Intermittent Clunking Sound.... | FerrariChat

Intermittent Clunking Sound....

Discussion in '360/430' started by up4speed, May 1, 2013.

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  1. up4speed

    up4speed F1 Rookie
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    Feb 16, 2012
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    Chris
    Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I've had my 2002 360 for almost a year and I have about 5,200 total miles on it, it's been silent and solid sounding over the bumps until yesterday. :(
    There is a clunking sound that almost sounds like loose wheels when I drive over washboard type bumps (I torqued the wheels just in case). It doesn't happen all the time though. It seems like the noise is very picky about when it shows up. I haven't figured out the pattern yet, but I can say that if I go over a set of bumps that causes it, it will do it every time I hit those same bumps at the same speed. Sometimes a slight bump will do it more than a larger bump. I tried going over the same bumps with the car in "sport" mode, and it seems the same, no worse or better than in normal mode. It's hard to pinpoint what direction the sound is coming from, but it seems to be coming from directly below the center of car, and I don't feel it in the steering wheel at all.

    I know there was a lot of talk about ball joints, sway bar bushings, and shock mount bushings on the forum, but I was wondering if there is a high likelihood of one of these problems based on the symptoms? Is there any checks that I can do by myself where the problem would be obvious? I'm wondering why I can't even pinpoint the problem from front to rear. If there are any checks that I can do at home, I would love to do that, instead of relying on the dealer. If not, I'll just have them check it out when I bring it in for a state required yearly safety inspection next month.
    Thanks guys!
     
  2. mikeyr

    mikeyr Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2004
    2,154
    Santa Barbara, CA.
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    Mike Rambour
    lower ball joints...

    I had my lowers fixed and the shop said the uppers are fine but if I take speed bumps at a angle I get a knock, take them straight on and no knock. I think my uppers are worn just not enough for the shop to say they were. Either that or they wanted me to get in there twice for labor and alignment.

    When the lowers were shot it sounded like a bucket of loose bolts in the front end over any bump.

    The check for the ball joints was to get the wheel off the ground and check for vertical play in the wheel, there should be none, pretty easy test.
     
  3. up4speed

    up4speed F1 Rookie
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    Is it common for ball joints to wear so quickly, and so abruptly?
     
  4. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    First hings that I'm thinking of:

    1) Ball joints
    2) Rubber bushings on the A-Arms
    3) A shock gone bad
    4) A shock mount gone bad
    5) Steering balljoints
    6) Something else bouncing around... perhaps in the front trunk..

    Odd that its so sudden.

    In the center of the car? Loose undertray?
     
  5. Pwcpro785

    Pwcpro785 Karting
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    Nov 10, 2011
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    When I first got my car (last year) I heard a similar "clunking" noise. The noise was intermittent but seemed worse while driving at lower speeds over small bumps with the suspension switched out of sport mode.

    I narrowed it down to the right front of the car.

    I found the ball joints to be in good condition but the upper had come loose in the A-arm!
    It seemed the previous install had been done with little to no adhesive. I simply sourced some Henkel Hysol, reinstalled the ball-joint then checked and greased all the ball-joints.

    That was it: Noise gone.

    Hope this helps

    Kevin
     
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  6. rsvmille676

    rsvmille676 Formula Junior

    Nov 24, 2004
    765
    G-town
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    Scott Major
    I agree with what many have posted, I get to work with a few 360's on a regular basis, we had a clunk as well and it turned out to be the front sway bar bushings and the sway bar was bumping or clunking up and down in the mount.

    Just something else to look at. I know I've got some pics somewhere.
     
  7. up4speed

    up4speed F1 Rookie
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    Great advice guys. Thanks! I'll try to look into to as much as I can. If I can't figure it out, I'll have the dealer take a look at it. Hopefully it's easy to find.
     
  8. up4speed

    up4speed F1 Rookie
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    I'm 99% sure that I found the problem...and it's not good :(
    I put it on the lift today, pulled off the front panel (didn't really help) and raised the front of the car off of the runways in order to inspect everything. I carefully looked at all the bushings and sway bar ends etc. Everything looked in tact, and like brand new. I then grabbed each wheel and shook them. What do you know, it sure sounded like the sound that I was hearing over the bumps. There was a little play in the wheel (actually a decent amount), along with that knocking noise coming from close to the center of the car. I attached a video so you can hear the noise and see what I did to duplicate it, however all of the motion isn't play in the wheel. The other side also moved a little when I moved it. I'm pretty sure that the steering rack is shot! AAARRGGHHH!!!
    Please listen and tell me if you guys agree. If so, any idea how much it will cost to fix?
    Thanks
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zAg4KU8bEY&feature=em-upload_owner]Steering Noise - YouTube[/ame]
     
  9. cm2

    cm2 Formula 3

    Sep 26, 2012
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    Seems like that would be a lower ball joint or loose tie rod?
     
  10. up4speed

    up4speed F1 Rookie
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    I fell into the 1% chance that it wasn't the steering rack. I went back out to the garage with a helping hand, and realized that when the other side was held, the wheels were solid. Even though I would have sworn that the noise was right at the steering rack under the car, I realized that it was actually the steering wheel lock causing the noise! When I held the steering wheel firmly, everything was solid.
    I guess it's good news that the steering rack is good because it saves me $$$$$. The bad news is that I'm back to step one, and everything looks and feels perfect under there. I guess I'm going to have to leave it with the pros to solve, unless anyone here has other ideas for things that I can check.
    Thanks again to all.
     
  11. Trent

    Trent Formula 3

    Dec 10, 2003
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    I think the procedure is to raise one wheel at a time. This will lock the steering mechanism.

    My guesses are the same as vrsurgen
    But would also add wheel bearings.
     
  12. cm2

    cm2 Formula 3

    Sep 26, 2012
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    If you jack one wheel up only, is there any wobble of the wheel/tire if you put your hands at 12 and six (instead of 3 and 9) and try and shake forward/back (try hands working together or opposed directionally)
     
  13. Pwcpro785

    Pwcpro785 Karting
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    To add to the description of the issue I had:
    I too tried jacking up and shaking the front tires with a pry bar and everything was tight but my knocking remained.

    As it turned out the loose (unsecured) balljoint was on the top A-arm and seeing as the shock and sway-bar are connected to the lower A-arm I couldnt reproduce the clunk with the normal pry-the-tires method.

    With the car jacked up and the wheel removed try moving the upper A-arm only and/or remove the upper boot (cover) and verify that the balljoint and arm are bonded together and move as one.
     
  14. up4speed

    up4speed F1 Rookie
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    Thanks, I'll try this tomorrow afternoon, and post the results.

    I'll also try this tomorrow afternoon and post the results.
    Also, just to be sure, I'm going to empty EVERYTHING out of the front trunk. I don't have much and it is all soft and light stuff. I just want to be 100% sure that I didn't miss something.
    I found a spot in me neighborhood that produces the sound every time I go over those bumps. I will know for sure when I finally find and fix the problem.
     
  15. up4speed

    up4speed F1 Rookie
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    #15 up4speed, May 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I think I have a little good news!
    I took a closer look at the suspension today. I first jacked up each side independently, and held the wheel at different positions and rocked it with a lot of force. Everything seemed solid, so I then removed the wheels so I can get a closer look at everything.
    I checked everything very carefully, all the rubber bushings looked like new and all the bolts were tight. Then I started shaking all the different components, and realized that the passenger side sway bar end link had play in it!! , the noise made it evident. I attached a video of that as well so you guys can tell me what you think. I'm sure that's the problem because the drivers side was solid. Thankfully it's something minor, but now I have a few questions:

    1. Are there after market end links that are better than the stock ones, for example HE.

    2. Should I change both end links, or just the bad one? I'm thinking both. Since the passenger side went bad, I can't imagine the drivers side too far behind. Please let me know, I would like to order them today if possible.

    3. Are they easy to replace myself? Normally these things are easy to replace, but looking in there, they seem tight to get at with tools. If the bolts are stuck, I may need a special tool (maybe a curved open end wrench or a crows foot), or I may have to take other things apart so I can get at it (not willing to do that). There are only 2 flat spots for a tool to grab on the links, and they are very thin. I don't even know if a standard open end wrench can grab on without interference from the end link boot, or the lock nut. I attached a photo for you guys to see what I mean.

    If you have replaced these by yourself, please give me any advice that can help me do this with minimal pain and suffering!
    Thanks again!


    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLoxWvNxTjU&feature=em-upload_owner[/ame]
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  16. up4speed

    up4speed F1 Rookie
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    Really good news!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Before I ordered the end links, I wanted to make sure that it wasn't loose in the roll bar since a lot of people said that it was common for the end links to loosen up. Well, what do you know, even though it looked tight by looking at it, it actually was loose! I tightened it up, and tested it. It now drives just like new again!
    Thanks for all the help. Hopefully my situation helps others as well in the future. The lesson is to check all the mounting hardware first, even if it looks ok.
     
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  17. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I really like the way you used video and the chat board to communicate your problem! Thanks for that!
     
  18. up4speed

    up4speed F1 Rookie
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    Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. I'm beyond happy with the fix!
    I really hope that the thread can help others in the future.
     
  19. BSU

    BSU Formula 3

    Mar 30, 2008
    1,012
    TX
    I'm glad it ended up being a minor issue.

    Also, great use of this Board. How many guys would have just dropped it off at the shop and asked them to "fix it"? Could lead to $$$ if the mechanic was not thorough and went at the wrong thing. I might have been one of those guys, but in the future maybe not.
     
  20. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Chris I do hope you had a lottery ticket yesterday? ;) lucky guy!
     
  21. up4speed

    up4speed F1 Rookie
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    Curt,
    LOL, I already won! I left the ticket for someone else to win also ;)
     
  22. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
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    Up4speed so you just tightened up the top sway bar link where it joins the sway bar ?
     
  23. mello

    mello F1 Veteran
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    Long shot... check the transaxle mount.
     
  24. John_K_348

    John_K_348 F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2013
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    Good find! I think you got it. Change both together. If you had any play at all in the ball joints, you will want to do those too. Hill joints are a great solution. The stock Ferrari, chrome plated mild steel are just not strong enough. They will crack, chip, peel and rust. Hill Stainless will be one and done. Good you checked the bushings too. Mine are near perished and will be on the list next year with the ball joints.
     
  25. up4speed

    up4speed F1 Rookie
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    Yes! It was as simple as that. I owned the car for 5 more years and approx. 9,000 more miles, and didn't have any further issues.
     

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