No brake lights = F1 error/no shifting? (Temp fix cycle batt, lasts ~8 key on cycles) | FerrariChat
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No brake lights = F1 error/no shifting? (Temp fix cycle batt, lasts ~8 key on cycles)

Discussion in '360/430' started by 430b, Sep 12, 2015.

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  1. 430b

    430b Karting

    Sep 12, 2015
    136
    #1 430b, Sep 12, 2015
    My car developed an issue where with key on, the Check Ok message would display, but immediately after the image of Slippery Conditions, Suspension, Manettino, E-Diff would cycle through with the F1 light on the speedo. The car would start but not shift.

    I removed and fully charged the battery and went through the 'relearn' process
    - connect battery
    - key in but off for 30 sec
    - key position 2 for 30 sec
    - key in but off for 30 sec
    - key position 2 for 30 sec
    - start and idle for 10 minutes
    - drive slow in auto mode for 15 minutes till any remaining lights cycle off
    - turn car off and back on

    This resolved my issue and I went through ~8 cycles of turning the ignition on and driving before the issue repeated itself (but was cleared in the same manner again). The whole time during those ~8 cycles the car drove awesome, almost as smooth as a torque converter auto trans in auto mode.

    Today someone told me my brake lights were out and that seemed to tie it all together where the issue came from.

    Does it seem feasible that a bad brake light switch

    (183433 [183433 BRAKE PEDAL SWITCH (BOSCH)] $44.61 each )

    Could be causing all my issues? Would the CANBUS system need ~8 cycles to realize there was an error and re-throw all the codes and restrict shifting?
     
  2. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,805
    Pittsburgh, PA
    #2 singletrack, Sep 13, 2015
    8 cycles could just be a fluke with an intermittently failing component. Not sure on that part.

    If the car can't tell when you have your foot on the brake, then it may not be able to shift into gear. So yah that could be it. Just think about being at a stop light and having your foot off the brake in manual mode while in neutral. If you don't press the brake, you can click the right paddle as much as you like and it won't shift into gear.

    You should be able to test the brake pedal switch pretty easily with a multimeter.

    Good luck!
     
  3. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 25, 2005
    9,524
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    John Zornes
    #3 Skidkid, Sep 13, 2015
    As I recall, the brake light bulbs are linked to the F1 system. Replace the burned out bulbs and see if that helps.
     
  4. 430b

    430b Karting

    Sep 12, 2015
    136
    #4 430b, Sep 13, 2015
    Good idea to check, I just automatically thought switch, it could be as simple as the bulbs.

    It definitely happens every ~8 cycles
     
  5. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2009
    4,513
    #5 Skippr1999, Sep 13, 2015
    FYI, there have been threads about this concerning 355s. If the brake lights , brake switch aren't working, no F1 !!

    I'm sure it's the same thing with the 360.
     
  6. 430b

    430b Karting

    Sep 12, 2015
    136
    #6 430b, Sep 13, 2015
  7. phrogs

    phrogs F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 13, 2004
    7,346
    Kzoo Michigan
    #7 phrogs, Sep 13, 2015
    If you lose the brake lights the F1 wont work.
    Check your fuse first it could have some corrosion on it.
     
  8. 430b

    430b Karting

    Sep 12, 2015
    136
    #8 430b, Sep 13, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2015
    Is there a fuse location diagram?

    Nevermind, found a PDF of the owners manual with the info
     
  9. 430b

    430b Karting

    Sep 12, 2015
    136
    #9 430b, Sep 13, 2015
    The Stop Light fuse was blown.

    Previous owner/shop used a 20amp vs 15amp. Any reason they might have gone up to 20? I'm planning to replace with the factory recommended 15amp.
     
  10. 430b

    430b Karting

    Sep 12, 2015
    136
    #10 430b, Sep 13, 2015
    Had my wife look at the lights and I guess only the outside 2 are lighting up for brakes. Shouldn't the middle light up too? Looks like I'll still be doing bulbs
     
  11. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 25, 2005
    9,524
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    John Zornes
    #11 Skidkid, Sep 14, 2015
    Depends on where you are. Different countries have different lighting schemes.
     
  12. 430b

    430b Karting

    Sep 12, 2015
    136
    #12 430b, Sep 14, 2015
    USA
     
  13. martiy1971

    martiy1971 Formula Junior

    Jun 2, 2015
    647
    Alberta
    Full Name:
    Robert Martineau
    #13 martiy1971, Sep 14, 2015
    The outside two and the third should light up when braking on US cars.
     
  14. 430b

    430b Karting

    Sep 12, 2015
    136
    #14 430b, Sep 14, 2015
    Interesting...

    So the center 2 lights will never be illuminated red (either while braking or with night lights on)? It's only for the white reverse light?
     
  15. London

    London Karting

    Aug 29, 2009
    189
    London
    #15 London, Sep 14, 2015
    Yes it is. For example, if your brake light fuse blows, F1 won't engage any gears from stationary (just like if you did not have your foot on the brake). Don't ask me how I know...
     
  16. 430b

    430b Karting

    Sep 12, 2015
    136
    #16 430b, Sep 19, 2015
    It sat this week, but I drove it today and after many errands the fuse popped again just as I got home.

    I'm going to replace it with a 20amp fuse like I found in there (vs the 15 amp the manual calls for)

    Any thoughts on why it could be popping though?
     
  17. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,805
    Pittsburgh, PA
    #17 singletrack, Sep 19, 2015
    I would never up-rate a fuse from the factory. You are masking a potential problem. You need to figure out what's wrong IMHO.
     
    Macshop6700 likes this.
  18. 430b

    430b Karting

    Sep 12, 2015
    136
    #18 430b, Sep 19, 2015
    Is there a wiring diagram of what the fuse connects/bridges?
     
  19. 430b

    430b Karting

    Sep 12, 2015
    136
    #19 430b, Sep 19, 2015
    Question about light operation with key on (position 2) vs running.

    Key on position 2 (not running) - 3 lights illuminate, the horizontal engine cover light and each outside tail light

    Running - only 2 lights, the horizontal brake light does not illuminate
     
  20. 430b

    430b Karting

    Sep 12, 2015
    136
    #20 430b, Oct 5, 2015
    I've seen many threads where the original poster never returned to provide a resolution, so I just wanted to let everyone know the issue is resolved.

    I purchased a 15 amp fuse from my local auto parts store and checked to ensure the center brake light was solidly secured and I've never had the issue return. I've covered ~400+ miles and brake lights and fuse work fine.
     
  21. Dino355

    Dino355 Rookie

    Nov 5, 2007
    44
    Wimbledon England
    Full Name:
    Dean
    #21 Dino355, Oct 5, 2015
    When I was fitting the LED light conversion kit to my F430 I was amazed to read that several people had just replaced the standard bulb with an LED bulb and they had problems just as you have noted. I understand that the F1 system needs to see that the brake lights are working or it will not engage any gear. The new LED conversion I have fitted comes with a new mini loom and now I have all rear lights on when I brake and they are much brighter. Not a cheap upgrade. Hope this information helps. Dean
     
  22. Dino355

    Dino355 Rookie

    Nov 5, 2007
    44
    Wimbledon England
    Full Name:
    Dean
    #22 Dino355, Oct 5, 2015
  23. Dino355

    Dino355 Rookie

    Nov 5, 2007
    44
    Wimbledon England
    Full Name:
    Dean
    #23 Dino355, Oct 5, 2015
    This mod consists in using both inner and outer tail lights for the position/parking and stop lights. Doing this will make your car much more visible especially when you’re braking as all 8 light bulbs (4 halves on each side) will illuminate. Same for the position/parking lights but using a lower intensity. Before going into the details, this mod concerns only the EURO cars. It can’t be done directly on the US cars as their tail lights operate in a very different way because both halves of the inner tail lights are used as turn signals.

    If you’ve read my previous post, http://www.***********.com/forums/modern-v8s-360-f430/16267-led-tail-lights-comparison.html, I explained that connecting 8x21W light bulbs would require a total current of 14Amp or 7Amp on each side! This mod can only be done if you consider also to install one of the LED light bulbs. In my case, I’m using the 6W High Power Lights (permalink) which will drain a maximum current of 4Amp for all 8 lights. On each side, that will be a maximum of 2Amp, so we’re safe as it won’t blow the fuses. Remember that with a blown stop light fuse, on a F1 car, you won’t be able to select a gear anymore.
     
  24. rumen1

    rumen1 Formula 3
    Owner

    Jun 23, 2012
    1,831
    Bulgaria
    #24 rumen1, Oct 9, 2015
    Similar was the case by me... I replaced the rear bulbs with LED ones and the "gearbox problem" light appeared on the dash. The diagnostic tool showed a "brake switch" error. We replaced the brake switch and we got the same error. It took us a month to discover what exactly is going on, because obviously I haven't thought, that both things are related.

    It's all because the brake switch goes trough the gearbox ECU. Unfortunately that leads to too many problems for nothing.
     
  25. gobuffs2002

    gobuffs2002 Karting

    Aug 7, 2010
    242
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    John
    #25 gobuffs2002, Oct 10, 2015
    The LED conversion will need to have resistors placed inline with the tail lights so that the right amount of current is drawn from the battery. LED's are more efficient and draw less current. I converted my 2002 360 F1 Modena to LED's all around using the Scuding system. No cutting of wires, no large resistors, and totally reversible.

    Contact Stef from Scuding, the owner, and he can better explain. I also installed the complete Scuding LED taillight system including the flashers for the tail lights and third brake light and it was easy to install and very impressive. The system will eliminate the non functioning brake light problem from disabling the F1 system. It's crazy to think that one bad brake light causes you to be stranded with no resolution other than an expensive towing bill to the nearest Ferrari dealer so he can replace a $1.50 light bulb.

    Just a point, I have no affiliation to Scuding other than being a very satisfied customer using their quality products and excellent customer focused service.
     
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