308 "second gear" question

Depends on the gear oil in the gear box. Royal purple will make it shift much better in all temps. I need to see an exploded pic of a gearbox because I cant remember which direction the 2nd gear shaft slides to grab 2nd gear. If and I mean "if" the myth is correct, 2nd gear shaft enters a blind hole and tries to compress fluid (gear oil) preventing 2nd from engaging until the fluid is thin enough to bleed past the shaft once warmed up. My boxer is the same. During the rebuild of my 308 gearbox I couldnt find this blind hole other than for reverse. If this blind hole exists then you can drill a relief hole in the end to allow a passage for oil to escape. My 308 shifts like butter hot or cold after replacing 1st through 3rd syncro rings. Only a moron would tell you to use 2nd only when necessary. These cars arent fragile and the worst you are doing is compressing a liquid (or trying to) if you insist on grabbing 2nd in the cold. The first 3 syncros are interchangable so its not a matter of a poorly designed 2nd gear component other than maybe the blind hole.

 

My 308 hates 2nd gear until thoroughly warmed up... I think the prior post describes the technical aspect of why this occurs...

 

I have to coax it a wee bit when cold, so I just use third until its sufficiently warmed up

 

When still cold my '76 goes right into second without forcing it. In fact at 4000 rpms i press the clutch completely to the floor and the shifter actually feels like it puts itself into gear.

 

Yup - I was told that when I bought my car, so I go straight from 1st to 3rd for the first few miles.
I have changed from 1st to 2nd when the car was cold and never had any difficulty but it's these little quirks that make us love these cars so much

 

Everything about my '79 308GTB works better and smoother when warm but second gear is NO PROBLEM at all, even when dead cold. I think this is one of those things that is unique to the gearbox in question. And while the problem is observed in more than a few cars, it is not universally a problem.

'79 308GTB

 

I think part of the grounds for the urban myth is that of course 1-2 shift is used all the time for in town driving, so the second gear synchro tends to see the most wear...if left unattended it will go out first.

If all synchros are good then the blame falls to the hydrolockup train of thought.

I use Royal Purple thru out my car...good stuff! They make a water wetter type coolant treatment as well!

 

RedLine MT-90 is the stuff. I had exactly the same issue with my Mondial 8 last year, I absolutely couldn't get 2nd until the oil was at normal working temp. MT-90 been in the box for ~7mths and still perfect.

Mike

 

76 308 GTB - only problem is down shifting into second - on the way up, hot or cold, no problem.

 

Newman,

Ask and thou shalt receive!

You're right. The only two blind holes are 1st and reverse.

See the first two pictures.

The mod to drill the hole, would only work for (I think) first gear. The 2nd/3rd gear shaft does not go into a blind hole in the middle. The 2nd/3rd and 4th/5th shafts go into holes in the middle wall of the gearbox, and the holes go all the way through the wall. So there is no blind hole.


3rd and 4th pic is where the mod (drilled relief hole) is supposed to be made
5th pic is the center wall in the gearbox, showing the holes the other two shafts slide into


The 6th and 7th pictures show the relief afforded by the existing curvature of the the gearbox housing. This demonstrates that there is no restriction of the flow of fluid when shifting into (I think it would be) 4th and 5th gears. 3rd and 4th slide the other direction (but I may have that backwards) and as shown, there is no restriction or blind hole on the center wall of the gearbox.

And the last two pictures show both halves of the gearbox with everything "in-place", which is what I believe you were asking for.

Hope you find this useful!
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Thank you David, when I replaced my syncros I looked for this blind hole as well and came to the conclusion it was on the 1st/reverse shaft as well but was basically told I was a yoyo by others here that insisted 2nd goes into a blind hole. So, if your second gear sucks try a different more modern oil or replace the syncros if the problem still exists. This isnt to say all gearboxes are the same inside, the GTSi's have an oil pump whereas my carbed car doesn't. They made many running changes so this may account for the blind hole that may exist in some and not others.

Thanks again.

P.

 

JWise's & I were the 1st to report & post pix showing that the blind hole wasn't for the 2nd-3rd gear shaft in the JWise timing service thread.

John's dad was with us & spotted it.

Altho, quite a few people have reported that drilling the relief hole did improve the shift into 2nd.

It's a big stretch, but the only way that that blind hole could possibly be involved into the shift into 2nd would be if oil in the blind hole was providing resistance to moving the R-1st shaft out of 1st fully into neutral.

 

When I bought my 1979 308 GTB 3 years ago it would only go into 2nd gear if I shifted at near idle (walk it off the line in 1st and quick shift 2nd). Downshifting was out of the question. A local independent and I replaced 2nd/3rd syncro as well as all of the bearings in the trans. No modifications were done. No gears required replacement. I also switched to Royal Purple gear oil. It now shifts up and down at any temperature with no issues at all. I am careful to match RPM especially while downshifting (toe/heal) and only downshift into 2nd when necessary.

The 2nd/3rd syncro friction surfaces were worn. I suspected that they see a lot of wear during downshifting due to the mass that they must get rotating in this trans.

By the way…the work was done with the engine and trans still in the car. I am not sure I would do this again.

 

I can't imagine trying to do it "in the car". Ha! Wow, I mean, there is so little room to maneuver anyway.

Pulling the engine is a PITA. But for all of the other advantages, of being able to easily check everything else out; It seems worth the effort IMHO.

 

I agree with Neuman. Mine 2nd shifted hard cold until my last major when the oil was changed. Now it's like any other gear, any temperature.

 

Maybe that's why my 308 has always been pretty smooth when cold and just fine when hot. The oil has been changed regularily.

 

neWman

 

For the older cars, the document "ServiceBulletins-1980.pdf" page 30, shows an upgrade to improve shifting in 2-nd gear.
Alessandro.

 

Bang on him enough, and we can put a "P" in front of your mis-spelled name! LOL!!!!

j/k of course...

 

Oh isn't that just grand! I'm a-pawl'd! More new parts to buy....

Gawd, this is costing a fortune!

Oh well... At least it'll be right when I'm done.

Thank you for the reference though Alemala. Guess I'd better check though all of those before I start the re-assembly. Ugh....