Who uses DTI gauges on here and who has the ferrari factory ones? Do you use them for cambelt changes, cylinder head swaps or engine rebuilding? Just that i spoke to two dealers who say they dont use them. So who uses them, and if so on what model ferraris and why? If you do then why dont you just use the ferrari timing marks on the engin that the factory use to asemble the engine at the point of production. Just interested.
Yes we use DTI / Dial gauges to measure for TDC and other bits and peices, combine that with a degree wheel and your going to get your timing a little more accurate than the factorys marks (which seem to be a bit variable and not particularly accurate) Getting it all lined up right is a good way to get a little cheap horsepower boost
Hi Andy, so the factory misses the opotunity to dial in the engine becourse they use the marks on the engine to build up the engine? Why would the factory do this Bad workman ship maybe? What cars do you use them on, all cars? And what jobs....cambelts maybe?
The Factory has jigs to build the engine with.....and time of course is money, I've only got experience within GM's V6 engine plant up here in Ellesemere Port (helped in the design some of the computerised systems used) but they build the motors to a high standard merley due to the way their production process is designed & controlled and it's no doubt the same in Maranello in the outside world it's again down to time........I'm cheaper than a main dealer by a factor of over 50% so I can still be cheaper and do a quality job Your right in that we use this stuff not only for belt changes a quickie look in the archives will net lots of responses on this subject from guys with far more experience than me (I don't work on customers cars.......we've got qualified and experienced engineers to do that ) where big discrepancies in timing have been due to the factory marks and the inability to adjust timing wheels on cams to a decent degree (the 308 adjustable vernier thread is probably a good place to start)
The marks on the cam shaft (front cap area) were likely stamped when the cam went in the grinder for finishing the lobe profile (just my theory but I bet its close as the marks are all made prior to the Parkerizing process). The marks are lined up with the cap as a starting point for assembly prior to degreeing the cams. The assembly line techs stamped the rear cam / cap with a chissle once they degreed the cams. Assembly line building is just that. The window of "consumer acceptable" is often wide open. The up side is the engines are dynoed prior to install and the ones that fall outside the "acceptable" window get set aside and rechecked. Durning the 360 training at the factory I remember 3 or 4 engines on carts in the corner that were destined to return to the build dept for readjust. Cam timing adjustments were done quite quickly while we were watching. There is a reason why there are some cars that are "Rockets" and some that are "OK". A race engine builder will fight for hours to get 1 degree, that doesnt happen on an assembly line. Dave
Thanks for that Dave. Here is a picture of the timing marks. I have looked at quite a few of these on the 355s and they are in exactly the same place. In your expereance have you ever had a 355 or a 360 out of time than what the factory did? And have you ever had to adjust the timing? And if so by how much? Becourse i beleve that these timing marks are as a rule very much spot on. But i know that there can be slight mis alignments in engines, but what about the 355 and 360s? How spot on or not are they from the factory? Whats your opinion mate? Image Unavailable, Please Login
Those marks are for diagnostic (engine will not run) only. They answer if the belt had jumped a tooth or two. The marks I refered to are on the cam themselves. There are 4 cams to deal with. Are they all timed correctly? No, not that I have found yet. I have seen one or 2 on a given engine that are close but have yet to find all 4 that are matched and on spec. The amount they are off is not visable but can easily be measured. Dave
I have found 512TRs to be the worst that I have seen of all the models with the internal marks being way off after tha cams were dialed in. I think that I have pics somewhere. Lining the mark up in one of these produces a lot of hydrocarbons. Don't ask how I know. I was at the factory for 550 training in '96 and I remember a large apparatus they used for setting cam timing but I didn't understand how it worked. I do remember them doing a coolant sealing test on one of the motors and watching coolant pour out of the engine. Bad casting on one of the heads was the cause. Grabbed another head and slapped it on. Used same headgasket and didn't even wipe the coolant off of it. Made me wonder a bit.
