WARNING! BAD CAR! BAD DEALER! My Story!

This is based upon my recent real life experience and is my personal opinion.
Buyers beware of whom I believe to be an unscrupulous internet car dealer:

Collector Motors LLC, d.b.a. American Automobilia LLC , 7786 Blankenship, Houston Texas Ebay name: Challenged1

Lemon of a Car: Silver 1988 Ferrari 328 GTS VIN# ZFFXA20A4J0077277.

Adminstrator, please make a note of this 328 car #77277 in the 328 Registry! Hopefully no one will waste their money. My opinion this is a parts only car.

This car is/has been for sale on the following websites and also on ebay numerous times over 2006.

http://www.americanautomobilia.com/

http://www.collectormotors.com/

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=012&item=220009424228&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

My Story:

I observed this Ferrari for sale on ebay several times, it appeared to be a decent car and I decided to check it out for myself. Note: buyers be suspect of a seller using the anonymous bidder process..there maybe a reason the seller doesn't want you to know who is bidding on this car, other than privacy reasons.

I ran a carfax which did not ring any major alarms other than indicating no history prior to 1996 and in 2004 it was at an auction three times between 55,565-55,750 miles. But I said what the heck, this guys says "making this historic classic an oustanding investment that you can enjoy both now and when you get a substantial return on that investment." I trusted his ad.

I spoke to this classic car dealership on several occassions during July and August. (They are terrible at returning calls by the way) I mainly dealt with a woman named Alexis on the phone, who could never tell me anything specific about the car other than to say that their partner bought it and his wife said he couldn't keep it. (the man sympathy hook!) She was not really thrilled that I suggested that I may want a PPI by a third party. She told me most of the PPI inspectors they have dealt with were terrible and not really worth the money. She said that the ad tells everything about it and I really needed "come on down to see it" and that they will even pick me up at the Houston airport and bring me to the warehouse.

I spent the time money and effort to personally check out this "every reason to be proud of condition" "runs and drives without issues" car.

Upon my arrival I called them and Alexus said that noone was availbale to pick me up at the airport and to take a cab at their expense. To their credit the owner John did pay for my taxi cab from the airport, he wasn't happy about it but paid it nonetheless.

I was met at the business by John who grunted at us pointed the car out and said "there's the car do your thing." he proceeded to drop the few records upon upon the hood of the car in front of me in a very curt and rude manner as if I was inconvienencing them by looking at the car and the records. Hindsight says I should have caught on the wording on the ebay page his notice of "no tire kickers or test pilots."

I spent a about 30 minutes looking this collection of parts over:

The exterior was as the photo ads showed. ..it looked ok for a older car. Except upon closer inspection there were alot of nicks, chips, scratches, rusty lug nuts, rust bubbles in door panels, alot of rust inside of the passenger door, improperly mounted front airdam, badges missing from rear of car, black & red spray paint specks or something in the door wells which led me to the inside...

Ugh, the interior was atrocious! Rips, tears, nicks and serious fading in the now nearly pink decking. The whole interior, which I think used to be red and is now black, looked as though someone spray painted the leather and plastic black (alot of over spray and nicks and tears with the red leather underneath now showing thru). A poor recarpet job with thin black carpet..there were remnants of the old red carpet still hanging on the screws. No mention and/or records of this terrible thing ever being done to this "every reason to be proud of" car. The Poor thing! So I just said to myself (your 800 miles from home and nothing to do so what the hell keep looking and gathering intel to give someone else the heads up. My wife was very patient thru all this, which lasted less than an hour. The car had numerous hardware issues such as latches and releases and hydrolic pistons that malfunction.

The icing:

SEVERE external oil leakage and years of encrusted oil buildup in/under the engine compartment,and an ample amount of OIL and thick sludge inside of the radiator. I had to stop there. I called several mechanics, who said possible blown head gasket and probably at least a $10,000 +/- fix, barring any other issues. The advertisement for this car indicates "always meticulously maintained." Obviously not by them! Based upon the records I observed there was no serious work done since the major in 1998 @41k.

Now the kicker which really pissed me off.

I found John in his office and asked to take the car for a test drive. John sternly refused and said that I can't let you drive the car. I said someone can go with me. He said "I can't do that I pay alot for insurance for my employees to drive the car and I'm not going to pay alot more to let customers drive the cars. I can ride with one of his employees or not all. I said I think I had seen enough of the car and that I didn't understand that he wasn't willing to let a customer drive a car that was for sale. I asked him how he expected to sell cars if the customers can't drive them. I walked back into the warehouse and John followed.

I told John that this car had some problems and in my layman's opinion it probably had a major engine problem..he grunted and said "yeah uh huh." As I gave him the records back he became irrate and said "you can leave now." and indicated the direction of the door. I said nothing derogatory toward him. I graciously thanked him for his time, picked up my luggage and walked out to the adjoining business next door to call a cab back to the airport. John proceeded drive the car around the building revving the engine.

While in the neighboring business Seamless Solutions, I called a cab and thanked the nice receptionist for letting me use their lobby and their phonebook. In walked John, from the back, he saw me and asked if I called a cab. I said yes and tried to politely tell him that I wished he had given me the truth before I flew down from St. Louis. I never even got three words out! He rudely interrrupted me and then rudely threw me out. He told me he wanted me off the premises now! My wife and I left to wait for the cab curbside in the rain and the 88 degree weather.

I figured to myself fine! I won't lower myself to his level by making a scene or or have him spitting bloody chicklets (as much as I wanted to at this point) thats not my thing. My wife and I are degreed professionals and own our own business. I am also a full time official in the executive branch of the US Government. I refuse to let this Troll get the better of me or anyone else.

Prior to flying to Houston I had indicated to them that if the car was satisfactory, and I did buy it, that I'd like to drive it back to St. Louis. They said it was in good shape and that there was no reason why I shouldn't be able to drive it back. WOW! Thank God I didn't listen to them or I'd probably be sitting along side of some highway with an engine seized up, a now parts only car, I big hole in my wallet, and a damaged ego.

I feel that it is my duty to let everyone know what happened to me and report this so called dealership of vintage and collector cars and this particular car, so that no one is hoodwinked into a bad deal! I am also sharing my story with the Better Business Bureau.

I want to thank all of you at Ferrari-chat and God for giving me the wisdom to check this car out first. Some of you had even given me names of some places to get a PPI if the car was to my liking and I wanted to proceed. I called several of the places and had them in the wings if I were to proceed. Thanx again. I won't let this knucklehead or this experience divert my quest for an Fcar. I'm just that much wiser and lucky enough to still have all my marbles.

Dave.
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Uh oh, not another one of these threads.

 

Dave sorry to hear about your terrible experience however its good that you/we learned something valuable about this dealership and/or sales person.
I sure hope the BBB will do something about that dealership and that rude, uneducated, Usama Bin Laden, Butt H**e, John. I would like to call John and tell him I like to do him a favor, I'll give him $9,999 just to help him get rid of the car and not a penny more just to piss him off. Anyway thanks for sharing your story with us.

If you do find the right f-car please let us know about it send some pictures, good luck.

Mike

 

Thanks for sharing. I had a similar experience except it was with an individual and I was over 2500 miles from home. It was winter and cold. When I didn't buy the car he closed the garage door and I had to go to a neighbors to call a cab.

 

What a *****-----thanks for letting all of us know about your experience. You may save someone else from getting a terrible car.....

 

Someone I know was supposed to look at that car this weekend, I'll be interested to learn his opinion

 

Your experience is probably not unique. Mine wasn't quite as bad, but the dealer had no clue about Ferraris, tried to feed me total BS about Fcars in general, previous owners, and service history...

Caveat Emptor - Buyer Beware

Or, to quote Brian Crall: "if you're shopping for filet dinner, don't go to Denny's"

While I totally appreciate where Brian's remark is coming from, sometimes you have to live with the dealer/the current owner, who is marketing your dream car. In my case, this was a very nice, clean 328 GTS. All you can do in that case is do your own independent research, trust advice from FerrariChat more than anything the dealer says, and get a PPI done. You can't always spend 2 years waiting for the right car, with the right history, at the dealer of your choice.

 

Dave,
My cousin is part owner of Seamless Solutions. He is a very honest guy.
I'm going to forward this to his attention--I'd like him to know who he is involved with. He's also part-owner of the Collector Car company also.

[Removed at request of user]

Sorry you had a bad experience there...

Greg

 

Sorry to hear about your experience. Everything sounded (somewhat) typical for a garbage car being peddled by an uneducated dealer up until the part where he tossed you out in the rain. THAT went overboard, was completely uncalled for, and it probably would've sent me in a similar direction had I been in your shoes. Kudos for maintaining your composure in such a bad situation. There's probably not much you could've said or done at the time to hurt him, but now you are hurting him where it counts - in the wallet, keeping potential future customers "in the know" about his practicies and hopefully out of his showroom.

 

my thoughts exactly. . . .

 

Greg G,

The personnel from the business next door were not involved in any way with this fiasco. I mentioned them because they, allowed me to use their lobby for a while. It appeared to me that Collector Motors rented warehouse space in the rear of your cousin's business. The few front line employees gave me the "aire" that that they tolerated this other business and/or John. Seamless was professional and was probably wondering what the hell that was all about. One person who worked there was a guy who drove a Mercedes. He just happened to see John throw me off the property. He had to wonder what the hell was going on and why John was being such a jerk to a polite man and his wife standing in the lobby with luggage. I'd be interested to know what John told him.

I'm estatic to know that this may be forwarded and eventually back to John. He needs to know you can't treat customers like crap and/or conduct questionable business practices. Especially when you have no idea with whom your dealing and/or what they do for a living. Trust me, this post was just my attempt to quickly warn others and not my main course of action, that is still to come.

If your cousin has any concerns please have him contact me. I'd be concerned for him if he is involved with these "slimy" people in any business dealings. He may want to wash his hands of John so as not to tarnish his reputation.

Dave

 

Dave,
Collector Motors and Seamless Solutions are both owned by Chuck Hansen.
He owns the building you were in. My cousin bought a very small percentage of both businesses. Seamless is a copier dealership.

I'm not sure who John is, but my cousin will know. I'll speak to him personally about this. He was going to drive the 328 in question for a few days, just for fun. After hearing about its condition, I'm glad he didn't!
He may have been stranded!!

Again, very sorry for your troubles...

Greg

 

I don't know if this qualifies because you didn't actually buy anything, but maybe you can report them to the Better Business Bureau; SOMETHING needs to be done to screw this guy. Stories like this infuriate me to no end. Especially because it of how senseless it is: you'd think that a car salesman would at least be personable, and theorectically should have been overcompensating like crazy because of the shizzy condition of the car (he should have been shmoozing the hell out of you!!). Ironically, this guy's utter incompetence as a salesman (or con artist) possibily saved you from a bad purchase (good salespeople CAN sell icecubes to Eskimos!). Let's face it, when we decide to buy a Ferrari, we WANT to buy! This guy's behavior is just inexplicably wrong! To treat someone like this who FLEW IN FROM OUT OF TOWN WITH HIS WIFE is just amazing!

Years ago I flew from Los Angeles to some god-forsaken 20-degree-below northern city to look at a Pantera that was not even close to the want ad description and it seemed so nuts: what did the guy expect me to do? Buy it?! Crazy! At least he was nice and picked me up from the airport! But a frustrating - and costly - waste of time.

Oh well, look at it this way, at least you have a wife who's cool enough to fly with you to look a car toy!! Cheers to that!

 

Dave,

I'm sorry to hear about your experience. The car sure looks nice from the pictures! In shopping for my Mondial I have driven thousands of miles to look at cars that looked great on paper and on the pictures. You drive up on the dealer lot and you can't believe that that was the same car you were looking at on the web. Dings, dents, paint and bodywork. A dealer would tell me over the phone: "yes, we 've got all the records". Now all he can show me is one piece of paper showing some belt changes that were done ten years ago. Unfortunately, that was before I knew of FerrariChat's existence. Now I would simply find out if any local F'chatter can take a look at the car before I spend my money on expensive airfares. FerrariChat is amazing and I would not know what to do without it.

Good luck, I'm sure the right car will come along for you.

 

Are you that dense? The original poster takes the time to tell us his story and does it in a thoughtful, thorough manner and you think this is a bad thing?

Forums like these are a good thing--they keep behavior like this in check. Think about that the next time you roll your eyes.

 

Was kind of thinking the same... if the OP steers a few people away from a bad car and bad dealer experience, he's saving someone else a wasted trip.

With such a bad experience from the start I don't think I'd spend the time to go look at the car. Also, not sure God has an active hand in used Ferrari purchases, but then again there are parts of the scriptures that I haven't got to yet.

 

Sorry, but the bottom line is this guy walked into MEL'S DINER, and asked the greasy dirtbag behind the counter to cook him a filet mignon.

What did he expect?

 

How the hell was he was supposed to know it was "Mel's Diner" before he got there? So you're that smart (and psychic)? What an ass!

 

Dave---put his email address out here---I'll send my spam boys on it---he will have to change emails 12 times before getting a decent one......

 

ROFLMAO!!!

 

Go ahead and flame away, but at least READ the e-bay ad and the original post before you act like this guy was hoodwinked by Ferrari of Lost Gatos. . .

For example:

Any warning bells yet?

Sounds like a winner to me!

What exactly was Carriage "trusting" here? The smoke and mirrors the seller was obviously sending out to hide the real condition of the car? And when Carriage says "what the heck", does that mean he was expecting the perfect car? Clearly he wasn't. Sounds more like he was EXPECTING the dog that he found. Was it all that surprising?

After this interaction, what exactly was Carriage expecting ? When a seller is clearly evasive on the phone, doesn't want you to get a PPI, and then says "come down and see it for yourself", it's pretty obvious they're covering their a##s and a bad car, no?? And what exactly does the e-bay ad say besides "WOW, it's a ferrari and we got some records on it . . ." Carriage even says it himself:

"runs and drives without issues"?? C'mon! The seller is saying (pretty clearly) that he started the car, drove it around the block, it didn't start a fire, and there you have it. Anybody disagree?

And you're going to tell me and everybody else on this website that Carriage was still a serious buyer at that point??

Why did Carriage rely on the bimbo at the front desk instead of speaking with "John" (or anybody with actual knowledge of the car) before flying out?

And why did he ask for a test drive AFTER determining that he was looking at a complete dog?? What a way to get into a pissing match with an obvious dirtbag who didn't want buyers "poking around" the car in the first place. Did he ask whether he could test drive the car BEFORE flying out to see it? Isn't this a real issue for ferrari buyers/sellers? Anybody want to justify this one?

Sorry, but "Alexis" is that scruffy waitress who tries to wipe grease off your water glass after putting it on the table in front of you. When you see that happen, ORDER AT YOUR OWN RISK. . .

 

I agree to some extent, but an 18 year old ferrari with 50k isnt a filet. I wasn't asking for prime rib just a nice tender ribeye as listed on the menu. What I was served was rotten ecoli infested horse meat! It would have been worse had this guy covered it in marinade, but I dont think he was all that bright and really gave a sh__!

Bottom line is John, an alledged dealer, is out to sell cars online to the unsuspecting people who trust what they read. Sorry we can't all be as all knowing as you teterman! I'm so sure the first Ferrari you bought and layed out $40-50k was a just a walk in the park! We should all be that lucky! It would be different if I had unlimited funds but I don't!

BTW, they did over the phone offer me to drive it but I had to come down there to do so! So its either buy a plane ticket to go look or try to convince the dealer to allow the car to dissappear for a day for a PPI by a third party. the cost was about the same. I choose to look see first and I happen to know a little about cars and woud have gotten a PPI if the car looked good. So I was willing to shell out the dough to buy a decent steak.

But If your a legit dealer and you know the car has a blown head gasket (obvious) and it will take about 10 grand to fix you absolutely need to disclose this, not hide it!!!!!!
I would never sell you a horse with a founder problem or chronic laminitis. First of all its unscrupulous and second it would be illegal to represent it as otherwise and then fail to disclose it! Especially over the internet ..its called fraud! Wire fraud to be exact.

And you cant tell me that when you look at buying a used car you just get the keys and jump right in with out looking at it first. Nor would I buy it with out driving it.

Thanks for your input.

 

Dave,

From a new ferrari owner and having spent considerable time and expense seeking out a well sorted car.

As we all hate to miss out on a possible good deal...they do happen sometimes, it's very much appreciated to have any additional information available before time/$$$/effort are spent.

Thank you very much.

 

I've had a few experiences like yours and also got the "rolling eyes" from the likes of teterman at this site. But let me thank you on the behalf of the rest of us who may not have the knowledge, time and/or contacts to avert a disastrous experience such as yours. Funny thing is I was thinking maybe this car wasn't selling because it was an "off color" and almost went out to Texas to have a look. Since I haven't been able to find the car I'm looking for (been called a tire kicker for that) maybe a recolor might have worked but, from info gathered at FChat, I learned that wasn't a good move so I passed.

Thanks again

 

Dave

Thanks for posting this experiance, I think it helps everyone with a good heads up about perhaps an "other than honest dealer." Though one of "these type threads" pop up from time to time, I think its a good thing. The t-man was correct in that there were a few (or should have been) some red flags going up with some of the early statements from the dealer before you went to see the car, but the fact that you were willing to go see the car anyway was your call,(not saying it was a bad, just yours to make) least you had those red flags in the back of your mind to help you keep things in perspective, and after seeing the car in person + red flags + poor treatment = NO SALE. And you gained some personal knowledge and gave us all a heads up too! Thanks! As for the t-man, according to his profile, he own's NO Ferrari's. And I a'm supprised that a consultant (ernie) would make such a statement.

Cheers!

DT