Slow Window Fix - Circuit Description

Because I have been seeing this thread over the last week I took note today while driving the Fcar today. So both my DS and PS windows take 4 seconds to go up and 4 seconds to go down. I know this isn't considered fast such as my newer cars but I don't find this to be a problem. So I must be getting a better reading on my window speeds then others . So how slow is slow??

 

4 seconds is very good.

Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses

 

Says it all really..

 

To answer the question from above:
Some people have windows that take 20 seconds or more to go up or down.
I am sure Frazer is okay with the posts about how the thing works because he knows many people will buy the unit he has made to avoid the hassle of making them. The point I was making is that others may look at creating a fix, but will not do it because they know what will be coming. Lots of people explaining why you should not buy the fix that someone took the initiative to build.

BT

 

Hello from Germany,

I don't understand this discussion. The whole thing with the slow windows is mechanical and electrical basics. Mechanical regarding old grease which affects the worm and roller gear and electrical basics regarding the need to eliminate circuit resistance and possibly installing relays.

For those who don't understand or are not interested at all in these basics, a bolt on solution like offered, is a great thing. Those who are able to solve the problem with the above mentioned solutions, won't probably buy these black boxes.
Therefore it's useless and unnecessary to explain the details of the circuits, though it will surely not affect the sales, because there are people who wish fast working windows, but are absolutely not interested in electrical backgrounds.

Best Regards

Martin

 

Jim, sorry, but you're wrong, the old grease doesn't get pushed out of the way, it stays inside the regulator housing & keeps gumming up the works until it's removed & replaced with fresh lube.

However, I agree 100% with your other points about dealing with ALL electrical connection & mechanical resistance problems first. 99% of the time on the 308s/328s/Mondials they will take care of the problems w/o adding either Mike Tarrant's relay circuit, or Frazier Smith's circuit (or both, they are NOT the same, and should compliment each other).

I also concurr with Frazier that the wire gauge used in the OEM wiring is really a tad too light for this application. Going 2 gauges heavier should help quite a bit.

BTW, Mike Tarran'ts circuit diagram got lost in the Fchat hard drive crash, would someone please post it again?

 

Verell, don't be sorry. I have been wrong once before. Hey, I am probably wrong for the 2nd time. Knock yourselves out. Clean that old grease. Put in heavier wire, a relay or two. Hire a couple of small slaves to hide in the door space and push that window up and down. I am being facetious, of course. Just making fun. Here is the real skinny.

(Verell - Your comments are very well received, and offered in a polite and constructive manner. I hope mine are as well. Furthermore, in no way do I mean to disparage work done by bric-a-brac or others. As I mentioned in my original post, their initiative and innovation is to be commended, and that they make a profit is worthy of emulation, not ridicule. I just could not understand the attack on Paul-308, who seemed genuine in his contribution.)

I have disassembled 6 Dino window motors. All had "thick" grease that was stationed on the radius of the large nylon gear, but not touching the gear. As the gear turns, it (years ago) plowed its way through the grease, leaving the "thick" grease beyond contact.

However, even if the grease stayed within the gear, as mentioned in my post, the mechanical advantage of the gear and worm gear far exceed any resistance offered by thick grease. I urge you to try and stop the gear with your fingers as it turns. It is impossible. Grease, even if dried up, would not slow or stop the gear. My experience has been that the glass sliding up and down the channels offers 1) far greater resistance and 2) at a far greater mechanical advantage. As mentioned below (or above depending on your F-chat preferences), a gentle touch with your pinky will stall the glass moving upward.

This is not to say that if you disassemble the motor that you should not change the grease. I am merely suggesting that 1) it is unnecessary to disassemble the motor if the window is slow and 2) the dry grease that many describe is not significantly impacting the rotation of the motor.

I do agree that current to the motor is compromised by corroded contacts. As I have recently built my own wiring harness using larger diameter wire (lower gauge), and have carefully studied voltage drops and contact resistance, I have found that the gauge wire is not the constraining issue. It is the contact resistance between male and female spades, ground contact resistance, and fuse contact resistance that has introduced significant I-squared R loses (heat) and voltage drop. Time would be better spent with sandpaper and/or new crimped spades.

Finally, to quantify the wire gauge issue and its lack of influence on slow windows, please note that each circuit is protected by a rated fuse. The fuse rating and wire gauge is required by engineering practice to be at least 25% greater than the anticipated current. (In house wiring it is 25% greater - a 20-amp fuse for a 16 amp anticipated draw). Hence, the maximum current allowed (by fuse) through the window motor circuit is 16 amperes. The wire gauge recommended for 16 amps is 14 gauge (for short lengths used in the car). Providing 12-gauge wire (as I did in my new harness) does not significantly change the resistance of 10 feet of wire. I could have used 14 gauge.

By the way, applying 12 volts directly from the battery to the window motor will speed things up, but I posit that it is because the motor is not getting 12 volts owing to contact resistance. A relay is one way of solving this issue, and Bric a Brac's solution is elegant. The old fashion, grunt way is to clean or replace male/female contacts and to clean the fuse contacts.

Jim S.

 

i like to know how many here have try this black box window booster on there 308 cars is it working?

 

me

 

any moore?

 

Yes, me too... go to the original thread at http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106031