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Watch the 550 washing guys!

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by fatbillybob, Jul 6, 2013.

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  1. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
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    #1 fatbillybob, Jul 6, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This is pictures of a low mile 550 with water damage down the ECU's. Be careful when washing your 550 or driving in light rains. This is caused by water intrusion following the "A" piler down the ECU wires to the plug through the seal into the ECU. I have seen this on 4
    550 ECU's so far. Pros have told me this is a common problem. My one 550 is a high miler so when the ECU's had corrosion I blamed it on high mileage wear and tear plus elements. My second 550 has only 21K miles and looks like a garage queen and here are the pictures below. Unfortunately there is no solution. Ferrari did not give us enough cable to make a drip loop. I have not studied the problem maybe the ECU's can be remounted. Maybe I can find another way to direct the wicking water away from the connector. All I can say is check your ECU's. This may just need to be a part of regular service. Also notice the ECU plug female pin spreading. Look into your plugs in good light. If pins are spreading you are loosing good contact and that can be a source of ghost error codes. The only solution for this is the SRI gold connector kit. I recently pulled the ECU plug on my other 550 and the 2 year old gold pins are still nice tight and closed and giving superior contacts. Hypothetically, If you have a marginal 02 sensor and marginal electrical contacts and you get the error code what happens? Your tech changes the 02 sensor. Then when the new 02 sensor looses efficiency you get the code again but half the problem is really bad contacts. Maybe there is really 10's or thousands of miles of life in those 02 sensors just like there is in a Toyota. If you are ghost busting think about the gold kit.
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  2. dakharris

    dakharris Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #2 dakharris, Jul 6, 2013
    Interesting. My ECUs failed due to heat. They cracked. I guess the solution is to keep that engine compartment just hot enough to evaporate moisture but not hot enough to cause fatigue.
     
  3. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #3 fatbillybob, Jul 6, 2013
    I have never heard of that but I am sure it is possible. The motronic ECU's I speak of are in the passenger footwells unless you are thinking about the exhaust ecus a CAN bus subsystem. If heat cooks an ecu my guess would be internal heat generated by high resistance making localized heat and burning stuff out locally that can effect things a large distance away. The primary cause of high resistance heat? ... bad connections.
     
  4. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
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    #4 Cribbj, Jul 6, 2013
    Great advice Carl, it looks like periodic use of Deoxit could bring some temporary relief, but as you pointed out the continual extraction/insertion of the connectors is going to eventually weaken their connection and lead to spooky behavior.
     
  5. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

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    #5 ferraridriver, Jul 6, 2013
    My goodness, you certainly have clean fingernails Carl ;)
     
  6. dakharris

    dakharris Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #6 dakharris, Jul 6, 2013
    Yes, I was thinking of the exhaust ECUs.
     
  7. strongx

    strongx Karting

    Mar 20, 2009
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    #7 strongx, Jul 8, 2013
    One solution is to drive a Barchetta. I find that is a very good reminder not to drive in the rain and to be careful when washing the car...
     
  8. bay

    bay Formula 3

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    #8 bay, Jul 8, 2013
    hello fatbillybob,
    What is the location of the ECU ?
    thanks
     
  9. henryr

    henryr Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #9 henryr, Jul 8, 2013
    so you have water running down the a pillar into the top of the footwell box where the ECU is ?

    does it get wet there after a bath ?
     
  10. xfader

    xfader Rookie

    May 8, 2012
    2
    #10 xfader, Jul 10, 2013
    I was the one manning the hose! Sorry!

    Just a note: It was not a regular car wash. More like a detail in preparation for a Car Show. I must've rinsed the car 4 times that day.

    Had I known, I would've dry washed using Speed Shine and some MF towels before polishing.
     
  11. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #11 fatbillybob, Jul 10, 2013
    Not your fault buddy. It is another Ferrari design flaw. We just need to add it to the list like shrinking dash leather and failing fuel tank rubber.
     
  12. butcher

    butcher Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2008
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    Albert
    #12 butcher, Jul 11, 2013
    Yes he meant the Exhaust ECU's. heat killed them because DAK tends to drive his 550 a lot more than the average 550 driver. :)
     
  13. AHudson

    AHudson F1 Rookie
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    #13 AHudson, Jul 12, 2013
    So here I am, a 550 fan, reading this technical design flaw issue involving ECUs, spreading pins, low voltage pickups... and come across this. Truly laughed out loud.

    As for someone who did the ENTIRE Gold Connector Kit for my 512TR, I am way too familiar with the spreading pins issue. Had a variety of 'ghosts' extricated in the process.

    Not so much with running issues, but enough to know that water and weak contacts are what these electrical ghosts feed upon. Sneaky devils.

    And in a very unscientific test during the upgrade, I had replaced the ECU (Motoronic 2.7 on the TR) connectors for one bank, but not the other. Started the car to watch the 'self check' lights do their dance then go off as hoped. After a few minutes of running, I placed my hand on each ECU, and detected a noticeable difference in heat, with the 'OEM' side much warmer.
     
  14. Pete Wall

    Pete Wall Formula Junior

    Apr 1, 2005
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    Perth, Australia
    #14 Pete Wall, Jul 14, 2013
    Thanks very much for the information.

    Does the 575 have this issue too?
     
  15. wbklink

    wbklink F1 Rookie

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    #15 wbklink, Jul 14, 2013
    Hi carl.

    I think I had 2 replaced that are in the engine compartment, right and left side by the fire wall.

    Are those the ones you're talking about ?

    cheers,

    Bill
     
  16. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #16 fatbillybob, Jul 14, 2013
    No. Those are the SDECU's that control the dash slow down lights. AKA exhaust ecu's. I am talking about the motronic ecus that are in the driver and passenger footwell just behind the kickplate quarter panel. There is no reason for a non-diy'er to go in there.

    ******But IMO based on what I have seen, owners need to think about how they use their 550's so they can decide what compromises to take in the form of future maintenance. *****

    I can only assume from what I have seen and what I have heard from pros that this is a universal problem. Moisture wicks and corrosion results from cars that are washed and cars that go out in the rain because the moisture enters from the base of the "A" piller. Two years ago I cleaned out the ECU corrosion when doing the SRI gold kit retorfit. In two years I have not washed my old 550 except to use a spray bottle of water and a rag. It has not been in the rain. I live by the beach and when I just examined the ECU plugs there is no corrosion. I can only assume the PO washed the car or it saw rain. As you know the Red 550 got killed by washing and I posted the so called cleaned out plug above.

    So, if you drive the car like a car. Wash the car like a car. Drive in the rain like any other car I suggest that pulling the ECU plug and checking it and cleaning it be on your list of things to do at your major. If the plug is clean close it back and don't remove it again.
    If you have corrosion in there you need to periodically clean it out. I don't have an interval I say at every major for now. If you don't wash the car and don't drive in the rain then leave the ECU plug alone. The reason for leaving alone is because the cheap OEM pins are very poor. They were not designed for a bunch of insertion/removal cycles which helps to weaken them and loose clamp force. So this is not something you want to do all the time. You do not want to take a good running car and mess up the contacts and start having problems. If you want good strong connections the SRI gold pins seem to do the job. They are designed to take multiple insertion/removal cycles. On the Red 550 I can only assume that the ECU plug has never been removed, yet there are separated pins in the ECU plug and SRI's gold kit will be fixing that. I had multiple codes that all were cleared after cleaning and bending the ECU plug pins for better contact. This works for a time and then the codes come back. The gold kit is the only thing I have found so far to keep them away.

    summary:
    hassles with multiple codes clean the ECU plugs
    exposure to water Clean the ECU plugs
    corollary: no corrosion, do not clean, put back, do not do again
    corollary: corrosion then have a schedule for routine plug cleaning
    no exposure to water and no codes leave it alone
     
  17. wbklink

    wbklink F1 Rookie

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    #17 wbklink, Jul 14, 2013
    Thanks Carl, As you know I do drive my car all the time and in all kinds of weather.
    So I will have my guys look into it as you suggested.
    I'll forward this on to them.
    Once again Thank You !
    Bill
     
  18. RWebber

    RWebber Formula Junior

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    #18 RWebber, Jul 16, 2013
    Great post Carl, thanks.

    Is there anything to prevent this while considering the car will get washed?
     
  19. Bertt

    Bertt Formula Junior

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    #19 Bertt, Jul 20, 2013
    Before you pull the connector from the ECU(s) to check the condition of the connectors, I assume you should switch off the electricity using the main power switch (and after reconnecting and putting the power on again going through the ECU learning phase)?

    Cheers,
    Bert
     
  20. Nativetroy

    Nativetroy F1 Veteran
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    #20 Nativetroy, Jul 21, 2013
    Other than the gold pin kit, is there any corrosion inhibitors you could use? Maybe sealed with electrical grease? Just curious, have used it on several jeeps and trucks that see a lot of water/mud. And boats. Haven't worked on a Ferrari though, so don't know if the electronics are more sensitive.
     
  21. RWebber

    RWebber Formula Junior

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    #21 RWebber, Jul 23, 2013
    The second photo shows the floor carpet and the kick panel on the side, just below the A-pillar.
    A serious Ferrari design issue where water can take out the whole car and promote expensive repairs

     
  22. mr creosote

    mr creosote Rookie

    Aug 18, 2013
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    #22 mr creosote, Feb 13, 2014
    Hi, I have a starting problem.The problem I have began when I drove the car and the abs light came on, then when I stopped it and then tried to start again it would not start.The slow down warning came on when cranking.Left the car for around 5 hrs and then it started,stopped the car and would not start again.The car would start every day for the next few days but when it was switched of would not start again for 5 or 6 hrs.Left the car for around 2 weeks and now when it cranks over the slow down warning comes on and car will not start.There seems to be no spark and I don't think there is a injector pulse.We had allot of rain and the front passenger carpet is wet next to all the relays.Any help appreciated.
     
  23. rmfurzeland

    rmfurzeland Formula Junior

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    #23 rmfurzeland, Feb 14, 2014
    Mr Creosote,
    Yes, this is probably one or more bad connections at the ECUs try the passenger footwell one first, I had the same symptoms ABS and slowdown light while experimenting with the connectors. Need clean connectors and female spring clips to hold well. The 88 pin connector may also not be fitting well , make sure bottom end goes in well and then swing top end in with the metal clip, push in firmly.
    Ron
     
  24. rmfurzeland

    rmfurzeland Formula Junior

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    #24 rmfurzeland, Feb 14, 2014

    You are 100% correct, for safety switch off battery which means do the relearn.
    Ron
     
  25. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #25 tazandjan, Feb 14, 2014
    The wet carpet could be from the air conditoning system evaporator drain hose. When this clogs, water from the evaporator ends up on the carpets on the passenger side. Naturally, that is also where the fuse and relay boxes reside.
     
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