| Author | Message | ||
| Dave Penhale (Dapper)
Member Username: Dapper Post Number: 645 Registered: 4-2002 |
Yes, MV Agusta F4S, enthusiastic road only, not racing (nowhere near brave enough to mix with those guys!) | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 268 Registered: 11-2002 |
Will do, about the leathers. I had ill fitting leathers in one of my unexpected trips to the tarmac and have a nice burn mark on my arm as a reminder. | ||
| G.Peters (Wfo_racer)
Junior Member Username: Wfo_racer Post Number: 95 Registered: 5-2002 |
Very good tips, guys. I will only add to have your leathers made for you not off the rack. You want to be focused on the task at hand and not have a ill fitted suit when you are on the track. A liter bike will be a handful if you decide to race it. I'm a former road racer myself. Even the current 600's are very quick. Have fun ,get in great shape first, hook up with someone who has raced before. WFO | ||
| Jere Dunham (Questioner)
Member Username: Questioner Post Number: 499 Registered: 1-2003 |
Art, Don't have a dealership. I just rode out of Western Kawasaki in west Texas (No longer in business) before I got to ride for K.. I never road raced but loved to watch it when I was close enough to get to do so. I always thought Dave was a very good rider. I guess he did better on the 1/2 mile than he did on the roads. Loved to watch him on the 1/2 mile living on the edge. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1427 Registered: 6-2001 |
David is a client, and while I didn't race with Jim, when his ex Cathy was living with Steve McLaughlin, I used to stay with them when I was in LA. Where is your dealership? Art | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1426 Registered: 6-2001 |
The picture size is 1.4 Meg. Anyone know how to make it smaller to get it to upload? Art | ||
| Jere Dunham (Questioner)
Member Username: Questioner Post Number: 498 Registered: 1-2003 |
Art, I started about three years after you did. I rode my first MX race on a converted dual-purpose Suzuki Enduro bike. Took off the headlight, put on plastic fenders, changed from an 18" to a 21" front wheel, put on knobbies, an expansion chamber and hit the dirt. Actually won my first race. I was riding a TS185 Suzuki and had to ride the 250cc class because the bike was over 125cc. Beat some guys son who was just getting started too. The guy was Gary Bailey. Got a dealership ride about two years later and within one year was in the right place at the right time and got a factory support ride. I was attending one of Wymons MX schools and their support rider had broken his leg and would be out for the rest of the season. Wymon was swamped at this school and I offered to help out with the rank beginners. In doing some demo rides showing technique, Wymon watched on and later asked if I would like to try out for the team. I was floored. Like I said, right time, right place. Only problem was, it did not pay well. I got two practice bikes, 125cc & 250cc, two race bikes,125cc & 250cc, a box truck, a mechanic/driver, parts, expenses paid and got to keep my winnings. This was before endorsements and multi-million dollar contracts. I raced all over the Southeast and over into California. Raced Carlsbad, LA, Astrodome, Superdome, and a lot of smaller tracks during the MX school days. I remember watching Kenny Roberts when he dominated. Also liked to watch Yvonne(sp) Duhammel(sp???) Too long ago to remember the proper spelling. Did you ever race with Dave Aldana or Jim Rice???? Have not raced in a long time. Sometimes my brain likes to think it still could, but my body is quick to remind it that I better not. Seems as though, "the older I get, the better I was." | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 263 Registered: 11-2002 |
Writing down whatever changes you make. That's a good one. I remember fiddling with the rear suspension settings on my Ducati and throwing it completely out of whack. Of course, I did not learn my lesson and have done so with this bike too. I'll pin it to max and work from there. This time writing it down! Whart, I've taken the time to read both of Keith Code's books as well. They are quite good and very helpful. Art and Adam, maybe I'll take up your advice and head over to Keith Code's school for a couple of sessions. Cheers | ||
| Jack Habits (Ferraristuff)
Junior Member Username: Ferraristuff Post Number: 244 Registered: 4-2003 |
And I thought Art had found a trick that only you could see the pic..... | ||
| Nika (Racernika)
Member Username: Racernika Post Number: 905 Registered: 12-2001 |
I must be blind.....in my old age | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1425 Registered: 6-2001 |
Just for you Nika: | ||
| Nika (Racernika)
Member Username: Racernika Post Number: 904 Registered: 12-2001 |
Art - please post your famous picture - it's one of my favorites!!! | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1423 Registered: 6-2001 |
Jere: My first roadrace was Vacaville, 1969. My last roadrace was Thunderhill, 4 hour endurance race last year (we led for the first 1 then broke the cush drive on the bike, ended up about 10th). I don't race anymore, but occassionally I'll ride an endurance race with the guy I sponsor, Jeff Hagan (GSXR1000). I was competitive up until about 89, and then age caught up with me. I started at about the same time as Kenny Roberts (beat him once or twice) and essentially was riding with most of what I consider the golden age of American GP riders, Rainey, Spencer, Lawson, Mamola, etc. I was never as good as them, but I think I could hold my own, when I needed to. I started with Hondas, then in 77 started with Ducatis, and road them until 88, when I switched to Suzukis. I represent a rider or two: Hopkins, Rapp, etc, and a team or two: Valvoline (Ulrich). I know a few of the motocross guys: Lackey, etc. I don't ride very much on the street, but I've got a 77 triumph for street work. I still have the bike that I won the BOTT with in 88. It's currently being restored, and if I can convince my wife, I'll mount it in the living room (no oil or gas in it). I still have a hard time going to the races, I'm still in withdrawal. Art | ||
| Jere Dunham (Questioner)
Member Username: Questioner Post Number: 497 Registered: 1-2003 |
Art, Are you still riding? If so, what size bike do you ride now? When I was riding for Kawasaki back in the 70's (showing my age), I rode the 250cc class. I came up on 125cc Pentons, Suzukis and on old 125cc Honda 4 stroke enduro bike. In motocross, it was very important to be in top physical condition because of the beating your body would take. On the outdoor tracks, back then a National event would consist of 2 55 minute plus 2 lap heats. 55 minutes plus 2 laps done twice outdoors can absolutely kill you. When I first started I rode both 125 and 250. I learned quickly that riding two classes was only for masochists. I taught MX with Wymon Priddy for the Kawasaki Central Region before they reorganized their race programs. I do not know if you ever ran MX or not but some of my old riding buddies were Jimmy Weinert (Kawasaki), Kent Howerton, Marty Tripes, Tony Distefano, Brad Lackey (Suzuki), Steve Stackable (Maico), Jim Pomeroy (Bultaco) and a number more. I was just a different time back then. I tried to get back into local racing a few years ago and found out that the equipment had advanced so far that what used to be considered high-tech factory rides were now considered dinosaurs. No, I did not attempt to race a 1976 Model Kawasaki, I am not that naive. I also found out that the kids today have no fear at all. I guess you would say I have "matured". Or said another way--"Boy my reactions have really slowed down and I get tired much more quickly." Only by using some experience and some of what I used to teach could I stay respectable on the track. I could only hope that these new "kids" would get overzealous and crash so I could stay on the same lap with them. Shoot, I may have taught some of their fathers to race. It has been that long since I did it competitively. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1422 Registered: 6-2001 |
Keith Code's classes are very very good. He also will, if the money is right, do some private tutoring. I would say the following: a liter bike will just hide any flaws in your riding. I would track something quite a bit smaller, and learn about how to enter and exit corners. Contray to what most people say, races are NOT won in the corners, they are won in the entrance and exits to the corners. If you watch a National event, at the apex of every corner, all the riders have about the same speed. The passing comes in the entrance or exits to the corners, not the corner itself. A liter bike has so much acceleration, that a rider who is not a full time racer will have major problems on the exits of the corners, and in my expereience will only see full throttle when the bike is straight up or down, since most street riders are unable to cope with a little wheelspin off the corner. A good many of the track schools have loaners, and those are usually 600s. I'd take a little instruction on one of those, get my proficiency level up, then move to the liter bike. When setting the bike up for a track day, I'd go the local races (AFM) and look for those who have a similar bike. I'd make note of how the are running, and I'd copy what the faster people on your bike are doing. There are quite a few people who assist with the suspension set up, find one at the track on race day, hire them for a day at the track, and get your suspension set up. KEEP A BOOK ON ALL THE CHANGES THAT YOU MAKE, AND DON'T MAKE MORE THAN ONE CHANGE AT A TIME. A lot of people forget this, and get lost with their changes. There is nothing like a little organization. Keep track of the tire pressures, suspension settings, and your lap times. If you don't have an automatic timer, get one, keep those records. As to the physical conditioning. If you must. This only is needed if you are competing, it certainly doesn't hurt, but most track riders don't stay at 100% all of the time. Lastly, decide what you want to do: Is going faster than everyone else worth getting hurt for? If so, then you need a plan to make sure that the equipment will allow you to do this, if not, decide just what level of risk you are willing to make. An example of that sort of decision making is that some of the track schools allow full blown racers in all of the sessions. If that is the case, do you attempt to stay with someone who races at the National level? If so, plan on getting hurt sooner, rather than later. Makes sure that your leathers, helmet, etc. are the best and fit you properly. The above is based upon 25 years of roadracing, several championships, etc. and a good many trips to the ER over the years. Have fun, don't get hurt, enjoy the bike. Art | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 976 Registered: 12-2001 |
As a new rider, i found Code's TOTW II to be particularly helpful, because it focused on rider mindset and reactions, rather than technique, per se. | ||
| Adam R (Arymarcz)
Junior Member Username: Arymarcz Post Number: 79 Registered: 8-2002 |
Don't tense up and feedback through the suspension - particularly the handle bars. Keith Code's California superbike school discusses the survival instincts and how the cause one to NOT make the right decisions - tight on bars, object fixation...etc. | ||
| Jere Dunham (Questioner)
Member Username: Questioner Post Number: 494 Registered: 1-2003 |
There is a total difference between relaxation and lack of focus. Sometimes guys make the mistake of riding kind of (boy, how do you spell it?) lackadaisically (Sp, help). You must remain totally focused on the ride but try not to tense up. I have done the same thing you did, only unfortunately, too often, I got spit off. Like I said, I rode MX not road racing, so my experience in competition is quite a bit different from what you will experience. It is still racing but the response of the bike is totally different along with the way you approach many turns and especially the jumps that do not exist in road racing. Do not make the mistake I made. Too often I was the entertainment. You know, the Crash and Burn photos. I was never in contention for a US #1 or even close. I would finish in top 10 and in top 5 a few times but just never quite made it to the top. Boy, those guys that do that can really ride. I guess, finishing in the top 10 should be considered okay but when you ride for a factory team, they do not look for top ten finishes. Sure, you might drop it and fall back every once in a while but to keep your ride you need to stay in the top 5 all the time and get a lot of podium finishes. But, like I said, your overall conditioning will go a long way to put you out front of the competition given bikes that perform equally. Have fun with what you are going to do and let me know what changes you make to the bike and yourself. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 262 Registered: 11-2002 |
Jere, I agree with the relaxation. Natural reaction is to tense up when the bike misbehaves, which is obviously the worse thing you could probably do. I almost highsided once because I tried to muscle the bike (not possible by anyone) while it was headshaking under sloppy acceleration. | ||
| Dave Shears (Daveshears)
Junior Member Username: Daveshears Post Number: 58 Registered: 3-2001 |
I was in the motorcycle business for 29 years and helped many riders through out the years. I retired 2 years ago and sold my last store to an employee who raced AFM. He would be happy to talk to anyone who calls him. I had this exact conversation with him about starting small and learning to "ride" the motorcycle. Give him a call if you like and say that I referred you. He is very nice guy and very willing to help. His number is 800-424-5588 or 510-796-3131 ask for Eddy. If I can help you E-mail off line I would be more than happy to answer any questions you have.---Dave | ||
| Jere Dunham (Questioner)
Member Username: Questioner Post Number: 490 Registered: 1-2003 |
Duh, I had a blonde moment. It is Nicky Hayden, not Mickey.. My goof. I do not know how fit you are now, but it is always good to work on that aspect anyway, even if you are going to do it hardcore. Mental is a very big thing. I have to agree on the safety wiring about everything. The vibration of high speed riding really has a tendency to work things loose. I even made three wraps of wire around my spokes where they crossed, so they would not back out of the nipples that held them to the wheels. Well, maybe I did not, but my mechanic did. Oh, and work on some relaxation techniques that will allow you to flow with the bike. You will notice that the fastest riders seem to be the smoothest riders. Moving with the bike instead of throwing it around. Sometimes it requires you throw it around on tracks with a lot of short straights and quick turns but in the long run smoothness will really pay off. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 260 Registered: 11-2002 |
I've done some track time. I'm not exactly a track timer because my experience is limited. I've been a bunch of times, but nothing like some of the people I've ridden with. I went up the ranks of motorbike riding. I started with a 250, graduated to a 600, then hit 748 (twin), then 750, and now I'm at liter class. Int the track I went from 748 (twin), 250 (2 stroke), and now to this, which I haven't tracked yet. It's interesting to see the different characteristics. I'm by no means any sort of pro and would not take road racing too seriously. I just want to have fun. I do have to admit, there is no better rush than speeding through a track. Your mind goes to a different place, it's difficult to explain. Jere, I don't think I'll be going at it quite as "hard core" as you suggest, but you are right. Tires will have to go, as I'm sure a lot of other stuff. It's good to hear from an experienced rider. I started this thread, because my two previous track bikes were already set up for the track. And I wasn't the one who did it. So I'm completely clueless as to what one has to do. Thanks | ||
| Jere Dunham (Questioner)
Member Username: Questioner Post Number: 489 Registered: 1-2003 |
First of all, I am NOT a road racer. I did however ride professionally for Kawasaki a number of years ago in Moto-X, so I have some knowledge of motorcycle competition. With the excellence of the new bikes, they are already above what 95% of the riders can get out of them. So, to agree with Davef, you need to work on yourself first. Yes you want the right tires for the task, the clutch and brake levers set at the proper angles so as not to induce forearm fatigue and proper brake pads for what you will be doing. Other than that, most of the new bikes are equal to what the factory race bikes were doing just four years ago. On yourself: 1. Work on upper body strength. Racing over an extended period of time will prove very tiring and will cause your forearms to pump up and almost lock due to fatigue. Work out, work out, work out.... Kawasaki had us on a daily routine that included upper body every day and lower body thrown in three times a week. 2. Work on your endurance. You will be totally amazed at how quickly you will tire physically once you are in open competition. Ride bicycles up and down hills, roller blade, swim, row or do anything else you can think of that will build up your endurance. Take it seriously. If you begin to tire, your concentration will go and so will your riding. 3. Mental training. You will need to work on your focus and attention as competitive riding will require your total attention all the time. You are not allowed to be distracted for even a second. If you are distracted, you are usually down. If you will make sure your strength, endurance and focus are in line, you will already hold an edge over most other riders. If you are serious about this, treat it seriously and then seriously have fun with it. Once you are fit and focused, the ride will come easier and you will be able to enjoy it more. If you are not fit, you will find yourself fighting for control and that requires way too much of your attention. 4. Find a good school for competition and take it. Even if you are a pro, do not go into it thinking that. Even Tiger Woods has a coach and I am sure Mickey Hayden has one also. Listen and learn. Every time we take a school, we can pick up at least one thing that we may have missed before. Listen and learn. Looking at the picture. It looks like those tires have to go. Get a good high speed tire that offers a lot of grip. Looks like the brakes may be a little low also. New rotors and the proper compound pads are a must. Work on the dependability of the bike before the performance. Once you attain the maximum out of the bike and after your are in the proper state of mental and physical fitness, then go for improving the performance of the bike. Not before. You will be throwing money away as you will not be able to use what the bike has. Yes, I did teach at Moto-X schools, so I am not just spouting a lot of hot air. I love to see people take motorcycle racing seriously and have fun at it. I don't care if it is road racing, MX, flat tracking, hill climbing, enduros. It doesn't matter. Get fit, both mentally and physically, get your bike ready mechanically and go out and have fun doing it. Let us know how you do and where you go. | ||
| Adam R (Arymarcz)
Junior Member Username: Arymarcz Post Number: 74 Registered: 8-2002 |
Kevlar or stainless steel lines may not be a bad idea.... As far as the saftey wire goes, see what the club/school you're using the track with requires (actually, that goes for a lot of this stuff). Hardened case covers are another goodie to consider. Track timer? | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 256 Registered: 11-2002 |
Well, I've been riding for around 6 years. I've done the motorbike safety school every year (to keep sharp). I've done about 15 hours worth of track time. I used to ride an Aprilia RS250. Little 2 stroke beauty. I've gone dirt bike riding as most of my teachers recommended to get used to sliding dynamics. The little plastic knobs are already on the bike. They are the same color as the lower fairing (black). I was thinking of putting some better brakes on the bike, some brake lines, lighter carbon wheels to reduce unsprung weight, and defenitely a steering damper. I already put a titanium pipe (Scorpion) which is saving me some weight and makes it sound real nice. I figured the mirrors had to go as well as the front headlamp (only one of them). Is there some sort of ram air that can be done to the bike? Do I have to safety wire everything? I remember the bike I did track time in did have everything safety wired. After this it's getting a track car. I have a Corvette that I'm thinking of doing this to, but I'm afraid it'll have more power than I can handle safely on the track. Maybe an old Honda Civic or something. | ||
| Dave Shears (Daveshears)
Junior Member Username: Daveshears Post Number: 57 Registered: 3-2001 |
Keep it on the street and go out and buy a 250 ninja and start with that on the track first. | ||
| Adam R (Arymarcz)
Junior Member Username: Arymarcz Post Number: 73 Registered: 8-2002 |
Yes, these are all great tips - especially don't waste your money on the engine... "races are won in the corners". You also may need to saftey wire the oil drain plug, filter and dip stick + others. All 'glass' should be removed or taped. May want to get a set of GP tires like Dunlop 208 GP-A's. The 'knobs' referred to earlier, are known as frame sliders. And how about a set of race plastic so you don't hose up that nice body work? Granted, you probably won't need all this to start out with, but eventually you will (and a whole lot more  ). | ||
| David Finniff (Davef)
New member Username: Davef Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2002 |
Tires, steering damper, school, school, school Get help to set up the suspension and Do not waste your money on engine upgrades at this stage. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 745 Registered: 1-2002 |
>>What should I do to this sucker to make it track ready? Thinking of exhaust, rearsets, steering damper and not much else for now. Not good enought to milk the potential out of this bike yet. I stepped up from 600cc to this liter bike.<< Well, 1. do you have MC liscnse? Did you take the course? If not, I'd urge you to. 1-800-CCRIDER is the number you need to dial to setup a class. 2. after that, take the superbike school at willow springs. 3. to track prep the bike switch your coolant to watter wetter, take off your mirrors, turn signals, and get some knobs to protect your farings when you low side. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2395 Registered: 2-2001 |
fun toys but deadly, stay safe | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 254 Registered: 11-2002 |
What should I do to this sucker to make it track ready? Thinking of exhaust, rearsets, steering damper and not much else for now. Not good enought to milk the potential out of this bike yet. I stepped up from 600cc to this liter bike.  Oh, and by the way, does anyone know the location or contact information of Tako's shop in the Bay Area? If I remember correctly he had some sort of magic juice that made all black cars look like mirrors. As you can see from the picture of the bike, my car could use some of that stuff. I'm never getting a black car again. |