360 manual 6th gear difficulty | FerrariChat
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360 manual 6th gear difficulty

Discussion in '360/430' started by FTA, Dec 8, 2011.

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  1. FTA

    FTA Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2011
    390
    Phila., PA
    Full Name:
    Frank T
    #1 FTA, Dec 8, 2011
    Hi everyone. I have a question about my 2000 3-pedal 360. I noticed that shifting into 6th gear during most 'ordinary' drives is not a problem but at high speeds (well into triple digits) or at high loads (throttle) the car will not allow 6th gear engagement, no matter how carefully or deliberately I try to make the motion. Double clutching and 'paddling' seems to help a little, but I feel like something is wrong. Car has 30k miles. Was at Algar last week for a CEL diagnosis (was 02 sensors -- all of them apparently) and I requested a thorough test drive and described the condition but was told the tech thought all was normal, so either I'm a bad driver or he was driving the speed limit during the test drive. Anyway, Algar is having a 360 'sale' this month so it is going in for belts and I guess I'll ask Mike to have this looked at again but was wondering if any f-chatters have had a similar experience and hopefully thoughts on what could be the issue. Thx.

    Frank
     
  2. away

    away Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2004
    635
    Lansdale, PA
    Full Name:
    Andrew
    #2 away, Dec 8, 2011
    I know plenty of folks have replaced the shifter bushing. Might be worth a mention to Mike and perhaps replacing with the Hill Engineering part. I think it's ~$75 from Ricambi.
     
  3. JaguarDriver

    JaguarDriver Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 27, 2011
    176
    Atlanta, GA
    Full Name:
    Dick Maury
    #3 JaguarDriver, Dec 8, 2011
  4. Michael B

    Michael B F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Apr 28, 2004
    3,762
    US of A
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    Michael
    #4 Michael B, Dec 8, 2011
    This is a really odd suggestion but I have a pal with that issue. We came up with a solution though.

    When we shift his car overhand (thumb near top) it struggles with 6th, but when we swap our hand to underhand (thumb near bottom) it shifts like a racecar. Odd but true. Its all about the pressure being applied - which I would assume could be accompanied by a worn bushing.

    Nevertheless, fun Ferrari fact!
     
  5. rmani

    rmani F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    7,334
    NJ
    Full Name:
    RMani
    #5 rmani, Dec 8, 2011
    Curious how much is their special for the belt service?
     
  6. FTA

    FTA Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2011
    390
    Phila., PA
    Full Name:
    Frank T
    #6 FTA, Dec 8, 2011
    They are having a '360' sale this month -- all parts and labor for that specific model are 15% off, starting today. Might go thru January as well -- I cant remember. Regardless, if you need belts or anything else for a 360, now is the time and Algar is the place.

    I just ordered the Ricambi (Hill) bushing. Saw another thread about this as well. Guess I should have searched first. Sorry. Thx guys.
     
  7. southpaw802000

    southpaw802000 Karting

    Sep 7, 2011
    118
    Michigan
    Full Name:
    Lee
    #7 southpaw802000, Dec 8, 2011
    I have the same problem with my fifth gear, now I know why, thanks for posting!
     
  8. Fatty

    Fatty Karting

    Jun 5, 2010
    235
    Australia
    #8 Fatty, Dec 9, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    You described exactly what mine did, except it affected 5th and 6th gear.
    The two pieces on the left of the picture are the broken cheap plastic shift bushing (note how one of the arms snapped off), whereas the right one is a anodised aluminium from Hills engineering (get it from their website).

    Very easy to DIY and all up, cost me just AUD $70 (part inclusive).

    Good luck.
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  9. Salsero

    Salsero Karting

    Oct 6, 2006
    198
    MY
    Full Name:
    Rezal
    #9 Salsero, Dec 9, 2011
    6th on my F430 got to the point where it wouldn't engage 90% of the time. However, my tech had the shafts realigned and replaced the gearbox oil with Redline. Shifted like a charm after that
     
  10. SoftwareDrone

    SoftwareDrone F1 Veteran
    Sponsor Owner

    Jan 19, 2004
    7,860
    San Jose, California
    Full Name:
    Mike
    #10 SoftwareDrone, Dec 9, 2011
    I replaced the bushing but the 6th gear issue remained. Turns out that the shifter shaft was hitting the inner right hand side of the reverse block, located under the stainless shifter gate. I had a few mil machined off of this block and the problem vanished.
     
  11. FTA

    FTA Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2011
    390
    Phila., PA
    Full Name:
    Frank T
    #11 FTA, Dec 10, 2011
    This is interesting and something I wish I read earlier today since I just finished installing the Ricambi part (which got to me in only 2 days). Anyway, FWIW, my stock bushing came out in one piece and was not bent or warped or anything. It did, however, have some wear on its sides which were circular and appeared to make the bushing ever so slightly more narrow (perhaps a few mm in total). I'll take a pic later and post. Anyway, I didn't think it would make much difference but I installed the Hill bushing anyway. I put it all back together and could immediately feel the difference in the play of the shifter -- it was virtually gone. There is a very, very small amount -- probably like 1-2 mm -- but it is essentially 'wiggle' free whereas before there was much more play. I actually think the Hill part is slightly thicker than the stock part (when new). I drove the car and the problem appears to be 95% solved -- all the gears shift much better now and the overall operation feels much more precise. I only had difficulty engaging 6th one time during a long test drive and frankly that one instance could have been due to a lazy clutch effort on my part or it could perhaps be due to the issue mentioned above. Regardless, the improvement was considerable and I was really quite overjoyed at the outcome. The car also seemed to handle better and brake faster, though it may have just been the increased endorphin levels of the pilot due to the much more effortless shifting...

    The center console is pretty easy to get out so I might take it apart again tomorow to investigate further. In any event, the job is relatively simple, took me about an hour, and does not require removal of the shifter. The only thing that is a little bit of a PITA is getting the reverse block off of the end of the horizontal 'bar'. Mine was greased up real good which also added to the difficulty.

    Anyone with a 6 spd manual 360 should get this part and do this job. You get a lot of satisfaction from doing the work yourself and its about as cheap a repair as you are going to get with a Ferrari. Thx to Ricambi, Hill, and the other posters who previously added much invaluable expertise and guidance for this repair (in another thread).

    Frank
     
  12. chrmer3

    chrmer3 Formula 3

    May 19, 2006
    1,719
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    Chris
    #12 chrmer3, Jan 2, 2012
  13. Mikkofin

    Mikkofin Formula Junior

    Jun 30, 2011
    291
    Finland
    #13 Mikkofin, Apr 12, 2012
    "Lost" 5th and 6th today as well. Guess the bushing dismantled as the 1-4 and R are unaffected.
    Ordered the bushing (Hill) and will DIY :)
     
  14. Mikkofin

    Mikkofin Formula Junior

    Jun 30, 2011
    291
    Finland
    #14 Mikkofin, Apr 12, 2012
  15. Fatty

    Fatty Karting

    Jun 5, 2010
    235
    Australia
    #15 Fatty, Apr 12, 2012
    Lol.
    Congratz with fixing up the problem with a cheap fix! :)

    The shifting will feel slightly 'sticky', but it will smoothen over time as the bushing gets used more.

    Cheers!
     
  16. Mikkofin

    Mikkofin Formula Junior

    Jun 30, 2011
    291
    Finland
    #16 Mikkofin, Apr 17, 2012
  17. thoang

    thoang Formula 3
    Owner

    Apr 12, 2004
    1,990
    SF Bay Area
    Full Name:
    Tuan Hoang
    #17 thoang, Jul 7, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Firstly, I would like to thank Fchat! I've had some difficulty getting into 5th gear under "heavy" load, and so naturally I searched Fchat which led me to this thread. I ordered the part from Ricambi and spent a few hours installing it today. The original instructions can be found here:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=249934&highlight=360+shifter+bushing

    There's a couple things that I wanted to share with my 6spd brothers who decide the DIY.

    Once you get the stick shift out of the car, there's a spring which allows you to engage reverse. There's a block that holds the spring in place. The block is held by a roll pin. You need a roll pin punch to get the pin out. Don't try to use pliers as it will deform the end of the roll pin. But before you can get the pin out, you have to compress the spring. I used cable ties to compress the spring to take the compression off the pin/block. Then I was able to easily remove the roll pin with the punch. Oh yeah, it boggles my mind why Ferrari would use a plastic bushing in the first place. I took the car for a spin, and all is well in 5th and 6th.
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  18. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

    Feb 24, 2007
    6,678
    Silicon Valley
    #18 Need4Spd, Jul 8, 2012
    Sooner or later all manual 360s will need this part replaced. If yours hasn't been changed, you should just do it. It's one of the first things I did when I got my car.
     

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