What is the rationale for fluid change?

PREVENTIVE MAINTANENCE! Cheap money if you ask me... My brother and I change all the fluids in our 360's every year... You can't go wrong by doing so.

 

The transmission oil gets very hot and degrades rapidly. It has been the cause of many transmission failures. I am one of the few shops that rebuilds them. Most just replace. Current list for 360 F1 trans is almost $30,000

Brake fluid absorbs water at the rate of about 3% per year. That is enough to lower the boiling point considerably. Boiling brake fluid causes brake failure and is a real problem in cars driven the way these are.

Also water rusts brake components. The ABS unit alone is $4300. Calipers are $900 to $1600 each.

The corrosion inhibitors in antifreeze degrade. In the 550 section someone is doing a complete rebuild for very big money due to poor cooling system maintenance. Also Ferrari buys cheap radiators and we change coolant every year in an attempt to keep them from rotting out. Replacement is very expensive.

Corrosion failure of the transmission cooler has destroyed many 360 transmissions. Regular service of the cooling system goes a long way to prevent that failure too.

The cost of repair is so high on these cars, prevention costs far less and goes a long way to maintain resale value.

On most other brands waiting for something to break and replacing it is usually less expensive. Not so on Ferrari.

 

very well said

 

As Mr. Crall says above...

Plus they just sound happier when running with new fluids. Like a wife in a shoe store with a credit card that's been paid off...

 

My dad was a old school, common sense machanic in the 1940's. When I started driving in the 1960's, he told me; "the only thing cheap on anything mechanical, is oil, grease, and filters". Good advice then, and good advice now ! BTW, if you think Ferraris are complex, a friend of mine has a excellent full service garage, he was telling me the new Camaros have 28 computers, and the new Ford Fusions, have 70 computers!!! When those types of late model cars are out of warrenty, and the electronics start going bad, they will be throwaway cars.

 

And there it is. It doesn't get any clearer than Brian's post. Many problems that have pointed the finger at so called "poor components" on these cars are totally avoidable by proper maintenance, yet so few actually do it...

 

Have to agree with Rifle above.

Fluids are cheap and easy to replace. Most of these cars aren't used much over the winter months (climate dependent of course) and it's just so easy to do the whole lot annually that it's a false economy not to do so.

p.s. I would not always have been in this camp, but I've learned ........!

 

Basically the answer is that it is not necessary to do it each year. It just makes people feel good and makes dealers money.

 

WTF? I think you're gonna get blasted for this one...
Season's open boys...

 

No...

The answer is it is necessary to do each year to prevent worse engine damage and expensive problems than when it is done. These cars are not toyotas or hondas or BMW's. The engineering is different. Esp with regards to the oil cooler beneath the intake plenum. It is comprised of copper that can and will degrade. This is BTW NOT found in many other cars.

I do my fluid changes myself. The dealer makes no money on my efforts.

 

Absolutely correct. Not necessary. However, using that mindset, you can either pay a little bit now or a whole lot later. Care to guess what it's going to cost to get this engine sorted out that hasn't seen an oil service in a "while?"
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I'd be a bit more discriminating and change fluids depending on usage and time. Modern coolant is good for 3 years easily. Synthetic gear and transmission oil the same, unless the car gets severe usage or such light usage that the oil is never warm enough to drive off any condensation. Brake and clutch fluid annually or more often if used hard on track.

Oil at least annually, or every 3-5000 miles for a street driven cars. Every 5 track hours otherwise.

I do not believe that transmission temps get that high for a casually driven car to warrant annual replacement and I'd have to see data to prove otherwise. This is certainly the case for my domestic cars, and I have some track data for trans temps that tells me the oil does not get over 250 deg F on track, so I have to think on the street is far less.

As part of all of this I think it's important to drive the car enough to get everything fully warm at least once a month, and I'd say that takes 20 miles or so. Short trips at low rpms and not fully warming the car are pretty harmful, in many many ways. For example, even acidic combustion by-products can just pool in the exhaust system, as well as in engine oil.

All that said, it certainly can't hurt to change all fluids more frequently.

 

But the lubrication system is a different design than most passenger cars. I'm always surprised how controlled temperatures are in the 360, especially in traffic. Amazed I tell you. She doesn't overheat.

What I do argue though.. is that which during operation the tranny oil temps are well controlled with the oil cooler assembly and intercooler, what happens after you shut down the car. With heat soak from exhaust components, I could see the oil temperatures rise after the car shuts down.

 

What about the highly coveted low mileage cars that are predominantly viewed here as the most desireable to buy? Would you still need to change fluids?

The parts are not getting hot from driving and there isn't the wear being put on them.

 

Why are my camshaft seals leaking?

 

2008 SCUD under 800 miles, isn't this the holy grail of Ferraris justifying a serious premium?
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/360-430/404564-wow-just-today.html

 

when i bought my car the last time it had been serviced for anything was three years prior for the major service. When I had the major done my mechanic told me the belts, and all fluids still looked perfect. The recommended service intervals seem a little excessive to me. Next time around I may wait 3.5-4 years before I do the major and will do all the fluids every 1.5-2 years I think.

 

Picking my car up tomorrow from the first belt/major service I've done since my 3 1/2 year ownership of the car. My mechanic recommends that every 5 years, and the fluids ever year, which I do. I put maybe 3,000 miles on a year.

 

Brian, is this the same as gear oil?

 

Yes



I'm doing another 360 gearbox right now so by all means people don't replace the oil annually.

I get a lot of money for doing these things.



So does Ferrari. The syncro sets are getting criminally expensive.


And 3 years on antifreeze?


In your Ford maybe.

I used to do it every 2 but real life experience now has me doing it every year.

 

Don't mix and match designs to determine what is appropriate maintenance. The service intervals on a Honda are different than a John Deere.

As for the F car, last time I looked there was a CAT on each side of the transaxle. The CATs put a TON of heat on that system. It is like having it in a VERY hot oven. It would guess the transaxle takes as much heat load as the engine, maybe more, and has less cooling.

I would say that not driving doesn't reduce the water absorption rates and you don't get to clear moisture out of the system. That will lead to corrosion and many of the problems Brian listed.

Then again, go for it any way you want.

 

I will defer to you but that kind of frequency of change really indicates inferior materials, design or workmanship of Ferrari compared to every other brand and including Lamborghini ( at least in the Audi era). Modern coolant and lubricants have tremendously long service lives. You can denigrate Ford all you want, but it seems odd that such an expensive car should be so unreliable to boot.