Pininfarina or Ferrari -- blame for recent F-car styling woes

I just launched my new automotive blog, The Four Wheel Drift, this week. I just couldn't wait to dive into a topic very important to Ferrari owners and enthusiasts -- the styling of current F-car production models and who is to "blame" (if there is someone to blame.) So I just posted a new entry today of interest to Fchatters:

I had the opportunity of sitting down ten days ago with Paolo Garella -- the head of the group at Pininfarina that developed Jim's beautiful P4/5, and I posed the question of current car styling issues to him.

So take a read:

Hopefully it will spark some interest and debate... Your comments here and on the blog are encouraged!

Cheers,
Sam

 

Link does not work for me.

 

Link works fine for me.

 

Thanks!

 

Unfortunately here lies the problem...they don't have the creative freedom they once did. Lots of large companies fall victim to this and Ferrari is no different.

 

"Ferrari has so many people involved with styling now – brand managers, executives, engineers…that by the time Pininfarina’s engineers and stylists are allowed to begin, their hands are essentially tied behind their backs."

Yea, probably too many chiefs. I think the only somewhat bland design is the 612. Otherwise, the other models are quite appealing. Isn't the market the true test anyway? There is no shortage of buyers lusting for today’s F models and that's because of their overall appeal etc.

Besides, it's easy to take a shot at design direction if you're looking to stir up a little controversy and get some press

 

Please delete this self serving thread.

 

Jim,
I think it goes without saying that your car proves that Pininfarina is capable of producing not only beautiful cars, but also technically amazing ones. Your work with Pininfarina is a breath of fresh air that will hopefully be a wake-up call to Ferrari (as well as other automakers) that anything is possible, and that all it takes to get out of a rut is for the automaker to get out of the way and let a little imagination and a great team of dedicated folks do what they do best.

I told Paolo that your car would "make jaws hit the floor" when I first saw the photos, and that people would be fighting to be the next one in line for the special projects team.

So thanks for giving enthusiasts and media (and those like me who fall into both camps) such a wonderful car to oohh and ahhh over, as well as discuss the long-term importance of.
Sam

 

I'm going to hold off commenting for a bit but I will say that if you know the truth it is your obligation to shout it from the rooftops as the good book says...

 

Automobile Magazine was the first to openly call for Ferrari to dump Pininfarina, so that's where this all comes from. I'm sorry if this seemed self serving, but I haven't even really fully-launched my blog yet to my normal readers...I was trying to see if Fchatters thought the content was crazy, good, bad, ugly etc...


As for the comment of "the market decides," yes and no. There were thousands of Mondials and 308GT4s sold, as well as 400is etc...and these are generally disliked by enthusiasts and the collector market. I'm primarily a collector car journalist, so I like to dig deeper than just the initial sales of a car. I wonder how well the 612 will age?

On a personal note, I happen to thing the 550 was very pretty, but all I kept hearing about was that it was too subtle for such an expensive supercar. Certainly everyone has opinions.

But I think this is an interesting topic -- one that is specifically top of mind at Pininfarina.

And again, I'm sorry if people thought this was self serving....I actually just wanted to discuss the issue.

 

Personally I can't stand the newer Ferrari's starting with the F430. But while the 612 to me ranks as one of the most boring looking Ferrari's ever, the 599 I saw in Monterey, I couldn't tell if I was looking at a Ferrari or the newest Corvette.

Pininfarina and Ferrari go hand in hand - it's the 'brand/marketing' managers who screw things up. If you don't know your customer base, and need market research and a crap load of useless focus groups, you're already going to lose.

 

I have to put the blame on Pinafarina. The car styling has been going downhill since the 355, and when given a clean-sheet mandate the best they could come up with was a retro-mobile. When the 308 came out, it was a cutting-edge design. Likewise the Boxer, TR and 348. Now? Another windtunner special that literally could be anyone's car if the badges were removed.

 

I hope you mean that it is my responsibility to let people know that Pininfarina is actually trying their best, and are capable of so much (if Ferrari would just let them.)

One of the reasons I started a blog (after so long being against the idea, despite requests from my column's usual readers and my fellow writers) was that too many automotive press members spend too much time simply reprinting press releases, hoping not to offend anyone -- which might jeopardize their freebies and weekly car swaps.

Since my regular column runs in newspapers, I can't write anything that might possibly make any advertiser uncomfortable. Hence the blog, which allows me to actually communicate the news I get daily, the inside scoop I tend to hear from time to time, and even gossip -- although I'll only print something if I know it to be true.

I might be totally on the wrong course, but I'm trying to essentially bring the honesty of boards like Fchat to those who don't enter these types of sites.

If I scream from the mountain tops when companies are doing things well, versus doing things not so well, I'm hoping it eventually has an effect. In this case, that the people at Pininfarina are fantastic, and that Ferrari is still great, but are getting in their own way.

If I'm being too crazy (or self serving,) please let me know. I'm not the typical know-it-all press guy -- I like feedback -- good and bad.

 

That's what I mean and I agree totally. I think Ted West's article in Car and Driver was a breath of fresh air and reminded me of Road and Track and Car and Driver back in the day when those magazines weren't afraid to say what they really felt; Good, Bad, and or Ugly.

 

The new cars don't look sufficiently exotic or distinct enough.

Their performance, while OK, is no longer world class.

For the cost of a new Ferrari, I could have seven Subaru WRX STi's: one for each day of the week.

Too bad, a Ferrari used to be worth lusting after, something to make one feel a bit "special."

Now the only thing "special" about the car is the cost to buy and service it.

 

Harsh thread..
I agree to a point that the 430 has taken a slight turn to the left,but the 360 is/was an amazing looking car.And I own a Lambo!

 

I do not think anyone is to blame. Appreciating the design of any car is rather subjective, can't please everyone. I like the F430 and the 599 enough to consider them for purchase. I understand the thought behind the Enzo, and I find the P4/5 to be absolutely beautiful, yet not the same car.

Pininfarina delivered what their customer wanted, their incredible talent is obvious. Whether it be James or Luca, the buck stopped on their desks.

 

With today's designs the manufacturers have a lot to accomplish. Safety restrictions, customer wants, practicality, history, cost restrictions, etc. Given all of this I think that F's line up is a terrific balance and still invokes a lot of passion. Of course this is subjective, but I don't think that there really is anything better out there. The 599 for example takes all of the elements required and assembles it into a beautiful automobile.

Another thing that I've noticed is that some of the harshest critics of newer F designs are people not in a position to purchase them anyway.

 

I think new Ferraris look great with the exception of the 612. 430s & 360s in person are stunning.

 

I completely agree. This thread is totaly un-necessary. If 360's and 430's were not attractive automobiles, then they would not sell to the extent that they have. Look what people are willing to pay for these cars. In my opinion, the 360 is a work of art. Looks are subjective....therefore, you will find as many folks who like the looks of the later model F-cars as don't.

 

Most of the automotive press and "enthusiasts" are not displeased with the 360 and 430 -- quite the contrary, as most opinions are tha the 360 and 430 are extremely attractive and fantastic performers. I personally happen to love the 360 and 430, not to mention the 550 and 456.

Someone previously mentioned that the biggest critics of the newer Ferraris are those who can't afford them. That might be true, but I personally have heard from a fair number of Ferrari owners (and those who can afford the newest and greatest every year,) and they have expressed displeasure mostly with the 612, and I've heard some grumblings over the 599 GTB.

As a 328 GTS owner, I've always been a Ferrari fan and Pininfarina addict. I think that Automobile Magazine and the other outlets that have called for Pininfarina's head are barking up the wrong tree.

And again, the cars can sell well now, but I'd be interested to see how the 612 and 599 are treated on the collector market. Will they be 365 GTB/4 or GTC/4? 500 Mondial or Mondial 8? Enthusiasts have not been equally kind to all Ferraris over the years.

 

I disagree. Pinfarinna created a work of art with the 360.

However, for the new crop of 430, 599, 612, I believe Pinfarinna has moved alway from the cutting edge unique "Ferrari" styling to a more generic designs.

430- car just does not flow naturally like the 360, everything just looks add on (rear tailight treatment) or bland (front bumper intakes)

612- too massive

599- what the next generation supra or mitsubishi would look like, remove the badges and it is a very genric design, unlike the 550 which clearly made a statement as a ferrari.

I would more likely purchase a used 456 or 550 over any of the newer ferraris.

 

I went to your blog and I assume the car in the forground is the p4/5. This whole debate about quality of design is subjective. For example I don't really like the p4/5. It simply looks like a race car and that's ok but personally I don't find "race cars" per se the ultimate in automotive art. Just so you know where my tastes lie I consider the 246 gt pretty much the ultimate in automotive art.

One pet peeve of mine are designs that rely on glass to make a roof line...particularily one with compound curves..always looks like a compromise to me.

I think that if there is a malaise about recent f-car designs my guess is it is because they are looking more generic than they have in the past. I think this is a product of two things...the rest of the world catching up so to speak and the fact that wind tunnels are taking over the design of these kinds of cars. As evidence of this look no further than the front of any f-car from the 348 on. Apparently the most imaginative front end treatment available is a 90 degree air dam with holes cut out of varying shapes and sizes...cheesy, cheesy, cheesy...Oh and surprise, they look remarkably similar to the air dam on say an Nissan 350 or (insert any other late model Japanese sports car here)...go figure.

Don't get me wrong I still like the f-cars better that any other out there...I just wish they'd pay a little more attention to character and less to wind tunnel dictates. I personally feel that the move from the 348/355 styling to the 360/430 styling is a step in the right direction....still don't like those air dams though.

 

I think their new cars are gorgeous. The 612 isn't the most appealing, but neither was the 456 nor the 412.

Perhaps it's an age thing. . . hmmm

 

I'm amazed (amused?) by all the people who bash the F430 and praise the 360. Having seen both in person, they seem about as close to one another in appearance as the 308 is to the 328, and a casual onlooker probably couldn't spot the differences.

Also, I think we forget some of the less-recognized designs mixed in with some of the '80s and earlier classics. The 400 and Mondial aren't unattractive, but they're not in the all-time automotive lust hall of fame. We selectively remember the Testarossas, F40s, 308s, etc.

I don't love the new 599GTB, but compared to the 400 it's pure sex on wheels.