Any Le Mans Drivers/Owners on F-Chat?

Thanks! Actually I’ve had a blast wandering down memory lane, or rather motoring down Memory Mulsanne, and an even better time reading everyone else’s posts. It was only when hammering away at the keyboard I realized that, until now, no one has ever asked me before what it was like to be there. And there won't be a book, after all, you either tell the truth and get sued to hell and back or lie like a stoat and produce sycophantic dross, or so it seems to me.

Hey, Wax, thanks for starting the thread!

 

Paul Frame aint doing much racing these days, unless it between cells

-a

 

...

I just edited what I originalyy said as it would have been removed by ROB for sure..

I am disgusted at this thread...

and Jack - your a disgrace!!

If you be so inclined to read other post and stop wanting to read your own stupid remarks you would know that Roland i sunable or should I say its very painful for him to type for the moment and for some time to come.

For people who seem to be so educated on LeMans and such and know everyone in the world, why not ask who the releif drivers and pickup drivers were they are not on your all mighty list either...

Anyone that has been to the Ranch knows ...

Again I have to say that the lack of respect torwards a man that only has brought happiness to people and never turned anyone waway from a ride or assistance on the and off the track, you are like voltures.

Kick a man when he is down, do what you must, but remember it comes back triple.. mark it....

sick... plain sick..

Rob, this is BS and you know it.. I have read and listen to the antics of a bunch of people that talk alot and act like they know everything and or wown every ferrari on the planet .. fine.., but attacking an individual that has done so much for most people on this board, when he cant even respond is outragous!!

And as I know it, Roland help make this board what it is today, so I cant find that in print so it MUST not be.....

What ever!! refund my subscription and I will never log in again..

-a

 

Well things change, and as a moderator, you should have more respect for Honoray members as well, and should ask before posting like an in idiot!


-a

 

(I would hope that Rob or another mod, would make this a sticky, and post it at top) !!

To all,

Roland called me this morning and told me this :

//

Sorry for being “out” but my surgery didn’t work out and I’m facing even more surgery. I’m in no shape to spend time on a PC with my lack of energy and mobility troubles.

Let’s get the record straight regarding Le Mans. I was the team manager/tester for a back up factory GT P team and we won twice.

Words got out of that achievement and got out of context, .. Not so even If I did race there 24hrs and 1000KM.

I’m also the one who drove the car on the road to and from both years and that made lots of news.

I’m proud to have been part to that great race and team, even if we missed 4 more attempts at a win.

A few years back, I got “hired” as a consultant and went back to the great event and that ended without success as well, but we tried.

This should cleared up any confusions .

Roland E. Linder
////

That was his above words, and mine are , its amazing in this world that a person can assits so many, and HELP or never turn down a ride to another person and support FChat in so many ways, acan be brought to such a justification , why cause your jealous, or just have nothoing better to do ??

NOT ONCE have I ever heard Roland state he was the driver , or that he did anything alone...

The TEAM WON... and yes they won TWICE.. (2 Times), (1 +1) as a TEAM, I guess some of us dont understand that these are TEAM events, and although the driver is listed, there are more then just the DRIVER on the team as well.

I am sure everyone will find a away to wiggle out of an apologiey, but if I was Roland I wouldnt even want it..

-a

 

I think that all the doubters need to know is that Roland will always be a better driver and most importantly a MUCH BETTER PERSON than they ever will be!

T

 

Not to take anything away from Roland Linder, as I have never seen/heard him personally say he drove and won at LeMans but then it seemed like this whole episode has a long history wherein, for some reason, the presumption has been that Roland drove, and won at LeMans. There have been enough references to that on this thread and many others, with a lot of people here on this site either believing it, and/or perpetuating incorrect information. The result of all this is that for some, poor Roland's reputation has been tarnished when it should not be. A shame really, Roland's contributions to LeMans history are enough on their own. But what I find a bit "uncomfortable" is the assault on some of the members here by other individuals simply because they asked the question, "If Roland won, why no record?" The people asking this question posted and reposted, in an appropriate manner, the same query, and got no response from anyone as to any details. At this point, some of Roland's supporters should have said " Hey, Roland is hurt, recovering from surgery, give him some time to recuperate, and then he will respond with the fact and details." But no one did and this only made it easier for the doubters to continue on. Finally, and perhaps just a bit too late, the truth was revealed, but not before a few people got a bit "inappropriate" with their comments.

Finally, and on a personal note--Having been involved with LeMans a bit myself I cannot, unfortunately, agree with Mr. Oliver about how to define whether you have won LeMans. Having been part of differing teams that have won at LeMans twice now (And thanks to Carsten Christiansen for the pictures from Tom K's book.) I think I am in a good position to speak of how to define one's role at LeMans. I have never said to anyone "That I have won LeMans"-as that has historically been a reference to you driving and winning at LeMans, and that is the message you are sending. Instead I have said, as can be seen in my original post in the thread that I was a designer of a winning car and engineer on a winning car. Slight but big difference.

In moments or true "bravado" I may say I was part of a winning team at LeMans, but even that seems to me to be too close to bragging and trying to give a slightly false impression.

Oh well, to each his own and I hope that Roland recovers fully and quickly.

 

This is what I see:

Roland never directly said "he won LeMans". However, he allowed other people to make those statements, knowing they (the statements) were incorrect. Make of that whatever you will. I have my own thoughts, but I'll keep them to myself.

I have yet to see any response to the Ducati question I posed to Roland though.

AWhite: you seem to be his spokesperson, any comments about Roland's Ducat racing, since Roland can't seem to make a statement for himself? I had sent Roland a PM, a year ago about that issue, but he never responded. Wonder why?

Art

 

Someone needs a hug....

 

You seem a little bit starry -eyed. The Mother's ad, and other things, clearly imply he was a two time winning DRIVER at Lemans. Car racing, especially at the top levels, is a rough, kick-ass war. Put yourself in the limelight and you're going to get scrutinized.
I'm glad Roland was straight with what he told you, perhaps you should let Mother's Wax know too.

 

That's too bad -- I'll have to content myself with your posts.

Speaking of "lying like a stoat" in a book -- it seems it can be very lucrative indeed!!
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/jamesfrey/0104061jamesfrey1.html

 

Roland has always had a open door policy at the RANCH, and has never turned a fellow Fchat person away. He opens his home to people to view his past, his special things in life, and this is what he gets ??

So if the Denver Broncos win the super bowl, the coaches, cant claim they won a super bowl ?? Give me a FREAKING BREAK PEOPLE

Art, No I am NOT Rolands spoke person, I am a Friend, who is amazed at this.. and to be honest, if I saw the way you jumpoed to conclusoions I would email you either, you seem like a jerk to me. and most likely I am wrong about that, but am not affraid to sapeak my mind.

If Roland doesnt want to respond to a question its his own right, but that doesnt make it wrong,... Maybe Roland doesnt like you, maybe he is busy, maybe he just was what ever .... And when did it become his life and job to answer to anyone ?
when he hasnt involved you in anything ??


Who the hell knows... but to jump to conclusions cause someone doesnt answer a question doesnt make them guilty!!

This thread has made me really second guess this forum and the support we put forth for it.

I for one , will make sure I never purchase anything from ************.com and other relation sites too it, and I will make sure that no one I know ever does either...

From a sponsor on this board, for this to go this far, is insane...

so again, So you didnt buy your house the bank did... right ?? is this what we are suppose to expect ?

In racing, every member of the tream is part of the TEAM.. when the TEAM wins, the TEAM wins...

I have been party to many events and been part of many winning teams, ansdd for 1 second I dont hesitate to be proud and STATE I won, as I put my heart and blood, sweet etc into doing my part as the TEAM, and we WON!!


I expected everyone to try and justify there actions and not be able to just say " oops sorry , I was wrong" but this is america were everyone has to be right, and god forbid have to admit to something being wrong..

 

Well, I guess that's it. The forum and store will now be closed. Without awhite, our lives are ruined. You have single handedly ruined the best thread we have had in a long time. It even made thread of the month until you came in... Get some help...

 

Wax
My interpretation was that GTP referred to GT Prototype - the main class at Le Mans

 

Yea thats what my response said.. ..

-a

 

Here I am again... :-D

Wow!

Ok, interesting thread this is becoming...

First of all to Roland: All the best with the surgery and I sincerely wish you a speedy recovery. I trust that you understand that we are talking about racing here, NOT about persons, characters etc.

Now let me recap how this all developed in MY mind and MY mind only.

The issue was triggered when Roland was mentioned as being involved twice at Le Mans on December 21, in post # 7.

I don't pretend to know a lot so poor old me has to stick to what has been recorded and the records show no "Roland Linder" at Le Mans (I believe I have elaborated enough on that already).

The Mother's website for which Roland shot a commercial clearly shows Roland being advertised as "two-time 24 Hours of LeMans winner" (an image from their site has already been posted here.

Even though awhite will probably disagree, that is quite a claim that is being made there, so much the more since there are financial issues involved.

Regardless of who the claim makes, the statement is pretty clear to most reasonable people; a "Le Mans winner" is a person who was a driver in a car that was victorious at the 24 Heures du Mans.

This does not take away any of the "value" of being a member of a team that has been victorious at that race, far from it. Everybody involved with race-winning teams is entitled to a good degree of pride in that. Fact remains that when Michael Schumacher wins a Grand Prix, HE is the race winner, nobody else. Does this entitle any of the team member to proclaim themselves GP winners? No. Simple as that. Same goes for "Le Mans winner". (To make a stretch... can Felippe Massa already proclaim himself a GP winner now that he is member of Scuderia Ferrari?)

Since I am a HUGE fan of Le Mans, I was surprised that I didn't know this "twice Le Mans winner" which triggered some research which still left me empty handed, NO Roland Linder at Le Mans in a driving capacity AT ALL.

I turned all my Le Mans records upside down (that goes back to 1923!) and still nothing...

However, when you Google "roland linder" le mans winner you get not less that 50 results.. no mean feat... there are plenty of web sites that would pay a royal sum to get that many hits in Google..

So, there had to be some truth in it...

I PM'ed Roland for help on this, I sent him an email... no response... yet his last visit to Fchat was AFTER I PM-ed and emailed him... Both the PM and the email contained a link to this specific thread.

Roland's involvement with Le Mans was first mentioned 23 days ago here in this thread yet NOBODY, really NOBODY had a clue of what his involvement was (and there are some pretty knowledgeable people here...).

In post # 160 I went as far as listing ALL Le Mans winners of the last 35 years trying to figure out who could be Roland (maybe even in disguise or under a pseudonym) but again to no avail...

Yet there was still the claim by Roland's sponsor and not less that 50 hits on the Internet that he was not only a Le Mans winner, but even twice and some sites even claim three times winner...

Again, awhite will probably disagree, but this raises the VERY legitimate question if that claim (of twice Le Mans winner) is indeed correct and this has NO relation to how good or bad a person is, how many rides this person gives or who makes the claim... the claim is being made and the claim raises a question.

VERY simple in my eyes.

I have always kept the possibility open that I overlooked something or misinterpreted the records.

I ended post # 160 with the words:

"The only thing I can think of is that the claim to fame is incorrect or that I am COMPLETELY overlooking something...

I sincerely HOPE that it is the latter which is why I hope that Roland steps up and sets the records straight and that the claim to fame is NOT based on winning some completely unknown race "somewhere near Le Mans" twice."

NEVER have I called Roland a liar, questioned his integrity or whatever but yes, I did make some jokingly remarks about it, as did many others and yes, I did challenge him to enlighten us all but to no avail.

I think that it is not more than normal that when such a question is raised but that the combined expertise of all Le Mans fans here can not figure out on what that claim is being based after 23 days and 180 (!) posts and the matter has been brought to the attention of the person in question but who remains silent yet does visit this forum after that... yeah... then I really start to doubt the correctness of the claim (and again... that is irrespective of by WHOM the claim is made!).

I have read this entire thread over and over again and I don't feel that I stepped out of line in any of the posts that I made.

awhite may rant as he wants but being the close friend that he claims to be of Roland, it is at least remarkable to see tha he was also unable to answer the question and had to call Roland to get an answer...

I am glad that Roland set the record straight now but I am unhappy that my doubts have been confirmed.

 

GTP (Grand Touring Prototype) was never a class at Le Mans. During the prototype era the cars were refered to as "Group C". GTP is what the cars
were called during the prototype era in IMSA from the mid 80s through the
early 90s.

Likewise, there is not a class called "GT Porsche" any more than there is a class called "GT BMW" for example.

For a definitive history on sports car racing and Le Mans, the book "Time & Two Seats" by Dr. Janos Wimpffen contains the results and records of every sports car race which took place up until it was published.

But, looks as is typical in Ferrari Chat lately, a perfectly good and interesting
thread is brought down to the level of a below average six year old.

BHW

 

Amen

 

GTP was actually a class at Le Mans from 1976 - 1981 which coincides more or less with the IMSA class (some years aka GTX class) at Le Mans.

Typical contenders in the GTP class were (just picking one per year):

1976: Lancia Stratos Turbo
1977: WM P76 - Peugeot
1978: Rondeau M 378 - Ford Cosworth DFV
1979: WM P.79 - Peugeot
1980: Porsche 924 Carrera Turbo
1981: Porsche 924 GTP "944 LM"

 

It seems so very simple to me the very first post on this thread. Who, What and When... I don't see how this got so out of hand. Let's start over...

Joe Hullett
Electronics Engineer
Le Mans 2000 Porsche GT3 R
Le Mans 2001 Callaway Corvette C12R

 

Adam:

I'm sure that Roland did all those things. I'm also sure that there was a business motive behind at least some of the "good deeds" that he performed. However, I'm also sure that he's inflated his history, at least that's my opinon, and I've seen nothing to convince me otherwise.

As for your post, if you're not his spokesperson, why in the world are you posting his statements on this board, etc????

Nope, someobdy found that the emporer has no clothes. Good job Tom.

Art