Who is the most underrated driver of all time?

Who, in your opinion, is or was the most underrated driver of all time?

Try to find who Nigel Roebuck is talking about in this quote:

"I have long thought there is a strong case to be made for saying that XXXX is the most underrated racing driver of all time. He could drive anything, and consummately.
A modest, unassuming fellow, with a self-depreciating sense of humour, XXXX co-drove factory Porsches (including the daunting 917) with Jo Siffert, and was often the faster of the two. He raced, and often beat Mario Andretti in the American F5000.
Standing in for Peter Revson in the McLaren F1 team at Monaco in 1972, he finished 5th in the appalingly wet conditions - three laps ahead of the other regular team driver, Denny Hulme. I could go on.
XXXX's personality dictated that he and F1 were never going to be bedfellows. He loved racing for the sake of it, and had a profound distaste for bull****. After Revson's death, early in 1974, he was invited to take the American's place in the Shadow team, but after only a handful of races he gave them back their money, and said he prefered to race elsewhere: F1, he said, was too 'commercialised' - and this was 30 years ago!
I always thought XXXX was a fantastic racing driver, and I wasn't alone. One night at dinner, I asked Dennis Jenkinson who he would like to accompany on the Mille Miglia, were the epic still run (Jenks had been navigator to Stirling Moss in 1955). "XXXX" he said without hesitation. "He'd be as quick as Siffert - and he'd finish too...""

Who do you think is this mysterious driver, and what is YOUR most underrated racing driver of all time?

 

mysterious driver = Brian Redman

Carol

 

I do not know who this mystery driver would be.

For me the most under-rated driver from the past was Francois Cevert. Yet today, it could be Felipe Massa.

 

Bahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahhahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I guessed Brian Redman for the mystery person and I think perhaps you are correct Ron that right now most under-rated is Massa. We have friends from London who have been to two F1 test sessions where Felipe has driven and the comments have been very favorable.

It's a shame this positive thread has to all be spoiled by the bad attitude remarks once again - this person is definitely in contention for the FChat Troll of the Year Award.

Carol

 

Well actually, he has made this entertaining. I can not fault him for his extreme opinion, but that he wants us to believe he is the definitive source of information is laughable. None of us really know all the facts surrounding the events of the last few days, and I doubt if we ever will. I too, as do you, think Autosport is the best source of racing news anywhere, but even they do not have access to actual driver contratual information. They have been wrong, and have had to pull some articles for that reason (electronically).

As for Massa, I am still of the belief that Ferrari understands how much is at $take in the Constructor's Championship every year, that they would not rehire Massa because of his management, but because of his potential in helping achieve that championship. I stick by my opinion that Massa is the most underrated current driver.

I would also add Mika Salo to my list of the underrated drivers of the past.

 

His victory with the brand new Chevron B16 at the 'Ring should not go unmentioned.

 

Do multiple Le-Mans winners count? if so Derek Bell and of the current crop either Massa or Anthony Davidson

Let's face it it's sooooo much easier to have a negative thread titled who's the most overated driver........but this is much more of challenge

 

Most underrated driver? Me.

Actually, I think that Wurz is an underrated driver.

 

Well done! That wasn't too difficult, was it?

I beg to differ about Massa. Not that he is not a good driver, but I think it's way to early in his career to call him underrated. He is still on the way up, isn't he?
Also, without doubting that he is fast TESTING, there is a difference with actually RACING. So far, we seen him driving fast in tests, practices and races, but we haven't seen him challenging a serious opponent on the track, fighting for position with a determined competitor to see his mettle.

Other underrated racing drivers? Jacky Ickx, who was at the Scuderia when their F1 cars were not so good, but was fantastic in Sportscars and CanAm.
Or Ronnie Peterson with his terrific car control.
Or Pedro Rodriguez who came good with age and would race 'anything, anywhere, for nothing', one of the fastest and unluckiest in F1 and dominating sportscars in his era.

 

Peterson would have been a world champion. I kept thinking about that Sunday while watching Monza.

 

Cool!

Maybe I will be on stage as you collect the Sycophant of the Year Award.

 

Jackie Ickx was one of my racing heros growing up, he was definitely underrated as an F1 driver and superb as a sports car driver.

I don't know of Ronnie Petersen being underrated. A lot of folks back then expected him to eventually become WC. I think his talent has always been well known and highly regarded. If he is underrated now, it is because most people's memories are short.

 

I definately think that had Jacky Ickx had better cars at Ferrari he could have been WC. He was truly excellent in Sports Cars and he did win for Ferrari in F1.

I always thought that Ronnie Peterson was an excellent driver that did best when he had a teammate that knew how to set up the car. One reason he was so fast at Lotus was the fact that Mario did the majority of the testing. Colin Chapman used to pull his hair out when he would do changes to the Chassis and Ronnie would pull into the pits and notice no difference, basically he drove around it.

I also agree that Massa is not underatted, as lets give him time and see how he settles in. Actually I don't think any of the crop of F1 drivers is underatted, I know a few who are overrated.

 

+1

 

Still thinking about my list of underrated drivers. And I confirmed the Brian Redman thing through Formula1.com's archives.

 

I

Ickx was always appreciated for his skill by all concerned, so I would not put him in the underrated category. How many times did he win LeMans?

I don't remember Chapman having hair under that hat? Must have been after Peterson.

Massa is not underrated by Ferrari, but he is underrated by the general public. I agree that time will tell and that he will prove his worth.

There were a few drivers in the 70's that if they had better equipment could have been a championship contender. Like Reuteman. And a few whose career ended suddenly that might have been world champion. Like Cevert, even Regazzoni.

 

I remember reading years ago that Jim Clark commented about Dan Gurney as the most underrated GP driver he knew. Still, Gurney who raced for Ferrari, BRM, Porsche, Brabham and then launched Eagle, never won that many GPs and was never in contention for the title.

Jackie Stewart, a few years ago, said that the driver he thought was potentially the fastest of his era was Chris Amon. Stewart described him a very fast, but always in the wrong team! Amon turned down a drive with McLaren to go to Ferrari. Hulme became WC at McLaren that year! He left Ferrari just when it was picking up, to go to Matra, which was on the way out! He then drove various machinery, before building the Amon F1, which was a flop. He led some GPs, but never won one. Still Stewart thought he was the fastest! (probably the unluckiest too)

Cevert could have turned quite good too. He had a good mentor in Tyrell, who would probably have kept the ELF sponsorship as well.

 

I won't dare comment on drivers that I did not get to see race. My pick will be from '88 onwards.

My first inclination would be to pick Montoya. However, after some thought, I think most Montoya-haters bash him because of what they claim is whining. I have to imagine that they recognize his talent and speed.

So my choice is none other than Jacques Villeneuve. I think he is a lot better driver than people give him credit for. Yes, he made a terrible career choice by going to BAR, and many would say he is outspoken, but that has nothing to do with his driving talent.

 

Interesting choice.

Jimmy Clark once said of Dan Gurney that he was the driver Clark feared the most.

 

Hard to pick underrated drivers as its somewhat difficult to be in touch with how they were really perceived in their day.

Ickx and Gurney are easily in the catagory, and Amon as well. His success in the Tasman series's point to how good Amon really was. In F1, he never had the pieces fall together.

Still, all those guys were well known in their day and well respected. Ronnie Peterson was not called superswede because his talent was going unrecongnized.

I tend to think of guys like Stefan Bellof. Absolutely fearless and gifted with incredible, jaw dropping raw talent. At Monaco in '84 everyone remembers Sennas come back win in the rain where he supposedly ran away from everyone.... but few choose to note that had the race not been stopped Bellof was catching Senna rapidly and would have been all over him within another couple of laps.

But then again, the reason few remember Bellof is that he was killed before achieving great success. HE was killed because he was a madman.... passing around the outside at Eau Rouge at Spa in a Porsche 962 just isnt good for your long term health prospects. Derek Bell has talked about how fast Bellof was and how nobody else could get close to his lap times, but how Bellof was unable to temper his raw speed with clear judgement. This lacking of a key aspect to a top driver killed him... so was he underrated? It does take more after all than just incredible talent.

A similar story applies to Chris Bristow and others.

Here is a driver "I" would probably rate at the top of the underrated list:

Mark Donohue.

His talent and capabilities as a driver tend to get downplayed because he was also known as such an amazingly capable engineer. He also openly downplayed his own abilities claiming himself to be only a mediocre driver who was better at setting up and developing the cars. His famous "Unfair Advantage". But Mark was also known as an incredibly humble and nice guy. "Captain Nice" indeed, he did not blow his own horn.

But there is not getting around his race record. He beat LOTS of guys in LOTS of races who "should" have been better. Even when Marks cars were not perfect, he found ways to win. Whether it be in a Trans-Am Camaro, a F5000 car or a Porsche 917-30, Donohue was FAST and a winner.

Donohue was the driver that ALL F1 and top level drivers must be today. He set the model. People talk about Schumachers commitment to the team, his ability to test and develop the car and his capabilities in strategy and such. Well, Donohue INVENTED all that. While other drivers were out partying and living the dream racers life.... Mark was calculating new suspension geometry and dreaming up new ways to make the car faster.

Had he not died (needlessly..... horrid medical care), I feel sure he would have gone on to be a WC. He had the talent and his abilities to adapt and develop the car would have ultimately yielded success. He won in every type of car he ever had the chance to properly develop, I see no reason why F1 would have been different. At a time when most drivers relied primarily on talent with the team doing all that "other stuff", Donohue was reinventing what "other stuff" was. THAT is the mark of an absolute top level driver.

When I think about my own race car, prepping it, driving it and my approach to the whole thing.... its Donohue who is the best role model.



Terry

 

I think maybe Heidfeld is a bit underrated from the current drivers. We'll see how he does against Kubica but he seems pretty quick when he gets a good car. Massa? No way, he's being flattered by a great car. We'll see how he does against Kimi next year. From the past, I always liked Sandro Nannini and he seemed to be developing into a good driver when he had his accident. I though he was a bit underrated

 

If I remember right, when both Heidfeld and Raikkonen raced at Sauber, Kimi didn't blow Heidfeld away, and it was a surprise that Ron Dennis choose Kimi instead of Heidfeld.

Since, Kimi had relatively competitive cars to shine (albeit unreliable at time), while Heidfeld has been struggling with Williams at a low ebb, and now BMW still on the way up. Thyessen, who observed him at Williams, wanted him in his squad and speaks eloquently about him. So, yeah, he could be a dark horse.

 

Wimille

 

Massa? Please, that is hilarious. I don't know how anyone can be underrated when they are in the top car on the grid.

Both Webber and Heidfeld are underrated and arguably better than Massa.