| Author | Message | ||
| Chris F. (Dallasguy)
Junior Member Username: Dallasguy Post Number: 146 Registered: 10-2002 |
Here is an update: "ORLANDO, Fla. - A Florida judge ruled Friday that a Muslim woman cannot wear a veil in her driver's license photo. Prosecutors had argued that allowing people to cover all but their eyes in their ID pictures could allow potential terrorists to hide their identities. After hearing three days of testimony last week, Circuit Judge Janet C. Thorpe ruled that the state has a compelling interest in protecting the public, and that having photo identification was essential to that interest." | ||
| Michael Koga (Ski_bum)
New member Username: Ski_bum Post Number: 7 Registered: 12-2002 |
OK, found this about our friends the Saudis, on the state department website, and is stated to be up to date: http://travel.state.gov/saudi.html It has this line under "SAUDI CUSTOMS, RELIGIOUS POLICE AND GENERAL STANDARDS OF CONDUCT" "Women are not allowed to drive vehicles or ride bicycles on public roads." | ||
| Peter Topman (Peter_topman)
New member Username: Peter_topman Post Number: 44 Registered: 8-2002 |
I agree with Callahan. Although I think several pcis s/b taken in several areas. Now, regarding the chick who won't unveil, she should be imprisoned for wasting peoples valuable time. | ||
| Dan (Bobafett)
Member Username: Bobafett Post Number: 628 Registered: 9-2002 |
Martin: incorrect. Go to an islamic state and can and do drive. --Dan | ||
| Robert Callahan (Rcallahan)
Junior Member Username: Rcallahan Post Number: 219 Registered: 7-2002 |
I actually think ALL women should be photographed with NO clothes. Just to make sure of their true identification  | ||
| Randall (Randall)
Member Username: Randall Post Number: 488 Registered: 1-2003 |
Martin- I've heard (can't verify though) that she just wants it as an ID, not to drive. But even with that excuse, if she doesn't like the laws here she should go to somewhere she does like 'em. What would she need an ID for anyway? I guess to buy smokes and alcohol. I can't believe this is even a case. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4746 Registered: 5-2001 |
You are all missing the point here: In fundamental Islam Woman are not allowed to drive at all! so what is the point? WHart, I think that part should be taken into Martinism Doctrins. | ||
| Ron Vallejo (Ron328)
Junior Member Username: Ron328 Post Number: 147 Registered: 3-2003 |
So long as there are lawyers who are willing to defend these kinds of ridiculous and time-wasting cases, it is not going to get any better. | ||
| DGS (Dgs)
New member Username: Dgs Post Number: 9 Registered: 5-2003 |
I seem to remember an issue in the first Gulf War about our women fighter pilots not being allowed to drive ground vehicles in some of those countries. Veils? Heck, you'd probably get pulled over in most States for trying to drive wearing night vision goggles. ;^) Now _that_ would be an interesting "test case". | ||
| Dan (Bobafett)
Member Username: Bobafett Post Number: 626 Registered: 9-2002 |
Michael: that is incorrect. --Dan | ||
| Michael Koga (Ski_bum)
New member Username: Ski_bum Post Number: 6 Registered: 12-2002 |
Don't fundelmentalpatientism Islamic countries not allow women to drive? | ||
| PeterS (Peters)
Member Username: Peters Post Number: 557 Registered: 1-2003 |
William, here in California (The Left Coast), we have the Motor-Votor bill....Get a drivers license and you can vote. No need to be a US citizen. Guess which group has the largest vote now? If I did not love the place I live, I would get the hell out of this state! | ||
| William Huber (Solipsist)
Member Username: Solipsist Post Number: 993 Registered: 9-2001 |
Get a damn bus pass, it�s as simple as that. Like anyone that just comes in to "the land of the lawsuit", they want to f*ck up our legal system by wasting time & money. Anyway she may have a face only on mother could love. Best to keep the beast hidden. | ||
| PeterS (Peters)
Member Username: Peters Post Number: 550 Registered: 1-2003 |
Whats next in this country, 'Burka King' for fast Islamic food? Jesus! When is this going to end? The Democrats have let the ACLU ruin our country. They will defend this gal along with all of their other 'great' accomplishments like kicking God out of our schools, allowing 98 pound Jamaican women serve as firefighters and paving a path for homosexuals to be Boyscout leaders! Have we not had enough?...Boy! I could really go on! | ||
| Aaron Williams (Aawil)
Junior Member Username: Aawil Post Number: 201 Registered: 8-2002 |
This is one of the stupidist thhings I've ever heard.What goods a pic with the veil on anyway? Not going to be the best ID thats for sure. Now that i know she's a converted makes it even more of a joke. Religion should never govern law. That's the problem with muslim countries. I know some basic laws here are based from religion too but most are common sense stuff here. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1179 Registered: 5-2002 |
Here's the scoop: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/sultaana1.html | ||
| Dan (Bobafett)
Member Username: Bobafett Post Number: 619 Registered: 9-2002 |
I find this all highly stupid - women around the time that Islam was a dominant religion and the Islamic empire of size, were actually given lots of personal freedoms. This whole veil-wearning nonsense came into play much much later, and in reality, so much as I understand it, doesn't hold true with the original 'intents' of the religion. But then, clearly the courts will have scholars who actually know something about the religion, as opposed to me having studied it a little in school. --Dan | ||
| Robert McNair (Rrm)
Member Username: Rrm Post Number: 396 Registered: 5-2002 |
In Vermont they just changed the rule of having a choice of whether or not an individual has a picture on their licence. It formely was an option. I don't have a picture on my licence and I have to say it is a PITA. If it were still an option I would choose to have a picture this time around. Since it is the law this woman needs to obey it or walk. | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Intermediate Member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 1110 Registered: 12-2002 |
You have the craziest sense of humor Strangelove, I was thinking the same thing when I read it lol. I think she might have just thought of a way to make a quick dollar on a law suit. I doubt it really affects her that much. | ||
| Robin Overcash (Robin)
Junior Member Username: Robin Post Number: 95 Registered: 1-2003 |
If you've seen any of this chick's testimony, you'll immediately realize several things. First, she's just some trailer trash hick looking to get some airtime (no, she's not from the middle east...). Secondly, she has already perjured herself on the stand. She claimed that she has never taken her veil off for anything since she "converted".. but the state's attorney produced several photographs of her without her veil and asked if she remembered having them taken. Her response "...ummm.. I do now..." Third, she has a record that includes assault and battery, so she's not all sugar and spice. Forth, when asked specific questions about Islam, she didn't seem to know too much.... My guess is that she's your standard Jerry Springer guest who's trying to stir up controversy. Regardless, peoples' religious freedom shouldn't infringe upon the safety of others. -R | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Intermediate Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 1836 Registered: 7-2001 |
Wmhart, are you pracicing Martinism? | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1155 Registered: 12-2001 |
Hmmm, my religion requires me to drive at high speed at all times, hence any traffic citation i receive interferes with my constitutional guarantee of freedom of religion. i may have to sue.... Just out of curiosity, what effect does wearing a veil have on peripheral vision? What if they gave her a special license with a little flap that would ordinarily cover her face in the photo, like a veil, but upon application to the correct religious authorities, the veil could be lifted. There are, of course, other alternatives. Since the fundamentalist penalty for a traffic infraction is death by stoning, and for failing to signal, the bodily amputation of the opposite limb, i think we could accomodate her religion and still let her drive. I think this is really a set up by the vast rightwing conspiracy to make liberals look bad. Of course, they don't need much help... . .. . | ||
| Schnelles Fr�ulein (Miss_m_treiber)
Junior Member Username: Miss_m_treiber Post Number: 75 Registered: 4-2003 |
and i also dont feel MY rights to safety should be overridden by her religious freedom.. and if shes allowed to keep the veil on, think of all the problems we're going to have.. then everyone is going to have some sort of issue because they dont want their picture taken either. | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Member Username: Markg Post Number: 490 Registered: 2-2001 |
Driving is a privilege - not a right - and if the rules to exercise this privilege say you must have a clear picture on your DL, that thats the rules, you can always opt out of excersizing a privilege!! AND...having spent 13 years in Law Enforcement, I can assure you this: the way we make car stops on people wearing masks while driving is not a very pleasant expierence for the driver!! | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 526 Registered: 2-2003 |
A good old fashioned beat down is in order. Don't eat beef? Then, don't go to a steak house and complain. She can take the bus or take off the veil for the picture. Her religion doesn't guarantee her the ability to own a driver's license. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 643 Registered: 11-2002 |
Hahaha Dr.S, always with the color commentary! If she feels that strongly about her religion then don't get the picture taken. Which means, don't drive. It would be interesting to see her behaviour in a place where Islam is truly a way of life. She is pampered here in the U.S. Driving is indeed a privilege, not a right, which means that if she doesn't want to follow the rules she can as Tim said, take the bus. I really hope they throw this one out. Last thing we need is more people bashing Muslims. Cheers | ||
| Drstranglove (Drstranglove)
Member Username: Drstranglove Post Number: 478 Registered: 4-2003 |
I just wish some ex-boyfriend of hers busted up with some old nudes of her!!!!!! How funny would that be?? DrS | ||
| Ryan550 (Ryanab)
Member Username: Ryanab Post Number: 344 Registered: 3-2002 |
Agreed, take it off for the picture, but keep it on the rest of the time. | ||
| Schnelles Fr�ulein (Miss_m_treiber)
Junior Member Username: Miss_m_treiber Post Number: 74 Registered: 4-2003 |
the whole purpose of a photo ID is for ID purposes, you cant ID someone when you cant see their face. if she takes that photo with the veil on, ANYONE could use her ID.. something is not right there. and once again, driving is a privelege, not a right.. you want that privelege? you have to sacrifice. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Advanced Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 3089 Registered: 6-2001 |
If she doesnt want to "disobey" her lord, then her non-disobeying ass can take the bus! Also, is she planning on driving with a freaking veil on? | ||
| Schnelles Fr�ulein (Miss_m_treiber)
Junior Member Username: Miss_m_treiber Post Number: 73 Registered: 4-2003 |
Muslim woman fights to keep on veil for driver's license photo Wednesday, May 28, 2003 Posted: 8:39 PM EDT (0039 GMT) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ORLANDO, Florida (AP) -- Experts in Islamic law are being called to testify in the lawsuit of a Muslim woman fighting a state order to take off her veil for her driver's license photo. Sultanna Freeman, 35, says Florida's insistence on photographing her face violates her religious rights. "I don't unveil ... because it would be disobeying my Lord," Freeman testified Tuesday at the start of her non-jury trial. Assistant Attorney General Jason Vail argued that having an easily identifiable photo on a driver's license is a matter of public safety. "It's the primary method of identification in Florida and the nation," Vail said. "I don't think there can be any doubt there is a public safety interest." Freeman's attorneys argue that state officials didn't care that she wore a veil in her Florida driver's license photo until after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, an allegation the state denies. "This is about religious liberty. It's about whether this country is going to have religious diversity," said Howard Marks, an attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida. Both sides planned to call experts in Islamic law at the trial, which continues Wednesday. A copy of the Quran has been entered into evidence. Freeman, a convert to Islam previously known as Sandra Kellar, wore her veil for the photo on the Florida driver's license she obtained after moving to the state in 2001. Nine months later, she received a letter from the state warning that it would revoke her license unless she returned for a photo with her face uncovered. Freeman claims her religious beliefs require her to keep her head and face covered out of modesty and that her faith prohibits her face from being photographed. |