456M GTA Owners/Drivers Report (very long) w/extended comments on auto-transmission | FerrariChat

456M GTA Owners/Drivers Report (very long) w/extended comments on auto-transmission

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by Diablo456, Aug 29, 2006.

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  1. Diablo456

    Diablo456 Karting

    Jul 27, 2006
    145
    We’ve had the 2000 456M GTA (Black/tan) for a few weeks now, and put almost 1000 miles on the clock. Thought I’d provide a report on the car, especially the performance of the automatic transmission; an item for which I’ve found almost nothing on-line in terms of ownership/driver’s reports.

    It’s hard to start a report by stating what other cars you’ve owned/driven because I think this comes across as crass and a bit unfriendly. So forgive this bit of background; it may help put my comments into perspective. We’ve owned a moderate number of other exotics, and enjoyed all of them. I sold a Diablo 6.0 just prior to purchasing the 456; I’ve also owned a 94 Diablo VT and an 85 Countach 5000s. My prior Ferrari experience has been with a couple of the 308/328 series, and a 88.5 Testarossa. I’ve also driven the 355, 360 and 550. Round this out with a couple of 928s, 2 NSX, and many Lexus (SC400, SC430, GS400 (my current daily driver), etc.).

    I was very apprehensive about purchasing a 456 with automatic. All the usual reasons. However, the selection of automatics is pretty good right now, and the price reflects a real value for a modern, V12 Ferrari (we paid $80k for a nice example, full records, clean PPI, 21,000 miles). I prefer “driven” cars to garage queens. In my experience (see above), the number of problems on exotics is inversely related to the mileage. More miles is almost always a cleaner, less-trouble-prone experience. Anyway, every previous exotic I’ve owned has a manual and I was ready to give an automatic a try.

    So, for starters, the V12 in the 456 is a gem. Lambo V12s are a study in advanced check-engine light diagnosis; find a Diablo with no check-engine lights and you’ll likely find they were disconnected - seriously. The Testarossa 12 was nothing but trouble with the archaic K-jetronic (mine burned up in a cat fire like many others), and even the Ferrari V8s needed constant tuning and attention. The 456 engine with the Motronic 5.2 is just a gem. Starts smoothly, idles at a rock-solid 1000 rpm cold and 800 rpm warm, and makes prodigious torque and power at any rpm. This alone is a joy compared to my prior exotic experience. As a bonus, the 456 V12 is very much un-stressed in this application, a feature for longevity. This is born out by the complete lack of engine-related problems (including the dreaded CELs) for the 456 on the message boards over the last decade.

    Of course, this great powertrain would mean nothing if you can’t get the power where it needs to go. And I have to say, I was uber-apprehensive about the auto-box. First thing I noticed was the short first gear and relatively long second. There’s a large rpm drop when the box shifts. Starts are pleasantly fast; just hold throttle, and the car revs quickly to about 6000 rpm before shifting to second at about 2500. The 1 / 2 shift is fairly smooth, smoother (strangely) under harder acceleration. With moderate throttle, the car has a slight lurch. 3rd gear is closer in ratio to 2nd, and 4th gear is pretty long. The 2/3 upshift is probably the least-smooth; while 3/4 if very nice, almost Lexus-like in matching revs and smoothness. In fact, the electronics do a very nice job in ensuring a good rev-match on shifts. The box is smooth – not as smooth as the very-best autos (I’d rate the Lexus GS-series as the best automatics I’ve driven), but a tad smoother than either the BMW or Mercedes sedans I’ve driven.

    The automatic transmission logic is pretty good but not perfect. I’d say it found the right gear about 85% of the time when asked to shift. Going uphill or under-load, it readily downshifted for power. The only disappointment was cruising at 75-85mph in 4th, and giving full throttle to pass on level ground. Here, the transmission did not shift unless you really gave it full throttle very-quickly. Third gear is a good passing gear, and manual-shifts are easy to accomplish. Actually, I found myself manually selecting gears quite frequently (for the record, I live at high-altitude with many hills – we especially use downshifts for engine braking). At any reasonable speed (<100), you can downshift to third for passing/power. Below about 60, a downshift to second is also possible. Once the engine gets above about 3500 rpm, it’s got lots of passing torque, above 5000 rpm, the V12 is a true monster, with all the power you’d need. My only complaint is the relatively long spacing between 1 / 2 and 3 / 4. Of course, a 5th gear would be great, but you take what you get with the GTA…

    All in all, I’m very pleased with the automatic. It’s smooth, has plenty of power, and provides more than enough opportunity for driver selection/input as required. There’s a few downsides, the most significant of which is *noise*. Overall, the 456 is a phenomenally-quite car – almost Lexus-like quiet. At 85 mph in 4th, this car is almost a cocoon. Perhaps this amplifies the noise from 2nd and 3rd gear. Downshift to 3rd, and the shift is smooth (little kickback/lurching), but it is louder than you’re expecting. Ditto for second (but not quite as bad).

    In fact, the Lexus-comparison in this car continues to many other attributes (and that’s a very good thing for us, we wanted a GT/touring car that was easy to drive long distance). The steering is fabulous. Not as crisp as the Diablo 6.0 or NSX’ steering, but miles ahead of the earlier Ferrari’s and the Lexus/Mercedes. Even a touch more responsive than the 5-series BMWs. The power steering isn’t obtrusive at highway speed, and it’s got just the right amount of feel for parking/low speed. The car has no tendency to hunt/till on the highway.

    In fact, the one thing I find the Italian exotics do better than any other cars on the road is provide precise steering with good feedback but no bump-steer or tilling. Truly a pleasure to drive if you’ve not experienced this level of refinement. Handling isn’t quite as crisp as the 360 or Diablo, but it’s certainly more responsive than the Japanese coupes or German examples I’ve driven. In fact, I think Ferrari just about nailed the comfort/performance equation on the 456. The “sport” setting does give a bit firmer ride, but nothing like the “sport” settings on the Diablo, which truly turn the Lambo’s into racer-boy track day beasts. Regular shock/suspension settings are just right for the 456, and I haven’t really used the sport setting, even for enthusiastic mountain runs. ABS on the 456 is smooth and unobstrusive. I haven’t turned ASR off yet to see what happens in controlled conditions. Maybe the next Porsche club track day…

    I was worried about the window seals on the 456; no need. Our windows are tight, work perfectly, and have absolutely no wind-noise even well into triple digits. The seats are marvelous, with enough adjustment to find just the right position. Other potential trouble-spots (delaminating rear window) weren’t present and the radiator on my car has been fixed in the service records, taking care of the last-remaining concern.

    What’s not to like? A few nits. Biggest among these is the *terrible*, dissolving rubber-coating on a variety of interior bits. Why Toyota can make lasting interiors while Ferrari puts dissolving-goo in a quarter-million-dollar exotic is just infuriating. I replaced the ashtray cover, and now only the switches still have a bit of stickiness to them (well, the door handles are a bit gooey as well…). Thankfully, the 456 doesn’t have as much of these bits as the 355; a car that will literally dissolve if left in hot, humid conditions. I mentioned the noise in 2nd (and especially) 3rd gear, but I think this problem is amplified by the otherwise marvelous NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) reduction of the 456. Come to think of it, Ferrari released this car in 1992, and I would guess the NSX was the target in this area (released in 1990). The 456 is truly up to the NSX standard of ease and functionality (a very good thing) with the addition of the incredible V12 powerplant. The interior is great and tasteful, with good-quality leather on literally every surface except the floor. No wrinkling/fading in our car, thank you previous owners for attending to this and everything else…

    Another nit: the leather-covered rear deck reflects in the window. The tan leather gives a brown-hue to the view out the back. Speaking of which, the view from the 456 is fabulous, easy to see around the car with minimal blind spots – far, far better than any of the Lambos and one area where the 456 is superior to the 550. My final negative is the position of the dash wrt to the steering wheel. It’s very hard to get both a comfortable driving position for the wheel (read: low) and also clearly see the dash, especially the warning lights. I found a compromise position, but it’s not ideal.

    In conclusion, the 456 is a pleasantly-livable, refined Ferrari. The first Italian exotic I’ve owned that could be readily driven daily. Nearly all the bonuses of an exotic with very little compromise. I was apprehensive about the automatic, but no longer. A fine gearbox, that detracts little from the Ferrari experience. I am fortunate to have found a great, full-record clean example. At $80K for a modern, Italian V12 exotic, this has to be considered *the* deal among late-model Ferraris.
     
    paulchua likes this.
  2. Bart

    Bart Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
    1,522
    Orange County, Calif
    Full Name:
    Bart
    V-12s are nice.

    :)

    12 cylinders or walk

    ps: I know someone with over 125,000 miles on it.
     
  3. Lemke

    Lemke F1 Rookie

    Oct 27, 2004
    4,644
    Vancouver, WA
    Full Name:
    Daniel
    Great write up. Interesting how you compare the 456 to a NSX in terms of quality.
     
  4. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
    7,645
    Northern California
    Full Name:
    Greg Calo
    Fabulous write-up and stimulates the interest further for a 456. What's your color scheme? I don't think I got that unless I missed something.

    The transmission issue concerns me a bit, and Rifledriver's comments are quite telling especially since he recently had a 456 with a major trasmission issue.

    I do not intend to give up my 360, but I might sell my beautiful, hardly-driven CL500 for a 456 even if that's a crazy move!
     
  5. Bart

    Bart Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
    1,522
    Orange County, Calif
    Full Name:
    Bart
    Sell the piece of junk.
    :)
     
  6. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
    7,645
    Northern California
    Full Name:
    Greg Calo
    Bart,

    Tell me how you really feel!
     
  7. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 6, 2003
    26,015
    Las Vegas, NV
    Full Name:
    Ryan Alexander
    Thanks for the great write up!

    I've heard of serious things going wrong on non-M 456 GTA transmissions which can be $$$. Hopefully the M resolved many of those.

    Greg - it says black/tan.

    Was this the one at Boston Sports Car?
     
  8. Diablo456

    Diablo456 Karting

    Jul 27, 2006
    145
    #8 Diablo456, Aug 30, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Car was in Florida originally (fortunately, very well maintained and rust and corrosion free).

    Regarding the NSX comment, I do apoligize, I should have been more clear. I intended to say that the refinement and ease of use were comparable to the Lexus/NSX. Not the quality. As good as the 456 is - and it's the best quality Italian exotic I've owned - it's not on-par quality wise with the Japanese examples.

    Here's a picture or two, including a through-the-trunk shot of the automatic (haven't seen too-many of this view online).
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    jcbam likes this.
  9. sjvalin

    sjvalin Formula Junior

    Aug 31, 2004
    724
    Nevada County, CA
    Full Name:
    Steve Valin
    Wow! That is a beautiful car! i haven't seen many in black. Thanks for the write-up.

    -steve
     
  10. onyx2002

    onyx2002 Karting

    Jun 3, 2006
    78
    Scenic Maricopa, AZ
    Full Name:
    Eric
    Thanks for the great details. Please keep us updated on any problems or aftermarket work you may do. She is absolutely beautiful.
     
  11. Diablo456

    Diablo456 Karting

    Jul 27, 2006
    145
    #11 Diablo456, Aug 30, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    jcbam likes this.
  12. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran

    Aug 4, 2006
    8,329
    Palos Verdes
    Full Name:
    Vince V
    That was probably the best practical review I've ever seen on the car. Wonderfully written. My personally take is for the 6-speed only because I find that if I am not shifting I tend to lose attention or fall asleep. I was trying to check out the A/C panel for the dreaded warpage. You know, your car would look awesome with some Speedlines on it. :)
     
  13. rmfurzeland

    rmfurzeland Formula Junior

    Jan 7, 2005
    559
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Ron Furzeland
    Great summary, thanks for taking the time to write it up.
    I was interested in the throught the trunk shot, so you can remove the trunk floor? Anyone know if you can do this with a 550 too? Would make fillling the tranny easier.
    Regards,
    Ron
     
  14. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
    7,645
    Northern California
    Full Name:
    Greg Calo
    Diablo456,

    That car is really very beautiful and many thanks for all the info.

    It's encouraging more as I look at yours.

    How many miles on it?

    I think I remember seeing that on e-Bay for a while?

    Very nice indeed.
     
  15. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,126
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall


    That is true. I have a client with those on his 456 and it looks great.
     
  16. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,126
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
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    Brian Crall

    No you cannot. It is not needed. Filling a 550 trans is easy from the bottom even without removal of the tray below it.

    It is required on a 456A for a variety of reasons having to do with the trans.
     
  17. Lemke

    Lemke F1 Rookie

    Oct 27, 2004
    4,644
    Vancouver, WA
    Full Name:
    Daniel
    The 456 looks beautiful in black. Nice choice.
     
  18. teterman2004

    teterman2004 Formula Junior

    Jan 15, 2005
    272
    Eielson, Alaska
    Full Name:
    BriBud
    Outstanding write-up! Besides being more practical than their two-seater siblings, most of the V-12 2+2s have their own understated beauty that adds to the mystique of the brand. . .

    Looks great in Black, BTW
     
  19. PeterS

    PeterS Five Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 24, 2003
    52,238
    Goodyear, AZ
    Full Name:
    PeterS
    I'm starting to sport some wood over this model. I looked at one for the first time at Bobileff's shop in San Diego last April when I purchased my 348. I like the overall looks, the room in the rear seating area for groceries, etc. and that this car (IMO) does not 'reak' "HEY! I'M AN EXPESIVE EXOTIC". It's sexy in it's own right.
     
  20. chaa

    chaa F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2003
    5,058
    I did nearly 3000 miles in 7 days in a GTA last month and not once did it complain or cause problems;)
     
  21. asianbond

    asianbond Formula 3

    Nov 8, 2003
    1,276
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Beautiful car and great write up.

    I'm also in market for black 456. Refreshing to find true ferrari loyalist just enjoying the car and not listening to naysayers.
     
  22. vlamgat

    vlamgat Formula Junior

    Jan 9, 2004
    776
    I echo all the points made by Diablo456 but would also add thiese. The gearbox design is unusual inasmuch as it has a very low stall speed. Meaning that the torque convertor provides very little slip in all by 4th. this means that all shifts except 3/4 are going to be abrupt at light throttle if the shift points and effective ratios are chosen for higher engine speeds, which they naturally would ina Ferrari. According to the book on Automobilia book about this car, it was an early attempt by Ferrari to parallel the sportiness of a manual shift in an automatic for the urban market. It turned out to be a failure because it was very costly and the evolution of microprocessors in the late 90s overtook the need, which Ferrari like others thought could be better executed with the F1 type of design. A design that Audi pioneered in the mid 80s and shelved for the same reason that most of these shifts have been hopeless for the true urban cowpokes.

    The box is a GM400 basic design with a unique TQC and bands making it tough to get serviced by a transmission shop but not impossible given time and someone up to the challenge. Unfortunatley there are few techs willing to invest unpaid time and few 456 type owners willing to pay for such time so the effective result is that any service requires returning the box to Modena for effective replacement. If the 456 was a "rare" car of say GTO ilk, I am sure there would be at least one expert who could do it and make a fortune out of everyone else's fears. But that time is a long way off because the box is fundamentally quite reliable as long as you avoid torque braked starts and replace/flush the fluid. The latter is also an unknown process amongst the dealers few of whom have seen the factory technical bulletin on how to do this.

    I would also add that you should never use engine braking with an automatic transmission and especially without a transmission oil temperature gauge. That action causes more wear on the bands than anyother and on a very low slip TQC like the 456 you are asking for trouble. A Lexus using the infinite control of its TQC by means of an almost dedicated ecu is going to be able to modify the rate of engagement to produce the smooth process that a well trained clutch and heel/toe action can produce although slower and less effective than an F1 transmission. And on high slip US type TQMs the effect can be positively invisible until long after the braking is needed. On this box its an absolute no-no. But if you have to do so to make like Schumi, then only between 4 and 3 where you get the benfit of using more of the TQC but even then no one that I know would recommend it.

    Another thing - the relatively simple (circa 1980s technology) of the gearbox does have a throttle rate sensor. So to get a change down, you need to press the loud pedal quickly. Its the speed of the push not the amount that matters to cause the box to shift down for an overtaking manoever. You can also use the shift of course but need to squeeze the button and run the risk of shifting 2 gears which is not great for the box either.

    Watch out for the leather shrinking on the dash and the rear panel from UV. extended parking outside whether or not its "hot" will cause the leather to withdraw as on many F - cars because so much natural tannin was used to cure the material. Something that contributed to the bankruptcy of Connolly via the warranty claims of its customers in the late 90s I believe. the Germans and especially the Japanese were the first to deal with this problem and I believe you could probably leave a modern Lexus in Death Valley for 10 years before you would see noticeable damage. But not so British and Italian cars designed before the late 90s.

    That's all I think I know and much more to find out.
     
  23. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,126
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall

    Exellent points.

    I would add that all dealers have the bulletin, reading it is another matter.

    Also the 456 has a very large dedicated trans cooler, well ducted and with 2 dedicated electrical fans. The system is effective enough that it can be difficult to get the trans to a high enough temp to properly check the fluid level.
     
  24. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
    7,645
    Northern California
    Full Name:
    Greg Calo
    Fabulous review of what I was trying to learn of this transmission for a possible impending 456 purchase.

    I had before stated that I had a 1980's 7 series BMW that when sold had 262,000 miles and never leaked or used a drop of fluids. The transmission concerned me as BMW said then it was not repairable but only replaceable at that time.

    So, every 30,000 miles I had the tranny and torque concerter fluid drained and changed and had the tranny filters changed as well.

    I believe that had a great deal to do with extending the safe life of that gearbox.

    If that can be done on the 456, I now feel more comfortable.

    Thanks for that great dissertation.
     
  25. Diablo456

    Diablo456 Karting

    Jul 27, 2006
    145
    Fabulous discussion, a must read for anyone with the GTA.

    Most important is the caution against engine-braking with this transmission. I usually *do* engine brake on the many hills were I live, so I'll now forgoe this and accept the wear/tear on the brake pads instead.

    You've probably extended the life of my GTA by a considerable amount with your lucid points. Why doesn't Ferrari mention this in the owner's manual or technical bulletins?

    Outstanding contribution, and THANK YOU.
     

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