Restoration costs

if you have to send all the work out (paint, engine, interior, etc) it will cost 200k possibly more.

when the restoration is kept in house the cost can be kept under control

 

It all depends on the car you start with, if you start with a swamp car, the fabrication of metal work will increase the cost exponentially. Therefore, starting with a dead original car is better. The devil is in the details, it's not until you strip it right down that you know what you would have..ie/ correct bolts, screws and the like. I am of the mindset that since no two cars are the same for restore that a guidance of 10-20% is needed as a buffer for unforeseen costs.

 

Interesting topic - I have been considering the merits of UK vs UK restorations. While I have seen some fantastic work over here in the UK and there are some seriously good specialists here, I have been amazed by the work cronicled by the likes of OMGJon......some of the pictures of the mechanical parts all laid out and re-plated are awesome. The attention to detail and care is awesome.

I was wondering, given the relatively low costs of shipping, whether it might make sense to have a UK dino restored in the states, or for that matter, a US dino restored in the UK.

My initial estimates suggests it would be cheaper in the US given current exchange rates and the 20% VAT you would have to add to the bill in the UK. would a Brit having work done in the US be able to re-claim US taxes?

Problem is, in the UK, even a basket case car would now set you back over £115k (perhaps $150k in the US?) and after a full rebuild, I doubt you would see any change out of £300k or say $350k at the end of the day.....and even with current prices, that barely makes sense.

Shame, I own a car restored about 12 years ago and would love to get involved in a ground-up restoration. One day!

I tend to think it is the increased costs of restoration on both sides of the Atlantic that has been a major factor in driving the auction / sales prices up recently.

Anyway, interesting to see what others think.

 

Jon, when you say painting, 25K to 35K, is it just the materials and the labor, on a ready to be painted car, or are you including any bodywork?

Regards, Alberto

 

It's sad, but increasingly true that no collectors car worth less than £120k is viable of receiving a commercial rebuild by marque specialists...not to mention initial availaibility and purchase of project car, resto shop of choice (+ their availaibility), parts etc...if the budget will allow, buy the very best, previously restored example.

Eastern Europe seems to be increasingly popular for comprehensive restoration - Konstantin Zhukhov in Odessa amongst them

Ed

 

On my own, down there, I have pro-formas going from 15,000 € to 46,000 € for the same job (a little bit bodywork with change of the underpart of the front nose, up to a complete bare cahssis paint).

Carrozzeria Auto-Sport (formerly Bacchelli & Villa) being at 45,000..

 

Jon

Similar experience with 03666

Seats not recovered, no chrome, more than minor but not major metalwork but everything else.

Ignoring the 2600 man hours over 19 months - approximately $90k. 2010 to 2011

 

So with some back of the napkin math lets assume a shop rate of $80/hour so 2600 x 80 = $208K + $90 for subs and parts and you are at $300K in restoration costs for a car that maintained its original seats and with no chrome bill (a hefty bill on any restoration).

Asking how much a restoration costs is like saying how long is a piece of sring. It varies wildly on what the final expectations are and the level to which work is being done. Pebble Beach restorations on pre war cars easily top $1million and this years best of show topped 2mil having started with a complete running car!

That said there is some interesting information on this thread and I am sure that some varied opinions and experiences will be expressed.

What I can say is that it is one thing to restore a car to 95 points (FCA Platinum) and your bill can easily double if you strive for 100 points. Those last 5 are brutal.

 

246€ each if you buy in lot in the UK (shipping included to main European countries).

 

Pls, which are the conditions to get the 95 and 100 points at the FCA ???

 

I am glad I am a body man!

 

Longstone Tire 4 x XWX 205/70 is 1136 GBP = 1763 USD.

 

Obviously more expensive than "Vintage Tyres".

 

I am glad I live in El Salvador!

Regards, Alberto

 

Not being ironic, just as a thought, it would be a car (any) you bought (new) yesterday and did not drive it one mile, had it trucked to the show, and possibly might have to fix or clean a thing or two, due to sloppiness at the factory or at the dealership.....100 points.

Regards, Alberto

 

There are (5) tires required...you forgot the spare!

I paid $2300 (USD) for a set of (5) from Longstone last year...free shipping to USA.

 

Exceptionally valid point.
During the International FCA meet in Oct 2012 at Palm Springs, Gary Bobileff gave a seminar on restoration of vintage Ferraris and he stated the single largest unknown cost in a restoration is the presence of rust as metalwork can really affect the final cost of a restoration.

Painters will tell you "prep" is the bulk of the cost in any paint job and metalwork is the biggest part of prep in Dinos.
Dinos are rust buckets and there are many Dino construction techniques where sheet metal is sandwiched, pocketed, or folded over creating rust areas.
I see ads of unrestored Dinos For Sale where they are claimed as having been examined by the seller finding "no rust" and must bite my tongue. I just don't believe a 40 year old Dino during those Ferrari production techniques that left inner sheet metal exposed could result in a rust free Dino.

Cut to the chase numbers for Dino 05702 are ~1000 hours of metalwork at $78/hr to remove all rust, lead, and then form new metal to the exterior level. Dennison International (DENNISON INTERNATIONAL MOTORSPORTS Home Page) did all the work efficiently, every piece of work meticulously documented in tenths of an hour and photographed. Everything was necessary, justified and I was part of the decision process at every phase.

The first photo shows metalwork completed and all the rusted bits laid out relative to where they were originally in the car.

The second and third photos show there is not much of a learning curve for Dennison,
they do this all the time and are efficient about it;

- TR 666 sold for $M16.1 and if you look closely you'll see 05702 in the background.

- ex-Bud Spratlen's CA Spider sold for $M8.25 last month and can be seen in the top right of the third photo during the metalwork phase; Pete is in the blue overalls. Dino 05702 is in the lower left

This sounds like you get a bargain price.
After metalwork was completed by Dennison International I thought the metal was in the best possible shape ever and my quote from your favorite was substantially higher than your figure.
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The better the car, the pickier the judges get. As my Dino approached Platinum level, the judges started deducting for things they never deducted for before, even at the same show (eg, hose clamps). It also depends dramatically who the judges are and what the venue is (ie, local show vs regional or national).

 

and

Speaking of judging and sloppiness, several years ago I tried to request from the FCA the specific judging standards for Dinos, and was shocked to find out that there really weren't any truly substantive and objective standards (there still really aren't any). Essentially, everything was pretty much ad hoc - based upon the collective judgment of the judges assigned to the class. When I questioned the process, I was assailed for expecting too much.

I also don't believe that the standards should be rising each year - without adjusting downwards Dinos that were scored as Gold or Platinum in prior years, as harsh as that might be.

And, I was disappointed when I attended a Concorso Italiano event years ago and there was a Dino that had been selected to be included in the featured Ferrari/Pininfarina circle that was owned by a supposedly knowledgeable and experienced Dino judge, and the Dino was lacking its windshield wipers. No matter whether the point was simply to display an example of a Dino, any number of Dinos present that day were better candidates.

On more thing - I think for a U.S. market Dino to be judged between 90 to 100 points, it should be treated on a gentler curve than a Euro market Dino - simply because Euro market Dinos have less emissions and safety crap to deal with. On that theory, then it should not matter whether the air pump system was present on a U.S. market Dino vis-a-vis a Euro Dino, or whether the Fasten Seatbelts light and the associated pressure switch sticks embedded in the seat were working or even present.

 

Jon -

I don't think that the topic is particularly controversial.

I think what is interesting is how it is at times very hard to get a handle on how expensive (or inexpensive) a good restoration (or even a repair - especially for body work) is going to cost on a Dino, especially for the reasons that synchro pointed out - namely RUST!!!

I think that your point is well taken that (as long as one has reasonable expectations for whatever their goal is, and as long as the market doesn't swing too wildly - again, fingers crossed) you aren't likely to get as upside down so quickly working on a Dino (or earlier Ferraris - the possible exception being a 4 headlight GT), as you would doing a full resoration on a 308 to a 360, or in future years on 430 or a 458.

And, I certainly appreciate you laying out foundation estimates for us all to ponder.