. For not much money you can modify almost any ricer to make it fast on the track. You just don't modify Ferraris very much as it decreases their value and costs a bunch. This same thread has come up a thousands times, it always ends with someone saying, yea, you're faster, but I still have the Ferrari! That cuts the conversation off with anyone. | ||
| Stephen S. Saia (Sssaia)
New member Username: Sssaia Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2003 |
yeah, this guy is comparing a bone stock Ferrari 355 to a supra with 71k invested into it with like 990hp. I'd LOVE to see a 3200 lb car with 990hp make it through a turn without sliding, expecially after those twin turbos kick in. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1401 Registered: 2-2001 |
I'm sure there are a lot of "ricers" that can beat a lot of Ferraris around a racetrack, but that is besides the point. You can almost make any car fast, given enough $. But if you think Ferraris are the fastest things around a course, you will be shocked. However, you will be hard pressed to find another company (besides maybe Porsche) that has accummulated as many professional race wins. Ernesto PS. Supras do break... especially pistons #1 and #6 | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 688 Registered: 12-2002 |
A little off topic. I was driving the Freeway here in Southern California with pouring rain and heavy traffic. This rice rod speeds right past me, swerves into my line, cuts me off, swerves back over, and a few secodns later it spun out...2 full 360s and it crossed two lanes almost hitting lots of cars...and I barely avoided hitting it by dodging it in the shoulder. I was furious! Guy thought he was a race car driver, but aparantly the weather got to him | ||
| Stephen S. Saia (Sssaia)
New member Username: Sssaia Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2003 |
Ok, I was surfing the forums that I'm subscribed to on Automags.org and I came across this: http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75886&perpage=30&pagenumber=3. Now, read that, and please tell me that this guy is kidding when he thinks a Supra can beat any Ferrari on the racetrack. He even goes farther by saying this: Quote:Now dont get me wrong that im ONLY a supra monger and do not have any interest in other cars. Ferraris are sweet but hey there made by Italians (if you are you will understand what i mean) they make the car real nice but they dont finish hence why Ferraris always break down. They are just Unrealiable cars... Ferraris bread down but Supras never break, even though he's running 21psi of boost in the engine? By the way, I'm RT pRo AuToMaG on there. |